CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You don’t even need wings on a dk but the nerfs those classes got are well deserved.

That's not the issue for debate though, it's not that I don't agree with balance, but....
They weren't well deserved until my characters are leveled and geared then literally within the week issues that have never been touched for years suddenly go high priority? I'm calling ***! and you can chalk it up to pts, but the bottom line is I never play pts, and no significant nerf to cloak has ever gone live, ever, not to mention this is sub-min/max incremental only, and dk have been fanboi for many, many patches.

Look I get this *** is ragepost, but I mean how am I supposed to look at this? It takes time, energy, and planning, and I'm just supposed to chalk this *** up to what coincidence that a class' upper capacity gets cut in half or gets a built in counterplay as soon I go combat ready? It's disheartening to say the least. And not just "oh sometimes things get nerfed." I get sometimes things get nerfed, but these are always perfectly timed game-breaking implementations.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

slicksteezin wrote: »

Show me where on the doll the class balancing devs touched you....

Lol ugh I have tried to be neutral and as sympathetic to devs as possible in recent days but just the constant sabotage is exhausting and I've hit my limit with it I think.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Bumi Rockafella wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Literally the only time things that imbalanced get nerfed are when I roll them and invest time in them. That's it.

I roll a sorc, get it to 50, get it geared, next day shields nerfed.
I roll a NB, get it geared and set up, right as it's playable, invis cloak gets nerfed.
I roll a dk, wings gets nerfed.

And it literally does not matter how much time I wait. I waited months in between rolling characters, never once did they even consider a nerf. PvP balance is straight up fake.

Sorc (assuming mag) is one of the best solo class, it has a ton of sustainability even with shield nerf that happened months ago.
NB is borderline OP if you build it correctly.
DK got so many buffs this patch.

The 3 classes you listed are really, really strong.

The upward capacity of a class and its overall comparative play strength are two separate issues and have completely different implications.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Oh ya and cloak is definitely not the same it's been for ages it's 1 second duration now. You have to spam it repeatedly to sustain invisibility.

1 second duration? Please learn the class and skills before commenting

Cathexis wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Sorcs are one of the strongest pvp classes. I suggest taking time trying to learn and play one class well rather then rerolling the fotm.

I've played sorc since the beginning I know the math just fine and I can tell you that the 50% health cap on shields was the nerf bat equivalent of beating someone's head in.

DarkerDreams wrote: »

If they nerfed a class and you rolled a new character then you did exactly what they wanted you to do. Balanced is a myth they invented in these kinds of games as an excuse to keep shifting the bar. Nerfs and changes are designed to keep people interested and playing more by making them grind for new builds, gear, try new chars, ect...

Yeah and I'm saying, if you are a new player you should not join this game because its straight up rigged as ***.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Hmmm cute post bro, shields and wings got buffed and cloak is the same it's been for ages. Please puff, puff, pass that before posting.

Uh LOL.

When my mag sorc got PvP ready they slapped a 50% health cap on shields. MASSIVE nerf.
When my stamblade got PvP ready they slapped a 75% timer buff on cloak and made it have a permanent negative mag coefficient. MASSIVE nerf.
I roll a dk, which can literally face tank like a boss out the gate and they slap a nerf on projectile reflect and make them easy pickings with a sniper. MASSIVE nerf.

Literally every time they are geared and ready they get crippled to some degree for solo play. It's weak as hell.

This *** has nothing to do with a L2P issue.

Apparently it does if you're still struggling. Sorc and dk are strong af with the changes and if you need cloak to survive then...

I'll just leave at that since the forum mods seem to have a *** for me lately.

This is not about my capacity to play the class. I can play anything just fine. It's about this rigged as *** *** where anything I roll gets called for nerfs.

This is not the first time or way this *** sort of *** has happened either. Its the same *** where midyear mayhem was introduced the month I took a calculated run at the top leaderboard slot (which I would have overtaken, because my daily turnover on AP was radically higher than the leaderboard and over a 20 day projection I could have done it). It's infuriating!

Don't get wrong, I think it sucks that after almost 5 years they still have absolutely no clue about their game and still make drastic changes that make no sense, but it's always been like that. Unfortunately we can't force them to learn the game or give af about their loyal customers that have been dealing with these problems for years.

All I can say is adapt, play multiple classes, or move on. Zos has made it clear that they do not care about loyal customers and they would rather create new content for new customers instead of having a working product that would earn them tenfold $$$ with new customers and keeping the old ones.

I can post a screenshot, my magblade and stamblade cloak is 1s. Now maybe it may have to do with a changed leveling progression of the skill relative to the cast duration, but it's completely hamstrung their sustainable cloak at their level and has essentially borked my entire calculation and trajectory.

Please post then, last I checked it was 3 seconds and increased with each piece of heavy armor. Shouldn't need more than that to get out of danger. Personally I use the heal morph though, always felt cheesy hiding in a fight.

Give me some time I will.

VV See below, image quality is poor but its enough you can see its 1 second @ rank 3 now with no passive. It's unusable, and I understand that that is not at full capacity, for the trajectory I have been working with and its intent it's entirely impractical.

edit; this link is clearer.
https://ibb.co/v1WzmTJ

Level the skill up and put some points into passives to increase its duration, resistance buff, recovery, health and then you will see the benefits the skill has to offer. Sometimes the passives are better than the skills.

Except I'm minmaxing a lowbie and that doesn't work mathematically without overshooting specific marks and changing the distribution of skill point investment. That's not a reasonable plan.

Cathexis wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

slicksteezin wrote: »

Show me where on the doll the class balancing devs touched you....

Lol ugh I have tried to be neutral and as sympathetic to devs as possible in recent days but just the constant sabotage is exhausting and I've hit my limit with it I think.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Bumi Rockafella wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Literally the only time things that imbalanced get nerfed are when I roll them and invest time in them. That's it.

I roll a sorc, get it to 50, get it geared, next day shields nerfed.
I roll a NB, get it geared and set up, right as it's playable, invis cloak gets nerfed.
I roll a dk, wings gets nerfed.

And it literally does not matter how much time I wait. I waited months in between rolling characters, never once did they even consider a nerf. PvP balance is straight up fake.

Sorc (assuming mag) is one of the best solo class, it has a ton of sustainability even with shield nerf that happened months ago.
NB is borderline OP if you build it correctly.
DK got so many buffs this patch.

The 3 classes you listed are really, really strong.

The upward capacity of a class and its overall comparative play strength are two separate issues and have completely different implications.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Oh ya and cloak is definitely not the same it's been for ages it's 1 second duration now. You have to spam it repeatedly to sustain invisibility.

1 second duration? Please learn the class and skills before commenting

Cathexis wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Sorcs are one of the strongest pvp classes. I suggest taking time trying to learn and play one class well rather then rerolling the fotm.

I've played sorc since the beginning I know the math just fine and I can tell you that the 50% health cap on shields was the nerf bat equivalent of beating someone's head in.

DarkerDreams wrote: »

If they nerfed a class and you rolled a new character then you did exactly what they wanted you to do. Balanced is a myth they invented in these kinds of games as an excuse to keep shifting the bar. Nerfs and changes are designed to keep people interested and playing more by making them grind for new builds, gear, try new chars, ect...

Yeah and I'm saying, if you are a new player you should not join this game because its straight up rigged as ***.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Hmmm cute post bro, shields and wings got buffed and cloak is the same it's been for ages. Please puff, puff, pass that before posting.

Uh LOL.

When my mag sorc got PvP ready they slapped a 50% health cap on shields. MASSIVE nerf.
When my stamblade got PvP ready they slapped a 75% timer buff on cloak and made it have a permanent negative mag coefficient. MASSIVE nerf.
I roll a dk, which can literally face tank like a boss out the gate and they slap a nerf on projectile reflect and make them easy pickings with a sniper. MASSIVE nerf.

Literally every time they are geared and ready they get crippled to some degree for solo play. It's weak as hell.

This *** has nothing to do with a L2P issue.

Apparently it does if you're still struggling. Sorc and dk are strong af with the changes and if you need cloak to survive then...

I'll just leave at that since the forum mods seem to have a *** for me lately.

This is not about my capacity to play the class. I can play anything just fine. It's about this rigged as *** *** where anything I roll gets called for nerfs.

This is not the first time or way this *** sort of *** has happened either. Its the same *** where midyear mayhem was introduced the month I took a calculated run at the top leaderboard slot (which I would have overtaken, because my daily turnover on AP was radically higher than the leaderboard and over a 20 day projection I could have done it). It's infuriating!

Don't get wrong, I think it sucks that after almost 5 years they still have absolutely no clue about their game and still make drastic changes that make no sense, but it's always been like that. Unfortunately we can't force them to learn the game or give af about their loyal customers that have been dealing with these problems for years.

All I can say is adapt, play multiple classes, or move on. Zos has made it clear that they do not care about loyal customers and they would rather create new content for new customers instead of having a working product that would earn them tenfold $$$ with new customers and keeping the old ones.

I can post a screenshot, my magblade and stamblade cloak is 1s. Now maybe it may have to do with a changed leveling progression of the skill relative to the cast duration, but it's completely hamstrung their sustainable cloak at their level and has essentially borked my entire calculation and trajectory.

Please post then, last I checked it was 3 seconds and increased with each piece of heavy armor. Shouldn't need more than that to get out of danger. Personally I use the heal morph though, always felt cheesy hiding in a fight.

Give me some time I will.

VV See below, image quality is poor but its enough you can see its 1 second @ rank 3 now with no passive. It's unusable, and I understand that that is not at full capacity, for the trajectory I have been working with and its intent it's entirely impractical.

edit; this link is clearer.
https://ibb.co/v1WzmTJ

Level the skill up and put some points into passives to increase its duration, resistance buff, recovery, health and then you will see the benefits the skill has to offer. Sometimes the passives are better than the skills.

Except I'm minmaxing a lowbie and that doesn't work mathematically without overshooting specific marks and changing the distribution of skill point investment. That's not a reasonable plan.

So it IS a l2p issue.

Cathexis wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

slicksteezin wrote: »

Show me where on the doll the class balancing devs touched you....

Lol ugh I have tried to be neutral and as sympathetic to devs as possible in recent days but just the constant sabotage is exhausting and I've hit my limit with it I think.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Bumi Rockafella wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Literally the only time things that imbalanced get nerfed are when I roll them and invest time in them. That's it.

I roll a sorc, get it to 50, get it geared, next day shields nerfed.
I roll a NB, get it geared and set up, right as it's playable, invis cloak gets nerfed.
I roll a dk, wings gets nerfed.

And it literally does not matter how much time I wait. I waited months in between rolling characters, never once did they even consider a nerf. PvP balance is straight up fake.

Sorc (assuming mag) is one of the best solo class, it has a ton of sustainability even with shield nerf that happened months ago.
NB is borderline OP if you build it correctly.
DK got so many buffs this patch.

The 3 classes you listed are really, really strong.

The upward capacity of a class and its overall comparative play strength are two separate issues and have completely different implications.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Oh ya and cloak is definitely not the same it's been for ages it's 1 second duration now. You have to spam it repeatedly to sustain invisibility.

1 second duration? Please learn the class and skills before commenting

Cathexis wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Sorcs are one of the strongest pvp classes. I suggest taking time trying to learn and play one class well rather then rerolling the fotm.

I've played sorc since the beginning I know the math just fine and I can tell you that the 50% health cap on shields was the nerf bat equivalent of beating someone's head in.

DarkerDreams wrote: »

If they nerfed a class and you rolled a new character then you did exactly what they wanted you to do. Balanced is a myth they invented in these kinds of games as an excuse to keep shifting the bar. Nerfs and changes are designed to keep people interested and playing more by making them grind for new builds, gear, try new chars, ect...

Yeah and I'm saying, if you are a new player you should not join this game because its straight up rigged as ***.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Hmmm cute post bro, shields and wings got buffed and cloak is the same it's been for ages. Please puff, puff, pass that before posting.

Uh LOL.

When my mag sorc got PvP ready they slapped a 50% health cap on shields. MASSIVE nerf.
When my stamblade got PvP ready they slapped a 75% timer buff on cloak and made it have a permanent negative mag coefficient. MASSIVE nerf.
I roll a dk, which can literally face tank like a boss out the gate and they slap a nerf on projectile reflect and make them easy pickings with a sniper. MASSIVE nerf.

Literally every time they are geared and ready they get crippled to some degree for solo play. It's weak as hell.

This *** has nothing to do with a L2P issue.

Apparently it does if you're still struggling. Sorc and dk are strong af with the changes and if you need cloak to survive then...

I'll just leave at that since the forum mods seem to have a *** for me lately.

This is not about my capacity to play the class. I can play anything just fine. It's about this rigged as *** *** where anything I roll gets called for nerfs.

This is not the first time or way this *** sort of *** has happened either. Its the same *** where midyear mayhem was introduced the month I took a calculated run at the top leaderboard slot (which I would have overtaken, because my daily turnover on AP was radically higher than the leaderboard and over a 20 day projection I could have done it). It's infuriating!

Don't get wrong, I think it sucks that after almost 5 years they still have absolutely no clue about their game and still make drastic changes that make no sense, but it's always been like that. Unfortunately we can't force them to learn the game or give af about their loyal customers that have been dealing with these problems for years.

All I can say is adapt, play multiple classes, or move on. Zos has made it clear that they do not care about loyal customers and they would rather create new content for new customers instead of having a working product that would earn them tenfold $$$ with new customers and keeping the old ones.

I can post a screenshot, my magblade and stamblade cloak is 1s. Now maybe it may have to do with a changed leveling progression of the skill relative to the cast duration, but it's completely hamstrung their sustainable cloak at their level and has essentially borked my entire calculation and trajectory.

Please post then, last I checked it was 3 seconds and increased with each piece of heavy armor. Shouldn't need more than that to get out of danger. Personally I use the heal morph though, always felt cheesy hiding in a fight.

Give me some time I will.

VV See below, image quality is poor but its enough you can see its 1 second @ rank 3 now with no passive. It's unusable, and I understand that that is not at full capacity, for the trajectory I have been working with and its intent it's entirely impractical.

edit; this link is clearer.
https://ibb.co/v1WzmTJ

Level the skill up and put some points into passives to increase its duration, resistance buff, recovery, health and then you will see the benefits the skill has to offer. Sometimes the passives are better than the skills.

Except I'm minmaxing a lowbie and that doesn't work mathematically without overshooting specific marks and changing the distribution of skill point investment. That's not a reasonable plan.

So it IS a l2p issue.

No, in no way is it a l2p issue. It literally has zero things to do with learning to play, in any capacity.

It is entirely to do with number crunching. If I expend more skill points to achieve the same desired outcome as prior to the patch, then that necessitates reallocating a calculated number of skill points acquired relative to leveling time invested (where the optimum output is specific and below level 50).

The net result is a skewed build trajectory. I'm not interested in building casually, I'm interested in laying a beat down. Understand?

Your beat is a sad trombone because you fail to learn a class properly and fully level its skills and passives.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

slicksteezin wrote: »

Show me where on the doll the class balancing devs touched you....

Lol ugh I have tried to be neutral and as sympathetic to devs as possible in recent days but just the constant sabotage is exhausting and I've hit my limit with it I think.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Bumi Rockafella wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Literally the only time things that imbalanced get nerfed are when I roll them and invest time in them. That's it.

I roll a sorc, get it to 50, get it geared, next day shields nerfed.
I roll a NB, get it geared and set up, right as it's playable, invis cloak gets nerfed.
I roll a dk, wings gets nerfed.

And it literally does not matter how much time I wait. I waited months in between rolling characters, never once did they even consider a nerf. PvP balance is straight up fake.

Sorc (assuming mag) is one of the best solo class, it has a ton of sustainability even with shield nerf that happened months ago.
NB is borderline OP if you build it correctly.
DK got so many buffs this patch.

The 3 classes you listed are really, really strong.

The upward capacity of a class and its overall comparative play strength are two separate issues and have completely different implications.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Oh ya and cloak is definitely not the same it's been for ages it's 1 second duration now. You have to spam it repeatedly to sustain invisibility.

1 second duration? Please learn the class and skills before commenting

Cathexis wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Sorcs are one of the strongest pvp classes. I suggest taking time trying to learn and play one class well rather then rerolling the fotm.

I've played sorc since the beginning I know the math just fine and I can tell you that the 50% health cap on shields was the nerf bat equivalent of beating someone's head in.

DarkerDreams wrote: »

If they nerfed a class and you rolled a new character then you did exactly what they wanted you to do. Balanced is a myth they invented in these kinds of games as an excuse to keep shifting the bar. Nerfs and changes are designed to keep people interested and playing more by making them grind for new builds, gear, try new chars, ect...

Yeah and I'm saying, if you are a new player you should not join this game because its straight up rigged as ***.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Hmmm cute post bro, shields and wings got buffed and cloak is the same it's been for ages. Please puff, puff, pass that before posting.

Uh LOL.

When my mag sorc got PvP ready they slapped a 50% health cap on shields. MASSIVE nerf.
When my stamblade got PvP ready they slapped a 75% timer buff on cloak and made it have a permanent negative mag coefficient. MASSIVE nerf.
I roll a dk, which can literally face tank like a boss out the gate and they slap a nerf on projectile reflect and make them easy pickings with a sniper. MASSIVE nerf.

Literally every time they are geared and ready they get crippled to some degree for solo play. It's weak as hell.

This *** has nothing to do with a L2P issue.

Apparently it does if you're still struggling. Sorc and dk are strong af with the changes and if you need cloak to survive then...

I'll just leave at that since the forum mods seem to have a *** for me lately.

This is not about my capacity to play the class. I can play anything just fine. It's about this rigged as *** *** where anything I roll gets called for nerfs.

This is not the first time or way this *** sort of *** has happened either. Its the same *** where midyear mayhem was introduced the month I took a calculated run at the top leaderboard slot (which I would have overtaken, because my daily turnover on AP was radically higher than the leaderboard and over a 20 day projection I could have done it). It's infuriating!

Don't get wrong, I think it sucks that after almost 5 years they still have absolutely no clue about their game and still make drastic changes that make no sense, but it's always been like that. Unfortunately we can't force them to learn the game or give af about their loyal customers that have been dealing with these problems for years.

All I can say is adapt, play multiple classes, or move on. Zos has made it clear that they do not care about loyal customers and they would rather create new content for new customers instead of having a working product that would earn them tenfold $$$ with new customers and keeping the old ones.

I can post a screenshot, my magblade and stamblade cloak is 1s. Now maybe it may have to do with a changed leveling progression of the skill relative to the cast duration, but it's completely hamstrung their sustainable cloak at their level and has essentially borked my entire calculation and trajectory.

Please post then, last I checked it was 3 seconds and increased with each piece of heavy armor. Shouldn't need more than that to get out of danger. Personally I use the heal morph though, always felt cheesy hiding in a fight.

Give me some time I will.

VV See below, image quality is poor but its enough you can see its 1 second @ rank 3 now with no passive. It's unusable, and I understand that that is not at full capacity, for the trajectory I have been working with and its intent it's entirely impractical.

edit; this link is clearer.
https://ibb.co/v1WzmTJ

Level the skill up and put some points into passives to increase its duration, resistance buff, recovery, health and then you will see the benefits the skill has to offer. Sometimes the passives are better than the skills.

Except I'm minmaxing a lowbie and that doesn't work mathematically without overshooting specific marks and changing the distribution of skill point investment. That's not a reasonable plan.

Then don't use it if you're not willing to level it up or it's passives. That's no argument to increase it's duration.

Like I said the passives are very important, they increase the duration and also buff resistance, health, and recovery. An extra hour of sky shard hunting sounds like a reasonable plan to me to reap those benefits.

That is not the issue and it is not just a matter of carrying forward a few skyshards. It means carrying forward an entire skill line which in turn carries forward further leveling and misses the intended mark of the desired outcome.

None of which is the issue I am calling to which is the convenient inconvenience of every instance of this ***.

darkblue5 wrote: »

Wait is this for murdering lowbies in the under 50? Why else would extra leveling be so harmful?

"Murdering lowbies" no.

Cathexis wrote: »

darkblue5 wrote: »

All three when properly leveled and geared.... are going to do just fine.
For magsorc you gotta change the way you min-max your shields since Murkmire but they now are much hardier. Mighty Chudan (/1 Pirate Skele) and Necropotence makes some pretty tough shields that don't go over 50% health. Second sets/weapons differ and you can get more inventive if you spend transmutes on Protective traits but the shields are pretty good with resists.
Magdk wings are a weird nerf/buff. What side you're on kind of depends on what you were doing previously. They also got some straight buffs.
Magblade is almost straight buffed this patch. The new Grim Focus mitigation is exactly what magblade needed if it wasn't going to get its old healing back. I've been PvPing less and I swear I've already seen more magblades running around than all last patch.
Stamblade is fine just don't slot Incap unless you want to solely harass anyone with a staff.

As I stated before this has nothing to do with the playable viability of a class.
The overall playability and upward capacity of a class are two different things. A shield spamming sorc with uncapped shields is far better than a shield spamming sorc with capped shields, even though both may be perfectly playable. To say that they are equally powerful before as to now is just foolish - if that were true, there would have been no call to implement a shield cap in the first place.

IMO the shield nerf/buff was more about PVE DPS not needing healers than PvP. Overall shields are stronger IMO than the were but you need to invest in them with the most efficient sources of resistance to keep enough sustain and damage. Monster heads and Protective Jewelry are just about as efficient as you can get without losing a full 5 piece bonus.

I've played magsorc before and after the change and the meta Necro/Master's Inferno/Lich with Mighty Chudan is a lot better than sorcs were before Murkmire (esp with the Implosion changes). It's actually really hard to hit the shield cap while also building in sustain, defense, and damage so I've rarely had to think about it when working on builds.

If you're needing to level your nightblade with certain amounts of XP and such I'm not sure what (self imposed?) limits you're under. Skyshards and Public Dungeon group events, actual Dungeon quests etc have always provided me enough skill points...
Glad to hear you're not planning on killing lowbies but then I really don't understand the heavily planned out leveling.

Cathexis wrote: »

Cloak last 3s when you have the passive that increase shadow skills by 2s.

L2R

Just don't play FOTM build's. Playing my NB since March 2014

Checkmath wrote: »

Should it not be normal for a game to nerf the fotm class. I mean, you naturally can only play, what is currently best. But at the moment people talk about what class and spec is overperforming, then also most likely the devs heard about it. If you at this point started to play a new spec because it is the best, chances are high, that you will see some changes coming to your character.

I was thinking something similar; something akin to : "if I know about it, then everyone knows about it, then that means it'll be nerfed soon"