Pros and Cons of faction lock!

disintegr8

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I only have one PvP character, so faction lock won't affect me most of the time, however, it'll affect me the next time I need to get Vigor/Caltrops on an alt that's not in the same faction. It's really going to suck the next time there's a double AP event, and the only campaign I can join with my new alts are those usually-empty 7-day campaigns. (Maybe the event will make them less empty, hopefully.) I know I can do Battlegrounds, too, but it's not my preferred way of doing PvP.

Why not simply take your new toon into the below lvl 50 campaign and easily have vigor/caltrops before you hit level 50?

That way your vet level toons are not interfering. I've done it with a lot of my characters.

beadabow

Pro- I think more players with pvp characters spread across all three alliances will want to play multiple campaigns simultaneously for things like skyshard hunting, quickly getting easy skill points for the lower ranks of pvp, and the alliance war skills of vigor and caltrops for their mostly "pve" characters. It's what I do. I have always been a DC faction loyalist, but have recently been going to other campaigns on my AD and EP characters for the above reasons. In doing so, I discovered there are a lot great and friendly people in other campaigns from all factions. I enjoy the social aspect of pvp, and am not too concerned with the scoring, objectives, or what faction is winning, so long as the people I am playing with are having a good time and laughing...that's why I play. In summary, the reintroduction of faction locks inspired me to try new campaigns under all three factions.

Con- I don't see any downside to faction locking campaigns at this time.

idk

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

idk wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Ok i feel you.

Do you have a solution in mind that would help balance the factions out outside of faction lock. And any solution to other problems like alt accounts double crossing?

Sorry, but it seems obvious. It is either no faction locks, or choose one campaign for faction locks, or offer a faction change option. Zos chose none of that. Zos chose to avoid logic.

Ok but this doesent help balancing factions and faction hoping...

No it does not.

First of all it does nothing for balancing the factions and there is no reason to think it would. If anything we should expect a disparity to be stronger now than before.

Further, nothing I said that you had just replied to harms faction locks. Your comment seems to support the Machiavellian approach, that as long as you get what you want you are not concerned about the impact. So you really just created this thread to tell us that faction locks is good and justified because you want it.

snowmanflvb14_ESO

frostz417 wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Cons:
imbalance of population when one faction is zerging down the only relevant campaign as the other 3 are abysmally dead making it impossible to play said faction.

This is what happens now with faction hopping..this is the main aspect that faction lock improves..

frostz417 wrote: »

Cons:

Another con:
Pve players who don’t care about faction loyalty and others suffer because now they lose out on transmutation crystals due to most players who don’t PvP just have all other factions and they enter vivec just to acquire tier 1-3 rewards for gems.
It’s the best way to get gems since all other ways aren’t nearly as beneficial as this.

This just doesent make any sense.

frostz417 wrote: »

Cons:

Another con: we can’t play with friends in other factions. Some people don’t give a rats ass about faction loyalty they just want to PvP and have a fun time with their friends. Wether it be small scale or zerging, they don’t care about factions just play with friends, now this faction lock disables that since on most platforms vivec is the only campaign with people. Shor is dead 90% of the time and when it’s not it’s just one faction zerging down the entire map with 3 bars while the others have 1 or less bar.

If u are friends..decide on 1 faction and play there..easy peasy

How does my gem argument not make sense. If you’re a pve player who has multiple faction characters and you go to vivec to get rewards for 50 gems.. you can no longer do that if you have a lot of characters on different alliances. It will heavily impact the amount of stones you will no longer be able to acquire since main 30 day campaign is faction locked.
Also regarding your “just play the same faction” argument.
People have ranks, achievements on certain characters. You’re literally saying just forget about that and pick one faction to play. Yep makes total sense. Your ignorance and delusions is so absurd I’m not even going to argue with it.

simple go to a 7 day campaign and farm for your crystals with your alts from different factions

snowmanflvb14_ESO

idk wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Pros. Some of us with alts will get more use out of our alts once again. There is nothing in the ToS that makes this a violation. Alt accounts are great for scroll stealing and Zos did nothing to change this. What makes this even better is players will have no idea who's alt account it is.

I have been saying that faction locks will not stop what people claim is happening without faction locks. But Zos is great at giving people what they want instead of actually fixing what the problem is because that takes more work.

Pros. it will bring back guilds forming alliances across factions to help with Emp Farming.

Cons. The first and most outspoken reason Zos gave for reinstating faction lock was that people asked for it. They did not provide any statement that they saw exploitation that had a great effect on the campaigns.

Again, Zos gave the people who requested this exactly what they asked for, alt armies.

Can u share what the problem is exactly.. would love to know what problem isnt fixed and was satiated by adding faction locks.

Oops. Scroll stealing with an alt account is not impacted by faction lock. It is the easiest exploit in the game The second easiest it spying which is the other use for an alt account that groups that formed from zone struggled with back when we had faction lock before.

It will be glorious since there were quite a few threads that falsely stated faction locks were needed to stop the scroll stealing but ignored the realities, or were oblivious to them. ToS has nothing to prevent this and is a big reason Zos did not make exploiting the focus of this change. They know it will not stop anything.

BTW, alt accounts were used back when we had faction lock.

so play on all your alt accounts then

Trueblue

Rygonix wrote: »

One thing I noticed is that DC has been kicked back to its true 'underdog' state it was in before One Tamriel. In all 30-day campaigns DC is behind by thousands of points, and only when streamers or good pvp guilds run do they start taking anything more than their tri-keeps.

Not true... non CP - 30 day - EP first, DC second, AP third. After fraction LOCK more ppl play on DC site... Lock site is best what Devs give to this game except expansion.

dsalter

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

-Forcing a race - for people that dont have "Any Race, Any Alliance", they are forced to play certain 3 races that belong to the faction...this one is somewhat problematic and i can see it as a con and decently big con if i may add.

this crappy restriction should have been lifted years ago but they kept it in because MMMMM YEEEES MONEY and tbh it massively impacts the core of the game, keep the crappy imperials but the core 9 races are game changes for a majority of the game and shouldn't be locked behind a paywall, this makes them pay to win to an extent.

edit: this is coming from someone who has had any race any alliance since the BETA

zaria

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Let me preface i play from the time faction lock was default setting. And im very pro faction lock. Recent outcry on forums actually baffles me to a point i considered to be wrong about the whole thing.

I want to have CIVIL disscussion about it and list pros and cons..or at least what you feel pros and cons are AND ARGUMENT IT.

Ill start:

Pros:

-Balanced Population - Forcing people into 1 faction creates a natural division of playerbase and artiffically distributes players to a more equal state, WITHOUT giving players a chance to faction-hop and break the equilibrium for the sake of overnumbering other factions and reducing their power and ability to attack/defend that way.

-Faction loyalty - This one is somewhat moot as some dont care about the story of it all so they wouldnt neccesarily care about the faction, but for those who do care it is a great way of siding with the that they think should "win" the war.

-No power-hopping - People wont be able to go to a currently winning faction in order to power-farm AP by crushing other alliance further into the ground. This way LEVEL OF COMPETITION THROUGHOUT THE DAY/NIGHT IS MORE BALANCED.

-No "spies" - There wont be people who will abuse zone chat to feed information about your faction to enemy in order to better anticipate and prepare for an upcoming attack.

Cons:

-Forcing a race - for people that dont have "Any Race, Any Alliance", they are forced to play certain 3 races that belong to the faction...this one is somewhat problematic and i can see it as a con and decently big con if i may add.

Wierd thing people mention:

"I cant play with my firends" - I dont understant this at all... If u are friends, why cant you decide on a faction and play there together. Creating a battle ready Cyrodiil toon is extremely easy and it takes like 10h of playtime...ESSPECIALLY if u have friends to speed up the grind.

Discuss. But please be civil and argument your statements.

Blood for the Pact!

I agree with your above points but not the last: Good example on why it creates problem is if you are mostly PvE and belong to guilds primarly for sosial reasons / trials but they are in different factions and do PvP events.
Casual PvP tend to use Sotha Sil.
is in this setting myself, mostly play Khajiits so used AD. But do trials with an guild who also do pvp for EP.
Had made necromancer EP for this had it not been for faction lock as other 9 characters are AD.
Another guild I'm in is AD and also uses Sotha Sil.

its mostly an issue for players who see pvp as secondary.

Gnozo

Cons:

Cross faction friendships got a really huge hit, nearly destroyed.

Two examples Here:

Our group plays on DC Side. We made a new friend in EP side who created a DC char to join us. He joins us a lot and even joined our Guild. Even tho, all of his Main Chars are in EP.

Thanks to faction lock he is now forced to to always play on EP side cause thats where his main characters are. We literally cant play with him anymore. Except on the 7 days campaign. That we tried and after 1 hour we quit due to No one to Fight in Prime Time. We even took an enemy home keep without anyone showing up. Thats not PvP, thats pve.

Another Friend of mine just returned to the game. He left long time ago when we both played in AD Side. As i said i moved to DC with my PvP chars and AD chars are now for PvE stuff. That being said we cant play PvP together anymore. He mainly plays on AD so creating an DC char is Impossible cause his raid Guild is AD. And i cant play with my AD chars cause my main is DC.

ZOS literally locks me out to play with my friends from time to time. And dont come up with the 7 days campaigns. They are dead. Taking a home keep in prime time without any defender showing up is more then boring.

Cant see any pros Here....

Tommy_The_Gun

Pros:
- Almost no zone chat spying.
- Almoat no scroll troling.
- No team switching to the winning team.
- Less playing for AP, more playing for campaign and final scores.

Cons:
- Night & Morrning cap PvD still affects campaign scoring & potenial points way too much. This needs to be looked at. Perhaps population based scorring & potenial points can be a solution.
- Less transmute crystals - tbh. Not a "con" for me personally as when I played for one faction I got way more crystals than I could use and my inventory got cluttered.

Drdeath20

With faction locks im sure the score will be less close but thats not an exploit. People who want faction lock were getting sick of the exploiting.

Spies, alt's just for returning scrolls, overstacking 1 alliances population, and players manipulating the scores to artificially keep it close.

RedTalon

So pretty much cyro went back to how it was and the issues that happen original to drive down things and so on are happening, who would have guessed...right most of the forums

Guess will still stick with bgs for the most part

JumpmanLane

I’m only play EP because I only play MagDk as no other class really excites me enough to level up another toon much less level up another toon’s HORSE lol.

I truly despise exactly half of EP and have them on my kill on sight list. No greater joy have I known than to CHASE down and kill some EP sap playing on another faction. And YEAH them fools ran. And yeah they died.

I’m gonna miss that (

Mannix1958

Con: Addressing OP's not understanding of "Not being able to play with friends"

Most of my characters are Pact & I belong to a PvP guild that is Pact.

Now I have 16 maxed level characters and I have friends in guilds who are Dominion or Covenant. I went to play with a friend/guildie who was AD. Got the message my other EP toons would be locked out for 30 days... So I never joined him


The faction lock would not bother me at all if there were more servers.

As it is I'll PvP less....still get in my EP play. But the other factions not much if any at all.

Mannix1958

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Pros:
- Almost no zone chat spying.
- Almoat no scroll troling.
- No team switching to the winning team.
- Less playing for AP, more playing for campaign and final scores.

Cons:
- Night & Morrning cap PvD still affects campaign scoring & potenial points way too much. This needs to be looked at. Perhaps population based scorring & potenial points can be a solution.
- Less transmute crystals - tbh. Not a "con" for me personally as when I played for one faction I got way more crystals than I could use and my inventory got cluttered.

Why is playing for AP a bad thing?

Ragnaroek93

Faction lock needs to be removed again or they need to give us alliance change tokens.

Rianai

Pros:
nothing

trolls still troll
spies were never a serious issue/is still possible
players that don't care about the factions/score still won't care

Cons:
worse population imbalance
-> leads to less caring about the campaign
players from the loosing sides loging off or switching campaign to join the winning side
players with chars on multiple factions can't play all of them on an active campaign
many players are not able to play with their friends
...

That's coming from a player who only plays on one side btw.

Arjuska

Pros: roleplayers can be at peace, because they think this helps their issues somehow

Cons: since One Tamriel people have been free to do content (PvE & PvP) with every alliance and friendships were more easily formed. Before that inter-alliance friendships, at least for me, were mostly in smallscale/dueller circles, which didn't care about score and such anyway. Lot of guilds aren't strictly alliance based anymore.

Now they decided to slap barbed wire between those friendships again and you wonder why it causes frustration?

Gnozo

Arjuska wrote: »

Pros: roleplayers can be at peace, because they think this helps their issues somehow

Cons: since One Tamriel people have been free to do content (PvE & PvP) with every alliance and friendships were more easily formed. Before that inter-alliance friendships, at least for me, were mostly in smallscale/dueller circles, which didn't care about score and such anyway. Lot of guilds aren't strictly alliance based anymore.

Now they decided to slap barbed wire between those friendships again and you wonder why it causes frustration?

Ye, lost some Friends to this. I mean not really lost but we cant play in pvp together anymore with the characters we created for this particular reason.

Arjuska

Exactly. In my case: I play in a PvP guild in no-cp. Our current alliance is DC since the fights were usually better since AD already had many guild groups running.

AD is my 'main' faction. I've played it the most and have lot of friends there. If I want to play with my old AD friends, I need to go to Vivec, which is ofc CP as well, so I need separate builds and all such hassle. I also have friends that play only in CP DC, but if I go DC on a CP campaign it makes 8 of my AD characters and many classes useless for PvP outside battlegrounds. So I basically need to choose which friends I like more.

But hey. No spies right xD

Gnozo

Arjuska wrote: »

Exactly. In my case: I play in a PvP guild in no-cp. Our current alliance is DC since the fights were usually better since AD already had many guild groups running.

AD is my 'main' faction. I've played it the most and have lot of friends there. If I want to play with my old AD friends, I need to go to Vivec, which is ofc CP as well, so I need separate builds and all such hassle. I also have friends that play only in CP DC, but if I go DC on a CP campaign it makes 8 of my AD characters and many classes useless for PvP outside battlegrounds. So I basically need to choose which friends I like more.

But hey. No spies right xD

Wrong. Ppl who want to spy will still find a way.

They just ask their friends from the other alliance what is going on in Zone chat.

Arjuska

Gnozo wrote: »

Arjuska wrote: »

But hey. No spies right xD

Wrong. Ppl who want to spy will still find a way.

They just ask their friends from the other alliance what is going on in Zone chat.

I know, was just sarcasm. It's amazing how people think that you need to relog for information that is so easy to get with a whisper or screenshot.

Gnozo

What i also find funny is that, judging by the comments in the 100 of threads about this, its only a few players per mega server who abuse this system.

"Well known pug Leader"
"I can give you their names"
"Everybody knows them"

So basicly maybe 10 players per mega Server where spying, Trolling with scroll and "farming" AP.

And by this ZOS decided to put faction lock. Making the game worse for hundreds of players. Outstanding move.

Tattooo

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Pros:
- Almost no zone chat spying.
- Almoat no scroll troling.
- No team switching to the winning team.
- Less playing for AP, more playing for campaign and final scores.

Cons:
- Night & Morrning cap PvD still affects campaign scoring & potenial points way too much. This needs to be looked at. Perhaps population based scorring & potenial points can be a solution.
- Less transmute crystals - tbh. Not a "con" for me personally as when I played for one faction I got way more crystals than I could use and my inventory got cluttered.

ye dirty ballgroups trolling with scrolls, UNACCEPTABLE !

Hallothiel

Seriously, if all those saying that they want to play with friends from different factions all went to the non-locked 7 day one, then it wouldn’t be ‘dead’ anymore, you can all have fun and everybody wins!

Rianai

Hallothiel wrote: »

Seriously, if all those saying that they want to play with friends from different factions all went to the non-locked 7 day one, then it wouldn’t be ‘dead’ anymore, you can all have fun and everybody wins!

The PvP population isn't big enough to populate 3 campaigns at once. Even more so outside of prime time. And there is no unlocked noCP campaign. And even if there were enough players on paper, it would require too much organisation between many random players that often don't even know each other, which simply isn't realistic.

Gnozo

Hallothiel wrote: »

Seriously, if all those saying that they want to play with friends from different factions all went to the non-locked 7 day one, then it wouldn’t be ‘dead’ anymore, you can all have fun and everybody wins!

But this wont happen

Qbiken

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Pros:
- Almost no zone chat spying.
- Almoat no scroll troling.
- No team switching to the winning team.
- Less playing for AP, more playing for campaign and final scores.

Cons:
- Night & Morrning cap PvD still affects campaign scoring & potenial points way too much. This needs to be looked at. Perhaps population based scorring & potenial points can be a solution.
- Less transmute crystals - tbh. Not a "con" for me personally as when I played for one faction I got way more crystals than I could use and my inventory got cluttered.

I would be more ok with faction lock if you actually got some decent rewards for winning. As it stands now, AP is the only "decent" reward there is.

And the PvDoor aspects needs to be adjusted. Capping the map off primetime shouldn't have the most impact on the final result on a campaign.

ThePedge

Pro: nothing

Con: I can't get transmutes on, or play some of my toons. And one faction I am forced into CP Campaign with insane lag and 2 minute loading screens.

Also anyone says it only takes a few hours to get a PvP ready toon is wrong. I can't get level 9 undaunted and 60/60 on my horse in 10 hours. Which all my current toons do.

vgabor

They approached this whole faction lock on the wrong way... What it should be: when you enter a campaign first time with any of your character, you have to choose which faction you going to play in this campaign and then until the end of that campaign all of your character will play for that faction in that campaign. This would solve faction hopping while still allowing to play with any of your character.