Honestly no, we just need better thought out progression system. Your suggestion undermining long term players like myself. I already don't feel progression for 2 years now since I reach cap. It's more of annoyance added extra cost when we got it then yeah can do new things.
Honestly no, we just need better thought out progression system. Your suggestion undermining long term players like myself. I already don't feel progression for 2 years now since I reach cap. It's more of annoyance added extra cost when we got it then yeah can do new things.
Darkstorne wrote: »CP isn’t the main cause of power creep. It’s a contributor, but there are much bigger factors. Gear colours provide much bigger steps in power - upgrading your weapon from blue to purple, or purple to gold, for example, makes a colossal difference. Two full 5 piece sets and a 2 piece monster or weapon set, compared to an equal level player equipping whatever gear they find naturally, is another huge difference in power. CP is fairly balanced in comparison, but when you add all those systems together it leads to a huge difference.
Personally, I’d like to see gear colours make a smaller difference, and leave CP and set bonuses as they are. But the rebalancing required to make that work will be tricky. Especially in harder dungeons like Fang Lair / Scalecaller.
I kinda miss Veteran Levels.
Darkstorne wrote: »CP isn’t the main cause of power creep. It’s a contributor, but there are much bigger factors. Gear colours provide much bigger steps in power - upgrading your weapon from blue to purple, or purple to gold, for example, makes a colossal difference. Two full 5 piece sets and a 2 piece monster or weapon set, compared to an equal level player equipping whatever gear they find naturally, is another huge difference in power. CP is fairly balanced in comparison, but when you add all those systems together it leads to a huge difference.
Personally, I’d like to see gear colours make a smaller difference, and leave CP and set bonuses as they are. But the rebalancing required to make that work will be tricky. Especially in harder dungeons like Fang Lair / Scalecaller.
Fundamentally disagree there. Yes, gear level is important, but even gold gear is scaled to 160. Gold gear doesn't get more powerful with every DLC. That's not to say that reducing the differences between gear colours, as you suggest, might be a good idea. But the primary issue with power creep is the CP cap level increases.
Agreed. I would add that making two handed weapons count as 2-pieces (especially staves), allowing for all staff wielding characters to add a 2nd 5-piece set was huge. There have also been some sets added to the game which have increased dps substantially (sororia and relequin come to mind). Go back to pre-Summerset and everyone’s dps goes down 10kDarkstorne wrote: »CP isn’t the main cause of power creep. It’s a contributor, but there are much bigger factors. Gear colours provide much bigger steps in power - upgrading your weapon from blue to purple, or purple to gold, for example, makes a colossal difference. Two full 5 piece sets and a 2 piece monster or weapon set, compared to an equal level player equipping whatever gear they find naturally, is another huge difference in power. CP is fairly balanced in comparison, but when you add all those systems together it leads to a huge difference.
Personally, I’d like to see gear colours make a smaller difference, and leave CP and set bonuses as they are. But the rebalancing required to make that work will be tricky. Especially in harder dungeons like Fang Lair / Scalecaller.
Fundamentally disagree there. Yes, gear level is important, but even gold gear is scaled to 160. Gold gear doesn't get more powerful with every DLC. That's not to say that reducing the differences between gear colours, as you suggest, might be a good idea. But the primary issue with power creep is the CP cap level increases.
CP is far from the main culprit for power creep. From a PvE perspective, all CP added over a year of updates will cause a DPS increase of maybe 7-10% at best. You tell me where the rest of the "powercreep" comes from.......
People highly overestimate CP when it comes to powercreep and fail to realise that the majority of powercreep comes from the changes ZOS does to other combat related mechanics. An example of this is how ZOS buffed light attacks in summerset or made enchants more potent with Murkmire so they could proc more reliable, or when they did a major overhaul to how off-balance works with wrathstone. These 3 changes alone have had more impact on powercreep than CP will ever have.
Darkstorne wrote: »CP isn’t the main cause of power creep. It’s a contributor, but there are much bigger factors. Gear colours provide much bigger steps in power - upgrading your weapon from blue to purple, or purple to gold, for example, makes a colossal difference. Two full 5 piece sets and a 2 piece monster or weapon set, compared to an equal level player equipping whatever gear they find naturally, is another huge difference in power. CP is fairly balanced in comparison, but when you add all those systems together it leads to a huge difference.
Personally, I’d like to see gear colours make a smaller difference, and leave CP and set bonuses as they are. But the rebalancing required to make that work will be tricky. Especially in harder dungeons like Fang Lair / Scalecaller.
Fundamentally disagree there. Yes, gear level is important, but even gold gear is scaled to 160. Gold gear doesn't get more powerful with every DLC. That's not to say that reducing the differences between gear colours, as you suggest, might be a good idea. But the primary issue with power creep is the CP cap level increases.
CP is far from the main culprit for power creep. From a PvE perspective, all CP added over a year of updates will cause a DPS increase of maybe 7-10% at best. You tell me where the rest of the "powercreep" comes from.......
People highly overestimate CP when it comes to powercreep and fail to realise that the majority of powercreep comes from the changes ZOS does to other combat related mechanics. An example of this is how ZOS buffed light attacks in summerset or made enchants more potent with Murkmire so they could proc more reliable, or when they did a major overhaul to how off-balance works with wrathstone. These 3 changes alone have had more impact on powercreep than CP will ever have.
ThanatosXR wrote: »What power creep? Ive played I million mmos, rs, lotro, rift, swtor , and they had major stat inflation. The problem is people dont seem to know all abot the champion stars and end up putting them in the wrong place
I'd be happy for them to remove 160 CP points. In fact, it might even be required in order to remove the CP system if that is their intention.
Items are Level 50, CP 160. If they were to double the level to 100, and remove CP they would be able to successfully depeg items from the CP system.
It should have no consequence on a fully leveled character with CP160 gear, and no actual consequence (other than a bit of confusion) on a sub 50 character.
How it works is, everyones base level doubles, as does their item level. Level 30? You are now level 60. Level 50? Now level 100.
160 CP points could be deducted from every bodies account at that point. MAX CP is now 650.
Going forward, characters have to level to 100 rather than 50. It would take a bit longer to level alts. They could even have 100 attribute points (same output as what 64 presently gives).
For CP to be removed cleanly, CP needs to be depegged from items without significant consequence to players.
It would also make the 10 tiers of mats relevant again. Although I think they should be trimmed to 5 tiers in 20 level increments rather than 10 in 10 level. Eg. Iron 1-20, Steel 21-40, Orc 41-60, Dwarf 61-80, Ebony 81-100, scrap the rest.
As people lose CP but gain base level they may not feel robbed and be fine with it. However, if ZOS wanted to ease the subtraction of 160 points, they could roll some perks together, ie Mooncalf / Arcanist benefit are put under one perk. Full stam builds won't benefit greatly, nor will mag builds benefit. Hybrid builds will get a little bump though. Light / Med / Heavy can be rolled into one too, as people cant wear 5 piece of each type at any given time.
End result. CP cap lowered, Items depegged from CP, CP system shrunk down a bit. Progression of players has not been attacked or robbed in any significant way. The game is now ready for a controlled demolition and replacement of the CP system.
This whole thread is invalid, your entire premise the CP has caused power creep and that CP is therefore bad is wrong at every point.So power creep has become such a problem with the Champion Point system that they've been frozen. Obviously I have no idea what ZOS's solution will be, but how about just lowering the CP cap?
*cries of horror ensue*
Okay, so hear me out.
- The base game is scaled to CP160 difficulty.
- Each DLC raised the max CP level by 30.
- There have been 13 DLCs to date.
- 13x30=390; 390+160=550
- However, the current CP cap is 810.
- That's (810-550=260) CP points which are not tied to DLC at all.
- So, slash them.
- Reduce the CP cap to 160+(number of DLC x 30).
That doesn't mean max level players should lose those CPs, but they should be in 'reserve', as any CP points over 810 currently are. Nobody loses CP, but the amount you can spend is lowered.
This proposal would mean that there would still be some room to expand the CP points in the future: with the current release schedule of 4 DLC a year, it would take just over 2 more years (8/9 DLC) to return to the current level. Which, if nothing else, would give some breathing room for a more permanent solution.
Or a more radical reduction could take place, by reducing the CP increase from 30 to 20. Yes, I know that you get 30 because that's 10 for each of the three branches. But 20 also makes sense in a way, insofar as 160 is divisible by 20 and not 30.
With that more radical solution, you'd have a CP cap of 160+(13x20=260)=420. That would take about 19/20 more DLC to return to the current level, about 5 years of content.
In either case, this would be a solution which left the current system in place by changing as little as possible, while reducing the impact of power creep.
(In case anyone is wondering, I have 950 CP, so the change I'm proposing would absolutely affect me).
I think I'd like if CP were changed to be more of a perk system.
Basically like those perks you get at 30, 75, 120 etc, but tweaked and made to be the main focus of CP. No incremental bonuses, and you don't have to put X amount of CP in a tree to get the perks, but instead "buy" the perks directly.
The 75 one would cost 75 CP to unlock, the 120 one would cost 120 to unlock - there maybe could be branches that you have to go through to get to the better ones at the end like in Skyrim, but not necessarily. I think it could work either way. Maybe.
But furthermore, the bonuses wouldn't all be combat related, and a bunch could be purely utility or quality of life things that are helpful and desiresble but won't increase your damage, healing, defense, or sustain directly. There could still be some, though.
Think of some perks like we have now where you collect resources faster, or have a chance to collect multiple, or better chances of rare loot in chests, or the one where mount stamina doesn't drain except from taking damage. A lot more of those types of things. They could do a lot with that and I think it would be more interesting than what we have now, and increasing the CP max then wouldn't have this power creep feeling like we do now, but would instead help you get "just enough" for that other perk point you were just a little off of obtaining, and would be a nice quality of life boon.
Darkstorne wrote: »CP isn’t the main cause of power creep. It’s a contributor, but there are much bigger factors. Gear colours provide much bigger steps in power - upgrading your weapon from blue to purple, or purple to gold, for example, makes a colossal difference. Two full 5 piece sets and a 2 piece monster or weapon set, compared to an equal level player equipping whatever gear they find naturally, is another huge difference in power. CP is fairly balanced in comparison, but when you add all those systems together it leads to a huge difference.
Personally, I’d like to see gear colours make a smaller difference, and leave CP and set bonuses as they are. But the rebalancing required to make that work will be tricky. Especially in harder dungeons like Fang Lair / Scalecaller.
Fundamentally disagree there. Yes, gear level is important, but even gold gear is scaled to 160. Gold gear doesn't get more powerful with every DLC. That's not to say that reducing the differences between gear colours, as you suggest, might be a good idea. But the primary issue with power creep is the CP cap level increases.
Bad idea....how about just lowering the CP cap?