Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
Hopefully the racial passives will be balanced next update.
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Claudman✭✭✭✭✭If you want to DPS with a Nord, that's your decision and your consequence. Nords have never been good at DPS'ing and I'm sure many tanks wouldn't want their Ultimate generation reverted.
I don't think every race should have passives for just DPS'ing and DPS'ing alone, DPS isn't the only role in ESO. Besides, a 3k dps difference only matters when two players have the same exact set and rotation...Rarely does that ever happen.Welcome, Moon-and-Star, to this place where destiny is made.
I play healers or DPS often for vet dungeons and trials (NA, CP810+). I play mostly elves or Argonians.
I primarily play Damage-Based stuff in PvP, but occasionally I'll play something tanky or got the heals.
I also love gaining more knowledge both metaphysical and mundane regarding TES lore.
I also occasionally role-play, but I prefer playing the game.1 -
Op says races aren’t balanced. Others reply saying they are balanced hes just choosing the wrong race... wtf?5 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭IzzyStardust wrote: »Until Dunmer are given their fire affinity back and Altmer return magicka instead of stamina (still: What?!) - nothing else matters.
Dunmer
- max stam and magicka
- flame resist and max health
- increase weapon/spell damage
I’ll take half of any one of those in place of hunters eye on bosmer. I’m done and will stop beating the dead horse now... 😉
You're not even up to date.0 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Imo ZOS should have done away with current racials as is.
Character creation choose factions>species>racials
A slection of racials fitting to the role you wish to play.
Defensive
Magicka
Stamina
Support
Jack of all trades (for the player who likes to switch roles on a main, similar to Dark Elf & khajiit atm).
Easy to balance, separate species & racials into two tokens in crown store. Profit.3 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭
If Altmer get magic return, they would obviously become the new OP race as Orc is now, you you could reduce max magic a bit to compensate.IzzyStardust wrote: »Until Dunmer are given their fire affinity back and Altmer return magicka instead of stamina (still: What?!) - nothing else matters.
What?
I mean...what?
They weren’t OP before; why would they be now?
They jacked Altmer to force race change tokens; no more, no less.
Why on Nirn would Altmer want/need stam back upon using class/magicka skills?0 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzzyStardust wrote: »Until Dunmer are given their fire affinity back and Altmer return magicka instead of stamina (still: What?!) - nothing else matters.
I agree. If I were you I wouldn't play this game until that happens.
It's just too critical of an issue.
lol- yeah my Dunmer Magblade DPS and my Altmer Templar healer I’ve run since March 30 2014 hve been shelved to running writs.
How much more non playing can they get?0 -
ShadowDisciple✭✭✭✭For Stam Nords are still garbage DPS, and it's Orc or nothing. This isn't balanced at all, and it's been this way since the previous PTS cycle and nothing was done about it.
Garbage dps.??? Racial bonus account for 5% of dps... And in pvp skill will outweigh ypur precious racial any day of the week. U just cry for the sake of crying. Freaking kids get more and more spoiled by the day0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ShadowDisciple wrote: »For Stam Nords are still garbage DPS, and it's Orc or nothing. This isn't balanced at all, and it's been this way since the previous PTS cycle and nothing was done about it.
Garbage dps.??? Racial bonus account for 5% of dps... And in pvp skill will outweigh ypur precious racial any day of the week. U just cry for the sake of crying. Freaking kids get more and more spoiled by the day
Yes, I'm spoiled for pointing out poor racial balancing. Being observant is truly a byproduct of being privileged indeed.2 -
Ri_Khan✭✭✭✭✭
✭thelawnranger79 wrote: »Op says races aren’t balanced. Others reply saying they are balanced hes just choosing the wrong race... wtf?
Apparently "balance" has a very loose definition around here. The devs and their lackey's throw the word around all the time in order to excuse all the ridiculous changes we get hit with every three months. None of the races or classes are actually balanced...still, after 5 years.6 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »Genuine question, why should Nords be a DPS race and not a tanking race?
Lore, because in previous games their passives were for DPS and Orcs were more for tanking then ESO decides that they want to do their own thing.
In Skyrim, orcs could enter their berserker rage and deal double physical damage. Nords had a ranged fear (read: CC). I haven't played oblivion or morrowind, let alone what came before (I'm a bit on the younger side!), so perhaps you could tell me what they did in those games?
Nords in Skyrim:
+10 Two-Handed (25)
+5 Block (20)
+5 Light Armor (20)
+5 One-Handed (20)
+5 Smithing (20)
+5 Speech (20)
Light armor in Skyrim behaved like medium in ESO btw. More focus on stamina resource management and being evasive.
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Nord_(Skyrim)
Orcs in Skyrim
+10 Heavy Armor (25)
+5 Block (20)
+5 Enchanting (20)
+5 One-Handed (20)
+5 Smithing (20)
+5 Two-Handed (20)
Heavy armor in Skyrim behaves similar to how it does in ESO; survivability.
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Orsimer_(Skyrim)
As you can tell they're both warrior races. Nords being more offensive than Orcs naturally. Then you get to ESO where they screw it all up.1 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »Genuine question, why should Nords be a DPS race and not a tanking race?
Lore, because in previous games their passives were for DPS and Orcs were more for tanking then ESO decides that they want to do their own thing.
In Skyrim, orcs could enter their berserker rage and deal double physical damage. Nords had a ranged fear (read: CC). I haven't played oblivion or morrowind, let alone what came before (I'm a bit on the younger side!), so perhaps you could tell me what they did in those games?
Nords in Skyrim:
+10 Two-Handed (25)
+5 Block (20)
+5 Light Armor (20)
+5 One-Handed (20)
+5 Smithing (20)
+5 Speech (20)
Light armor in Skyrim behaved like medium in ESO btw. More focus on stamina resource management and being evasive.
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Nord_(Skyrim)
Orcs in Skyrim
+10 Heavy Armor (25)
+5 Block (20)
+5 Enchanting (20)
+5 One-Handed (20)
+5 Smithing (20)
+5 Two-Handed (20)
Heavy armor in Skyrim behaves similar to how it does in ESO; survivability.
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Orsimer_(Skyrim)
As you can tell they're both warrior races.
I agree with everything above.Nords being more offensive than Orcs naturally. Then you get to ESO where they screw it all up.
This is objectively wrong. Orc's racial active ability doubled your damage. Nords was a cc. Cc, in stereotypical RPG settings, is far more useful on support characters.
In fact, both nord and orc got block (which could be used with all weapon types), one handed, and two handed increases. They're equally (racially) built to strike opponents and defend from blows. The difference is in their active abilities, in which the orc got increased damage.
In eso, the orc retains increased damage. The nord even retains faster 2h leveling iirc, and the or retains smithing inspiration.
None of this breaks precedent. Maybe older games are different?Edited by DocFrost72 on May 24, 2019 3:33AM0 -
Abhaya✭✭✭✭Does anyone know if the 3% reduced cost on red diamond also reduces the cost of break free and dodge? You would need to spend roughly 2100 stamina a second to break even with 258 regen. That’s assuming that it is proccing perfectly on cooldown. It should also be noted that the ~133 regen does not benefit from any modifiers like increasing regen % so this puts it even farther behind a flat regen buff. Also the health regen is so negligable that it may as well not even exist and the off-stat regen is okay but is completely useless in PVE for a DD and is situational at best in PVP when having more sustain for your major resource is likely to always outperform.
Long story short I race changed to orc and am using the serpent but I hate how my character looks and am trying to justify going back to imperial with warrior mundus it just doesn’t appear to be mathematically equal and for the times where I venture into PVE land to farm gear I’m worried that I will fall even further behind with the lost weapon damage since I would probably be running shadow rather than the warrior or serpent.Abhaya - PC NA - Ebonheart Pact
Stam Sorc 2-Hand / Bow Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=1691030 -
Vietfox✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IzzyStardust wrote: »
If Altmer get magic return, they would obviously become the new OP race as Orc is now, you you could reduce max magic a bit to compensate.IzzyStardust wrote: »Until Dunmer are given their fire affinity back and Altmer return magicka instead of stamina (still: What?!) - nothing else matters.
Why on Nirn would Altmer want/need stam back upon using class/magicka skills?
For PvP.
People might not like it because of the lore and bla bla bla, but i love that passive.3 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭IzzyStardust wrote: »
If Altmer get magic return, they would obviously become the new OP race as Orc is now, you you could reduce max magic a bit to compensate.IzzyStardust wrote: »Until Dunmer are given their fire affinity back and Altmer return magicka instead of stamina (still: What?!) - nothing else matters.
What?
I mean...what?
They weren’t OP before; why would they be now?
They jacked Altmer to force race change tokens; no more, no less.
Why on Nirn would Altmer want/need stam back upon using class/magicka skills?
Altmer wasn't the go-to magicka race on anything DD but DK? All right...Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on May 24, 2019 8:17AM1 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For Stam Nords are still garbage DPS, and it's Orc or nothing. This isn't balanced at all, and it's been this way since the previous PTS cycle and nothing was done about it.
Well... at least Nords are good at "something". There are races that are basically good at... nothing - mainly Argonians and Bosmers. They simply don't have a use case.
Anyway, I agree. ZOS wanted to make all races more universal and not limited to a certain role, but I guess that only worked in case of Dunmer & Breton and posibly. Khajiit. The others either became more limited to do certain job or totally useless.6 -
Kalle_Demos✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »
Yes its 3K from bis to races with no passives, say an breton stamina build or an Bosmer magic one.Crixus8000 wrote: »I hope races don't get nerfed just because pve players don't like that few k dps difference.
Few Ks of dps? We're talking about less than 300dps difference.
The races are far more balanced than before, parses and math have ALWAYS shown an incredibly small margin of difference that comes down to player skill and error.
This is just another thread pushing an agenda, like 99% of the threads regarding balance.
No it's around a 3k dps difference actually.
For relevant races 300 is more accurate. 1K if we include not dps optimized ones like Argonian magic DD.
At average it's around 1-1.5k difference with relevant races if you don't mean dunmer like only relevant race. It could be ok if other races have advantages over orc in something else, but they don't have any advantage. As somebody mentioned orc's crit damage is higher then khajiit's simply because 2k stam and 258 WD bring more then 1k stam and 10% crit damage. Orc can convert WD to recovery any time, but bosmer and redguard can't directly convert sustain to damage, only by spamming more. So in PVE orc is simply best no matter what on any class in any viable circumstances. For example khajiit should be more effective on stamnb and stamplar, that is clear, but nope. Bosmer should be more effective in distance like bow/bow builds and redguard must be better in pure melee builds. But no, in any build orc is BiS. PVE stamina race balance is a failure.
This. Previously some races were better than others yes, but they competed with each other because they had drawbacks and benefits, pros and cons depending on various builds. This trade-off allowed the races to remain unique and achieved a balance of no one race being overtly superior to another, not that certain changes weren't warranted. Now that is largely gone and some races like Orcs simply outperform the others, even if it is only by a little. This is a blow to diversity and the opposite of what ZOS said they wanted to accomplish.
"If I am to be Queen, I must look fear in the face and conquer it. How can I ask my people to have faith in me if I don't have faith in myself?" - Queen Ayrenn4 -
Apox✭✭✭✭✭you may be misguided. orc is the mathmatical best for stam, but not by much. redguard is close behind, khajiit and dark elf are also super solid choices. all depends on what ou want to do.
i played my stamsorc as redguard until i started pvping on him, then i went orc. literally for the extra hp, sprint speed and sprint cost reduction, not for dps.
This is a comic someone made for world of warcraft, but its painfully relevant here: https://www.darklegacycomics.com/558Edited by Apox on May 24, 2019 9:40AM0 -
Yasha✭✭✭✭✭Nord has the strongest passives in the game lol, just not designed to pump out the absolute highest damage.0
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barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »Genuine question, why should Nords be a DPS race and not a tanking race?
Just IMHO, but why should any race be pigeon holed into a specific role? Some should be a bit more effective, because of concept of the race, sure. But eveything should be able to perform every role, at the very least, adequately.
IMHO race should not define role. It's already enough that it defines class.
Edited by barney2525 on May 24, 2019 9:54AM3 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They’ve already said they’re happy with racial passives so I doubt we will see more changes. Next is weapon and armor and then class passives. Racial passives won’t be revisited until much much further down the road if at all.0 -
Uryel✭✭✭✭✭
✭The races have never been as close to each other as they are now. You can do anything as any race on any role.
I fail to see why this is supposed to be good, or even true.
I created my nightblade bosmer 4 years ago for one thing : to be a thief. I don't care about PvP, I don't care about trials, I almost never run any dungeon either. I steal ***. I sneak past mobs to hit only my target or grab whatever I cam for and then scram.
Or, I used to. Can't anymore. Not only did the racial "balance" transform my character into a guard, depsite 25 years of lore that say bosmers are stealthy, but the latest class patch reduced the one invisibility skill I had as a nightblade to 1 second, effectively removing any non-potion way to sneak past mobs in tight hallways. And that's because people were apparently confused betwxeen khajiits and bosmers.
The sad truth is that the racial patch was made with PvP in mind, based on the whines of sore losers. Because of that, bosmers became the only race with a non-flavor racial that has no effect whatsoever in PvE, and that took away a large chunk of their appeal for non PVP gameplay. Or should I just say "non high end" instead ? While their stat bonus still makes them desireable in trials and all, the loss of stealth is a major letdown for casual gaming.
But yeah, now all races are very close. I'm about as stealthy with my bosmer as any nord or orc. Imperials are stealthier, though, with their racial reduction of the cost of any ability, which also works on stealth.
Simply put, I'm pretty fed up with my non PvP, non trial gameplay being butchered because of the many little sh*ts who keep complaining about PvP.Edited by Uryel on May 24, 2019 10:55AM14 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »Genuine question, why should Nords be a DPS race and not a tanking race?
Just IMHO, but why should any race be pigeon holed into a specific role? Some should be a bit more effective, because of concept of the race, sure. But eveything should be able to perform every role, at the very least, adequately.
I agree, and they do. You can complete any trial in the game on a bosmer mag sorc or a breton stamdk. Racials account for, at the highest tier gameplay (read: optimized vet trials), roughly 5% dps. That is between having relevant passives and having no passives that benefit you in any meaningful way. For meta and score pushing, that 5% is huge. For clearing, it is absolutely nothing. The dps threshold atm is so stupidly high that people can reach double the numbers to clear most content self buffed.
Agreed, my multiple bosmer and imperial stam dps agree too.IMHO race should not define role. It's already enough that it defines class.
Edit: proof. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3Edited by DocFrost72 on May 24, 2019 12:22PM2 -
mistermacintosh✭✭✭Get rid of race skill lines and attach those skills to birth signs, selectable at character creation and changeable with store tokens. Problem solved.Legalize Nirnroot!
Mac User, NA Server (CP810+, PVE focused):Magicka Templar Ra the Everlasting (Level 50 - Main Character)
Stamina Sorcerer Khazaka-ri (Level 50 - Crafter)
Dragonknight Tank Skalda Flamewreath (Level 50)
Pet Sorcerer Hellias Ocume (Level 50)
Magicka Necromancer Socelon (Level 4)
Templar Healer Mends-Through-Panic (Level 50)
Stamina Nightblade Adanna-daro (Level 50)
Stamina Warden Marely Sprigs (Level 50)
Stamina Dragonknight Ursula Trollcalmer (Level 50)
Stamina Necromancer Daengeval (Level 4)
Stamina Templar Cornellus Graves (Level 50)
Warden Healer Pays-For-Luxury (Level 50)
Magicka Sorcerer Sophia Flash (Level 50)
Magicka Dragonknight Cinvalo Aloavel (Level 50)
Magicka Nightblade Esmerelda the Cruel (Level 50)1 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There's never going to be a perfect balance. Welcome to multiplayer games.
Agreed, and them constantly adjusting for the meta of the week does nothing but alienate the player base. There was nothing wrong with the original racial passives, they worked fine for years. Now all they've done is trash the lore, destroyed playstyles that people have worked years and spent time and skill points maxing ability lines on, and created a ton of nonsensical quest and book dialogues for new and old players to puzzle over.5 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pretty sure Zos is saying no to a rebalance of racial passives right after they they rebalanced them. In fact I think they actually said that a couple months ago.
Overall the passive are the best they have been.Edited by idk on May 24, 2019 2:57PM1 -
Trinity_Is_My_Name✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Races are the best they have ever been. I like the changes. My Nord Tank is doing quite well.0
