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The Nerevarine vs Rewritten History

Indoril_Nerevar
Indoril_Nerevar
✭✭✭
There are a great deal of theories, answers, mysterious and indirect points of view regarding the accounts and events of The Nerevarine.

If you are aware of this popular character, you may understand the great mystery in it and how it could be so very intriguing.

My question for you is simple yet, entirely complex:



What do YOU know of The Nerevarine ?






Edited by Indoril_Nerevar on April 21, 2019 12:24PM
"Never wound. . .

What you can not kill.
"

- Lord Indoril Nerevar
  • Indoril_Nerevar
    Indoril_Nerevar
    ✭✭✭
    1.) Azura's Champion
    2.) The Chimeri King
    3.) Warlord

    4.) Betrayed and Murdered by The Tribunal during the end of The Battle at Red Mountain for the possession of Lorkhan's Heart.

    5.) Established peace between The Dwarven Culture and The Great Houses. Later leading The Great Houses into War with them, and killing Dumac, friend and The Dwarven King due to ambitions, manipulations and discoveries made by Kagrenac, The Dwarven Inventor and Scientist.
    Edited by Indoril_Nerevar on April 21, 2019 12:35PM
    "Never wound. . .

    What you can not kill.
    "

    - Lord Indoril Nerevar
  • Bruccius
    Bruccius
    ✭✭✭✭
    He's lord Indoril Nerevar reincarnated.
  • Indoril_Nerevar
    Indoril_Nerevar
    ✭✭✭
    Lol . . ^
    "Never wound. . .

    What you can not kill.
    "

    - Lord Indoril Nerevar
  • RaddlemanNumber7
    RaddlemanNumber7
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    A peripheral character in the great tragedy of the living god Vivec. One of several karmic adversaries which Vivec fails to own. An early victim of Vivec who is eventually reincarnated as the doom-driven instrument of Vivec's destruction. Following the fall of the Tribunal, job done, he disappears into total obscurity.

    I like to think of him as "Never-are" reincarnated as "The Never-been", on account of him never achieving apotheosis.

    PC EU
  • Swagonian
    Swagonian
    Soul Shriven
    He's pretty epic, I'll tell you that...
    What's good N'wah
  • Indoril_Nerevar
    Indoril_Nerevar
    ✭✭✭
    @RaddlemanNumber7

    Yes. Precisely!

    That is because he was not reincarnated, and only a Hero was pushed down a path - hence "Never-Been" or "Never-Are" reincarnated - instead guided by Azura, and protected by his own skill, a mere prisoner was influenced by a vision implemented to his mind over night on a woodwrought boat, years later in his/her life - of any race...

    As Sotha Sil says quite lightly;

    ".. a result of action, and consequence. Nothing more, nothing less."

    Thus, leads to a retirement; the 'obscure' absence after their deeds on Red Mountain and Mournhold in TES:3.
    Although used to The Tribunal's advantage, as well as Azura's and The Blades' - the hero fulfilled 'revenge' and nothing more.

    And finally, The Nerevarine in TES:3 should not have needed Wraithguard to yeild Kagrenac's tools.




    Does anyone know anything regarding:

    His Mother?
    His Father?
    His Goals?
    Information on House Indoril ?
    His Betrayal?
    His Burial, Grave ????
    Edited by Indoril_Nerevar on April 24, 2019 10:59AM
    "Never wound. . .

    What you can not kill.
    "

    - Lord Indoril Nerevar
  • Bruccius
    Bruccius
    ✭✭✭✭
    A peripheral character in the great tragedy of the living god Vivec. One of several karmic adversaries which Vivec fails to own. An early victim of Vivec who is eventually reincarnated as the doom-driven instrument of Vivec's destruction. Following the fall of the Tribunal, job done, he disappears into total obscurity.

    I like to think of him as "Never-are" reincarnated as "The Never-been", on account of him never achieving apotheosis.

    Pretty sure it was said he went to Akavir.
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have a very particular idea of what my Nerevarine was like.

    And her response to Dagoth Ur under Red Mountain was "You keep calling me Nerevar. I dont particularly feel like Nerevar, but it doesn't matter because what you want for Morrowind is wrong, and I'm going to stop it."
  • Vigawatt
    Vigawatt
    ✭✭✭
    I know that I'm the Nerevarine. I'm the Nerevarine in every TES game I play. That was real something being Nerevarine and Dragonborn at once, couldn't believe my luck.
  • baltic1284
    baltic1284
    ✭✭✭
    He went to akavir
    Following the fulfillment of the prophecies, the Nerevarine vanished. In 3E 433, there are rumors that the Nerevarine has left on an expedition to Akavir, and has not been heard from since their departure.

    From the actual lore source
  • Indoril_Nerevar
    Indoril_Nerevar
    ✭✭✭
    Yes, perhaps the travelling hero led to believe he was The Nerevarine, went to Akavir.

    I could certainly understand why.


    baltic1284 wrote: »
    He went to akavir
    Following the fulfillment of the prophecies, the Nerevarine vanished. In 3E 433, there are rumors that the Nerevarine has left on an expedition to Akavir, and has not been heard from since their departure.

    From the actual lore source

    Edited by Indoril_Nerevar on April 24, 2019 11:07AM
    "Never wound. . .

    What you can not kill.
    "

    - Lord Indoril Nerevar
  • Indoril_Nerevar
    Indoril_Nerevar
    ✭✭✭
    Vigawatt wrote: »
    I know that I'm the Nerevarine. I'm the Nerevarine in every TES game I play. That was real something being Nerevarine and Dragonborn at once, couldn't believe my luck.

    It's not luck, dude.

    In TES:3 you're led to believe you are The Nerevarine. You sit down and play a game on a chair or whatever, and play the plot it gave ya.

    In Skyrim you are taught the way of the voice and believed to be the Dragonborn and so we play that role in our little chair, as the game intended.

    Whatever we make out of a game on our own claims and circumstances isn't luck.



    Does anyone know any information on his burial/grave or more on his past?

    Has anyone attempted to 'excavate' or make expeditions thru ruins in the games? Have you ever come to any mysterious findings within The Old Ruins spread across the lands, of The Long Lost Dwarven cultures?
    Edited by Indoril_Nerevar on April 24, 2019 11:11AM
    "Never wound. . .

    What you can not kill.
    "

    - Lord Indoril Nerevar
  • RealWhiteGuar
    RealWhiteGuar
    ✭✭
    He went to akavir
    Following the fulfillment of the prophecies, the Nerevarine vanished. In 3E 433, there are rumors that the Nerevarine has left on an expedition to Akavir, and has not been heard from since their departure.

    From the actual lore source

    I should stress that it is rumored that he went to Akavir. Whether the Nerevarine actually went to Akavir is the decision of each individual player, as Prisoner actions post-game are left vague for this very reason.
    @RealWhiteGuar | The_White_Guar
    Editor-in-chief
    The Tel Mora Independent Press

    Moderator: r/teslore
    Admin: The Dreamsleeve
  • KhajiitFelix
    KhajiitFelix
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    He is black
    I lick sneks.
  • Bruccius
    Bruccius
    ✭✭✭✭
    He went to akavir
    Following the fulfillment of the prophecies, the Nerevarine vanished. In 3E 433, there are rumors that the Nerevarine has left on an expedition to Akavir, and has not been heard from since their departure.

    From the actual lore source

    I should stress that it is rumored that he went to Akavir. Whether the Nerevarine actually went to Akavir is the decision of each individual player, as Prisoner actions post-game are left vague for this very reason.

    ''Whether the mysterious figure who arrived in Morrowind was truly Nerevar reborn cannot be known, but the repercussions of that arrival on the shores of Vvardenfell may not yet be fully realized. Dagoth Ur and two members of the Tribunal, Almalexia and Sotha Sil, were destroyed in the Nerevarine's fury. Vivec too may have been killed, but his fate is currently undetermined. The Nerevarine likewise has vanished.''
    ~Pocket Guide to the Empire (3E) Morrowind

    Whatever the case, the Nerevarine isn't on Tamriel anymore, and him going to Akavir makes more sense than anything, just because that's what we've heard.
  • DBZVelena
    DBZVelena
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    1.) Azura's Champion
    2.) The Chimeri King
    3.) Warlord

    4.) Betrayed and Murdered by The Tribunal during the end of The Battle at Red Mountain for the possession of Lorkhan's Heart.

    5.) Established peace between The Dwarven Culture and The Great Houses. Later leading The Great Houses into War with them, and killing Dumac, friend and The Dwarven King due to ambitions, manipulations and discoveries made by Kagrenac, The Dwarven Inventor and Scientist.

    I always thought of it as:

    Nerevar at the end of the battle at red mountain tried to grab the heart of Lorkhan by them self, but the power of it burned them up. The 3 companions (Later tribunal) saw this and knew they could not leave it. So instead they took hold together, spreading the power between them. Afterwards being so powerful you might as well call them gods. They then proceed to use that power in whichever way they see fit. But never explain what happened to Nerevar, for it might taint the memory of their friend. And this is ultimately why they get accused of betrayal. Only good words for the dead after all and they already worshipped Nerevar in life, think how bad it was afterwards.
    What are Natch Potes? Can you eat those?
    I believe in Genie-Gina.
  • RealWhiteGuar
    RealWhiteGuar
    ✭✭
    Whether the mysterious figure who arrived in Morrowind was truly Nerevar reborn cannot be known

    Not sure how this equates to the Nerevarine definitely not being on Tamriel, anymore. If it isn't the Nerevarine (which, again, is up to each player), then there's no reason for him to not be on Tamriel. Rumors are rumors and are in no way necessarily reflective of truth.
    @RealWhiteGuar | The_White_Guar
    Editor-in-chief
    The Tel Mora Independent Press

    Moderator: r/teslore
    Admin: The Dreamsleeve
  • Bruccius
    Bruccius
    ✭✭✭✭
    He went to akavir
    Following the fulfillment of the prophecies, the Nerevarine vanished. In 3E 433, there are rumors that the Nerevarine has left on an expedition to Akavir, and has not been heard from since their departure.

    From the actual lore source

    I should stress that it is rumored that he went to Akavir. Whether the Nerevarine actually went to Akavir is the decision of each individual player, as Prisoner actions post-game are left vague for this very reason.

    ''Whether the mysterious figure who arrived in Morrowind was truly Nerevar reborn cannot be known, but the repercussions of that arrival on the shores of Vvardenfell may not yet be fully realized. Dagoth Ur and two members of the Tribunal, Almalexia and Sotha Sil, were destroyed in the Nerevarine's fury. Vivec too may have been killed, but his fate is currently undetermined. The Nerevarine likewise has vanished.''
    ~Pocket Guide to the Empire (3E) Morrowind

    Whatever the case, the Nerevarine isn't on Tamriel anymore, and him going to Akavir makes more sense than anything, just because that's what we've heard.
    Whether the mysterious figure who arrived in Morrowind was truly Nerevar reborn cannot be known

    Not sure how this equates to the Nerevarine definitely not being on Tamriel, anymore. If it isn't the Nerevarine (which, again, is up to each player), then there's no reason for him to not be on Tamriel. Rumors are rumors and are in no way necessarily reflective of truth.

    That is irrelevant, what is relevant is:

    ''Vivec too may have been killed, but his fate is currently undetermined. The Nerevarine likewise has vanished.''

    The Nerevarine, the proclaimed one, aka, the protagonist of TES III, has vanished. It's canon that the Nerevarine - the player character - has vanished. If you don't want your player character to be the Nerevarine, sure, go ahead, but that doesn't work in the scope of the lore. Main quests are canon by default.
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    He went to akavir
    Following the fulfillment of the prophecies, the Nerevarine vanished. In 3E 433, there are rumors that the Nerevarine has left on an expedition to Akavir, and has not been heard from since their departure.

    From the actual lore source

    I should stress that it is rumored that he went to Akavir. Whether the Nerevarine actually went to Akavir is the decision of each individual player, as Prisoner actions post-game are left vague for this very reason.

    I believe he was sent to Akavir because they did not want another demigod-like being roaming around on Tamriel mucking up with future storylines. They intentionally killed off these beings for a good reason. The Nerevarine moving to Akavir makes a lot of sense for many reasons and I like to think they're saving him for the future as a means to swoop in and either solve a major problem in the storyline or as some terrible destroyer. They could also just leave him in obscurity on some faraway continent with his immortality and vast magical knowledge.
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • RealWhiteGuar
    RealWhiteGuar
    ✭✭
    The Nerevarine, the proclaimed one, aka, the protagonist of TES III, has vanished. It's canon that the Nerevarine - the player character - has vanished. If you don't want your player character to be the Nerevarine, sure, go ahead, but that doesn't work in the scope of the lore. Main quests are canon by default.

    "Vanishing" isn't the same as "went somewhere else." It just means we don't know where he is, and there are ample places to hide in Tamriel. Player characters always "vanish" from the public eye, as in they fade into obscurity, as their story is over.

    The Nerevarine is also present in Landfall: Day One, where he pilots Akulakhan to battle Numidium. Whether you accept it or not, the point is that not everyone's player character follows the same path, so to suggest that there's a certain thing that the player character does past certain key points in the story (Dagoth Ur is defeated, Almalexia is killed, Bloodmoon Prophecies fulfilled) is a bit narrow in scope. The Nerevarine vanishes, yes, but whether that means actually leaving Tamriel or not is up to each person individually. All we have are in-universe speculation and rumor, and no one in-universe knows any more about these things than we do - that's how the Unreliable Narrator works.
    Edited by RealWhiteGuar on May 23, 2019 9:43PM
    @RealWhiteGuar | The_White_Guar
    Editor-in-chief
    The Tel Mora Independent Press

    Moderator: r/teslore
    Admin: The Dreamsleeve
  • Bruccius
    Bruccius
    ✭✭✭✭
    The Nerevarine, the proclaimed one, aka, the protagonist of TES III, has vanished. It's canon that the Nerevarine - the player character - has vanished. If you don't want your player character to be the Nerevarine, sure, go ahead, but that doesn't work in the scope of the lore. Main quests are canon by default.

    "Vanishing" isn't the same as "went somewhere else." It just means we don't know where he is, and there are ample places to hide in Tamriel. Player characters always "vanish" from the public eye, as in they fade into obscurity, as their story is over.

    The Nerevarine is also present in Landfall: Day One, where he pilots Akulakhan to battle Numidium. Whether you accept it or not, the point is that not everyone's player character follows the same path, so to suggest that there's a certain thing that the player character does past certain key points in the story (Dagoth Ur is defeated, Almalexia is killed, Bloodmoon Prophecies fulfilled) is a bit narrow in scope. The Nerevarine vanishes, yes, but whether that means actually leaving Tamriel or not is up to each person individually. All we have are in-universe speculation and rumor, and no one in-universe knows any more about these things than we do - that's how the Unreliable Narrator works.

    You don't just ''poof'' end up in air. There's a reason why people say he went to Akavir, what, you think that's based on thin air? I suppose that the HoK didn't become Sheogorath either, after all, that's just what happens at the end of TES IV, but who on earth cares about that, right?

    Landfall is not part of the lore, so it's irrelevant.
  • RealWhiteGuar
    RealWhiteGuar
    ✭✭
    You don't just ''poof'' end up in air. There's a reason why people say he went to Akavir, what, you think that's based on thin air?
    Rumors and misunderstandings can start for basically any old reason. Not every rumor need necessarily be based in fact. Ever heard of a fish tale, or the game of Telephone? Same principle. People get stuff wrong - unless they know the Nerevarine personally, there's no reason to assume their information about the Nerevarine is correct. It works just like it does in real life; you wouldn't ask me about the intricate details of Genghis Khan's life and expect every word to be accurate. I could just be making stuff up. What makes the characters in the game any different?

    I suppose that the HoK didn't become Sheogorath either, after all, that's just what happens at the end of TES IV, but who on earth cares about that, right?
    He didn't, actually. The Loremaster's Archive with Haskill suggests this, as does Truth in Sequence. Instead it's more likely that HoK kept the throne warm for a minute while Sheo/Jyggalag went out to go organize LEGOs or something, then was absorbed by Sheo upon Sheo's return. The "end" of the Greymarch is just another part of the Greymarch, otherwise Haskill wouldn't be a thing.

    But of course, this is in support of the idea that every player character's actions are the choice of the individual.

    Landfall is not part of the lore, so it's irrelevant.
    Just because it isn't official doesn't mean it isn't lore. You may not accept it, but others certainly do. Canon is a construct and all ideas are valid.
    Edited by RealWhiteGuar on May 24, 2019 7:21PM
    @RealWhiteGuar | The_White_Guar
    Editor-in-chief
    The Tel Mora Independent Press

    Moderator: r/teslore
    Admin: The Dreamsleeve
  • Bruccius
    Bruccius
    ✭✭✭✭
    You don't just ''poof'' end up in air. There's a reason why people say he went to Akavir, what, you think that's based on thin air?
    Rumors and misunderstandings can start for basically any old reason. Not every rumor need necessarily be based in fact. Ever heard of a fish tale, or the game of Telephone? Same principle. People get stuff wrong - unless they know the Nerevarine personally, there's no reason to assume their information about the Nerevarine is correct. It works just like it does in real life; you wouldn't ask me about the intricate details of Genghis Khan's life and expect every word to be accurate. I could just be making stuff up. What makes the characters in the game any different?

    I suppose that the HoK didn't become Sheogorath either, after all, that's just what happens at the end of TES IV, but who on earth cares about that, right?
    He didn't, actually. The Loremaster's Archive with Haskill suggests this, as does Truth in Sequence. Instead it's more likely that HoK kept the throne warm for a minute while Sheo/Jyggalag went out to go organize LEGOs or something, then was absorbed by Sheo upon Sheo's return. The "end" of the Greymarch is just another part of the Greymarch, otherwise Haskill wouldn't be a thing.

    But of course, this is in support of the idea that every player character's actions are the choice of the individual.

    Landfall is not part of the lore, so it's irrelevant.
    Just because it isn't official doesn't mean it isn't lore. You may not accept it, but others certainly do. Canon is a construct and all ideas are valid.

    The difference is that Bethesda wouldn't spend time and resources into adding that line of dialogue if it didn't serve a purpose. I suppose House Hlaalu and Dres didn't release their slaves either, oh, and House Indoril clearly wasn't being picked apart. The Legions weren't spread out across the provinces, etc. etc. etc.

    The loremaster's archive with Haskill is irrelevant, because it comes from a time where the Greymarch always ended with Jyggalag on top. The HoK defeated Jyggalag and stopped the Greymarch, and he was the only one to have ever done so.

    Landfall isn't part of the lore because it doesn't appear in material published by Bethesda. Having your own fanon is fine, but don't use it in an argument for lore. Landall is not part of the lore, you can like it, sure, but don't say it's lore because it's not. It's fanon, fanfiction. It's no more part of the lore than the claim that unicorns are secretly Uriel Septim in disguise.
  • RealWhiteGuar
    RealWhiteGuar
    ✭✭
    The difference is that Bethesda wouldn't spend time and resources into adding that line of dialogue if it didn't serve a purpose.
    Yes, that purpose being to provide multiple possibilities and having us come to our own conclusions. I literally interviewed Leamon Tuttle myself and he told me this exact thing. Allow me to quote the relevant bits for you:
    In his farewell letter, Lawrence Schick mentioned how “the lore is yours.” Do you have anything you’d like to add or amend to that sentiment?

    LT: I think it’s spot-on. Even as the Loremaster, my personal interpretations of the lore are not authoritative. It’s our job to provide multiple, conflicting perspectives and encourage people in the community to draw their own conclusions. How you choose to connect those dots (or not connect them) is entirely up to you.
    All creative enterprises—books, movies, games, etc—should ideally serve as jumping off points for the next great idea. When you lock an idea in amber and insist that it remain exactly the same, and that it conform to your personal preferences, you’re basically strangling it to death. The Elder Scrolls belong to everyone, and as long as we provide inspiration for your creative expression and fan-debates, I’d say we’re doing the job well.
    The loremaster's archive with Haskill is irrelevant, because it comes from a time where the Greymarch always ended with Jyggalag on top. The HoK defeated Jyggalag and stopped the Greymarch, and he was the only one to have ever done so.
    And yet Haskill "mantled" Sheogorath in a "previous event," too, implying that he succeeded. So why is he still around?
    Landfall isn't part of the lore because it doesn't appear in material published by Bethesda. Having your own fanon is fine, but don't use it in an argument for lore. Landall is not part of the lore, you can like it, sure, but don't say it's lore because it's not. It's fanon, fanfiction. It's no more part of the lore than the claim that unicorns are secretly Uriel Septim in disguise.
    The lore is what the lore is, and Bethesda's got very little say in the matter. As I mentioned in the interview I linked above, Lawrence Schick made it very clear that "the lore is yours," and Tuttle agreed with him. Kirkbride has said this. Kuhlman has said this. This is the official stance on "canon," that "canon" isn't a concept worth entertaining, because all perspectives, all theories, and all interpretations are equal in the arena of ideas. Pick and choose what you want to accept, and don't flip out at others for doing the same.

    Everyone's interpretation is different, and policing what's "real lore" and what's not is simple gatekeeping at worst and intellectual dishonesty at best.
    Edited by RealWhiteGuar on May 25, 2019 5:27AM
    @RealWhiteGuar | The_White_Guar
    Editor-in-chief
    The Tel Mora Independent Press

    Moderator: r/teslore
    Admin: The Dreamsleeve
  • Nexerous
    Nexerous
    The difference is that Bethesda wouldn't spend time and resources into adding that line of dialogue if it didn't serve a purpose.
    Yes, that purpose being to provide multiple possibilities and having us come to our own conclusions. I literally interviewed Leamon Tuttle myself and he told me this exact thing. Allow me to quote the relevant bits for you:
    In his farewell letter, Lawrence Schick mentioned how “the lore is yours.” Do you have anything you’d like to add or amend to that sentiment?

    LT: I think it’s spot-on. Even as the Loremaster, my personal interpretations of the lore are not authoritative. It’s our job to provide multiple, conflicting perspectives and encourage people in the community to draw their own conclusions. How you choose to connect those dots (or not connect them) is entirely up to you.
    All creative enterprises—books, movies, games, etc—should ideally serve as jumping off points for the next great idea. When you lock an idea in amber and insist that it remain exactly the same, and that it conform to your personal preferences, you’re basically strangling it to death. The Elder Scrolls belong to everyone, and as long as we provide inspiration for your creative expression and fan-debates, I’d say we’re doing the job well.
    The loremaster's archive with Haskill is irrelevant, because it comes from a time where the Greymarch always ended with Jyggalag on top. The HoK defeated Jyggalag and stopped the Greymarch, and he was the only one to have ever done so.
    And yet Haskill "mantled" Sheogorath in a "previous event," too, implying that he succeeded. So why is he still around?
    Landfall isn't part of the lore because it doesn't appear in material published by Bethesda. Having your own fanon is fine, but don't use it in an argument for lore. Landall is not part of the lore, you can like it, sure, but don't say it's lore because it's not. It's fanon, fanfiction. It's no more part of the lore than the claim that unicorns are secretly Uriel Septim in disguise.
    The lore is what the lore is, and Bethesda's got very little say in the matter. As I mentioned in the interview I linked above, Lawrence Schick made it very clear that "the lore is yours," and Tuttle agreed with him. Kirkbride has said this. Kuhlman has said this. This is the official stance on "canon," that "canon" isn't a concept worth entertaining, because all perspectives, all theories, and all interpretations are equal in the arena of ideas. Pick and choose what you want to accept, and don't flip out at others for doing the same.

    Everyone's interpretation is different, and policing what's "real lore" and what's not is simple gatekeeping at worst and intellectual dishonesty at best.

    Destruction: 100
  • Bruccius
    Bruccius
    ✭✭✭✭
    @RealWhiteGuar
    ESO is not TES IV, drawing a comparison between the two is quaint, but not really reliable. There is nothing that conflicts with the Nerevarine went to Akavir part; aside from your personal biases because of your like of an unofficial work. Him going to Akavir would support the claim of the Pocket Guide that he vanished. Tada. Common sense.

    Haskill mantling Sheogorath doesn't mean he succeeded. We had already mantled Sheogorath before the Greymarch ended; hence why we had his staff and were able to sit on his throne. The HoK defeated Jyggalag; thus permanently remaining Sheogorath, rather than being defeated and Jyggalag becoming Sheogorath again.

    Your lack of understanding of what lore is to a franchise is worrying. All that Schick and our new loremaster have done is encourage playing the game and setting your mind on what you like. Canon is not a concept, it's a word with a definition meaning ''official''. What's canon is official. You dislike this notion because your fanon loses value because of it. Like so many of the Kirkbride fanbase.

    Then again, you care more for emotions than you do facts. Hence why your entire stance is the way it is. Your way of arguing lore makes lore pointless, because anyone can just say ''BuT In MY VeRSioN ThAT DidN'T HaPPeN, So It IS NoT A FacT!''.
  • RealWhiteGuar
    RealWhiteGuar
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    Him going to Akavir would support the claim of the Pocket Guide that he vanished. Tada. Common sense.
    The HoK defeated Jyggalag; thus permanently remaining Sheogorath, rather than being defeated and Jyggalag becoming Sheogorath again.
    If that's how you'd like to interpret these scenarios, that's fine. But there is no proof, so your speculation is just as good as anyone else's.

    Your lack of understanding of what lore is to a franchise is worrying.
    I'm not worried about a franchise. Money doesn't matter to me. I'm worried about the fictional world and how abstract concepts are inherently subjective. Additionally, lore is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as:
    A body of traditions and knowledge on a subject or held by a particular group, typically passed from person to person by word of mouth.
    The "group" here would be the lore community. We all have a stake in this.
    All that Schick and our new loremaster have done is encourage playing the game and setting your mind on what you like.
    Except that it applies to lore, too. Anything you can say to avoid cognitive dissonance, eh? Subjectivity in lore has been a thing since Daggerfall, made more pronounced in Morrowind. Did you know that all the lorebooks in Daggerfall were written by fans? Fan creation lies at the heart and soul of TES, and it always has.
    You realize that Schick and MK are friends, yes? And that the same is true of Tuttle? They're of a similar mind on this subject, and we've got the quotes to prove it.
    You dislike this notion because your fanon loses value because of it. Like so many of the Kirkbride fanbase.
    No, I dislike the notion because it suggests that some ideas are inferior to others, and Bethesda's headcanon is not any more valid than anyone else's. It's all made-up anyway.
    Your way of arguing lore makes lore pointless, because anyone can just say ''BuT In MY VeRSioN ThAT DidN'T HaPPeN, So It IS NoT A FacT!''.
    That's a bit of a sophomoric way to handle the discussion, but that's fine.
    What does "fact" matter when the topic in question is fiction to begin with? "True" and "false" are already subjective simply by virtue of being contained in a conceptual falsehood. The lore shouldn't be made "pointless" by this thought, because the whole point is that you decide what is true for you, which is true of just about anything else. Our lives, in a nihilistic way of thinking, are ultimately pointless, but your life matters to you, right? Do we not all have different experiences and methods of thought that alter the way we view our lives? Why should being pointless mean it doesn't matter? The fact of the matter is that we enjoy it, and no one can tell you that the weird little combinations of electrical signals and chemical reactions in your brain are wrong. Your idea of what Tamriel is cannot be categorically false, because the only one who gets to decide what your ideas are is you.
    I'll never understand why people are resistant to the idea of openness.

    There was a short series of opinion articles that I featured in The Tel Mora Independent Press, one written by a friend of mine, and the other written in response by me. There's a third unrelated one that I think succinctly points out why C0DA (and writings like it) are important. The latter of the three even influenced the entire lore community in Brazil, so it's worth a look - it was even written by a guy who hates C0DA. I think they may be of interest to you, and I'll link them below.

    Game First, Story Later
    Franchise versus Fiction
    C0DA: A Treatise on the Veracity of Canon

    Other than that, I think I'm done here.
    Edited by RealWhiteGuar on May 25, 2019 4:44PM
    @RealWhiteGuar | The_White_Guar
    Editor-in-chief
    The Tel Mora Independent Press

    Moderator: r/teslore
    Admin: The Dreamsleeve
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    He went to akavir
    Following the fulfillment of the prophecies, the Nerevarine vanished. In 3E 433, there are rumors that the Nerevarine has left on an expedition to Akavir, and has not been heard from since their departure.

    From the actual lore source

    I should stress that it is rumored that he went to Akavir. Whether the Nerevarine actually went to Akavir is the decision of each individual player, as Prisoner actions post-game are left vague for this very reason.

    I believe he was sent to Akavir because they did not want another demigod-like being roaming around on Tamriel mucking up with future storylines. They intentionally killed off these beings for a good reason. The Nerevarine moving to Akavir makes a lot of sense for many reasons and I like to think they're saving him for the future as a means to swoop in and either solve a major problem in the storyline or as some terrible destroyer. They could also just leave him in obscurity on some faraway continent with his immortality and vast magical knowledge.

    That's a cool idea!

    My Nerevarine went to Akavir to run away from her problems. After the events of Tribunal, she realized that the Houses and Helseth weren't going to pull together to stop the fall of Baar Dau in time, realized the folly of letting the Dunmer revere her in the way they revered the fallen and powerhungry Almalexia, and decided to get out of dodge before the meteor fell and the inevitable war with the Argonians started.

    Basically, she saw Red Year coming and said, "I saved you once, and now you've got to stop depending on heroes and gods to save you. I can't keep doing this."
    Edited by VaranisArano on May 25, 2019 5:07PM
  • Bruccius
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    @RealWhiteGuar
    ''But there is no proof''
    Oh please, get this out of here. It's like saying ''Jesus never existed, because there is no proof!''

    The lore of a franchise is the history, geography, and pretty much everything that makes the franchise its own thing. The same thing that makes our world ''our thing'' is what makes the lore of a franchise the franchise ''its own thing''. On earth we have our continents, Nirn has its own. On earth we have our religions, Nirn has its own. On earth we have our histories, Nirn has its own. Lore is just that. Earth has its facts, and has its fictions. That doesn't mean you can just spread some words and say ''These are just as valid as any theory out there!'', which is precisely what you're doing by promoting Kirkbride's, or really any, unofficial works.

    Also, fyi, the term ''lore'' that you just used is the kind related to relgion and tradition. Think of things like folklore. Lore in a fictional setting is completely different.

    If the fans wrote every book we see ingame that's nice and all, but the reason they are part of the lore is, ultimately, because they appeared in the franchise. Lore is subjective in so far as that you can create your own theories based on what is given to you in the universe. Schick directly even says so in one of his interviews. All Schick has ever said is that they give you a bunch of accounts and that YOU have the liberty of creating your own theories based on those conflicting accounts. He promotes the creation of fanon, that doesn't mean that that, for any reason whatsoever, becomes part of TESlore. Schick says that you hear a lot of things in the universe, contradicting and reaffirming. All Schick does is promote being open-minded in your thought. That doesn't mean that what you think is, for that reason, valid.

    The problem with folks like you is that you insist that ''EvERYthiNG Is Of VAluE, EveN WhEN Not PUbliSHeD By THe DEvElopERs!'', and that's exactly what makes people ignorant of the facts of the fictional universe. It's like saying ''Darth Vader is actually not a Sith, he just dyed his lightsaber red!'', or like saying ''Akavir doesn't exist, it's just a myth made up by the Empire to justify their opression!'', it's baseless and pointless, and makes people not care about the franchise. After all, if nothing is set in stone, you can't learn the franchise. Without canon, the lore itself is pointless.

    And no. There is no ''true for you'' in things that are set in stone. The Hero of Kvatch is the one who played the biggest role in the Oblivion Crisis, Martin Septim beat Mehruns Dagon, that's canon, that's fact. Cyrodiil is the heartland of Tamriel, that's, again, canon. You can try to deny it, but it's pointless to do so, because it's factual.

    Your notion that something being fanon automatically removes its worth is a problem of yours, and it only shows the problem with works like C0DA.
    Edited by Bruccius on May 26, 2019 12:24AM
  • khajiitNPC
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    I believe c0da is referenced in clockwork city. People like Bruccius are finite players. There’s an A and B. He’s literally a NPC. He holds onto his sense of self and time. He hasn’t shed his sleeve yet. Eyes half closed watching shadows on a cave wall. He points to his history books and says “look it says so right here”, even as those books become dust in his palms, even as his palms become dust in the stars. The tower must be viewed on his own. Lore is a papery cicada shell in the mouth of a cat. A finite insect in the maw of a greater creature.
    Edited by khajiitNPC on June 8, 2019 9:25AM
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