Racial passives are the complete wrong way to go about this.

josiahva · February 2019

Take a look around this forum with everyone arguing about which race should get which passives. People are basing their race choices on the passives available. No one is completely happy with the passives for any given race. As others have said, race should be a completely cosmetic choice...that way people can play the race they actually want to play. Sure, this might lead to a reduction in the "beast races"(or maybe not) but in reality...those races are rather rare outside of their zones anyway, so this would reflect the in-game reality rather well. People should just be able to choose whatever "character passives" they want(allow them choose whatever 3 they want), because regardless of what generalizations in expertise a given race has, there are always outliers...and as your character is a hero in the game...they are already an outlier. I for one am tired of trying to make my characters look halfway decent because the base race is one I am choosing strictly for their passives and would otherwise never play...it really makes no sense whatsoever that people are playing races they dont like just to get some passive or another...and then its even worse because the BIS DPS, tank, or healer is locked behind an alliance you may not have access to without buying the any race any alliance pack(not that I care about BIS anything myself, but many do) The whole system is completely stupid and no on is playing the game like they want because of it. The same holds true for class...class should be determined by 3 basic skill lines you pick....not picking a class because you like one particular skill line and hate the rest.

martijnlv40 · February 2019

I completely agree, from a mmo standpoint. The singleplayer elder scrolls games don't work with this though, so I don't think everyone will be happy with this again. There's no pleasing everyone.

idk · February 2019

First of all, paragraphs would help bring your point home so much better and make it easier to read. It is why they were invented.

Second, you are really not correct. Many of us are pleased with the balance and choices begin presented. What is BiS and second or even third choice does not fall very apart and that is a very good thing

Further, you have obviously missed that few has suggested doing away with the passives as most are really just suggesting something different. So your suggestion probably falls very fast as a great many of us like the flavor of racial passives vs the boring choices if there were to be removed. It is very TES like.

Seraphayel · February 2019

I am fine with racials and I am fine with 99% of the changes.

The complainers are mostly complaining because their overperforming race is losing some power and drops to the 2nd place or isn't 20% ahead anymore. Besides that I think the vast majority of players either likes the changes or doesn't really care.

If you pick your race because of racial bonuses and not because of visuals or lore, it's your fault when your race all of sudden gets adjusted and you aren't satisfied anymore.

I think ZOS did a great job at balancing (most) racials.

KhajiitFelix · February 2019

Yay another discussion about this topic....

Kulvar · February 2019

Racials should not be about flat bonuses, they should be full of lore-friendly flavor and have barely any consequence on combat balance.

josiahva · February 2019

idk wrote: »

First of all, paragraphs would help bring your point home so much better and make it easier to read. It is why they were invented.

Second, you are really not correct. Many of us are pleased with the balance and choices begin presented. What is BiS and second or even third choice does not fall very apart and that is a very good thing

Further, you have obviously missed that few has suggested doing away with the passives as most are really just suggesting something different. So your suggestion probably falls very fast as a great many of us like the flavor of racial passives vs the boring choices if there were to be removed. It is very TES like.

Paragraphs dont make any difference for reading something. I learned to read by starting at the left and going to the right, then dropping down a line and doing it again...paragraphs are irrelevant and are "required" only when changing subjects, there are a lot of worthless rules to paragraphs, as an example: 5 sentences are required before starting a new paragraph...so yeah, dont care about arbitrary paragraph rules that do nothing, especially because this isn't English class, its a forum post.(Addressed this subject, moving on to a new paragraph now)

By "most of us" do you mean you and 3 other people? Like I said...I could care less about BIS myself...but there is such a thing because they insist on racial passives to begin with...1-3% in the current meta is after all 500-2000 DPS...multiply that out for a trial x10 and that is a significant amount, significant enough that trials groups will take someone along or not based on race alone.(Subject changing again, so again a new paragraph is required)

What flavor would that be? You think that a 15% experience gain for X weapon skill line is some type of flavor? People are choosing their race based on passives...do you truly approve of that? If I want to play an Argonian...but I want to do the max DPS possible...oh wait, those two desires are incompatible because of "flavor". There is no such thing as shadowscales after all because it doesn't fit the general Argonian theme. Now in my example, if you chose DPS related passives and Argonian for the race, the game would classify you as a Shadowscale(or whatever magicka equivalent) and once the game classified you as that racial sub-type, the 4th "flavor" passive(as an example the current "Amphibian" passive would be changed to "Shadowscale" Passive) and instead of 50% swim speed you would instead get a stealth radius reduction or something. This type of approach would not be boring...it would open many more "flavors" for however you wanted to play.

Lughlongarm · February 2019

Don't agree at all, what makes RPGS interesting is the ability to make choices, and choices are only choices when they have consequences. Giving races whatever passives they want is the same as not giving them passives at all(what will be purpose?). I also play GW2 where races doesn't matter, and that aspect of the game is exactly how it sounds, doesn't matter.

The whole so called problem you are describing doesn't even exist, the forum community is probably happy with like 7 out of the 10 races and let me remind that the forums represent a very vocal minority out of the ESO player base.

Most players don't care if their dps will be 1% higher or lower in a perfect group buff environment while doing a dps race on a static target that doesn't fight back.

idk · February 2019

josiahva wrote: »

idk wrote: »

First of all, paragraphs would help bring your point home so much better and make it easier to read. It is why they were invented.

Second, you are really not correct. Many of us are pleased with the balance and choices begin presented. What is BiS and second or even third choice does not fall very apart and that is a very good thing

Further, you have obviously missed that few has suggested doing away with the passives as most are really just suggesting something different. So your suggestion probably falls very fast as a great many of us like the flavor of racial passives vs the boring choices if there were to be removed. It is very TES like.

Paragraphs dont make any difference for reading something. I learned to read by starting at the left and going to the right, then dropping down a line and doing it again...paragraphs are irrelevant and are "required" only when changing subjects, there are a lot of worthless rules to paragraphs, as an example: 5 sentences are required before starting a new paragraph...so yeah, dont care about arbitrary paragraph rules that do nothing, especially because this isn't English class, its a forum post.(Addressed this subject, moving on to a new paragraph now)

By "most of us" do you mean you and 3 other people? Like I said...I could care less about BIS myself...but there is such a thing because they insist on racial passives to begin with...1-3% in the current meta is after all 500-2000 DPS...multiply that out for a trial x10 and that is a significant amount, significant enough that trials groups will take someone along or not based on race alone.(Subject changing again, so again a new paragraph is required)

What flavor would that be? You think that a 15% experience gain for X weapon skill line is some type of flavor? People are choosing their race based on passives...do you truly approve of that? If I want to play an Argonian...but I want to do the max DPS possible...oh wait, those two desires are incompatible because of "flavor". There is no such thing as shadowscales after all because it doesn't fit the general Argonian theme. Now in my example, if you chose DPS related passives and Argonian for the race, the game would classify you as a Shadowscale(or whatever magicka equivalent) and once the game classified you as that racial sub-type, the 4th "flavor" passive(as an example the current "Amphibian" passive would be changed to "Shadowscale" Passive) and instead of 50% swim speed you would instead get a stealth radius reduction or something. This type of approach would not be boring...it would open many more "flavors" for however you wanted to play.

LOL. I will refrain from totally schooling you on the purpose of paragraphs since you seem to think they are only when changing subjects which is clearly wrong.

From the rest of your post it is clear you have not been reading the forums very well, maybe a few threads with specific focus since your comment that it is me and only 3 other people is just absurd and false.

You are welcome to your opinion but it is clearly not a popular one. You not have to take my word on it. Considering the lack of interest this thread has received it is without doubt there is very little support for the idea presented in the OP. Only two have provide their support in the past few hours, most just moved on to the next thread.

hyraak · February 2019

I kind of understand the point the OP was getting at, however completely getting rid of the passives or letting people pick the three they want won't be good at all. Considering most people would pick the argonian resourceful passive, the max stam or max mag passive, and the khajiit crit passive?

Point being, there will still be BiS whether they are preset to a specific race or not.

Now, if we take them away completely then all it does is take away from the unique feel of each race. My suggestion would be to (if we are talking about taking away passives) give each race a few actionable abilities or a race specific ultimate.

I don't really see an issue with racial passives, but I'm not against them mixing things up every once in a while.

idk · February 2019

hyraak wrote: »

I kind of understand the point the OP was getting at, however completely getting rid of the passives or letting people pick the three they want won't be good at all. Considering most people would pick the argonian resourceful passive, the max stam or max mag passive, and the khajiit crit passive?

Point being, there will still be BiS whether they are preset to a specific race or not.

Now, if we take them away completely then all it does is take away from the unique feel of each race. My suggestion would be to (if we are talking about taking away passives) give each race a few actionable abilities or a race specific ultimate.

I don't really see an issue with racial passives, but I'm not against them mixing things up every once in a while.

Zos already considered the idea of removing appearance from passives a couple years ago. When they originally announced they were going to add race change the original thought they were considering was our appearance would not change but we would select the passive from a different race.

Obviously that is not how race change ended up so they did decide against decoupling passives from the race which is in line with their statements concerning the current balance pass on passives.

josiahva · February 2019

idk wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

idk wrote: »

First of all, paragraphs would help bring your point home so much better and make it easier to read. It is why they were invented.

Second, you are really not correct. Many of us are pleased with the balance and choices begin presented. What is BiS and second or even third choice does not fall very apart and that is a very good thing

Further, you have obviously missed that few has suggested doing away with the passives as most are really just suggesting something different. So your suggestion probably falls very fast as a great many of us like the flavor of racial passives vs the boring choices if there were to be removed. It is very TES like.

Paragraphs dont make any difference for reading something. I learned to read by starting at the left and going to the right, then dropping down a line and doing it again...paragraphs are irrelevant and are "required" only when changing subjects, there are a lot of worthless rules to paragraphs, as an example: 5 sentences are required before starting a new paragraph...so yeah, dont care about arbitrary paragraph rules that do nothing, especially because this isn't English class, its a forum post.(Addressed this subject, moving on to a new paragraph now)

By "most of us" do you mean you and 3 other people? Like I said...I could care less about BIS myself...but there is such a thing because they insist on racial passives to begin with...1-3% in the current meta is after all 500-2000 DPS...multiply that out for a trial x10 and that is a significant amount, significant enough that trials groups will take someone along or not based on race alone.(Subject changing again, so again a new paragraph is required)

What flavor would that be? You think that a 15% experience gain for X weapon skill line is some type of flavor? People are choosing their race based on passives...do you truly approve of that? If I want to play an Argonian...but I want to do the max DPS possible...oh wait, those two desires are incompatible because of "flavor". There is no such thing as shadowscales after all because it doesn't fit the general Argonian theme. Now in my example, if you chose DPS related passives and Argonian for the race, the game would classify you as a Shadowscale(or whatever magicka equivalent) and once the game classified you as that racial sub-type, the 4th "flavor" passive(as an example the current "Amphibian" passive would be changed to "Shadowscale" Passive) and instead of 50% swim speed you would instead get a stealth radius reduction or something. This type of approach would not be boring...it would open many more "flavors" for however you wanted to play.

LOL. I will refrain from totally schooling you on the purpose of paragraphs since you seem to think they are only when changing subjects which is clearly wrong.

From the rest of your post it is clear you have not been reading the forums very well, maybe a few threads with specific focus since your comment that it is me and only 3 other people is just absurd and false.

You are welcome to your opinion but it is clearly not a popular one. You not have to take my word on it. Considering the lack of interest this thread has received it is without doubt there is very little support for the idea presented in the OP. Only two have provide their support in the past few hours, most just moved on to the next thread.

Please, school me on paragraphs. In general the rules are:

When you start in on a new topic
When you skip to a new time
When you skip to a new place
When a new person begins to speak
When you want to produce a dramatic effect
Aim for three to five or more sentences per paragraph(I was taught 5 sentences per paragraph is mandatory)

Did you learn something different in english class?

Maybe I should start a new paragrpah each sentence.

Would that make it easier for you to read?

As for my comment on you and three other people, that was obviously exaggeration. For you to claim that the majority is happy with racial passives the way they are(or the way ZOS will make them in the future) is patently ridiculous and false. The majority, or at least a plurality will ALWAYS be unhappy with some aspect of any given race's passives. That is the truth of the matter, this is easily solved by letting people choose their own passives.

You can't even judge whether the majority agrees or disagrees with my position on this. I didn't include a poll, and since regardless of what I suggest or say here, the idea of removing racial passives and replacing them with passives chosen by individuals is not even something that ZOS has put up for debate, and so it may not be worth their time to even comment because nothing will come of it anyway. The whole point of my post was to point out that no matter what ZOS does with racial passives most will be either neutral or unhappy...which makes the whole race-based passives the wrong way to go about it(hence the title).

People go on and on about "flavor" and "immersion", but in the end I will bet very few people think of themselves as an Imperial or Argonian or Altmer or Orc when playing this game.(Aside from those who use the game to actually roleplay...and from what I have seen in game those are probably less than 5%, and those who do aren't interested in passives one way or the other.)

zaria · February 2019

martijnlv40 wrote: »

I completely agree, from a mmo standpoint. The singleplayer elder scrolls games don't work with this though, so I don't think everyone will be happy with this again. There's no pleasing everyone.

Racials in the old games was an starting bonus and did not matter at high levels as you got up to 100 in relevant skills and attributes. ESO flip this around and make it an end game bonus in an multiplayer game.

Well its to late to do anything about this now, I say current changes is an step in the right direction.

DoobZ69 · February 2019

I agree with the OP. These terrible passives force racial choice and restrict flexibility in characters. Some people like that they should choose a Breton but not a Bosmer for a Magicka build. Some people don't. If there were no passives the former could still use the Breton for a Magicka build and the latter could pick a Bosmer. If they could both do those roles then it wouldn't be an issue either. Why some would prefer a forced situation where a race is shoe-horned into specific play style is beyond me.
There are ways to make every race equal and balanced for every role without breaking lore. [snip] It is that way in SWTOR and is not an issue. There's no reason it would be in ESO.
I've made peace with tank=DK, healer=templar. I'll make peace with race=-specific role. But it isn't "play how you want". It's "push *** up hill if not playing how you should"

[edited for bashing]

Koronach · February 2019

zaria wrote: »

martijnlv40 wrote: »

I completely agree, from a mmo standpoint. The singleplayer elder scrolls games don't work with this though, so I don't think everyone will be happy with this again. There's no pleasing everyone.

Racials in the old games was an starting bonus and did not matter at high levels as you got up to 100 in relevant skills and attributes. ESO flip this around and make it an end game bonus in an multiplayer game.

Well its to late to do anything about this now, I say current changes is an step in the right direction.

I think the Argonian passives are trash, all but the potion passive is aimed at healing. How does that scream diversity? Not to mention it goes against everything Argonians were built on in past games besides the dumbed down lolSkyrim.

zaria · February 2019

Koronach wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

martijnlv40 wrote: »

I completely agree, from a mmo standpoint. The singleplayer elder scrolls games don't work with this though, so I don't think everyone will be happy with this again. There's no pleasing everyone.

Racials in the old games was an starting bonus and did not matter at high levels as you got up to 100 in relevant skills and attributes. ESO flip this around and make it an end game bonus in an multiplayer game.

Well its to late to do anything about this now, I say current changes is an step in the right direction.

I think the Argonian passives are trash, all but the potion passive is aimed at healing. How does that scream diversity? Not to mention it goes against everything Argonians were built on in past games besides the dumbed down lolSkyrim.

They are weak for damage yes and removal of the healing received was unneeded.
However its unrelated to my post that ESO racials has nothing to do with TES games.
The only lore friendly part is that they mostly matches the racial description but even Skyrim manages that.

Darkonflare15 · February 2019

Koronach wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

martijnlv40 wrote: »

I completely agree, from a mmo standpoint. The singleplayer elder scrolls games don't work with this though, so I don't think everyone will be happy with this again. There's no pleasing everyone.

Racials in the old games was an starting bonus and did not matter at high levels as you got up to 100 in relevant skills and attributes. ESO flip this around and make it an end game bonus in an multiplayer game.

Well its to late to do anything about this now, I say current changes is an step in the right direction.

I think the Argonian passives are trash, all but the potion passive is aimed at healing. How does that scream diversity? Not to mention it goes against everything Argonians were built on in past games besides the dumbed down lolSkyrim.

Stop it. No it doesn't. Everything Argonians had fit the game that they were in. Most of the stuff was resist disease , resist poison, and water breathing. Everything else was a few starting stats that every race can obtain. None of the stats are even in this game. You cannot use water breathing since we cannot go under water. That only leaves the resistances and histskin that was added by Skyrim yes the game you insulted is the only game except ESO that gave Argonians something other than we giant humanoid lizards that can breathe under water. That was Argonians only identy. At least in this game they can be the restorative race.

IINordoxII · February 2019

Flat bonuses rather than percent based are a good step in the right direction but I agree with OP on a few points, the first being that regardless of the changes making the passives overall “better” than before they are still too strong and way too big of a factor in dictating play style.

For just one example, Nord is still a tank race, so while the mechanics changed slightly, the role diversity that was proposed as a goal for this rebalance is completely absent.

Khajit did get some flexibility for Magicka or stamina builds but most races are still as one dimensional as before. Yes you can go against the grain but it’s still gonna be an uphill battle if you wanna play a Bosmer Magicka build or a Breton Stamina build which is unfortunate.

Even if you don’t care about min/maxing no one wants to feel like you’re gimped just for playing a race who’s lore or looks you prefer.

Turelus · February 2019

idk wrote: »

LOL. I will refrain from totally schooling you on the purpose of paragraphs since you seem to think they are only when changing subjects which is clearly wrong.

josiahva wrote: »

Please, school me on paragraphs. In general the rules are:

Narthalion · February 2019

IINordoxII wrote: »

Flat bonuses rather than percent based are a good step in the right direction but I agree with OP on a few points, the first being that regardless of the changes making the passives overall “better” than before they are still too strong and way too big of a factor in dictating play style.

For just one example, Nord is still a tank race, so while the mechanics changed slightly, the role diversity that was proposed as a goal for this rebalance is completely absent.

Khajit did get some flexibility for Magicka or stamina builds but most races are still as one dimensional as before. Yes you can go against the grain but it’s still gonna be an uphill battle if you wanna play a Bosmer Magicka build or a Breton Stamina build which is unfortunate.

Even if you don’t care about min/maxing no one wants to feel like you’re gimped just for playing a race who’s lore or looks you prefer.

Strongly agree with this.

While I would rather have two sets of passives for each race (one set for magicka, one stamina, picking one set locks the other) than OP's 'a la carte' suggestion, I think OP is completely correct that ZOS will never really achieve their stated "play how you like" goal with the current approach. As long as it holds true that "this is a magicka race, this is a stamina race", some players will always end up pulled away from what they really wanted to play, in order to avoid being "mathematically stupid" about race choice.

Racial choice should primarily be a matter of fantasy/roleplay preference. This is not a boring choice, unless fantasy is boring to you, in which case why are you playing an RPG?

Koronach · February 2019

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Koronach wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

martijnlv40 wrote: »

I completely agree, from a mmo standpoint. The singleplayer elder scrolls games don't work with this though, so I don't think everyone will be happy with this again. There's no pleasing everyone.

Racials in the old games was an starting bonus and did not matter at high levels as you got up to 100 in relevant skills and attributes. ESO flip this around and make it an end game bonus in an multiplayer game.

Well its to late to do anything about this now, I say current changes is an step in the right direction.

I think the Argonian passives are trash, all but the potion passive is aimed at healing. How does that scream diversity? Not to mention it goes against everything Argonians were built on in past games besides the dumbed down lolSkyrim.

Stop it. No it doesn't. Everything Argonians had fit the game that they were in. Most of the stuff was resist disease , resist poison, and water breathing. Everything else was a few starting stats that every race can obtain. None of the stats are even in this game. You cannot use water breathing since we cannot go under water. That only leaves the resistances and histskin that was added by Skyrim yes the game you insulted is the only game except ESO that gave Argonians something other than we giant humanoid lizards that can breathe under water. That was Argonians only identy. At least in this game they can be the restorative race.

No I wont stop it, since they threw out over a decade of what Argonians are supposed to be. Argonians were never supposed to be healers, that is not our identity. So you stop it. You obviously didn't play the other games, we were known for being assassins. Let me write it again in crayon since you don't know wtf you are talking about. Our stats always have been int,agi,and speed, we sucked in endurance and had bonuses in Illusion and Mysticism. Illusion for chameleon and invisibility, and Mysticism for detect life. Gee I wonder what those are for, oh yeah being stealthy and stalking prey. Intelligence helped with magic but was also a stat used for Alchemy which we got a bonus in. All these are helpful for, you guessed it Shadowscales and making poisons. We kill people not heal or tank for them, So again I will say you stop it. We always had an identity Skyrim and ESO just threw it out the window.

Kulvar · February 2019

Altmer : Best mages, but weak
Argonian : Thieves with some magical abilities
Bosmer : Thieves
Breton : Battlemages
Dunmer : Mages/thieves
Imperial : Jack-of-all-trades, master of none
Khajiit : Thieves with night vision
Nord : Barely armored warriors
Orc : Heavy armored warriors
Redguard : Weaponmaster warriors

Ozby · February 2019

I get what OP is getting at and understand why they want the change. Me personally I like that each race has passives and it kinda makes sense to me that Argonians swim faster and Khajiit are sneaky and I would be sad to see them with no flavour.

Deathlord92 · May 2019

I would pay for stamina racial passives on my Breton stamblade. I favour Bretons and have always played a Breton assassin in oblivion and skyrim and now since eso release on console Breton stamblade 💪

soynegroyque · June 2019

I made a proposal a while back for a system that could be implemented to benefit all parties and allow for more freedom for future changes to racials.

One of the main concerns about racials is whether they will keep changing in the future.
Races as well have them are not easily changeable unlike gear sets, attribute points and skill points. Choosing a race fit for a certain role and then have it become a whole different thing is concerning when the only way to correct it is via that cash shop.

My suggestion is to have a system similar account crafting style account unlock.

How will it work?
Racials may be unlocked via playing a character and reaching a certain point such as:
-Leveling a character to lv50.
-Completing the main quest.
-Reward from Cadwells Gold
-Other
One of these will unlock the characters race as a permanent account bound unlock.
A player may change their current character's racial passives for any other set of racial passives that have been unlocked in the account.
Example:
Player levels up a breton to lv 50.
Unlock the ability for other characters to opt into using the bretons' passives.
Later they create a dunmer.
The dunmer may now reject or touggle off all dunmer passives and use all passives of the breton race while still being a dunmer.

Things to note.
-This swap will NOT change the characters physical appearance. You may still need to purchase a race change token to completely change your race and appearance.
-You may NOT mix racials, You either have all the passives for race A or all the passives for race B. No in betweens in other to keep balance between races rather than the tailored selection of their specific passives.

The process
The ability to change passives should be more difficult than changing CP. And should stay in line with other types of respecs like skillpoint. It should not be something that can be changed on the go or inexpensive enough for people to be swapping then every time.
Suggestion:
A Shrine or table which will require gold or a premium currency (Passive Change Tokens?) working like the outfit station.

How can ZoS profit out of such system?
People who want to take shortcuts through this system instead of leveling a whole character to lv50 may purchase the racial passives in the store individually or in discounted packs.
Example:
1500 crowns individual races
3500 for a whole alliance
8500 for all 9 base races

Additionally possible new currency similar to outfit tokens.

Other Benefits
ZoS may now make drastic changes to races without having to give race changes for free as the player base can change it using gold or passive change tokens

Min/Maxers may fine tune their builds as they see fit.

Casual/New players are given an incentive to level up more characters, buy more characters slots, or buy the races.

Players can experiment with other races, allowing them to find racial passives that better fit them.

Less player performance discrimination based on looks alone. That guy is a *insert race* *insert class* DPs, kick him.

Role players may change passives and stay in character. And similar fashion driven players don't have to give up function over form.

This game has evolved to the point where looks don't actually match the function (style change)
Given the vestige is a soulless shell, it doesn't seem too far fetched for them to be linked with the other characters they share their CP with on a different level.

Koronach · June 2019

They just need to come to terms that the one passive per race is a fail and breaks lore that has been established for 5 years. While they continue to add lore that supports a races passive that doesn't exist anymore.

Dr_Ganknstein · June 2019

I think there should be a sort of "fork in the road" for each races passives. One leads down the path of the mystic arts and the other, physical conditioning and they both share that races "primary" passive.

SilentFox22 · June 2019

Would totes prefer all racial passives just completely removed!

Jordan.nick11b14_ESO · June 2019

josiahva wrote: »

Take a look around this forum with everyone arguing about which race should get which passives. People are basing their race choices on the passives available. No one is completely happy with the passives for any given race. As others have said, race should be a completely cosmetic choice...that way people can play the race they actually want to play. Sure, this might lead to a reduction in the "beast races"(or maybe not) but in reality...those races are rather rare outside of their zones anyway, so this would reflect the in-game reality rather well. People should just be able to choose whatever "character passives" they want(allow them choose whatever 3 they want), because regardless of what generalizations in expertise a given race has, there are always outliers...and as your character is a hero in the game...they are already an outlier. I for one am tired of trying to make my characters look halfway decent because the base race is one I am choosing strictly for their passives and would otherwise never play...it really makes no sense whatsoever that people are playing races they dont like just to get some passive or another...and then its even worse because the BIS DPS, tank, or healer is locked behind an alliance you may not have access to without buying the any race any alliance pack(not that I care about BIS anything myself, but many do) The whole system is completely stupid and no on is playing the game like they want because of it. The same holds true for class...class should be determined by 3 basic skill lines you pick....not picking a class because you like one particular skill line and hate the rest.

I hate homogonization and think it's the absolutely worst thing that can happen in a game like this. Terrible idea, couldn't disagree more.

Jordan.nick11b14_ESO · June 2019

I mean, my goodness if you want a different race's passives -- they've been so kind as to even provide a mechanism to have a race change. Please stop asking for passives to be removed; it's the diversity in this game that keeps me coming back...

wedgebert · June 2019

Jordan.nick11b14_ESO wrote: »

I mean, my goodness if you want a different race's passives -- they've been so kind as to even provide a mechanism to have a race change. Please stop asking for passives to be removed; it's the diversity in this game that keeps me coming back...

I'm for diversity, however their handling of racials in Wrathstone was terrible, at least from a flavor and lore perspective.

The changes from % to flat bonuses was fine and a net benefit to pretty much everyone. However many of the other changes, made in the name of diversity, were downright terrible.

The obvious worst change was turning Bosmer from a race of stealthy thieves into either a race of bland, flavorless, and subpar warriors (if in PvE) or drunken mall cops (if PvP). They didn't want two races to share stealth so they took it from the most lore appropriate race and left it on the historically agile race. Then they gave Bosmer a dodge-roll mechanic that is both 99.9% useless in PvE and completely non-sensical for a race that lives in tree tops. And that's not even mentioning the stealth detection mechanic that actual makes them worse at sneaking.

The second most egregious flavor/lore destroying change was making Altmer's "Spell Recharge" give back stamina. Again this is pretty worthless in PvE unless you're really bad at mechanics and only a little use in PvP where you'd dodge/block more (strange that the worst two changes were PvP related and dumped on the AD). This can actually be the worst passive if, for some reason, you made a stamina Altmer. At least magicka toons have some use for stamina because the magicka the passive gives back is worthless to a stam toon.

Taking poison resistance from Argonians was pretty bad too, especially because there are still plenty of quests in-game that talk about it (of course, there are quests talking about Bosmer stealth too).

There's a bunch of other issues like this with the current flavor passives that I really wish they'd address. Many of us play this game to be in the Elder Scrolls universe, not just to be the best murder-hobo we can be.

For example:

Bosmer, despite being known for their archery skills are not really that great. Both Orcs and Dunmer are better
Redguard, despite being known for their martial prowess (especially with swords) aren't that great at it. Again, Orcs and Dunmer tend to be better
Orcs, who have always been at their best when loaded up with heavy armor, sword, and shield (or a two handed weapon) are fast and prefer medium armor
Nords, known as intimidating berserkers and lightly armored scouts, are instead brawny tanks