Slash CP cap?

mjharper

Wow, this sort of blew up when I wasn't paying attention.

So basically nobody likes the idea. Okay

(I still do).

mairwen85

richo262 wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Just make cp system something like gold earn or some *** that doesnt matter.

Yep, I have no problem with it becoming a currency, if it is used to buy QOL things (Food bag, Pot bag, Poison bag, Soul gem bag, Siege bag, Furniture bag etc [with double storage / unlimited for ESO+]) it will have no effect on damage / defense or balance generally.

Certain elements could be incorporated via extension to the current system. Rather than devolve it, open up the passive stars for further investment, add new stars for Qol, like mercantile, carry weight, mount speed.

More bags for inventory separation and management is a different issue. It wouldn't be wise to entangle it with CP.

richo262

mairwen85 wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Just make cp system something like gold earn or some *** that doesnt matter.

Yep, I have no problem with it becoming a currency, if it is used to buy QOL things (Food bag, Pot bag, Poison bag, Soul gem bag, Siege bag, Furniture bag etc [with double storage / unlimited for ESO+]) it will have no effect on damage / defense or balance generally.

Certain elements could be incorporated via extension to the current system. Rather than devolve it, open up the passive stars for further investment, add new stars for Qol, like mercantile, carry weight, mount speed.

More bags for inventory separation and management is a different issue. It wouldn't be wise to entangle it with CP.

What I would mean by it is, scrap the CP system entirely, bring in 'X' system (CP converts to X). As you level you get 'X Points'. You can cash those in like crowns. Have a crown store for $$ purchases, have an X store for X Point purchases'. One rewards those who support ZOS with $$, the other rewards those that play the game. X store is not the crown store, different items, designed for QOL.

Just like the crown store, you cannot purchase anything that improves your character in combat. So there is no game enhancing benefit from X other than the QOL improvements you can buy with them, such as the bags.

End up with a 'Craft Bag' for those that support ZOS with $$ and a 'CraftED Bag' for those that earn it.

EchoesofThunder

While many players might hate this idea, a lot of the problem with creep would go away - if champion points had to be earned on each character, rather than handed out for free once a character reaches level 50.

killahsin

oh good lord will people stop complaining about power creep, at 3600 cp you will be exactly where you were before they nerfed everyone to implement the champion system. This is the first community i have ever seen that willingly took a 30% nerf to the power gap of the game to implement a post cap 'champion system' and then begged the dev team to stop letting them get back to where they were before they nerfed everyone 30% to release the champion system. Amazing.

Noctus

frostz417 wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

im over the cp cap i dont care if they remove cp it just creates imbalance pvp and pve wise. many tanks just run vets with 3 dps these days. who needs healers when u have cp lol.

Very ignorant comment. People don’t run 3dps and tank because of cp. they do it due to lazy dungeon design consisting of nothing but 1 shot mechanics and the fact that there’s so many overpowered sets like earthgore or bogdan, why need a healer? When my sets can do the healing for me?

Saying cp is the cause of powercreep is the most ignorant thing you can say on these forums. It clearly shows you do no research nor do you actually participate in any end game content.

wow when even alcast stated that cp is the cause of powercreep in the video where he did black rose prison then ur arrogance hits a new lvl today. he even had videos way back then stating how cp negatively influencing pvp btw.

so let me be clear. u say : nerf sets and all power to cp. nice way killing variety in the game.

every healer and their mothers know becouse of the bloated stats we have through cp that we are overhealing all the time with never ending resources so what else is there to make dungeons challenging if not through 1 shot mechanics.

im not using a single procset in my tankbuild and im healing ppl through aoe dmg im healing myself and im holding aggro in any vet dungeon and its also possible in black rose prison.
im not something special for doing so there are many many other tanks that can do it too.

im even sure im not that much of a good tank never min maxed that kind of stuff and my capped out crutch points just carry me through.

if we would have a system similar to path of exile passive tree it would be great but at this current state its just pure stat increase especially in the defense and healing capabilities. its a boring and unbalanced system.

exeeter702

frostz417 wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

im over the cp cap i dont care if they remove cp it just creates imbalance pvp and pve wise. many tanks just run vets with 3 dps these days. who needs healers when u have cp lol.

Very ignorant comment. People don’t run 3dps and tank because of cp. they do it due to lazy dungeon design consisting of nothing but 1 shot mechanics and the fact that there’s so many overpowered sets like earthgore or bogdan, why need a healer? When my sets can do the healing for me?

Saying cp is the cause of powercreep is the most ignorant thing you can say on these forums. It clearly shows you do no research nor do you actually participate in any end game content.

Throwing around "ignorant" isnt going to make you statement any less false.

Cp is absolutely statistically a key contributor to power creep in how it directly effects content design. Its not even a discussion. Its possible you may not understand what power creep actually means and how it fundamentally effects any rpg with any form of vertical power progression.

Skwor

Noctus wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

im over the cp cap i dont care if they remove cp it just creates imbalance pvp and pve wise. many tanks just run vets with 3 dps these days. who needs healers when u have cp lol.

Very ignorant comment. People don’t run 3dps and tank because of cp. they do it due to lazy dungeon design consisting of nothing but 1 shot mechanics and the fact that there’s so many overpowered sets like earthgore or bogdan, why need a healer? When my sets can do the healing for me?

Saying cp is the cause of powercreep is the most ignorant thing you can say on these forums. It clearly shows you do no research nor do you actually participate in any end game content.

wow when even alcast stated that cp is the cause of powercreep in the video where he did black rose prison then ur arrogance hits a new lvl today. he even had videos way back then stating how cp negatively influencing pvp btw.

so let me be clear. u say : nerf sets and all power to cp. nice way killing variety in the game.

every healer and their mothers know becouse of the bloated stats we have through cp that we are overhealing all the time with never ending resources so what else is there to make dungeons challenging if not through 1 shot mechanics.

im not using a single procset in my tankbuild and im healing ppl through aoe dmg im healing myself and im holding aggro in any vet dungeon and its also possible in black rose prison.
im not something special for doing so there are many many other tanks that can do it too.

im even sure im not that much of a good tank never min maxed that kind of stuff and my capped out crutch points just carry me through.

if we would have a system similar to path of exile passive tree it would be great but at this current state its just pure stat increase especially in the defense and healing capabilities. its a boring and unbalanced system.

Learn to think for youself. CP is not a major contributor into power creep.

Power creep is not a problem in and of itself. In a healthy MMO power creep is better known as progression and without it most will run from this game like it was a diaper dumpster fire.

CP is nothing compared to OP sets that easily over perform with 0 CP. One shot mechanics have become the bane of good encounters and are lazy mechanics used to avoid real dungeon/raid combat that makes the fight feel fun and powerful.

One shots makes a player feel like a lottery winner and it is getting old.

Remove vertical progression and you will see a serious loss of players becuase the game will become pointless in what most play for.

Noctus

Skwor wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

im over the cp cap i dont care if they remove cp it just creates imbalance pvp and pve wise. many tanks just run vets with 3 dps these days. who needs healers when u have cp lol.

Very ignorant comment. People don’t run 3dps and tank because of cp. they do it due to lazy dungeon design consisting of nothing but 1 shot mechanics and the fact that there’s so many overpowered sets like earthgore or bogdan, why need a healer? When my sets can do the healing for me?

Saying cp is the cause of powercreep is the most ignorant thing you can say on these forums. It clearly shows you do no research nor do you actually participate in any end game content.

wow when even alcast stated that cp is the cause of powercreep in the video where he did black rose prison then ur arrogance hits a new lvl today. he even had videos way back then stating how cp negatively influencing pvp btw.

so let me be clear. u say : nerf sets and all power to cp. nice way killing variety in the game.

every healer and their mothers know becouse of the bloated stats we have through cp that we are overhealing all the time with never ending resources so what else is there to make dungeons challenging if not through 1 shot mechanics.

im not using a single procset in my tankbuild and im healing ppl through aoe dmg im healing myself and im holding aggro in any vet dungeon and its also possible in black rose prison.
im not something special for doing so there are many many other tanks that can do it too.

im even sure im not that much of a good tank never min maxed that kind of stuff and my capped out crutch points just carry me through.

if we would have a system similar to path of exile passive tree it would be great but at this current state its just pure stat increase especially in the defense and healing capabilities. its a boring and unbalanced system.

Remove vertical progression and you will see a serious loss of players becuase the game will become pointless in what most play for.

by that logic people with 810 cp quit the game. we can easily fix the cp dilema by adding - minus stats in the right places. for example .....

ur investing in increased healing ur defenses will go down by x ammount or ur self heal.

this would help to keep stats healthy for the game pve and pvp wise. that kind of progression have been used all over the place in gaming industry. (maybe we should also gain less of a boost for each point but just maybe on this)

what u suggested (cutting the stats of gear) could help too but the 5th set piece bonus gotta stay somewhat potent for variety reasons.

DeadlyRecluse

I'd rather they just leave it capped until they figure out a long-term, sustainable solution.

810 is a awkward number, though. Wish they'd adjust the values again and set the cap at a nice, round 1000 (which obviously leaves you with one extra point in a constellation, but looks cleaner than 810).

barney2525

richo262 wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

First off, you are not explaining why you say "leveling to 50 doesn't take long". You just running Dolmens? Just running dungeons? You are certainly Not following the questlines and playing the majority of the game, because the simple fact of Time it takes to move from point A to point B, stop and deal with things like Inventory and making new gear when needed,, pick up mats from nodes, mage books, etc, precludes getting to 50 in a "short amount of time". I know it may come as a surprise, but there are a number of players who want to actually Enjoy the game while leveling.

No, running dolmens would level in a day.Yes, following quest lines. When I level an alt I run every dungeon as a tank and the main quest, for all the skill points. I also run crag for a nirn item. I'll also run Psijic for shards / lore books and the skill line.

Making new gear? I thought you said 'new casual players'. Be consistent, now they are leveling an alt that relies on their main to craft gear?

I adopted a wow noob 3 days ago, his first character, he is already level 37. I made him one set at level 16.

In any event, so what if leveling your first character takes twice as long? There is twice the content in the game.

barney2525 wrote: »

Now you want to jump it up to 100 levels. Every single level will require more XP than the previous level. Total XP for level 50 is 2.8 Million required. 49 to 50 requires 187, 494, about 9000 more than 48 to 49. So going to 51 will take about 197000 more, as we keep adding on based on the previous level and the additional interest, so to speak.

There you again, making things up. I'll repeat my position from my last response because what I say, and what you screech back you seem to think is relevant.

You could take it as, when I said 'leveling to 100 shouldn't take much longer', what I actually mean is, 'leveling to 100 shouldn't take much longer'. Duh.

I'll make it clearer, 'leveling to 100 shouldn't take much longer'. Now, you are more than welcome to pretend I said, 'leveling to 100 should take much longer' but you would in fact be reading things I did not say.

barney2525 wrote: »

There is literally no basis for your suggestion that less XP will be required between levels after 50 is a possibility. The system they use is already in place, set in stone. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Leveling

It makes no sense that the company would suddenly say, OK, after level 50 the XP requirement declines every level.

You are Not starting with 70 XP = 1 level gain, like at level 1. You are continuing to stack the XP required on to level 50. It won't take 5.6 million to reach level 100. It will probably take between 10 and 15 Million XP, at a minimum. Where, in the game, is all this XP coming from? There is No way they are going change the questline XP. Whatever you can get now with all your xp buffs, (For example - 30,000 XP), is still the max you could get as you pass level 50. So it will take MANY more quests/dungeons/dolmens etc to grind all the way up to level 100.

OR, you don't do that. You could actually, ahem... let me repeat myself here, 'leveling to 100 shouldn't take much longer'.

You mean like how CP points start to hit a base line for XP required to get to the next level? How they do not exponentially increase in XP required? It's some sort of sorcery isn't it?

Okay, so what you do is, you reduce the stack between levels, so the time it takes to get to level 50 for the average player using both hands (about 1 week), the player, using some sort of sorcery (clearly not fathomable by you thus far) actually ends up being about level 75 with the SAME XP. Then, wait for it, this is where it will blow your mind. The path from level 75 - 100 does not exponentially grow at the ridiculous proportions you have irrationally concluded that I support.

barney2525 wrote: »

On the other hand, are you suggesting they will completely revamp the system and make going up levels require less XP, so the characters progress faster? What would the point be? If the character can reach 100 as fast as they used to reach 50, what was the purpose for changing it? Is it simply to flood the characters with skill points so that they don't even have anything to spend them all on?

What you never say anything about is - What do the characters get as they go up from 51 to 100? New Skills? New Passives? Or is it 50 levels of skill points and Nothing new to spend them on?

Okay, so now it feels like we're having the same conversation, great. So, the purpose, as was clearly stated, is to remove CP from items giving ZOS the lee-way to redesign CP how they wish.

50 levels in the game, 64 att points, 64 skills derived from leveling. I'm no mathematician but it appears to me that the level, and the total reward does not appear to be the same. I made no mention of skill points intentionally, but I did say, if they wished to reward players per level with something they could make 100 attribute points with the same weight at the present 64.

barney2525 wrote: »

And as for just arbitrarily doubling levels... a free 10 million XP (if they flat based every level after 50 to 200,000 xp) per character ... I'm guessing you probably have more than one character that would automatically pop into the 100 range. And again, what happens with those skill points? There are 13 skill points every 10 levels. Do they just add 65 skill points to those new level 100 characters?

Everyone gets a free pony, no idea what you're on about. Are we doing the whole, inventing my position again then screeching about it thing again?

First, and foremost, If you can't have a discussion without throwing around insults, just say so.

Second, referring to the First bold section. You said leveling from 50 to 100 "should not take much longer" than leveling to 50. I disagreed. I said leveling to from 50 to 100 Would take much longer than leveling from 1 to 50. And that is all there is to it. I don't see your claim that I changed what you said.

Third- My numbers are actually based on the max XP stabilizing at 200,000 per level. Level 50 to level 100 would require 10 million additional XP, on top of the 2.8 million required for level 1 - 50. This is the basis for the position that it will take much longer to reach level 100.

Fourth- Referring to the Second bold section. Now you are adding in options that were not included in the original text. And it's all based simply on your own personal opinion. You say " but it appears to me that the level, and the total reward does not appear to be the same". Why do you think the total reward does not appear the same?

If the concept is "cram 100 levels into what used to be 50 levels" it doesn't change anything. Especially when you say you are going to adjust the 100 attributes to have the same effectiveness as the present 64. All you are doing at that point is flooding the characters with 36 extra skill points.

With no more CPs and therefore no more development, characters Stop at level 100 - which you have readjusted the XP to be able to reach in 2.8 million. Current level 50. So it would be the same if under the current system, characters went up to 50 and there was no more development. Period. Your are not more effective with 100 attributes than you are now because you stated "but I did say, if they wished to reward players per level with something they could make 100 attribute points with the same weight at the present 64".

So all this is to be able to get to level 100 in a day (for a hardcore leveler) and get 36 extra skill points while removing CPs altogether

IMHO - Still think it's a bad idea

Banana

Id like an increase

Thorvik_Tyrson

richo262 wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

I'd be happy for them to remove 160 CP points. In fact, it might even be required in order to remove the CP system if that is their intention.

Items are Level 50, CP 160. If they were to double the level to 100, and remove CP they would be able to successfully depeg items from the CP system.

It should have no consequence on a fully leveled character with CP160 gear, and no actual consequence (other than a bit of confusion) on a sub 50 character.

How it works is, everyones base level doubles, as does their item level. Level 30? You are now level 60. Level 50? Now level 100.

160 CP points could be deducted from every bodies account at that point. MAX CP is now 650.

Going forward, characters have to level to 100 rather than 50. It would take a bit longer to level alts. They could even have 100 attribute points (same output as what 64 presently gives).

For CP to be removed cleanly, CP needs to be depegged from items without significant consequence to players.

It would also make the 10 tiers of mats relevant again. Although I think they should be trimmed to 5 tiers in 20 level increments rather than 10 in 10 level. Eg. Iron 1-20, Steel 21-40, Orc 41-60, Dwarf 61-80, Ebony 81-100, scrap the rest.

---

As people lose CP but gain base level they may not feel robbed and be fine with it. However, if ZOS wanted to ease the subtraction of 160 points, they could roll some perks together, ie Mooncalf / Arcanist benefit are put under one perk. Full stam builds won't benefit greatly, nor will mag builds benefit. Hybrid builds will get a little bump though. Light / Med / Heavy can be rolled into one too, as people cant wear 5 piece of each type at any given time .

---

End result. CP cap lowered, Items depegged from CP, CP system shrunk down a bit. Progression of players has not been attacked or robbed in any significant way. The game is now ready for a controlled demolition and replacement of the CP system.

Congratulations.

You just skrugeed every new player and drove them away from the game.

"Here ya go" "All you gotta do is reach level 100 - That's One Hundred - and then you can start gaining champion points.

I really do like the way you glossed over the "It would take a BIT longer to level Alts". Yeah, like MONTHS and YEARS to do one, since every level is going to require more XP than the previous one. And exactly Where is all this XP coming from? IMHO it would be extremely difficult to reach 100 levels doing Every quest in Every region in the game.

ESO would definitely NOT be a game played by the Casual player anymore.

I think there is a circular file where we can place this plan.

I like the way you just invented my position on the fly.

Leveling to 50 doesn't take long. I said, leveling to 100 shouldn't take much longer.

You could either invent nonsense like you did, or;

You could take it as, when I said 'leveling to 100 shouldn't take much longer', what I actually mean is, 'leveling to 100 shouldn't take much longer'. Duh.

This could mean, the XP required between levels is shorter? Or you could interpret it in a manner that seems to have grossly upset you.

If getting to level 50 takes a relatively dedicated, but casual player 1 week, I have no objection to it being 1-2 weeks to get to 100.

Edit: I think you'll find by extending base levels, that gives many that want vet levels back a bit of something to chew on, whilst keeping an account wide CP level system. No way how you look at this situation, ZOS has made it clear they are re-evaluating CP. This could mean they give it a paint job, this could mean they remove it, overhaul it, replace it with something entirely new. ZOS needs to do something about the items in the game if they plan on removing it given items are bound to CP.

As a new player to ESO, I can tell you that it takes much longer than a week to make level 50 if you have a job and have to work. Even with the Anniversary buff, ESO+, and wearing Training Gear, It took me over a month doing Daily Delves, and as many World bosses as I could get groups for each night. I was averaging 3 class levels per night with an average game play time of 4 hours during the week. More on the weekend. (Note: one level was around 3 world boss quest turn in's)