Skyshards: Are you buying skill points or skill points and achievement?
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mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I want to buy a skyshard factory. Or maybe just visit one.Edited by mairwen85 on May 21, 2019 4:42PM0 -
rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I was going to argue it isn’t pay2win, but some of them used all caps to argue that it is, and there’s no winning against that."Get off my lawn!"5 -
BaylorCorvette✭✭✭✭✭I'm buying a fair bit on my Necro. I'm at a point in my life where my time is valuable and the Skyshards aren't very expensive (IMO), it's worth it for Cyrodiil, Imperial City and other really large zones or zones that are tedious. But if you don't want to buy them you can easily just ride around and collect skyshards should you choose to do that.
People that say it's Pay2Win are just wanting something to complain about. To be able to buy them at all, you had to have done to content in the first place with another character. If my main has max horse speed and ZoS later comes out where I can buy max crown speed in the Crown Store for an alt, is that pay2win? I mean you can pretty much already do that with riding lessons. Skyshards aren't much different.Supreme Leader Corvette - StamSorc
Founder of Dominion Special Forces
YouTube - ESO & Automotive Racing
DC Zerg Busting2 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭BaylorCorvette wrote: »If my main has max horse speed and ZoS later comes out where I can buy max crown speed in the Crown Store for an alt, is that pay2win?
Man, I hate to break it to you, but you can do this. Already. Like today.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub2 -
Zaketh✭✭✭rotaugen454 wrote: »I was going to argue it isn’t pay2win, but some of them used all caps to argue that it is, and there’s no winning against that.
But fi you argued in all caps as well, wouldn't that negate their point of view? Perhaps even rip the very fabric of space/time?NA PS44 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ShadowDisciple wrote: »
IF U CAN BUY SOMETHING THAT WILL GRANT U AN ADVANTAGE OVER OTHER PLAYER BUT U CAN OBTAIN THE SAME THING BY PLAYING THE GAME ITS NOT PAY TO WIN.
I will argue that something can be achievable in game and yet still be P2W if it is designed in such a way that it will take an unreasonable amount of time vs the amount of money that is being asked for the "convenience".
I do not think that the skyshard packs fall under that category.
True.
In fact, I'd say that Mount Training and Crafting Research are much more "P2W" because those purchases shortcut a much larger chunk of time.
You can circumvent 180 days of Mount Training in the Crown Store. Collecting Skyshards doesn't take nearly that long.
Either way, I'm fine with all of these things. First thing I did on my new Necromancer was unlock Craglorn/Summerset/Vvardenfell skyshards for a nice 18 Skill Point boost. One less thing to grind up to get it raid ready.0 -
Vercingetorix✭✭✭✭✭
✭The only skyshard packs IMO that can be argued to be worth getting are the Cyrodiil and Imperial City packs. Those are the only skyshards that can be either locked behind enemy gates or simply interrupted by unwanted pvp interaction. Paying 2900 crowns to grab 58 skyshards without the hassle is an amazing deal for many folks. The only Cyrodiil shard you'd still have to get is the mountain skyshard. You can start a new character with 19.5 skill points and jump straight into power leveling.“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”0 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: »The only skyshard packs IMO that can be argued to be worth getting are the Cyrodiil and Imperial City packs. Those are the only skyshards that can be either locked behind enemy gates or simply interrupted by unwanted pvp interaction. Paying 2900 crowns to grab 58 skyshards without the hassle is an amazing deal for many folks. The only Cyrodiil shard you'd still have to get is the mountain skyshard. You can start a new character with 19.5 skill points and jump straight into power leveling.
I'd also argue that craglorn is a decent buy, as those skyshards are a little tedious. I'm not 100% sure, as I happen to be subbed right now, but it looks like you might be able to buy DLC skyshards without having the DLC (i.e. subscribe, run DLC zones for skyshard achievements on main--it looks like you might be able to buy those DLC skyshards on alts even if you let your sub expire).Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: »The only skyshard packs IMO that can be argued to be worth getting are the Cyrodiil and Imperial City packs. Those are the only skyshards that can be either locked behind enemy gates or simply interrupted by unwanted pvp interaction. Paying 2900 crowns to grab 58 skyshards without the hassle is an amazing deal for many folks. The only Cyrodiil shard you'd still have to get is the mountain skyshard. You can start a new character with 19.5 skill points and jump straight into power leveling.
I'll argue that unless you plan on eventually having all skyshards on an alt, and not only get enough skill points to flesh out their build, there is no advantage in getting the Cyrodiil skyshards over say the AD skyshards. It's all psychological.
Now if you want the achievement, then yes, those would be the most time efficient, along with Craglorn, where all skyshards are inside delves.The Moot Councillor0 -
7788b14_ESO✭✭✭When you look in the store it tells you if you have met the requirements to purchase them. Not for me as I enjoy running around and getting.1 -
Uryel✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheRealPotoroo wrote: »At least one of your characters must have the achievement before others can buy the skyshards for that zone. I'd actually pay for each of my alts to never have to go anywhere near Cyrodiil except that I don't have the last two in each enemy zone, so ZOS have saved me some money.
Damn, I didn't think of that. Thanks mate, I know where to spend my crowns ! Never having to set foot in Cyrodiil ever again is totally worth spending some bucks.1 -
Mik195✭✭✭✭✭Its pay-2-win.
Period.
I don't want to hear any more arguments about "convenience" ... if you have money - you can unlock immediately every skyshard in the game for your character, new or old. You immediately by doing that surpass veteran players who have been unlocking them for years all because you have the financial means to do so.
That is the definition of p2win.
Ok, here's a compromise. Let's remove skyshards from the store and ban all skyshard, treasure chest, and node add-ons to keep things fair.0 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »@peacenote
Alts do get the achievement when you buy skyshard packs.
I have 2 level 3 toons wearing "Craglorn Skyshard Hunter."
@DeadlyRecluse Thank you!!!!! I am glad my question was answered before my topic was locked for off-topicness, through no fault of my own.
Very insightful!
It is not the answer I was hoping to hear, as I feel that this is another decision that perpetuates inconsistent game logic. Why can we use dyes across accounts but not show those achievements across characters when the achievement is associated with the dye?? Why not make ALL account-bound rewards with associated achievements follow all characters, so at least I can start an alt and show that I am a decent player on that alt?
This drives me crazy. If skyshards are up for sale, I'd prefer that the REASON people want to buy them are sold (skill points), not the actual achievement of running around and getting them... but at least I know the answer.
Lastly, I am a bit disappointed that more people don't even seem to acknowledge the difference between buying skill points and buying an achievement... maybe I am too old-fashioned. But while I'd prefer not being able to buy the skyshards at all, which I think helps encourage interactions between experienced players making alts and new players, if we have reached the point where this must be so, the achievement piece could still have been a separate item.
Edited by peacenote on May 22, 2019 2:46AM1 -
ShadowDisciple✭✭✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »@peacenote
Alts do get the achievement when you buy skyshard packs.
I have 2 level 3 toons wearing "Craglorn Skyshard Hunter."
@DeadlyRecluse Thank you!!!!! I am glad my question was answered before my topic was locked for off-topicness, through no fault of my own. Very insightful!
It is not the answer I was hoping to hear, as I feel that this is another decision that perpetuates inconsistent game logic. Why can we use dyes across accounts but not show those achievements across characters when the achievement is associated with the dye?? Why not make ALL account-bound rewards with associated achievements follow all characters, so at least I can start an alt and show that I am a decent player on that alt?
This drives me crazy. If skyshards are up for sale, I'd prefer that the REASON people want to buy them are sold (skill points), not the actual achievement of running around and getting them... but at least I know the answer.
Lastly, I am a bit disappointed that more people don't even seem to acknowledge the difference between buying skill points and buying an achievement... maybe I am too old-fashioned. But while I'd prefer not being able to buy the skyshards at all, which I think helps encourage interactions between experienced players making alts and new players, if we have reached the point where this must be so, the achievement piece could still have been a separate item.
Ur not wrong...but collecting skyshards isnt exactly Flawless Conqueror in VMA....skyshard acvhievments are barely an "achievment"....it literally just says "i rode a horse and gathered glowing stones"....thats what u achieved...
NOT TO MENTION...u already had to do it on at least 1 character...so you actually achieved it once...
Every game has account bound Achievments....but not ESO...in ESO u have to save Bleakrock isle on every character
Blood for the Pact!1 -
Shadowshire✭✭✭✭
Well, your "definition" of Pay-To-Win is correct. However, that is not quite what the promotion for Purchase Skyshards Achievement says:Its pay-2-win.
Period.
I don't want to hear any more arguments about "convenience" ... if you have money - you can unlock immediately every skyshard in the game for your character, new or old. You immediately by doing that surpass veteran players who have been unlocking them for years all because you have the financial means to do so.
That is the definition of p2win.
Purchase Skyshards Achievement
--- Shadowshire .......... ESO Plus on PC NA with Windows 7 Pro SP1
nil carborundum illegitimi0 -
Shadowshire✭✭✭✭
Admittedly, purchasing the Skill Points for all the skyshards in Cyrodiil appears to be a perfectly understandable alternative to actually sending every character there to acquire them in the course of play. That is, understandable if you are not a PvP player. But it is probably an especially revolting development if your PvP character is mostly used for "ganking" characters whose players are not particularly interested in and/or prepared for PvP, but want to pursue PvE in Cyrodiil nonetheless.TheRealPotoroo wrote: »At least one of your characters must have the achievement before others can buy the skyshards for that zone. I'd actually pay for each of my alts to never have to go anywhere near Cyrodiil except that I don't have the last two in each enemy zone, so ZOS have saved me some money.
--- Shadowshire .......... ESO Plus on PC NA with Windows 7 Pro SP1
nil carborundum illegitimi0 -
Shadowshire✭✭✭✭
All Skyshards in Craglorn are not inside Delves.Vercingetorix wrote: »The only skyshard packs IMO that can be argued to be worth getting are the Cyrodiil and Imperial City packs. Those are the only skyshards that can be either locked behind enemy gates or simply interrupted by unwanted pvp interaction. Paying 2900 crowns to grab 58 skyshards without the hassle is an amazing deal for many folks. The only Cyrodiil shard you'd still have to get is the mountain skyshard. You can start a new character with 19.5 skill points and jump straight into power leveling.
I'll argue that unless you plan on eventually having all skyshards on an alt, and not only get enough skill points to flesh out their build, there is no advantage in getting the Cyrodiil skyshards over say the AD skyshards. It's all psychological.
Now if you want the achievement, then yes, those would be the most time efficient, along with Craglorn, where all skyshards are inside delves.
All Skyshards in Cyrodiil -- outside of the Imperial City DLC sub-zone -- are accessible to any character whose player wants to acquire them and convert them to Skill Points. As far as I know, all Skyshards in The Imperial City are also accessible to any player-character regardless of the Alliance of which that player-character is a member.
Beware, though, that since Cyrodiil and The Imperial City are PvP zones, any character which a player sends to them is subject to attack by another player's character without provocation or warning -- when the other player's character does not belong to the same Alliance as the character which the player sends hunting for the Skyshards. They are mortal enemies.
Other PvE activities in Cyrodiil and The Imperial City -- such as completing quests and conquering Dolmens -- are also possible for any player's character. But, of course, every player character in TESO is a member of one of the three Alliances, each of which is hostile to the others. So, if nothing else, it is safer to for a character to form a group with at least two or three other characters who are in the same Alliance, then pursue Skyshard hunting and other PvE activities as a group.
Regardless, the player(s )and their character(s) must be prepared to engage in PvP combat with any other player's character that is a member of an enemy alliance. Losing a fight and resurrecting at an available Wayshrine can lead to spending a lot of extra time and effort to accomplish the player's PvE goals, such as hunting for all of the Skyshards in those two zones.
--- Shadowshire .......... ESO Plus on PC NA with Windows 7 Pro SP1
nil carborundum illegitimi1 -
Shadowshire✭✭✭✭
The real-money cost of the Crowns is, by all account, $29.00 per purchase, i.e., per character. That is not particularly affordable for many TESO players. Which is also true for many of the Homesteads, aside from whether they are bought furnished.TheRealPotoroo wrote: »At least one of your characters must have the achievement before others can buy the skyshards for that zone. I'd actually pay for each of my alts to never have to go anywhere near Cyrodiil except that I don't have the last two in each enemy zone, so ZOS have saved me some money.
Damn, I didn't think of that. Thanks mate, I know where to spend my crowns ! Never having to set foot in Cyrodiil ever again is totally worth spending some bucks.
--- Shadowshire .......... ESO Plus on PC NA with Windows 7 Pro SP1
nil carborundum illegitimi0 -
perolord✭✭✭IF someone wants to buy, let him buy
...
I will not buy it, because i get them all during quests...but if someone wants to buy it, well...1 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Its pay-2-win.
Period.
I don't want to hear any more arguments about "convenience" ... if you have money - you can unlock immediately every skyshard in the game for your character, new or old. You immediately by doing that surpass veteran players who have been unlocking them for years all because you have the financial means to do so.
That is the definition of p2win.
Okaaayyy....except you actually have to unlock all of them on at least one character first. So you've spent X amount of time finding them all yourself. With the exception of Cyrodiil, especially on pc, it really doesn't take long to find them all again on an alt, so, whatever.
Please explain what you win if you first find all the skyshards, and then buy them for an alt so you don't have to run around again. Emperor? Uber Juggernaut of Destruction? Other players die instantly when you twitch your pinkie finger in their general direction? What *does* buying all the skyshards AFTER you've already gotten all the achievements on one character by finding them in the first place get you? What do you win?1 -
lord_dal✭✭✭yes, I love questing, exploring, I HATE pvp, got the pvp skyshards on my main, so I will get those on my alts, but I will not buy any pve skyshards.0
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Androconium✭✭✭✭✭
✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »@peacenote
Alts do get the achievement when you buy skyshard packs.
I have 2 level 3 toons wearing "Craglorn Skyshard Hunter."
I couldn't see why you wouldn't get them.0 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »@peacenote
Alts do get the achievement when you buy skyshard packs.
I have 2 level 3 toons wearing "Craglorn Skyshard Hunter."
DeadlyRecluse Thank you!!!!! I am glad my question was answered before my topic was locked for off-topicness, through no fault of my own. Very insightful!
It is not the answer I was hoping to hear, as I feel that this is another decision that perpetuates inconsistent game logic. Why can we use dyes across accounts but not show those achievements across characters when the achievement is associated with the dye?? Why not make ALL account-bound rewards with associated achievements follow all characters, so at least I can start an alt and show that I am a decent player on that alt?
This drives me crazy. If skyshards are up for sale, I'd prefer that the REASON people want to buy them are sold (skill points), not the actual achievement of running around and getting them... but at least I know the answer.
I can only speak for myself, but I don't think anyone is buying them for the achievement--they aren't exactly high prestige achievements. I just wanted the skill points, lol.
I think there would be an issue if you DIDN'T reward the achievement--then that character could never gather the skyshards and never get the achievement. I guess they could have made it so you get the skill points/shard credit, but can still "discover" them, but that would require a pretty significant rework of how skyshards work.Androconium wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »
Alts do get the achievement when you buy skyshard packs.
I have 2 level 3 toons wearing "Craglorn Skyshard Hunter."
I couldn't see why you wouldn't get them.
As I mention above, I'd go as far as to say I don't see a way for you to NOT get them. It would kinda break the achievement if you got the shards without it.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub1 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes, that alt gets the achievement because they are getting the skyshards. If you have all the skyshards, you have the achievement. Why is the achievement something to stress over?
Geez, the things people allow to make them unhappy. There isn't even a leaderboard for achievement points. The only thing anyone would notice is any unlocked dyes, and those would have already been unlocked on the first character to get the achievement.1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nope. not buying them. i AM using them as a guide of what I'm missing on alts, since they are all unlocked for purchase via my main so whenever I see something that is not grayed out on alt, I know at a glance that I can go there and finish it up, which is especially relevant when I realized just how many super easy starting zone skyshards i'm missing inexplicably on some of themdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭nope. not buying them. i AM using them as a guide of what I'm missing on alts, since they are all unlocked for purchase via my main so whenever I see something that is not grayed out on alt, I know at a glance that I can go there and finish it up, which is especially relevant when I realized just how many super easy starting zone skyshards i'm missing inexplicably on some of them
The zone guide has skyshards as well.2 -
agegarton✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you buy a skyshards pack, your character will receive the associated skill points and the associated achievement. Confirmed.
And it's not a "pay to win" issue, but there's little point arguing with people who want to rant about anything that gets listed in the Crown Store.
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