juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Where do you get the 102,000,000 figure from?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6134366/#Comment_6134366

@Sylvermynx says you're the original poster of that figure(I read it. You are.), which also has no source, just your say so in it. That doesn't make it true. Do you have another link of something more official than your say so? Even if that number were true, but we see nothing that proves it, ZOS can add plenty of gold sinks into the game to compensate, and maybe achievements for having said items in their collection as well.


Even if your figures are just speculation, let's look at the math of the counter thoughts. If they added 1 single new mount into the game for 120,000g, that would already be 120k x's the entire server population who can buy it. Now add the factor that I suggested multiple and various items. I was thinking dozens of items(at the very least) every 12 weeks. Let's just put a low ball number and say only 1000 players bought that one item, although the likely number will be much higher, since people will welcome gold versions of mounts into the game with open arms. It was already a topic in the forums many times. Anyway, that already equals 120,000,000, which is over your speculated, at best, number. Now, add the dozens of other items and the gold sink ends up being much higher than the trade guild gold sink. Not to mention there are many otther things ZOS can do to create gold sinks. You're welcome.

@juttaa77b16_ESO - I quoted someone else (don't actually know now) and that was the person who provided the figure. I was not the original provider of the numerical figure at all, which was why I asked where it came from.... And of course it's not "true" which was why I asked.

Sometimes the quoting thing here isn't really very good.... Not sure how this turned out to be me stating something is true that I actually was questioning.

The

Sylvermynx wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Where do you get the 102,000,000 figure from?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6134366/#Comment_6134366

@Sylvermynx says you're the original poster of that figure(I read it. You are.), which also has no source, just your say so in it. That doesn't make it true. Do you have another link of something more official than your say so? Even if that number were true, but we see nothing that proves it, ZOS can add plenty of gold sinks into the game to compensate, and maybe achievements for having said items in their collection as well.


Even if your figures are just speculation, let's look at the math of the counter thoughts. If they added 1 single new mount into the game for 120,000g, that would already be 120k x's the entire server population who can buy it. Now add the factor that I suggested multiple and various items. I was thinking dozens of items(at the very least) every 12 weeks. Let's just put a low ball number and say only 1000 players bought that one item, although the likely number will be much higher, since people will welcome gold versions of mounts into the game with open arms. It was already a topic in the forums many times. Anyway, that already equals 120,000,000, which is over your speculated, at best, number. Now, add the dozens of other items and the gold sink ends up being much higher than the trade guild gold sink. Not to mention there are many otther things ZOS can do to create gold sinks. You're welcome.

@juttaa77b16_ESO - I quoted someone else (don't actually know now) and that was the person who provided the figure. I was not the original provider of the numerical figure at all, which was why I asked where it came from.... And of course it's not "true" which was why I asked.

Sometimes the quoting thing here isn't really very good.... Not sure how this turned out to be me stating something is true that I actually was questioning.

Yes. I'm aware you and jayman quoted @majulook in separate commensts. That's is what I was telling the person himself. I'm not sure, why the system didn't send it to him, but that has been happening a bit as of late.

Sylvermynx wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Where do you get the 102,000,000 figure from?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6134366/#Comment_6134366

@Sylvermynx says you're the original poster of that figure(I read it. You are.), which also has no source, just your say so in it. That doesn't make it true. Do you have another link of something more official than your say so? Even if that number were true, but we see nothing that proves it, ZOS can add plenty of gold sinks into the game to compensate, and maybe achievements for having said items in their collection as well.


Even if your figures are just speculation, let's look at the math of the counter thoughts. If they added 1 single new mount into the game for 120,000g, that would already be 120k x's the entire server population who can buy it. Now add the factor that I suggested multiple and various items. I was thinking dozens of items(at the very least) every 12 weeks. Let's just put a low ball number and say only 1000 players bought that one item, although the likely number will be much higher, since people will welcome gold versions of mounts into the game with open arms. It was already a topic in the forums many times. Anyway, that already equals 120,000,000, which is over your speculated, at best, number. Now, add the dozens of other items and the gold sink ends up being much higher than the trade guild gold sink. Not to mention there are many otther things ZOS can do to create gold sinks. You're welcome.

@juttaa77b16_ESO - I quoted someone else (don't actually know now) and that was the person who provided the figure. I was not the original provider of the numerical figure at all, which was why I asked where it came from.... And of course it's not "true" which was why I asked.

Sometimes the quoting thing here isn't really very good.... Not sure how this turned out to be me stating something is true that I actually was questioning.

I was quoting Majulook there with the original comment. Your forth and back comments with him were included as reference, since you also asked where the number came from, at least as far as I read it, unless I misread it of course. I just thought he might want the chance to post an official source of where he got the gold sink numbers from, but he never did. The entire gold sink thing might have some solutions anyway. I was just curious where he got that information from.

@juttaa77b16_ESO @Sylvermynx

To answer were I got my numbers from, I googled the terms like:

eso guild trader prices 2018
eso guild trader bids
eso guild trader bidding
eso guild trader bid prices
eso guild trader bid price

Then I read through lots of posts going back a few years on, ESO Forums, Reddit, Steam, and Web and Discord sites of various trade guilds. I even ask a few current and ex Guild GM's and Officers. You can research this your self it just takes a few hours.

The hardest part was getting what I considered as real information, as bids are secret and no guild history actually shows bid numbers the GM and officers are wary of spies as a guild can ruined (players leaving) if it looses it bid for a few weeks. I actually dropped the gold amounts in my post from what I honestly believe are the actual amounts since the numbers were so astronomically high I figured no one would believe them. (bids are consistently so high larger popular cities that it seams just silly).

The point is that this is a VERY LARGE gold sink that happens every week, which would need a serious thought as to how to duplicate if it was to go away. Maybe one or two super high price things in the crown store for gold may work for a while, but some developer has to code and skin that into the game extra cost for ZOS. The Guild trader bid is every week rain or shine and does not cost ZOS anything. Also very few players can even come up with one or two ideas that might be close to the current Guild Trader bidding systems gold sink. I seriously cannot see sales taxes covering this amount as it is bat guano crazy high.

This Guild trader system places the burden of the gold sink on the members of the trade guild by having them fund the gold that the guild bids by buying and selling items at the trader, raffles, auctions, dues, and such.

So my question remains. How would you remove over 100,000,000 from the games economy each week?
Now do so for a much, much higher amount.

majulook wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Where do you get the 102,000,000 figure from?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6134366/#Comment_6134366

@Sylvermynx says you're the original poster of that figure(I read it. You are.), which also has no source, just your say so in it. That doesn't make it true. Do you have another link of something more official than your say so? Even if that number were true, but we see nothing that proves it, ZOS can add plenty of gold sinks into the game to compensate, and maybe achievements for having said items in their collection as well.


Even if your figures are just speculation, let's look at the math of the counter thoughts. If they added 1 single new mount into the game for 120,000g, that would already be 120k x's the entire server population who can buy it. Now add the factor that I suggested multiple and various items. I was thinking dozens of items(at the very least) every 12 weeks. Let's just put a low ball number and say only 1000 players bought that one item, although the likely number will be much higher, since people will welcome gold versions of mounts into the game with open arms. It was already a topic in the forums many times. Anyway, that already equals 120,000,000, which is over your speculated, at best, number. Now, add the dozens of other items and the gold sink ends up being much higher than the trade guild gold sink. Not to mention there are many otther things ZOS can do to create gold sinks. You're welcome.

@juttaa77b16_ESO - I quoted someone else (don't actually know now) and that was the person who provided the figure. I was not the original provider of the numerical figure at all, which was why I asked where it came from.... And of course it's not "true" which was why I asked.

Sometimes the quoting thing here isn't really very good.... Not sure how this turned out to be me stating something is true that I actually was questioning.

The

Sylvermynx wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Where do you get the 102,000,000 figure from?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6134366/#Comment_6134366

@Sylvermynx says you're the original poster of that figure(I read it. You are.), which also has no source, just your say so in it. That doesn't make it true. Do you have another link of something more official than your say so? Even if that number were true, but we see nothing that proves it, ZOS can add plenty of gold sinks into the game to compensate, and maybe achievements for having said items in their collection as well.


Even if your figures are just speculation, let's look at the math of the counter thoughts. If they added 1 single new mount into the game for 120,000g, that would already be 120k x's the entire server population who can buy it. Now add the factor that I suggested multiple and various items. I was thinking dozens of items(at the very least) every 12 weeks. Let's just put a low ball number and say only 1000 players bought that one item, although the likely number will be much higher, since people will welcome gold versions of mounts into the game with open arms. It was already a topic in the forums many times. Anyway, that already equals 120,000,000, which is over your speculated, at best, number. Now, add the dozens of other items and the gold sink ends up being much higher than the trade guild gold sink. Not to mention there are many otther things ZOS can do to create gold sinks. You're welcome.

@juttaa77b16_ESO - I quoted someone else (don't actually know now) and that was the person who provided the figure. I was not the original provider of the numerical figure at all, which was why I asked where it came from.... And of course it's not "true" which was why I asked.

Sometimes the quoting thing here isn't really very good.... Not sure how this turned out to be me stating something is true that I actually was questioning.

Yes. I'm aware you and jayman quoted @majulook in separate commensts. That's is what I was telling the person himself. I'm not sure, why the system didn't send it to him, but that has been happening a bit as of late.

Sylvermynx wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Where do you get the 102,000,000 figure from?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6134366/#Comment_6134366

@Sylvermynx says you're the original poster of that figure(I read it. You are.), which also has no source, just your say so in it. That doesn't make it true. Do you have another link of something more official than your say so? Even if that number were true, but we see nothing that proves it, ZOS can add plenty of gold sinks into the game to compensate, and maybe achievements for having said items in their collection as well.


Even if your figures are just speculation, let's look at the math of the counter thoughts. If they added 1 single new mount into the game for 120,000g, that would already be 120k x's the entire server population who can buy it. Now add the factor that I suggested multiple and various items. I was thinking dozens of items(at the very least) every 12 weeks. Let's just put a low ball number and say only 1000 players bought that one item, although the likely number will be much higher, since people will welcome gold versions of mounts into the game with open arms. It was already a topic in the forums many times. Anyway, that already equals 120,000,000, which is over your speculated, at best, number. Now, add the dozens of other items and the gold sink ends up being much higher than the trade guild gold sink. Not to mention there are many otther things ZOS can do to create gold sinks. You're welcome.

@juttaa77b16_ESO - I quoted someone else (don't actually know now) and that was the person who provided the figure. I was not the original provider of the numerical figure at all, which was why I asked where it came from.... And of course it's not "true" which was why I asked.

Sometimes the quoting thing here isn't really very good.... Not sure how this turned out to be me stating something is true that I actually was questioning.

I was quoting Majulook there with the original comment. Your forth and back comments with him were included as reference, since you also asked where the number came from, at least as far as I read it, unless I misread it of course. I just thought he might want the chance to post an official source of where he got the gold sink numbers from, but he never did. The entire gold sink thing might have some solutions anyway. I was just curious where he got that information from.

@juttaa77b16_ESO @Sylvermynx

To answer were I got my numbers from, I googled the terms like:

eso guild trader prices 2018
eso guild trader bids
eso guild trader bidding
eso guild trader bid prices
eso guild trader bid price

Then I read through lots of posts going back a few years on, ESO Forums, Reddit, Steam, and Web and Discord sites of various trade guilds. I even ask a few current and ex Guild GM's and Officers. You can research this your self it just takes a few hours.

The hardest part was getting what I considered as real information, as bids are secret and no guild history actually shows bid numbers the GM and officers are wary of spies as a guild can ruined (players leaving) if it looses it bid for a few weeks. I actually dropped the gold amounts in my post from what I honestly believe are the actual amounts since the numbers were so astronomically high I figured no one would believe them. (bids are consistently so high larger popular cities that it seams just silly).

The point is that this is a VERY LARGE gold sink that happens every week, which would need a serious thought as to how to duplicate if it was to go away. Maybe one or two super high price things in the crown store for gold may work for a while, but some developer has to code and skin that into the game extra cost for ZOS. The Guild trader bid is every week rain or shine and does not cost ZOS anything. Also very few players can even come up with one or two ideas that might be close to the current Guild Trader bidding systems gold sink. I seriously cannot see sales taxes covering this amount as it is bat guano crazy high.

This Guild trader system places the burden of the gold sink on the members of the trade guild by having them fund the gold that the guild bids by buying and selling items at the trader, raffles, auctions, dues, and such.

So my question remains. How would you remove over 100,000,000 from the games economy each week?
Now do so for a much, much higher amount.

I'm not the only person who googled around for this number. There isn't any official number on any of those sites, jetzt speculations. So unless you have something more official you can link, it's still just guesses. Regardless, of that point, gold sink is a no big issue to begin with. Something like that is easily solvable. Overhauling the current system and then hooking all traders up to an central system, or ZOS putting their own brand of AH in that safeguards against manipulation, adding more gold sinks. I don't actually care which system prevails as long as it is better, and more convenient.

idk wrote: »

The thing with threads on this subject is they will fall on deaf ears. The guild trader design is a design ESO chose and likes. It has shown to work which Zos can see clearly. The logical course of action would be to suggest change within the system since suggesting the idea in the OP is just a waste of effort.

It's also an interesting discussion in and of itself, and that is never a waste (imo).

Disturbed_One wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

Global AH seems like a bad idea.

The economy in the game has been stable for years, and going to a single place to buy and sell would allow the ultra wealthy in the game to corner the market significantly easier, especially for necessary items.

Yeah, it sometimes sucks travelling from town to town to try and find that one thing you need, but I'll gladly take this over a system that can be easily monopolized.

I apologize if this has been said... I didn't read all 14 pages

Sorry the ecomeny on console at least is not stable lol. If it was stable then all items would be equal value as long as they are the same.

But that is not the case, I can go to glenumbra and buy a plague doctor lightning staff for 5-10k then go to grahtwood and it is 70-100k

So that is by far not equal and that is just one example showing it is unstable. There are hundreds of items like this and it allows people to have a trader in the higher spot and buy from all the lower people and net huge profits. If it is more stable you could find one undercut and make maybe 5k profit rather than a 7 times plus profit on your investment

I guess I fail to understand. isn't that similar to how the real world works? Different stores have different prices?

Sure, Walmart may have the cheapest milk in town, and the another grocery store has beef on sale. Sometimes it's worth it to go to both, sometimes it's not worth the hassle. I guess it's up to the individual and how much they could save.

Wouldn't a global AH, just allow one person to buy up everything cheap and just overprice it. Isn't that what Walmart does once it's driven out the local competition?

Nope you are wrong. You can shop at any store and they are all within a dollar of each other, but you know the price difference. Now if you go shop at the corner store milk will cost you 3 dollars more say. But again you know that milk is normally 3 dollars so buying it for 6 is a rip-off. You know you need it so you buy it anyways. But at least you know the general price of the item meaning there is a stable market. Milk unless it is on sale will cost the same at Shaw's, at Walmart, at Target, ect minus a few cents difference usually.

That is not what we have in ESO. No one will ever agree of an item price because it's price is different all around this making it unstable because unless you use the add-ons that PC has no one will know what it should go for.

And please stop with the whole "one person will buy all the gold mat items thing". They are widely available and easily get replenished through gathering and crafting writs. Items will never skyrocket either because of transmute crystals being a thing as well.

These have been stated numerous times in this thread and you want to keep saying it will happen when in reality it won't as no one tries to do it now.

ZOS should leave the current guild trader system as it is, and ZOS should continue doing what they are now doing on PC, disabling the ability for addons to read guild history from the server, which breaks Master Merchant. They should also look at blocking the TTC addon.

In other words, level the ESO playing field for all players on all platforms.

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

Global AH seems like a bad idea.

The economy in the game has been stable for years, and going to a single place to buy and sell would allow the ultra wealthy in the game to corner the market significantly easier, especially for necessary items.

Yeah, it sometimes sucks travelling from town to town to try and find that one thing you need, but I'll gladly take this over a system that can be easily monopolized.

I apologize if this has been said... I didn't read all 14 pages

Sorry the ecomeny on console at least is not stable lol. If it was stable then all items would be equal value as long as they are the same.

But that is not the case, I can go to glenumbra and buy a plague doctor lightning staff for 5-10k then go to grahtwood and it is 70-100k

So that is by far not equal and that is just one example showing it is unstable. There are hundreds of items like this and it allows people to have a trader in the higher spot and buy from all the lower people and net huge profits. If it is more stable you could find one undercut and make maybe 5k profit rather than a 7 times plus profit on your investment

I guess I fail to understand. isn't that similar to how the real world works? Different stores have different prices?

Sure, Walmart may have the cheapest milk in town, and the another grocery store has beef on sale. Sometimes it's worth it to go to both, sometimes it's not worth the hassle. I guess it's up to the individual and how much they could save.

Wouldn't a global AH, just allow one person to buy up everything cheap and just overprice it. Isn't that what Walmart does once it's driven out the local competition?

Nope you are wrong. You can shop at any store and they are all within a dollar of each other, but you know the price difference. Now if you go shop at the corner store milk will cost you 3 dollars more say. But again you know that milk is normally 3 dollars so buying it for 6 is a rip-off. You know you need it so you buy it anyways. But at least you know the general price of the item meaning there is a stable market. Milk unless it is on sale will cost the same at Shaw's, at Walmart, at Target, ect minus a few cents difference usually.

That is not what we have in ESO. No one will ever agree of an item price because it's price is different all around this making it unstable because unless you use the add-ons that PC has no one will know what it should go for.

And please stop with the whole "one person will buy all the gold mat items thing". They are widely available and easily get replenished through gathering and crafting writs. Items will never skyrocket either because of transmute crystals being a thing as well.

These have been stated numerous times in this thread and you want to keep saying it will happen when in reality it won't as no one tries to do it now.

The only reason you know the price of milk is normally ~1 dollar is because you buy it so often: you simply have a lot of experience buying milk. it's exactly the same in ESO, if you buy items often and check out different stores you'll experience the exact same as you do with the milk in real life.

Lets go with the milk example. A reason the milk prices are so stable is because it is considered a basic necessity and a a high volume item. Everyone needs it. Stores don't usually earn a lot of profit on milk, but it serves as an attraction for customers, people need milk so you place the milk in the back of the store, and you make sure to make it low priced so people do want to go there to get the milk. On the way there they impulse buy all the expensive non-essential ***, right, you know the basics of this im sure. The only reason the small stores can charge extra for it is due to convenience, hence the label "convenience store". You are paying a premium for convenience, and you'll gladly do it so you dont have to wait until the super-duper-mart opens, or so you dont have to treck all the way to it even when it is open. Similar convenience purchases happens in ESO too, im sure you are aware of that.

There's a difference between stores in real life and in ESO though: In ESO each seller in the store is their own individual player, guild members don't act in unison, unlike a store in real life where all the goods on the shelves have the same price because the store owner has complete control of all the goods in the store. So in ESO there is more competition because the guild owners do not control price of the goods in their store.

In real life you can also find specialty lower volume items that can be very differently priced from store to store, just like in ESO. The high volume items are the once that usually have the most stable cheapest prices while the lower volume items, the more special ones, can fluctuate greatly.