To all of you upset for NA rawlkha guilds gone...

16BitForestCat · May 2019

sylviermoone wrote: »

For all the talk about how this person is “doing it for the little guy”, I see no actual “little guys” represented here. How many people have items listed in the RIOTS guild stores again?

Thiiiiiiiiiiis this this THIS. I said this already in another thread (which got nuked by mods because someone was being an extremely abusive piece of trash all over the thread; thankfully, he seems to have been either suspended or banned--LATER EDIT: only suspended, sadly), but the hijacker's claim that they were doing this "for the little guys" is total bullcrap. If they actually cared about "the little guys" they would have filled the hijacker guilds with desirable items at extremely fair prices that would undercut the prices being charged by the imaginary "cartel" guilds. Instead, all the listings when the guild stores reset Sunday night were for trash items at extremely inflated prices. All those dummy (or real) accounts involved in the hijacking could have been used to post legitimate deals just as easily as they were actually used to post overpriced crap that began with the same letter as the hijacking guild they were posted in.

Trash person listing trash items. Makes sense to me.

They're only claiming that they're pulling a Robin Hood because they knew people would be calling them out and reporting them*, and they're desperate to cover their backside and make themself out to be the good guy in all this.

*Whether they did anything punishable is for the ZOS abuse team to decide, not me, so I'm not speculating whether their actions were, well, actionable.

EDIT because I "accidentally a word" LOL

FrancisCrawford · May 2019

I'm probably a little more sophisticated than most people in thinking about this stuff, in that:

I'm a PhD game theorist who once presented at a conference on "Auctions, Bidding and Estimation".
I briefly ran a small trading guild.
I've been in some of the top trading guilds on PC/NA (currently both BBCs, previously BMW, etc.) and also some medium ones.
I think about businesses for a living.

So far as I can tell:

The situation generally is what the GMs of the big trading guilds claim it is, e.g. in their communications with membership or their posts here ...
... with one exception, and even there I don't recall them ever lying; it's just a subject they rarely discuss publicly.

Uninformed people complain about a "cartel" which, I suppose, they imagine keeps bids lower than they otherwise would be. I doubt strongly that their imaginings are correct, given:

The lack of means in the primitive trader-bidding system to "punish" guilds that violate the supposed cartel's dictates.
The occasional weeks in which another established trading guild DOES bid a location away from one of the top ones.

However, I also note that:

GMs do a good job of determining how much they have to bid to keep their traders.
They probably aren't bidding against a lot of other guilds within the system. (For if they were, those bids would probably come from other guilds who are losing out on good-not-great locations the weeks they try for a great trader, and that doesn't seem to often be happening.)

And I don't see how they can be that savvy strictly through impersonal "market signalling"; there simply isn't enough information out there.

Hence -- and this is the "exception" I noted above -- it's reasonable to conjecture that the people who bother to run top trading guilds are in some way in communication with each other.

ChunkyCat · May 2019

I’m over here trying to figure out a decent mag DK build for BGs, and at the same time, there’s apparently a whole secret society of trade guilds running a cut throat trade cartel.

LeLs. This game is wild.

Acrolas · May 2019

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I'm probably a little more sophisticated than most people in thinking about this stuff, in that:

Ri_Khan · May 2019

ploy noun /ploi/

something that is done or said, often dishonestly, in order to get an advantage

zyk · May 2019

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

And I don't see how they can be that savvy strictly through impersonal "market signalling"; there simply isn't enough information out there.

Hence -- and this is the "exception" I noted above -- it's reasonable to conjecture that the people who bother to run top trading guilds are in some way in communication with each other.

The trade guild game in ESO at a GM level is a political game. There is certainly information shared between guilds and other interested parties. But there's no conspiracy against the players of ESO and nor could there be.

The trading game has, by far, the most interesting gameplay in ESO. It's too bad the economy isn't as interesting as it used to be or I would still be playing it.

The main evil of the Trading are players who bot and/or deal with botters. But they actually benefit the average player by reducing scarcity.

JumpmanLane · May 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

I’m over here trying to figure out a decent mag DK build for BGs, and at the same time, there’s apparently a whole secret society of trade guilds running a cut throat trade cartel.

LeLs. This game is wild.

Spinner’s you’ll need the pen lol

JumpmanLane · May 2019

I’m just gonna give AUT 50k and hope they’re back in Rawlka next week lol.

Tasear · May 2019

It's shameful to the amount of unjustified hate these leaders are getting. I stand my guild BBC and hardworking officers in it.

sionIV · May 2019

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I'm probably a little more sophisticated than most people in thinking about this stuff, in that:

How to instantly lose any credibility to your argument.

Ardan147 · May 2019

CipherNine wrote: »

The ones that defend this cartel of guilds and this stupid guild trade system are the ones that's in them. F off with this bs that "its a blind bid system" so everyone has a chance at those spots. TOTAL BS! the same guilds have held the all the best spots 24/7 for years. No other guilds have ever had a chance and never will. This week was just a lucky anomaly of those spots being taken.
The normal procedure of the cartel will be back next week of owning all the best spots permanently. All this being said it's 100% on ZOS anyway for creating this stupid monopoly of a system.

For the last time, THERE IS NO CARTEL. It is simply not possible for one guild, or even five, to control the market. There are dozens of other places to shop aside from Rawl'kha, and even if Rawl'kha is the "best" location, the difference between it and other top locations is minimal.

You want to know why it's (almost) always the same guilds in Rawl'kha (and other prime locations) week after week? Because a guild can only bid on one trader each week. That's it. If another guild outbids you, you don't get a trader for that week, unless you can luck out and find a trader that no one has bid on and grab it before anyone else does. Any guild with the means to take one of us out (I'm in ETU and Angry Unicorn Traders) AND be able to feasibly hold onto that spot in the coming weeks, would have to already be a major trading guild with a trader in a prime location that they would be giving up, and risking having nothing for that week. Of course the guilds already there have to place large enough bids to head off that possibility, because they have absolutely no way of knowing who (if anyone) else attempted to bid on their trader, nor how much. (Of course, nothing can defend against a "f--- you" bid from someone willing to throw away hundreds of millions of gold just to hurt someone else.)

That they all ended up in Rimmen (except for Angry Unicorn Traders which was able to grab an empty trader in Windhelm) is due to the fact that these guilds have GM's and officers who are completely dedicated to their guilds, and were determined to salvage the situation by whatever means was available to them; with the new zone dropping that meant making sure to be among the first people online once the servers were back up so that they could secure one of the new traders. So ultimately the only thing that this "stunt" (an overly generous term if you ask me; I would say "temper tantrum" would be a more apt description) was to deny five smaller guilds a chance at a guild trader. And for everyone on the entire server it means one less major shopping hub for finding stuff they might be looking for.

MLGProPlayer · May 2019

CipherNine wrote: »

I think it's hilarious. I love seeing the cartel i mean the top few trading guilds get screwed over. Sick of their monopolies anyway. Just proof how this games guild store system sucks.

If I was a very rich person. I would create 5 trade guilds and just keep buying millions and millions of gold. Then keep buying out their trade spots and let anyone join them with very low requirements that's very easy to for fill to stay in the guilds.

Good luck keeping those spots with no sales requirements or fees. I'm sure it'll work out great.

MLGProPlayer · May 2019

StabbityDoom wrote: »

xcalibur007 wrote: »

I'm out of the loop of the politics of trade guilds.
I have a few questions about what happened. Whats the message the riots guilds are trying to say? Did they sent out a message or manifesto? Or is everyone just speculating on their message? Do we know for sure if they have a grudge or if they did it as a prank they thought would be funny?

They did make a statement, it's up on reddit somewhere, but in essence it was they had money and wanted to break up the "cartel" of guilds and show the "little guy" how it only took them 7 mil and that they could do it too.

Which is just wrong on every level.

It cost them ~75 million to buy out all the spots.

A perfectly reasonable sum for "little guys" to pay...

MLGProPlayer · May 2019

Tasear wrote: »

It's shameful to the amount of unjustified hate these leaders are getting. I stand my guild BBC and hardworking officers in it.

Uneducated masses spewing conspiracy theories. What else is new?

Tasear · May 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

It's shameful to the amount of unjustified hate these leaders are getting. I stand my guild BBC and hardworking officers in it.

Uneducated masses spewing conspiracy theories. What else is new?

Nothing but if you say nothing people will believe it is true.

MLGProPlayer · May 2019

CipherNine wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

squinquargesimus wrote: »

Guys, it wasn't planned, it was really a situation of some dedicated troll (or group of) doing it to make some sort of statement about cartels and the GMs running to Rimmen asap to get a backup. It wouldn't have made sense to do that as some sort of publicity stunt, especially not when an xpac with tons of new stuff just dropped (and actually, early adopters do shop around this time and pay premium. idk why, but they do: source, me being able to sell new things for three times as much as they were worth two to three weeks earlier for both of the last chapters).

Looked like a very creative buthurt individual to me. Talk about dedication... Blood pressure thru the roof!

Still funny though, considering they also failed miserably after having succeed for such a brief period.

How did they fail? They got the whole fourms including you to talk about it. And we all know those guilds ain't going to make ad mucj gold as they would in their normal spots. On top of that the members pay their stupid high premium to secure a top tier spot and they failed. I hope they don't charge their members for this week.

I also hope this RIOT squad does this again. Good on them.

These greasy GMs sit back and charge out the butt and pocket the gold like crazy. You don't need to charge 500 members 10k a week to get a spot in town. As if theu spend 5,000,000 a week on that trader. They get it every week so you know most guilds don't bother bidding which allows them to drop the bid prove slowly resulting in more $$$ for the pocket.

Yup, then you have the white knights come running to the defense of this stupid system and the defense of the GM's. Acting like the GM's work sooooo hard for them. LOL total bs. They sit back and use all these people to just pocket millions of gold. working hard my ass. lol.

You've never managed a trading guild, have you? I know you haven't. Easy to tell :P

lol oh look there is an example. Nope I haven't and I don't need to. I led a guild in Final Fantasy 11, then WoW and Swtor.
i don't need to lead a trading guild to know exactly why any GM does it. It's a easy way to just use tons of people to pocket millions of gold. Wtf other reason would there be for anyone to want to create a trading guild?

You just outed yourself as a scammer in 3 other games...

MLGProPlayer · May 2019

CipherNine wrote: »

Because they enjoy doing it. Simple as that. The trade guild I am in is very transparent about how much gold comes in and out. The officers spend a lot of their game time organizing raffles, auctions, contests, events and on top of that keep a trader for us to use each week.

This stunt was just that, a stunt. It wasn't a protest nor a demonstration. It was a stunt that will have little or no impact beyond what is taking place in these forums. It accomplished nothing in game except to deny five small guilds a chance at a trader.

Oh enough with this nonsense and bs deflective argument that any of the small guilds ever had a chance at those spots. They had 0 chance. There is a reason there is a monopoly on all the best spots in the game.
Yeah it's like you said..The "officers" spend there game time organizing all that. My point is people acting its the GM's working so hard for them. Sure working hard pocketing 100's of millions of gold.

How exactly do the big-5 guilds block small guilds from bidding on those traders?

Do they go into the homes of the small guild GMs and physically keep them from submitting a bid?

Do they DDOS them right on bid night so they can't bid?

You'll need to explain this to me.

CipherNine · May 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

squinquargesimus wrote: »

Guys, it wasn't planned, it was really a situation of some dedicated troll (or group of) doing it to make some sort of statement about cartels and the GMs running to Rimmen asap to get a backup. It wouldn't have made sense to do that as some sort of publicity stunt, especially not when an xpac with tons of new stuff just dropped (and actually, early adopters do shop around this time and pay premium. idk why, but they do: source, me being able to sell new things for three times as much as they were worth two to three weeks earlier for both of the last chapters).

Looked like a very creative buthurt individual to me. Talk about dedication... Blood pressure thru the roof!

Still funny though, considering they also failed miserably after having succeed for such a brief period.

How did they fail? They got the whole fourms including you to talk about it. And we all know those guilds ain't going to make ad mucj gold as they would in their normal spots. On top of that the members pay their stupid high premium to secure a top tier spot and they failed. I hope they don't charge their members for this week.

I also hope this RIOT squad does this again. Good on them.

These greasy GMs sit back and charge out the butt and pocket the gold like crazy. You don't need to charge 500 members 10k a week to get a spot in town. As if theu spend 5,000,000 a week on that trader. They get it every week so you know most guilds don't bother bidding which allows them to drop the bid prove slowly resulting in more $$$ for the pocket.

Yup, then you have the white knights come running to the defense of this stupid system and the defense of the GM's. Acting like the GM's work sooooo hard for them. LOL total bs. They sit back and use all these people to just pocket millions of gold. working hard my ass. lol.

You've never managed a trading guild, have you? I know you haven't. Easy to tell :P

lol oh look there is an example. Nope I haven't and I don't need to. I led a guild in Final Fantasy 11, then WoW and Swtor.
i don't need to lead a trading guild to know exactly why any GM does it. It's a easy way to just use tons of people to pocket millions of gold. Wtf other reason would there be for anyone to want to create a trading guild?

You just outed yourself as a scammer in 3 other games...

wtf are you even talking about? outed myself as a scammer in 3 other games? That might be the most asinine accusation I have ever read.
How the hell is leading guilds in those other mmo's make me a scammer? wtf are you on?

Wolfkeks · May 2019

sylviermoone wrote: »

Well, let's just say they got the spot with 23 Mil (a bit more than the AUT paid) and that 5 times for all the traders there...
That's 115 Mil for 5 traders, how is that showing love to 'the little guys'?
I don't think the 'little guys' have so much gold lying around.

CipherNine · May 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Because they enjoy doing it. Simple as that. The trade guild I am in is very transparent about how much gold comes in and out. The officers spend a lot of their game time organizing raffles, auctions, contests, events and on top of that keep a trader for us to use each week.

This stunt was just that, a stunt. It wasn't a protest nor a demonstration. It was a stunt that will have little or no impact beyond what is taking place in these forums. It accomplished nothing in game except to deny five small guilds a chance at a trader.

Oh enough with this nonsense and bs deflective argument that any of the small guilds ever had a chance at those spots. They had 0 chance. There is a reason there is a monopoly on all the best spots in the game.
Yeah it's like you said..The "officers" spend there game time organizing all that. My point is people acting its the GM's working so hard for them. Sure working hard pocketing 100's of millions of gold.

How exactly do the big-5 guilds block small guilds from bidding on those traders?

Do they go into the homes of the small guild GMs and physically keep them from submitting a bid?

Do they DDOS them right on bid night so they can't bid?

You'll need to explain this to me.

is it that hard to understand? do you think any of the small guilds ever have the gold to outbid the top guilds for any of the spots? come on stop acting the guild trading system isn't a flawed garbage system.

if ZOS didn't want a central AH. Then they should have just gave each main city a AH. That way EVERYONE has the same opportunity.

Shadowshire · May 2019

SirAndy wrote: »

And how exactly did they all make it to Rimmen?

That would imply that they all had a "fallback" shill bid going in Rimmen ...

PS: The more i think about this, the more i like the R.I.O.T.S. takeover in Rawl'kha

Yes, the Guild probably had one Guild Trader as a "fallback" second choice, insofar as it is better to have almost any Trader than none at all.

Apparently, ZOS allowed Guilds to bid for Traders at locations in Elsweyr, coinciding with its "live" release. So a Trader NPC there might have been the Guild's primary bid, not necessarily a "fallback" choice. (FWIW, I haven't seen the Elsweyr map yet, so I don't know the locations of Guild Traders there.)

The fact that these foolish and hostile pranksters outbid the "trade guilds" for the Trader NPCs at Rawlk'ha implies that those Traders were possibly a secondary choice, perchance the Guild was outbid for a Trader in Elsweyr. So, any "trade guild" that now has a Guild Trader in Elsweyr got what it wanted. But any other "trade guilds" which are usually at Rawlk'ha now have Guild Traders at a "fallback" location.

Some remarks posted in this thread so far imply that the R.I.O.T.S. group also outbid for one or more Guild Trader NPCs in premium Elsweyr locations. However, I have not had any opportunity to attempt to confirm whether there is any factual basis for the rumor.

That said, if you like to think, then keep reading and keep thinking with an open mind.

The Guildmasters did not design the Guild Trader system and the bidding procedure.

The Zenimax Online Services development team designed it, and implemented the design in the software of the game. Evidently their initial plan was to have players sell items in the Guild Store only to other members of the same guild. Think about that for a while. Ponder your experience of "doing business" with recreational partners and personal friends -- that is, if you have any (experience, I mean

).

Most players want to be able to sell an item as soon as possible for as much coin as they can gain. However, a pool of 499 potential buyers is simply too small compared to the enormous number of items which can be acquired, then either traded, bought or sold. ZOS could allow guillds to have more members, but the more there are, the more difficult and time-consuming it becomes for the Guildmaster and officers to manage its operation.

Consequently, the ZOS designers decided to create the Guild Trader system. It is possible to have a large number of NPC Guild Traders, but not an indefinite number because each Trader NPC requires "space" in the game world, consumes storage space in system memory and on hardware media, and requires CPU cycles and networking bandwidth.

ZOS also did not want to limit the number of Guilds which players can organize. No in-game Guild Hall is required, just a chat-channel identifier. Also the Guild Store itself does not have to have a physical location in-game, it just exists in software and hardware memory and storage. Members access their Guild Store via a Banker.

When there are an indefinite number of Guilds, each of which has a Store, but a finite, limited number of Guild Traders, then how do you decide which Guilds will have a Trader to sell goods to non-members, and which ones will not have access to the larger number of potential buyers?

There are several alternatives as to how to decide that. The least costly design to develop which ZOS could think of -- apparently during a lunch break -- was to create one in which Guilds that want a Guild Trader (some do not) must bid Gold Pieces for the services of a specific Trader NPC at a specific in-game location. The highest bidder wins. The "bidding" system is not a live auction, however. ZOS does not want to employ people who would be needed to organize and conduct one.

Of course, there is a risk that the revenue obtained via the Trader will be less than the Guild members bid for the Trader's services. Given the demand for Guild Traders, the bids are substantial for the best locations and expensive even for the most remote Trader NPCs. Ordinarily, a Guild will not gain enough from its share of sales revenue to pay for the Trader. They must require members sell enough above a set amount, or pay dues, and/or the officers must organize and conduct raffles, or conduct auctions of donated items, to acquire enough Gold Pieces for their next bid every seven days.

And, as it has become evident, some fool who organizes a sham Guild and acquires enough Gold Pieces to outbid every authentic Guild for a Guild Trader can exploit that system -- to no one's profit and everyone else's loss. For example, Ronuril at Rawlk'ha usually represents The Angry Unicorn trading guild. This week, that Trader is representing some guild named "Sabotage" which has posted 27 individual Starmetal pieces (which are consumed to craft gear in the Redguard style), at a price of 50,000 GP each.

Such clever satire! Is this kind of "joke" something we all should applaud them for organizaing and effecting? Well, prankers will do pranks. Vandals will vandalize. Thieves will steal. Killers will kill. Life goes on, regardless.

So Guildmasters have no choice except to either play the game as ZOS designed it, or do not play at all. As far as I know, there is no Guildmaster who does not want either to change the current ZOS system, or abandon it altogether for an entirely different one.

Put the responsibility for the way the game must be played on the shoulders of the ones who designed it. Either we play the cards we are dealt, or we don't play. We can offer suggestions and design alternative systems, but it is up to ZOS whether to inve$t the time and effort of a team of skilled workers to develop the game software for an alternative.

By the way, there is an alternative to the Guild Trader system. The Nirn Auction House add-on is available from ESOUI. If you do not like trading via a Guild Store, then maybe NAH will be more satisfactory for you.

MLGProPlayer · May 2019

CipherNine wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Because they enjoy doing it. Simple as that. The trade guild I am in is very transparent about how much gold comes in and out. The officers spend a lot of their game time organizing raffles, auctions, contests, events and on top of that keep a trader for us to use each week.

This stunt was just that, a stunt. It wasn't a protest nor a demonstration. It was a stunt that will have little or no impact beyond what is taking place in these forums. It accomplished nothing in game except to deny five small guilds a chance at a trader.

Oh enough with this nonsense and bs deflective argument that any of the small guilds ever had a chance at those spots. They had 0 chance. There is a reason there is a monopoly on all the best spots in the game.
Yeah it's like you said..The "officers" spend there game time organizing all that. My point is people acting its the GM's working so hard for them. Sure working hard pocketing 100's of millions of gold.

How exactly do the big-5 guilds block small guilds from bidding on those traders?

Do they go into the homes of the small guild GMs and physically keep them from submitting a bid?

Do they DDOS them right on bid night so they can't bid?

You'll need to explain this to me.

is it that hard to understand? do you think any of the small guilds ever have the gold to outbid the top guilds for any of the spots? come on stop acting the guild trading system isn't a flawed garbage system.

if ZOS didn't want a central AH. Then they should have just gave each main city a AH. That way EVERYONE has the same opportunity. but i get it people like monopoly's nowadays.

Whose problem is that?

Every guild started out as a "small guild" and grew. Ska'vyn Exchange started out as a guild in Alik'r. With some good guild management, they eventually grew large enough to get into Rawl'kha last year, displacing ESE.

Instead of crying about not having a good trader, you can try putting in the time to grow your guild.

MLGProPlayer · May 2019

CipherNine wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

squinquargesimus wrote: »

Guys, it wasn't planned, it was really a situation of some dedicated troll (or group of) doing it to make some sort of statement about cartels and the GMs running to Rimmen asap to get a backup. It wouldn't have made sense to do that as some sort of publicity stunt, especially not when an xpac with tons of new stuff just dropped (and actually, early adopters do shop around this time and pay premium. idk why, but they do: source, me being able to sell new things for three times as much as they were worth two to three weeks earlier for both of the last chapters).

Looked like a very creative buthurt individual to me. Talk about dedication... Blood pressure thru the roof!

Still funny though, considering they also failed miserably after having succeed for such a brief period.

How did they fail? They got the whole fourms including you to talk about it. And we all know those guilds ain't going to make ad mucj gold as they would in their normal spots. On top of that the members pay their stupid high premium to secure a top tier spot and they failed. I hope they don't charge their members for this week.

I also hope this RIOT squad does this again. Good on them.

These greasy GMs sit back and charge out the butt and pocket the gold like crazy. You don't need to charge 500 members 10k a week to get a spot in town. As if theu spend 5,000,000 a week on that trader. They get it every week so you know most guilds don't bother bidding which allows them to drop the bid prove slowly resulting in more $$$ for the pocket.

Yup, then you have the white knights come running to the defense of this stupid system and the defense of the GM's. Acting like the GM's work sooooo hard for them. LOL total bs. They sit back and use all these people to just pocket millions of gold. working hard my ass. lol.

You've never managed a trading guild, have you? I know you haven't. Easy to tell :P

lol oh look there is an example. Nope I haven't and I don't need to. I led a guild in Final Fantasy 11, then WoW and Swtor.
i don't need to lead a trading guild to know exactly why any GM does it. It's a easy way to just use tons of people to pocket millions of gold. Wtf other reason would there be for anyone to want to create a trading guild?

You just outed yourself as a scammer in 3 other games...

wtf are you even talking about? outed myself as a scammer in 3 other games? That might be the most asinine accusation I have ever read.
How the hell is leading guilds in those other mmo's make me a scammer? wtf are you on?

You said it yourself. The only reason to make a guild is to make money from your members.

CipherNine · May 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

squinquargesimus wrote: »

Guys, it wasn't planned, it was really a situation of some dedicated troll (or group of) doing it to make some sort of statement about cartels and the GMs running to Rimmen asap to get a backup. It wouldn't have made sense to do that as some sort of publicity stunt, especially not when an xpac with tons of new stuff just dropped (and actually, early adopters do shop around this time and pay premium. idk why, but they do: source, me being able to sell new things for three times as much as they were worth two to three weeks earlier for both of the last chapters).

Looked like a very creative buthurt individual to me. Talk about dedication... Blood pressure thru the roof!

Still funny though, considering they also failed miserably after having succeed for such a brief period.

How did they fail? They got the whole fourms including you to talk about it. And we all know those guilds ain't going to make ad mucj gold as they would in their normal spots. On top of that the members pay their stupid high premium to secure a top tier spot and they failed. I hope they don't charge their members for this week.

I also hope this RIOT squad does this again. Good on them.

These greasy GMs sit back and charge out the butt and pocket the gold like crazy. You don't need to charge 500 members 10k a week to get a spot in town. As if theu spend 5,000,000 a week on that trader. They get it every week so you know most guilds don't bother bidding which allows them to drop the bid prove slowly resulting in more $$$ for the pocket.

Yup, then you have the white knights come running to the defense of this stupid system and the defense of the GM's. Acting like the GM's work sooooo hard for them. LOL total bs. They sit back and use all these people to just pocket millions of gold. working hard my ass. lol.

You've never managed a trading guild, have you? I know you haven't. Easy to tell :P

lol oh look there is an example. Nope I haven't and I don't need to. I led a guild in Final Fantasy 11, then WoW and Swtor.
i don't need to lead a trading guild to know exactly why any GM does it. It's a easy way to just use tons of people to pocket millions of gold. Wtf other reason would there be for anyone to want to create a trading guild?

You just outed yourself as a scammer in 3 other games...

wtf are you even talking about? outed myself as a scammer in 3 other games? That might be the most asinine accusation I have ever read.
How the hell is leading guilds in those other mmo's make me a scammer? wtf are you on?

You said it yourself. The only reason to make a guild is to make money from your members.

lol actually no that is not what I said. you are taking out a few words and changing what i said. which is pointless to do cause what i really said is right there. I said the point of making a "trade guild" is to make gold. but you know that. you was just twisting around what i said in an attempt to call me a scammer in 3 other games with absolutely no proof of that.

MLGProPlayer · May 2019

CipherNine wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

squinquargesimus wrote: »

Guys, it wasn't planned, it was really a situation of some dedicated troll (or group of) doing it to make some sort of statement about cartels and the GMs running to Rimmen asap to get a backup. It wouldn't have made sense to do that as some sort of publicity stunt, especially not when an xpac with tons of new stuff just dropped (and actually, early adopters do shop around this time and pay premium. idk why, but they do: source, me being able to sell new things for three times as much as they were worth two to three weeks earlier for both of the last chapters).

Looked like a very creative buthurt individual to me. Talk about dedication... Blood pressure thru the roof!

Still funny though, considering they also failed miserably after having succeed for such a brief period.

How did they fail? They got the whole fourms including you to talk about it. And we all know those guilds ain't going to make ad mucj gold as they would in their normal spots. On top of that the members pay their stupid high premium to secure a top tier spot and they failed. I hope they don't charge their members for this week.

I also hope this RIOT squad does this again. Good on them.

These greasy GMs sit back and charge out the butt and pocket the gold like crazy. You don't need to charge 500 members 10k a week to get a spot in town. As if theu spend 5,000,000 a week on that trader. They get it every week so you know most guilds don't bother bidding which allows them to drop the bid prove slowly resulting in more $$$ for the pocket.

Yup, then you have the white knights come running to the defense of this stupid system and the defense of the GM's. Acting like the GM's work sooooo hard for them. LOL total bs. They sit back and use all these people to just pocket millions of gold. working hard my ass. lol.

You've never managed a trading guild, have you? I know you haven't. Easy to tell :P

lol oh look there is an example. Nope I haven't and I don't need to. I led a guild in Final Fantasy 11, then WoW and Swtor.
i don't need to lead a trading guild to know exactly why any GM does it. It's a easy way to just use tons of people to pocket millions of gold. Wtf other reason would there be for anyone to want to create a trading guild?

You just outed yourself as a scammer in 3 other games...

wtf are you even talking about? outed myself as a scammer in 3 other games? That might be the most asinine accusation I have ever read.
How the hell is leading guilds in those other mmo's make me a scammer? wtf are you on?

You said it yourself. The only reason to make a guild is to make money from your members.

lol actually no that is not what I said. you are taking out a few words and changing what i said. which is pointless to do cause what i really said is right there. I said the point of making a "trade guild" is to make gold. but you know that. you was just twisting around what i said in an attempt to call me a scammer in 3 other games with absolutely no proof of that.

Where is your proof that the only reason to make a trade guild is to make gold?

MLGProPlayer · May 2019

Wolfkeks wrote: »

sylviermoone wrote: »

Well, let's just say they got the spot with 23 Mil (a bit more than the AUT paid) and that 5 times for all the traders there...
That's 115 Mil for 5 traders, how is that showing love to 'the little guys'?
I don't think the 'little guys' have so much gold lying around.

It's the cartel holding the little guys down.

The bid price would obviously drop to 10,000 gold if guilds like AUT weren't around. There would be no competition for these spots.

vierne · May 2019

CipherNine wrote: »

I led a guild in Final Fantasy 11, then WoW and Swtor.
i don't need to lead a trading guild to know exactly why any GM does it. It's a easy way to just use tons of people to pocket millions of gold. Wtf other reason would there be for anyone to want to create a trading guild?

Those games have centralised auction houses. This is a different animal. What's your point?

I don't know about WOW or FFXI but I know that running a guild on SWTOR takes money out of your pocket, not the other way around as you claim. 'Trading guilds' on SWTOR do not exist. My raiding guild sinks credits into the bank so that the guild can pay for repair funds. A small portion of that is renumerated to them via sale runs and selling raid decos. My social guild (of which I am co-GM) hands out rare cartel market prizes to top conquest earners and we spend a lot of credits decorating our flagship. We also stock up our bank with speeders, armour sets and crafted gear to help out our players. I've never pocketed money and I've never had to because I'm not a scammer.

LukosCreyden · May 2019

Still not sure why people care. If a guild store sells the thing I want, good. If it doesn't, or sells at a dumb price, I shop somewhere else.

If you think your Guild Master is dodgy, tell guildmates then leave.

squinquargesimus · May 2019

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Still not sure why people care. If a guild store sells the thing I want, good. If it doesn't, or sells at a dumb price, I shop somewhere else.

If you think your Guild Master is dodgy, tell guildmates then leave.

The thing is, no one in the affected guilds thinks their GM is dodgy -- other people think those GMs are dodgy based on false assumptions and when the guild members say they're not just respond that we're white knights and, essentially, idiots who let ourselves be scammed by our clearly evil GMs, and they know better because, well, they just do.

@CipherNine, so... The big trading guild GMs are scammers taking their member's gold, because the traders don't actually cost that much, but smaller guilds don't have a chance at those spots because they do cost that much? 🤔 That's a very strange argument.

What I like about this whole discussion is the anti big guilds people complaining that we think we're entitled to these spots (we don't and we know we can lose them every week) but at the same time, smaller guilds that don't have the resources to buy those spots should have them anyway because... reasons? I can understand but liking the way the trading system works and preferring a central auction house / trader, that's fair, but shitting on people who work with the system we have just for doing that seems silly.

(for that matter, everyone who wants to trade seriously can join and do so! I liked to play the market game in swtor so I put on my big boy pants and joined a trading guild when I picked up eso, and the middle sized one I joined first was perfectly adequate for me at that time. People were poor in swtor too because they didn't wanna play the market -- I know, my gf was one of them -- and people are poor here because they don't wanna play the market, sometimes because it involves the extra step of joining a guild. Free spots in trading guilds open up all the time for those that do want, it took me maybe 20 minutes in grahtwood zone chat to get into one once I decided I wanted to, and that was spent waiting for an ad that sounded good, not even actively asking for one. And I did perfectly fine even as a level 18 noob who had been playing for 3 days and had no idea what they were doing.)

Reverb · May 2019

Wolfkeks wrote: »

sylviermoone wrote: »

Well, let's just say they got the spot with 23 Mil (a bit more than the AUT paid) and that 5 times for all the traders there...
That's 115 Mil for 5 traders, how is that showing love to 'the little guys'?
I don't think the 'little guys' have so much gold lying around.

To your point, AUT lost a nearly 23m bid for a spot in Rawl, which no “little guy” guild would have been able to do. Then take it a step further, AUT then got a vacant spot in Windhelm for 10k as we can see in the pic. That’s a spot that the “little guy” guilds would have gotten without the ROIDS stunt. Smaller guilds without traders would have gotten the Rimmen spots.

Every expansion (including Crag and Orsinium) has grown the trader system and given more smaller and upstart guilds a chance to break in. The Elsewyr launch denied those “little guy” guilds this chance because ROIDS spent over 100m (then lied about it) to bump he Rawl guilds without participating in the economy. It would have been better if smaller guilds would have actually banded together to bump us all, because they would actually be selling things and buyers and sellers alike would still benefit.

I’ll add that many members of Rawl guilds also run smaller guilds with traders in lower traffic spots. There’s no conflict, because this game has room for trade guilds at varying levels. And I’ve seen time and time again that if I or another member loses our bid we can go to our Rawl guilds to say so, and our guild mates will help us find an open spot to buy. It doesn’t benefit the Rawl guild, it’s GM/officers, or other members to do so. It helps only our small guilds and members, and they do it gladly.

That’s not a cartel, that’s community.

[Edited to correct spelling errors and autocorrect-invented words]