I hate doing dungeons with super geared people...

Skua · May 2019

Try asking. I have a friend who would ask me to slow down when he first started because he felt like he didn't get to hit anything and it wasn't a problem, I just limited myself to heavy attacking only and paused by all the quest points so he could read them. I like to read the stories when new dungeons come out too.

master_vanargand · May 2019

I think I should make the Dungeon Quest Story Book.
You can get it after completing the dungeon quest.

khajiitNPC · May 2019

I have cp1130, PvE especially group content I tend to relax and let the other’s set the pace. I’ve done all the dungeons too many times to count. Typically if I’m going for a speed run I get with like minded individuals, plus it’s way easier to speed through it with people you know are geared for it.

But then I’m more considerate to those I group with. They might be farming gear, haven’t done the quest yet on an alternate toon, don’t know the mechanics. As a community it doesn’t hurt to get on mic and find out who you’re playing with. Also if they are noob they need to learn the mechanics.

Jeremy · May 2019

Riejael wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

My suggestion would be to allow players to sign up for a none CP run - that way newer players might actually get to experience the dungeon.

I think it'd be quicker to get a premade together. Here's how a Non-CP dungeon would go down:

New player queues for random dungeon. Lets day non-CP is on by default. Two hours later, he gets a group. Assuming they make it that long. Now they try for a regular CP allowed run (I assume we're not mandatorially splitting peeps, friends ought to be able to queue with friends even if one has CP and one doesn't). Instead of two hours, its 45 minutes.

Your suggestion is splitting a queuing system that already has a role shortage issue. And as I said before, lets say they disabled CP in normal dungeons. Which ideally we don't need CP for and would make them a bit harder.

I'm still going to melt stuff. As I said before, I was in there at level 5 hitting single target 10k DPS and 15-30k AOE dps. Mobs have 30-40k HP, that means they're going down in under 3 seconds. And I didn't even spend my CP cause I always tend to forget I can before level 50.

Problem is not CP. Problem is people knowing how to spend attributes, allocate skills, and use even basic rotations and animation canceling grouping with people who don't. Your suggestion doesn't fix this issue.

Mine does. While still creating exacerbation in queue times actually WILL split veteran players from normal players. And that suggestion is to give more incentives to do veteran. Make it so the Random daily gives better rewards for doing it on vet than normal. And giving the sets better bonuses (like Veteran Trial sets) on vet compared to normal. Also allow those of us with more than 160 CP to do veteran dungeons even if not 50. Just don't let us queue in group finder. Kinda like how we can do normals at 5 and not queue till 10. And grant us greater EXP for doing so.

You will see all of the highly experienced players vanish from the normal dungeons. Newbies will learn to play their roles with other newbies instead of being carried, and runs will slow down. Its a win-win situation.

But unless that happens, newbies need to use premades.

You're missing my point.

If you gave players the option to queue up for a none CP run in normal it would eliminate the "speed runners" from the queue - because anyone who is prioritizing speed obviously would want CP as well to hurry it along. Whether or not CP is the problem is irrelevant. What matters is it would remove speed runners from the queue so newer players could actually experience the dungeon. That would help this issue.

And If you ask me - it's the speed runners who should be using premades. - not newbies who are really the ones who should be signing up for normal dungeons anyway. Normals are suppose to introduce people to the dungeon and familiarize newer players with group content. I seriously doubt they were intended for veterans to speed through so newbies learn nothing.

All that being said: I'm not against increasing the rewards for Vet Dungeons.

Grandesdar · May 2019

Pevey wrote: »

If you want to waste your own time, that’s fine. Find a guild with other people who feel the same way. But don’t queue with 3 other people and expect to waste their time.

That goes the same for the runners. If you want to rush then do it with a group of friends. I went through Darkshade 1 3 times with my 20 lvl alt and those end gamers never ever let me give in the frigging quest no matter what I typed in to chat. Since when have we become so selfish? It'd take no more than 30 secs for them to wait. Even one person not leaving the group would have been enough, but no. They just did.

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx · May 2019

Perhaps it's already been said, but the queue still isn't great and combine that with a less than stellar amount of people using it, and you'll spread the pool too thin. I'd say you're in the minority of people, so the few people queing for Casual would take away from the people going for Speed run, leaving people with even LONGER wait times, if they managed to form a group at all. If you want to do a slow run, cool but join a Role Playing guild or something that want's to crawl through the whole thing

This is a hilarious and atrocious idea.

yRaven · May 2019

The system you suggest is nice, i would not have to wait someone, i could just Speed Run all times, but remember the majority of the game like to Speed Run, that means that your Normal Run queue would take Hours to find a group or it would not even find, so you're burning yourself

Heady · May 2019

It really irritates me when all these big bad dps come into my dungeon groups while I am roleplaying and ruin my immersion with their 15k dps, something needs to change zos pls fix

Casdha · May 2019

I've never had to wait in queue for a group dungeon because I either go in alone or I play with folks In one of the guilds I'm in.

This does bring to mind a topic I've wondered about especially after this last patch. What about Delves. I've seen plenty of folks who still struggle in Delves and I wonder what they must think when they go in behind some one who facerolls everything in front of them. I've been guilty of it and I've followed others who do the same but in front of me. I've also played leapfrog through a delve.

This can't be any fun for new players. If I see a new player i tend to hang out a second and if it looks like they are gonna die I'll throw in a swing of the sword but I'm not sure if this is welcome or hated. I guess it would depend on the player.

Ramber · May 2019

join a guild that likes to run the way you do or has people that likes both styles. Mine is like that we are laid back and don't force a play style. message me for invite

Jayman1000 · May 2019

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

Yeah, I just say it out loud here: As a Casual player, doing a dungeon with someone who could easy solo the whole thing (and does) is boring as hell.

I mean, some people might enjoy just running behind the 800CP guy with minmax sets, but honestly, I would like a slower run way more than being basically not needed to finish the dungeon.

Cant we get some way that people like this could queue for themself?

Like... give us another option, for example: "Random Dungeon - Normal Run" and "Random Dungeon - Speed Run". The dungeons would be the same, but that way all the HIgh geared hardcore players can just join together and do dungeons in 10 minutes, maybe with one or two guys who like to get carried, and casuals can do the dungeon their own pace, with enough time to actually experience the mechanics, read the quests, listen to events... all that.

I definately agree here: we need so much more custom options in the group finder, so that likeminded players can find eachother and so that players with conflicting interests doesnt bother each other. But I really doubt it is ever going to happen, ZOS doesnt care about this.

So therefore you should join a good pve guild where you can form premades with players that want the same.

Strider__Roshin · May 2019

If only there was a separate GF that was only filled with people I didn't have to carry... Then again I'd never find a group then.

Facefister · May 2019

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

This is exactly why people reach level 50, and evel CP 160, and have no idea how to properly tank, heal or read boss mechanics. Because they never had to. The whole point of leveling is to learn the game, but when most of your dungeons runs is you following one or two CP500+ melting everything in their path, you learn nothing.

Normal dungeons are so easy and forgiving. They don't teach you anything. Even the one-shots in vet are cottonballs on normal.

FearlessOne_2014 · May 2019

The solution to this problem for all parties was already stated.

A PLAYER BASED QUEUE! Like in GW2. GG ZOS wouldn't even have to fix the queue system anymore. Because players would be doing that job for them at that point.

So we the ESO community should be lobbying in a PLAYER BASED LFG system into ESO.

ryzen_gamer_gal · May 2019

When i enter a dumgeon and someone takes off without the group to do their solo speed run i immediately vote to kick them. THose folks are pests. I would very much like a queue for people who want to do a speed run seperate from those that dont.

Ydrisselle · May 2019

yRaven wrote: »

The system you suggest is nice, i would not have to wait someone, i could just Speed Run all times, but remember the majority of the game like to Speed Run, that means that your Normal Run queue would take Hours to find a group or it would not even find, so you're burning yourself

You can't be sure that the majority are only interested in speedruns.

worrallj · May 2019

As someone who's both been with the super geared guy and been the super geared guy, I know what you mean.

There's a been longtime request from many in the community for a "story mode" on dungeons like was done in SWTOR that would probably address this.

Riejael · May 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

And If you ask me - it's the speed runners who should be using premades. - not newbies who are really the ones who should be signing up for normal dungeons anyway.

If you were right, then there would be no problem. The majority would simple vote kick the speed runners.

You are not in the majority. And groups run under a dictatorial democracy meaning majority rules without discussion. Speedrunning is simply a fact of life, otherwise we wouldn't be having these complaints.

ShimmerDoll · July 2019

kathandira wrote: »

You don’t like running with them, and they don’t like running with you.

Both sides have the same option. Deal with it, or group with friends.

It's hard to find friends in here and it's crazy to think there's an immediate connection made when you do find someone. It takes time. something these game devs don't understand.

Attackfrog · July 2019

Ydrisselle wrote: »

yRaven wrote: »

The system you suggest is nice, i would not have to wait someone, i could just Speed Run all times, but remember the majority of the game like to Speed Run, that means that your Normal Run queue would take Hours to find a group or it would not even find, so you're burning yourself

You can't be sure that the majority are only interested in speedruns.

The vocal minority (aka: vocal elite) always consider themselves the majority.

Jeremy · July 2019

Riejael wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

And If you ask me - it's the speed runners who should be using premades. - not newbies who are really the ones who should be signing up for normal dungeons anyway.

If you were right, then there would be no problem. The majority would simple vote kick the speed runners.

You are not in the majority. And groups run under a dictatorial democracy meaning majority rules without discussion. Speedrunning is simply a fact of life, otherwise we wouldn't be having these complaints.

This thread is old, so I'm not sure what all I said in that comment. But in that quote you posted I don't see anything about me claiming I'm in a majority or not.

If I remember correctly (and again - this thread is old) my argument was that normal dungeons were being over-run by high level veterans who are just wanting to get the dungeon over with asap - which really isn't fair for newer players who are still trying to learn the game. Normal dungeons are pitifully easy for high level veterans - especially the base game ones. They aren't designed for high level characters. It's like having pro baseball players jump into a little league game and ruin it for the kids.

I don't remember my argument having anything to do with one or the other being in the majority.

Dusk_Coven · July 2019

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

Cant we get some way that people like this could queue for themself?

They need to queue Random in case they get a DLC dungeon, which isn't so easily done solo.

Aznarb · July 2019

"super geared people"

1 - Gear is easy to get in this game, nothing here is about "super gearing"
2 - Normal dg can be run solo for every class even as a healer with basic gear in purple.
3 - I'm a casual too, I've no problem with that.
4 - If you don't like group finder, find guild and/or friend and play with them, it's what I do cuz I'm bored to play with bad player who don't even try.

If you've a quest, say it.
If you don't know the strat, ask.
If you want more challenge to learn : go vet.
If you want even more go vet DLC hm.

It's sad, but outside some normal DLC, their is nothing to learn in normal DG.
Learn in veteran no-DLC DG.

Don't blame player for ZoS incompetence at balancing thing.

Altaire · July 2019

I enjoy the slower paced groups over speed runs.
Oh God, I hope no one makes a poll on this;)

No but some the most fun runs have been w/ ppl that stop and ask questions or joke around, its not like eso gives 'glory stones' for ppl that run these dungeons over and over and over.

Grianasteri · July 2019

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

Yeah, I just say it out loud here: As a Casual player, doing a dungeon with someone who could easy solo the whole thing (and does) is boring as hell.

I mean, some people might enjoy just running behind the 800CP guy with minmax sets, but honestly, I would like a slower run way more than being basically not needed to finish the dungeon.

Cant we get some way that people like this could queue for themself?

Like... give us another option, for example: "Random Dungeon - Normal Run" and "Random Dungeon - Speed Run". The dungeons would be the same, but that way all the HIgh geared hardcore players can just join together and do dungeons in 10 minutes, maybe with one or two guys who like to get carried, and casuals can do the dungeon their own pace, with enough time to actually experience the mechanics, read the quests, listen to events... all that.

I absolutely feel your pain, because I used to hate this just as much. In fact I and the friend I usually run with, vote to kick players that sprint off ahead of everyone else, essentially completing the dungeon on their own.

However, I am opposed to anything which splits the player base and therefore increases queue time for dungeons.

Having said that, this is not such an issue for me since I am now almost max CP and plenty of my characters have good gear etc, so I can run most dungeons, normal and vet, really quite quickly (there are a few more tricky ones, particularly the DLCs). I do not however, run off far ahead and keep killing and progressing, I wait for my team.

Dubhliam · July 2019

@mann9753b16_ESO you are the one that has the power to change things for yourself.

You cannot make other players change, especially not make them underperform.
What you can do is change yourself.

Simply improve to the point that you can do veteran dungeons in PUGs, instead of normal dungeons.

Otherwise, simply stop using PUG Finder and surrond yourself with players of a similar mindset and skill to do dungeons with.
If you find you cannot find a lot of those people, then that is the answer to why ZOS won't do anything to change your "problem".

VDoom1 · July 2019

This is an interesting discussion.

On one hand some people are to fast and don't give others a chance to learn or just experience the dungeon.
On the other hand you have people who think others are to slow.
But there has to be some middle ground to all this.

The bottom line is that *normal* dungeons are meant for learning.
However going into a *veteran dungeon*, that is different. If you queue for a veteran dungeon you are expected to be able to perform your role. Though there are certain unique situations. For example, everyone has their first veteran dungeon. If you get into a veteran dungeon, and it's your first time there please say so in group chat. The other three people can't read your mind. But if you tell them "I'm new, first veteran dungeon." Or "first time here" they can at least give you some tips.

I always try to help. I always say hi, I always say good run at the end. So if I find myself in a dungeon and someone is confused or wants to slow down, or wants to go faster I respect that. If we wipe at a boss because someone doesn't know the mechanics I explain them. It is a lot more fun to run a dungeon having taught others how to deal with each boss. Because then you really finish it as a team, you get through it together.

In normal dungeons, I have to say people should slow down. I know someone might only be there to grind gear. They could solo it but decided to go into the dungeon finder queue anyways. But the real issue is a lack of respect. Respect that someone there might just want to enjoy the dungeon, have time to read the quest and lot everything. I mainly play on my tank, sure I can run ahead a bit but I always wait for everyone. If someone wants me to slow down I do so.

The real problem here is that some players don't take the rest of the group into account. Like my way or the highway. That kind of attitude is not nice and it's bad for those who want to just take it easy in a dungeon. My advice to people who feel that someone is rushing them through it, first ask them to slow down. I'm pretty sure most people will listen and slow down.

This is a good community compared to others, and in my 5 years of ESO I have almost never seen any rude players or bad behavior. My "bad times" in ESO have mostly been from PvP but that's another story. xD

Arrodisia · July 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

Not going to happen. Its just impractical and not really needed.

A. Given the length of DD wait times, ZOS isn't going to split the queue for random/specific dungeons. The slower run queue will be even more lacking in tanks and healers because most experienced tanks and healers will take the option that gets them the (theoretically) faster DPS. And that's not even mentioning the recurring issues with groupfinder, so I'm not sure ZOS is going to mess with it at all.

B. You can't enforce run speed on anyone, short of kicking them. Which you can do now anyway, assuming the rest of your group also wants to take it slow.

C. You've already got options for running at your own speed. Group up from zone chat, group with guildies, or group up with friends. Yeah, that requires more work than queueing up to run dungeons with a bunch of random people, but hey, that's exactly what you have to do if you want something other than random.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Point A would be the biggest hindrance of what the op wants. Plus, people can already create a custom group to queue. Players already have the option of customizing the experience to fit their wants and needs.

CompM4s · July 2019

Im not walking through fungal grotto I...

Llaren_Uvayn · July 2019

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

Yeah, I just say it out loud here: As a Casual player, doing a dungeon with someone who could easy solo the whole thing (and does) is boring as hell.

I mean, some people might enjoy just running behind the 800CP guy with minmax sets, but honestly, I would like a slower run way more than being basically not needed to finish the dungeon.

Cant we get some way that people like this could queue for themself?

Like... give us another option, for example: "Random Dungeon - Normal Run" and "Random Dungeon - Speed Run". The dungeons would be the same, but that way all the HIgh geared hardcore players can just join together and do dungeons in 10 minutes, maybe with one or two guys who like to get carried, and casuals can do the dungeon their own pace, with enough time to actually experience the mechanics, read the quests, listen to events... all that.

I don't think a separate queue is something ZoS will ever consider because that would mean they'd be purposefully making room for people to be unreasonably overpowered for the content. The alternative is to make the content more challenging, but that already exists in the form of veteran dungeons.

I agree, it's annoying when people race through dungeons and don't allow levelling players to catch up or even do the dungeon quest.

Pevey wrote: »

If you want to waste your own time, that’s fine. Find a guild with other people who feel the same way. But don’t queue with 3 other people and expect to waste their time.

It's this sort of attitude that puts me off ESO even more than the performance issues. If you disagree with OP and like to rush dungeons then go ahead and continue to do so but for the love of Sithis get out of your own arse.