Pros and Cons of faction lock!

laksikus · May 2019

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Let me preface i play from the time faction lock was default setting. And im very pro faction lock. Recent outcry on forums actually baffles me to a point i considered to be wrong about the whole thing.

I want to have CIVIL disscussion about it and list pros and cons..or at least what you feel pros and cons are AND ARGUMENT IT.

Ill start:

Pros:

-Balanced Population - Forcing people into 1 faction creates a natural division of playerbase and artiffically distributes players to a more equal state, WITHOUT giving players a chance to faction-hop and break the equilibrium for the sake of overnumbering other factions and reducing their power and ability to attack/defend that way.

-Faction loyalty - This one is somewhat moot as some dont care about the story of it all so they wouldnt neccesarily care about the faction, but for those who do care it is a great way of siding with the that they think should "win" the war.

-No power-hopping - People wont be able to go to a currently winning faction in order to power-farm AP by crushing other alliance further into the ground. This way LEVEL OF COMPETITION THROUGHOUT THE DAY/NIGHT IS MORE BALANCED.

-No "spies" - There wont be people who will abuse zone chat to feed information about your faction to enemy in order to better anticipate and prepare for an upcoming attack.

Cons:

-Forcing a race - for people that dont have "Any Race, Any Alliance", they are forced to play certain 3 races that belong to the faction...this one is somewhat problematic and i can see it as a con and decently big con if i may add.

Wierd thing people mention:

"I cant play with my firends" - I dont understant this at all... If u are friends, why cant you decide on a faction and play there together. Creating a battle ready Cyrodiil toon is extremely easy and it takes like 10h of playtime...ESSPECIALLY if u have friends to speed up the grind.

Discuss. But please be civil and argument your statements.

Blood for the Pact!

actually your pros are biased as ***.

-balanced population: you dont balance the Population by faction locking the campaign,you widen the gap. before faction lock you could choose to join the weaker alliance if your main alliance was zerging and destroying any pvp. just hop on anither char. you cant do that with faction lock.

no power hopping: if you are on EP and the whole map is red you wont make any decent AP.

no spies: you know you can whisper anyone? this "problem" didnt get changed at all.

ellahellabella · May 2019

laksikus wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Let me preface i play from the time faction lock was default setting. And im very pro faction lock. Recent outcry on forums actually baffles me to a point i considered to be wrong about the whole thing.

I want to have CIVIL disscussion about it and list pros and cons..or at least what you feel pros and cons are AND ARGUMENT IT.

Ill start:

Pros:

-Balanced Population - Forcing people into 1 faction creates a natural division of playerbase and artiffically distributes players to a more equal state, WITHOUT giving players a chance to faction-hop and break the equilibrium for the sake of overnumbering other factions and reducing their power and ability to attack/defend that way.

-Faction loyalty - This one is somewhat moot as some dont care about the story of it all so they wouldnt neccesarily care about the faction, but for those who do care it is a great way of siding with the that they think should "win" the war.

-No power-hopping - People wont be able to go to a currently winning faction in order to power-farm AP by crushing other alliance further into the ground. This way LEVEL OF COMPETITION THROUGHOUT THE DAY/NIGHT IS MORE BALANCED.

-No "spies" - There wont be people who will abuse zone chat to feed information about your faction to enemy in order to better anticipate and prepare for an upcoming attack.

Cons:

-Forcing a race - for people that dont have "Any Race, Any Alliance", they are forced to play certain 3 races that belong to the faction...this one is somewhat problematic and i can see it as a con and decently big con if i may add.

Wierd thing people mention:

"I cant play with my firends" - I dont understant this at all... If u are friends, why cant you decide on a faction and play there together. Creating a battle ready Cyrodiil toon is extremely easy and it takes like 10h of playtime...ESSPECIALLY if u have friends to speed up the grind.

Discuss. But please be civil and argument your statements.

Blood for the Pact!

actually your pros are biased as ***.

-balanced population: you dont balance the Population by faction locking the campaign,you widen the gap. before faction lock you could choose to join the weaker alliance if your main alliance was zerging and destroying any pvp. just hop on anither char. you cant do that with faction lock.

no power hopping: if you are on EP and the whole map is red you wont make any decent AP.

no spies: you know you can whisper anyone? this "problem" didnt get changed at all.

Yeah, i was one of these players but there were others that would swap to sides winning or go back and forth on other servers. So Zos being Zos, took the lazy way and just locked it all down.

I wouldn't mind locks for competitive sake if they were implemented differently. Instead we just got the straight shut down that we had before. It didn't work well then, why should it work now?

Joy_Division · May 2019

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Let me preface i play from the time faction lock was default setting. And im very pro faction lock. Recent outcry on forums actually baffles me to a point i considered to be wrong about the whole thing.

I want to have CIVIL disscussion about it and list pros and cons..or at least what you feel pros and cons are AND ARGUMENT IT.

Ill start:

Pros:

-Balanced Population - Forcing people into 1 faction creates a natural division of playerbase and artiffically distributes players to a more equal state, WITHOUT giving players a chance to faction-hop and break the equilibrium for the sake of overnumbering other factions and reducing their power and ability to attack/defend that way.

-Faction loyalty - This one is somewhat moot as some dont care about the story of it all so they wouldnt neccesarily care about the faction, but for those who do care it is a great way of siding with the that they think should "win" the war.

-No power-hopping - People wont be able to go to a currently winning faction in order to power-farm AP by crushing other alliance further into the ground. This way LEVEL OF COMPETITION THROUGHOUT THE DAY/NIGHT IS MORE BALANCED.

-No "spies" - There wont be people who will abuse zone chat to feed information about your faction to enemy in order to better anticipate and prepare for an upcoming attack.

Cons:

-Forcing a race - for people that dont have "Any Race, Any Alliance", they are forced to play certain 3 races that belong to the faction...this one is somewhat problematic and i can see it as a con and decently big con if i may add.

Wierd thing people mention:

"I cant play with my firends" - I dont understant this at all... If u are friends, why cant you decide on a faction and play there together. Creating a battle ready Cyrodiil toon is extremely easy and it takes like 10h of playtime...ESSPECIALLY if u have friends to speed up the grind.

Discuss. But please be civil and argument your statements.

Blood for the Pact!

You either don;t play on PC-NA or are just choosing not to see.

Balanced population - The population has never been more unbalanced, EP is everywhere.. On no CP, EP has got 3 bars vs the other two 1 bar and on CP, EP constantly has all 6 scrolls.

"Power-hopping" - I have no idea what you mean by this. But you can yell "LEVEL OF COMPETITION THROUGHOUT THE DAY/NIGHT IS MORE BALANCED" - until the cows come home, but the ridiculous lead and EP having all 6 scrolls says otherwise.

Spies - I hate to break this to you, but one of your "faction loyal" hardcore EP alliance mates whispers an AD friend in my guild everything the EP faction stack does because he's irritated by it. You do realize that you are allowed to send /tells to other alliances right?

Cant play with friends - First off, it takes a lot more than 10 hours to create a "battle ready" cyrodiil toon. Psiijic Grind alone is probably 10 hours. Secondly, if you are so keen on the concept of faction loyalty, then the idea of character loyalty should appeal to you. I've got a 5 star templar whose my main that I love and have 5 years of memories playing it. Now I can't.

bulbousb16_ESO · May 2019

Joy_Division wrote: »

You either don;t play on PC-NA or are just choosing not to see.

Balanced population - The population has never been more unbalanced, EP is everywhere.

I must have missed that. Yesterday, EP was getting hammered. There is no reason the two other Alliances couldn't wipe them out if they would co-operate.

heng14rwb17_ESO · May 2019

GO LOCK OR GO CRY !

Hamish999 · May 2019

snowmanflvb14_ESO wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Cons:
imbalance of population when one faction is zerging down the only relevant campaign as the other 3 are abysmally dead making it impossible to play said faction.

This is what happens now with faction hopping..this is the main aspect that faction lock improves..

frostz417 wrote: »

Cons:

Another con:
Pve players who don’t care about faction loyalty and others suffer because now they lose out on transmutation crystals due to most players who don’t PvP just have all other factions and they enter vivec just to acquire tier 1-3 rewards for gems.
It’s the best way to get gems since all other ways aren’t nearly as beneficial as this.

This just doesent make any sense.

frostz417 wrote: »

Cons:

Another con: we can’t play with friends in other factions. Some people don’t give a rats ass about faction loyalty they just want to PvP and have a fun time with their friends. Wether it be small scale or zerging, they don’t care about factions just play with friends, now this faction lock disables that since on most platforms vivec is the only campaign with people. Shor is dead 90% of the time and when it’s not it’s just one faction zerging down the entire map with 3 bars while the others have 1 or less bar.

If u are friends..decide on 1 faction and play there..easy peasy

How does my gem argument not make sense. If you’re a pve player who has multiple faction characters and you go to vivec to get rewards for 50 gems.. you can no longer do that if you have a lot of characters on different alliances. It will heavily impact the amount of stones you will no longer be able to acquire since main 30 day campaign is faction locked.
Also regarding your “just play the same faction” argument.
People have ranks, achievements on certain characters. You’re literally saying just forget about that and pick one faction to play. Yep makes total sense. Your ignorance and delusions is so absurd I’m not even going to argue with it.

simple go to a 7 day campaign and farm for your crystals with your alts from different factions

There is no nonCP 7 day campaign.

Rianai · May 2019

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

You either don;t play on PC-NA or are just choosing not to see.

Balanced population - The population has never been more unbalanced, EP is everywhere.

I must have missed that. Yesterday, EP was getting hammered. There is no reason the two other Alliances couldn't wipe them out if they would co-operate.

So the fix to issues caused by faction lock is cross-faction cooperation? Wouldn't this be easier to achive by letting players swap faction instead of expecting "faction-loyal" players from different sides to play together?

jaws343 · May 2019

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Cons:
imbalance of population when one faction is zerging down the only relevant campaign as the other 3 are abysmally dead making it impossible to play said faction.

This is what happens now with faction hopping..this is the main aspect that faction lock improves..

frostz417 wrote: »

Cons:

Another con:
Pve players who don’t care about faction loyalty and others suffer because now they lose out on transmutation crystals due to most players who don’t PvP just have all other factions and they enter vivec just to acquire tier 1-3 rewards for gems.
It’s the best way to get gems since all other ways aren’t nearly as beneficial as this.

This just doesent make any sense.

frostz417 wrote: »

Cons:

Another con: we can’t play with friends in other factions. Some people don’t give a rats ass about faction loyalty they just want to PvP and have a fun time with their friends. Wether it be small scale or zerging, they don’t care about factions just play with friends, now this faction lock disables that since on most platforms vivec is the only campaign with people. Shor is dead 90% of the time and when it’s not it’s just one faction zerging down the entire map with 3 bars while the others have 1 or less bar.

If u are friends..decide on 1 faction and play there..easy peasy

How does my gem argument not make sense. If you’re a pve player who has multiple faction characters and you go to vivec to get rewards for 50 gems.. you can no longer do that if you have a lot of characters on different alliances. It will heavily impact the amount of stones you will no longer be able to acquire since main 30 day campaign is faction locked.
Also regarding your “just play the same faction” argument.
People have ranks, achievements on certain characters. You’re literally saying just forget about that and pick one faction to play. Yep makes total sense. Your ignorance and delusions is so absurd I’m not even going to argue with it.

If achiements are more important thn playing with friends..then good friends...and as for your other cons?? could you explain those one better?

You, and every other pro-lock player, really miss the point of the playing with friends aspect.

Every time it is brought up, you guys say just pick an alliance to play together on. But you fail to realize that people can have multiple groups of friends, and many times, those friend groups do not overlap. If friend group A plays the 30day cp campaign on Red, and friend group B plays the 30 day cp campaign on Blue, it is then impossible to continue playing with both of these friend groups. And then you have to deal with Player 1 in friend group A has their own groups of friends. So let's say Player 1 has Group A they play Red with, and then Group C they play Yellow with, and Group D they play Blue with, all in the 30 day cp campaign. Player 1 now has to choose a friend group to play with, or, in this dumb faction lock argument, they have to convince potentially 60+ players to all pick a side so that they can play with them. It's stupid.

bulbousb16_ESO · May 2019

Rianai wrote: »

So the fix to issues caused by faction lock is cross-faction cooperation? Wouldn't this be easier to achive by letting players swap faction instead of expecting "faction-loyal" players from different sides to play together?

This is not an issue caused by faction lock. This is an issue caused by participation imbalance. In a three-sided war, if one side is winning, the other two should ally against it. It's basic strategy, not a problem that needs a drastic and game-breaking solution (faction-flopping).

snowmanflvb14_ESO · May 2019

RedTalon wrote: »

So pretty much cyro went back to how it was and the issues that happen original to drive down things and so on are happening, who would have guessed...right most of the forums

Guess will still stick with bgs for the most part

yet the populations seem to be pretty much if not slightly higher than they were prelock

Haashhtaag · May 2019

snowmanflvb14_ESO wrote: »

RedTalon wrote: »

So pretty much cyro went back to how it was and the issues that happen original to drive down things and so on are happening, who would have guessed...right most of the forums

Guess will still stick with bgs for the most part

yet the populations seem to be pretty much if not slightly higher than they were prelock

Are you talking overall pvp population? If so you’re wrong. Population of pvp has diminished. The pop cap used to be 300 per faction, it is now 150 per faction.

bulbousb16_ESO · May 2019

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Are you talking overall pvp population? If so you’re wrong. Population of pvp has diminished. The pop cap used to be 300 per faction, it is now 150 per faction.

Not 10 days ago, it wasn't.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · May 2019

snowmanflvb14_ESO wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Cons:
imbalance of population when one faction is zerging down the only relevant campaign as the other 3 are abysmally dead making it impossible to play said faction.

This is what happens now with faction hopping..this is the main aspect that faction lock improves..

frostz417 wrote: »

Cons:

Another con:
Pve players who don’t care about faction loyalty and others suffer because now they lose out on transmutation crystals due to most players who don’t PvP just have all other factions and they enter vivec just to acquire tier 1-3 rewards for gems.
It’s the best way to get gems since all other ways aren’t nearly as beneficial as this.

This just doesent make any sense.

frostz417 wrote: »

Cons:

Another con: we can’t play with friends in other factions. Some people don’t give a rats ass about faction loyalty they just want to PvP and have a fun time with their friends. Wether it be small scale or zerging, they don’t care about factions just play with friends, now this faction lock disables that since on most platforms vivec is the only campaign with people. Shor is dead 90% of the time and when it’s not it’s just one faction zerging down the entire map with 3 bars while the others have 1 or less bar.

If u are friends..decide on 1 faction and play there..easy peasy

How does my gem argument not make sense. If you’re a pve player who has multiple faction characters and you go to vivec to get rewards for 50 gems.. you can no longer do that if you have a lot of characters on different alliances. It will heavily impact the amount of stones you will no longer be able to acquire since main 30 day campaign is faction locked.
Also regarding your “just play the same faction” argument.
People have ranks, achievements on certain characters. You’re literally saying just forget about that and pick one faction to play. Yep makes total sense. Your ignorance and delusions is so absurd I’m not even going to argue with it.

simple go to a 7 day campaign and farm for your crystals with your alts from different factions

Wait ... so people are complaining that there aren’t enough transmute crystals? I deconstruct them daily. If anything it sounds like they need to be sellable because it blows my mind that this is a problem.

My main has 400 of them ready at all times and I’ve been deconstructing all the rest every day for as long as they’ve been giving them out.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · May 2019

ThePedge wrote: »

Pro: nothing

Con: I can't get transmutes on, or play some of my toons. And one faction I am forced into CP Campaign with insane lag and 2 minute loading screens.

Also anyone says it only takes a few hours to get a PvP ready toon is wrong. I can't get level 9 undaunted and 60/60 on my horse in 10 hours. Which all my current toons do.

I haven’t gotten to level 9 undaunted in 5 years, let alone 10 hours. Almost there. Bolgrul needs to up that XP!

THEDKEXPERIENCE · May 2019

Oh we understand it. We just don’t care.

1 - This game was always designed for you to pick a side. It’s a war. I picked one 5 years ago give or take, like I was supposed to.

2 - The salt coming from people who clearly don’t PVP is hysterical. There are hundreds of faction swappers on XBox alone who will be on yellow one hour and blue 3 hours later and red the next day. If you’re a hardcore player who actually cares about playing objectives - also like the game was intended - it makes it very hard to know who to trust. If this solves nothing but the issue of putting friendly siege on your own keep that’s good enough for me.

3 - I still don’t care.

Gnozo · May 2019

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Oh we understand it. We just don’t care.

1 - This game was always designed for you to pick a side. It’s a war. I picked one 5 years ago give or take, like I was supposed to.

2 - The salt coming from people who clearly don’t PVP is hysterical. There are hundreds of faction swappers on XBox alone who will be on yellow one hour and blue 3 hours later and red the next day. If you’re a hardcore player who actually cares about playing objectives - also like the game was intended - it makes it very hard to know who to trust. If this solves nothing but the issue of putting friendly siege on your own keep that’s good enough for me.

3 - I still don’t care.

Thats so ignorant against players who cant simply play with their friends now. Faction lock was gone for a reason and players are used to it. So many players even started playing after faction lock was removed. Simply bringing it back now just forces players to not play with the friends they made over years.

So hundreds of faction swappers? And you can literally remember all of them? *Doubt*
I guess its more like 10-20 on one mega server.... And you cry about

iris56 · May 2019

I don't have a problem with faction lock, but I do I have problems with the way it has been implemented. I have basically stopped cyrodiil because of it. Some ideas I have that would help:

1. Make the seven day rewards better. Most of the time seven day is way less active than 30 day CP. Its certainly not the only reason, but it would help lure people in. The amount of work is the same as 30 day for way less reward.
2. There needs to be a way to change factions of existing characters. I had 10 max CP characters, with fighters, mages, psijic, ect all completed that I'm going to have to delete and remake at somepoint. I've been working on one already, but the thought of 9 more makes me want to cry a little. I understand ZOS has said this is problematic because of the PVE questing, but perhaps they could look into making cyrodiil on the locked campaigns an account wide thing? Meaning all the characters reguardless of faction would enter into whatever faction had been selected for that campaign. Just a thought.
3. Consider faction locking for a shorter period of time. For example, for 24 hrs after your last login to cyrodiil you can't login to a different faction. It would stop the map flipping problems, but allow people more freedom for faction with a little planning ahead.

Just another last thought. Almost all the "spying" problems come from alt accounts. I can't see how faction lock helps at all with that regardless.

Vercingetorix · May 2019

PROS: You can't cheat anymore in the game.
CONS: Cheaters can't cheat and now have to earn their AP by playing loyally for their faction or not at all.

I see nothing wrong here. This is how it was at release and it never should have been removed in the first place. The game is BACK TO ITS INTENDED STATE. If you don't like Cyrodiil anymore, feel free to LEAVE.

Qbiken · May 2019

Vercingetorix wrote: »

PROS: You can't cheat anymore in the game.
CONS: Cheaters can't cheat and now have to earn their AP by playing loyally for their faction or not at all.

I see nothing wrong here. This is how it was at release and it never should have been removed in the first place. The game is BACK TO ITS INTENDED STATE. If you don't like Cyrodiil anymore, feel free to LEAVE.

The so called "faction cheaters"(playing on different alliances on same campaign has never been considered cheating by ZOS, and emptrading is usually made on 7day campaigns, not the 30 day ones) have less impact on the outcome of a campaign compared to the PvDoor/Nighcappers, change my mind.

Pink_E_808 · May 2019

I honestly don't care either way. I'm fiercely loyal to the Dominion and don't hop around, however, it doesn't bother me to see people that I fought alongside yesterday kill me today on their red or blue and I won't hesitate to kill them if I get the chance for the most part (though some of us know each other well enough that we'll try to avoid hitting each other if we can help it, lol). Spying is a part of any war, like it or not, and I personally find that it can make a day in Cyrodiil more interesting and fun, even if frustrating, too. I still remember the first time I joined in the chase from one of our gates all the way up to Farragut when one of our own took a scroll to hand over to the Pact. They got the scroll, and we had a blast getting it back. In the long run, it's just a game and I make the most of it in my own way, as other people do it theirs.

Thogard · May 2019

Pros:
1. the faction lock debates make it easy to tell which PvPers are relevant and which ones aren’t.

Cons:
1. can’t play with friends. The only way this isn’t a con is if you don’t have friends across multiple factions. If you don’t have friends across multiple factions, it’s probably because you’re a toxic faction loyalist

2. Can’t play my main in the only populated campaign.

3. Cross faction abuses still happen. The faction locks fixed nothing

4. The alliances have never been more imbalanced

5. If my faction has the whole map, forcing the other factions to log off, I can’t log on to another faction to find outnumbered fights

6. Can’t make new friends by grouping up later with talented opponents who I gain respect for after a fight

7. Can’t play for the “underpopulated” bonus except on a dead campaign

8. Emp was only sold on the 7 day campaign, not the 30 day. Now it’ll be even worse since relevant people can only push on 1/3 of their characters on populated campaigns

9. Did I mention how much harder it was to find fights?

10. Did I mention how dead the campaigns are compared to earlier?

11. Volundrung isn’t exactly helping.

laksikus · May 2019

Vercingetorix wrote: »

PROS: You can't cheat anymore in the game.
CONS: Cheaters can't cheat and now have to earn their AP by playing loyally for their faction or not at all.

I see nothing wrong here. This is how it was at release and it never should have been removed in the first place. The game is BACK TO ITS INTENDED STATE. If you don't like Cyrodiil anymore, feel free to LEAVE.

you could play all factions in one campaign at release. and thats hoe it should be.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · May 2019

Gnozo wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Oh we understand it. We just don’t care.

1 - This game was always designed for you to pick a side. It’s a war. I picked one 5 years ago give or take, like I was supposed to.

2 - The salt coming from people who clearly don’t PVP is hysterical. There are hundreds of faction swappers on XBox alone who will be on yellow one hour and blue 3 hours later and red the next day. If you’re a hardcore player who actually cares about playing objectives - also like the game was intended - it makes it very hard to know who to trust. If this solves nothing but the issue of putting friendly siege on your own keep that’s good enough for me.

3 - I still don’t care.

Thats so ignorant against players who cant simply play with their friends now. Faction lock was gone for a reason and players are used to it. So many players even started playing after faction lock was removed. Simply bringing it back now just forces players to not play with the friends they made over years.

So hundreds of faction swappers? And you can literally remember all of them? *Doubt*
I guess its more like 10-20 on one mega server.... And you cry about

10 to 20 people who all are leading 10 to 23 other people.

And you’re being equally ignorant against people who have always played the way the game was designed. So yeah, don’t care.

bulbousb16_ESO · May 2019

iris56 wrote: »

Just another last thought. Almost all the "spying" problems come from alt accounts. I can't see how faction lock helps at all with that regardless.

This is absolute nonsense. Are you telling me that you think that people actually spent money so they could have another account to dunk scrolls and drop Forward Camps in Cyrodiil? Instead of just using their other characters to do that for free?

The rationale for opposing faction lock dies a little more each day.

Jimmy_The_Fixer · May 2019

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

iris56 wrote: »

Just another last thought. Almost all the "spying" problems come from alt accounts. I can't see how faction lock helps at all with that regardless.

This is absolute nonsense. Are you telling me that you think that people actually spent money so they could have another account to dunk scrolls and drop Forward Camps in Cyrodiil? Instead of just using their other characters to do that for free?

The rationale for opposing faction lock dies a little more each day.

Spying is a massive waste of time, not worth the time it takes to go through two load screens. There’s no grand strategy in Cyro beyond flinging a giant pile of guys into the nearest emp keep so there’s nothing useful to do with the information that you’re supposedly getting.

And even then you don’t need to swap over, anyone who’s been pvping for a while can just whisper someone they know on the other side and ask them what’s going on.

ZOS_JesC · May 2019

Greetings, we've removed a few comments that were nonconstructive. This is a friendly reminder to keep comments constructive and on topic.