Hate for PvP

Mago · May 2019

DurzoBlint13 wrote: »

Ildun wrote: »

For me, It's not about PVP gameplay or PVP player, but the fact that PVE players who don't want to join battle at all are forced to go to PVP zone.

what exactly are you "forced" to go into PvP for? Im not being a smart ass, I am honestly asking.

To get the 100k from the daily and get the shards because you will need them on your main

Runkorko · May 2019

Mago wrote: »

I hate pvp but I do the daily to get the 100k exp.
Forcing players into pvp is not the way in my opinion.

Do 3 extra dailies instead of pvp and you good :P

MrBrownstone · May 2019

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

I mean, hey, you want PvE players to stop hating PvP and do IC?

Tell your PvP buddies to stop camping the quest zones.

I did the questline alone and just got killed once because I came across a group of good players. I never got ambushed in a quest zone. You're just making things up.

Ildun · May 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

Ildun wrote: »

The_Lex wrote: »

I hear what you're saying, but no, not really. Surprise attack =\= ganking

A surprise attack on an undergeared, unaware PvE player is not ganking.

Yeah, I heard it is call as griefing. They do not do it for any benefit, but just to irritate or ruin other player's gaming experience.

Huh?

Everyone in Cyrodiil willingly queued up for a PVP zone where enemy players are a valid target for AP and quests like "Kill Enemy Players."

Killing and getting killed by other players is pretty much the whole point of the PVP gaming experience.

If that's "irritating", well...

Maybe try actually preparing for entering a PVP zone next time, and accepting that as an enemy player, you are in fact a valid target?

DurzoBlint13 wrote: »

Ildun wrote: »

For me, It's not about PVP gameplay or PVP player, but the fact that PVE players who don't want to join battle at all are forced to go to PVP zone.

what exactly are you "forced" to go into PvP for? Im not being a smart ass, I am honestly asking.

Some of us are not willingly come here, we come here just to do story quest, skyshards, lorebooks, dolmen, delves and fishing. Those are not PVP contents, we do not need to kill other player, we earn little to none AP by doing those, but the dev put them in PVP zone and we are suppose to risk ourselves to do those contents? PVP players having their fun and earn their reward, but we should bear the unpleasant feeling to get what we want?

PvP players have their battlezone, while most of them fight hard as attacker or defender, or even gank opponent in between, some left the battle, go somewhere in nowhere to pick easy target. Does that contribute anything? Or it just for their own amusement?

Kikke · May 2019

Okey... So wierd... Most PvErs I know go into cyro with 8-10 chars for 50 transmute crystals montly. They all have Alliance rank on 10. And most have spammed BGs for styles.

BUT, I heard constant whining and complaining from PvP players complaining that they have too do PvE for gear so they can PvP. This is what I read.

And here is one thing I know as well. You guys hate us entering cyro with divine gear just as much as we hate you entering dungeons in impen gear. No wait.. thats right. You guys only play for yourself. So someone else using divine in cyro is only a good thing for you as it's a fast and easy kill. Meanwhile you entering dungeons with impen gear and 15k DPS and waste the time off 3 other players... Not fine.

MakeMeUhSamich · May 2019

Death to insta-gib 1 shots in PvE and/or trying BG or PvP and instantly getting rooted/stunned/poisoned/nuked is simply not fun for most (?) players. Unfortunately, that’s usually the first impression of harder content/PvP.

VaranisArano · May 2019

Ildun wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Ildun wrote: »

The_Lex wrote: »

I hear what you're saying, but no, not really. Surprise attack =\= ganking

A surprise attack on an undergeared, unaware PvE player is not ganking.

Yeah, I heard it is call as griefing. They do not do it for any benefit, but just to irritate or ruin other player's gaming experience.

Huh?

Everyone in Cyrodiil willingly queued up for a PVP zone where enemy players are a valid target for AP and quests like "Kill Enemy Players."

Killing and getting killed by other players is pretty much the whole point of the PVP gaming experience.

If that's "irritating", well...

Maybe try actually preparing for entering a PVP zone next time, and accepting that as an enemy player, you are in fact a valid target?

DurzoBlint13 wrote: »

Ildun wrote: »

For me, It's not about PVP gameplay or PVP player, but the fact that PVE players who don't want to join battle at all are forced to go to PVP zone.

what exactly are you "forced" to go into PvP for? Im not being a smart ass, I am honestly asking.

Some of us are not willingly come here, we come here just to do story quest, skyshards, lorebooks, dolmen, delves and fishing. Those are not PVP contents, we do not need to kill other player, we earn little to none AP by doing those, but the dev put them in PVP zone and we are suppose to risk ourselves to do those contents? PVP players having their fun and earn their reward, but we should bear the unpleasant feeling to get what we want?

PvP players have their battlezone, while most of them fight hard as attacker or defender, or even gank opponent in between, some left the battle, go somewhere in nowhere to pick easy target. Does that contribute anything? Or it just for their own amusement?

I'm going to object to your description of those things as "not PVP content". That's just not true. Most of your examples are tied into PVP in ways that may not seem obvious at first.

For one, all of Cyrodiil is a PVP zone, and all enemy players are valid targets worth AP.

But more to the point...
3 of the towns are PVP objectives for respawn, transit, and AP and the other two are near keeps and right aong the route for scroll runs.
Delves grant an AP buff for killing the boss, which is quite important for players running for emperor.
Skyshards are scattered throught Cyrodiil - some near keeps and towns, some in delves with the AP buff, some way deep in enemy territory, and 4 of them behind enemy gates that require your faction to capture two keeps at minimum.
Even fishing isn't 100% innocent - the ocean holes are a stone's throw away from AD's home gate, and other fiahing holes require going deep into AD or EP territory, or hanging out around the contested Amp ring. (I was greatly annoyed by AD's control of fishing holes as an EP player.)

And the recent addition of collapsible bridges and milgates actually makes all of those above more dependent on PVP. If you want access to other alliance areas, you are dependent on your alliance to fight for those spots...or else risk the goat paths, which ZOS also designed for players to fight over.

But mostly, by queueing up for Cyrodiil and leavung the safety of your gates, YOU are a PVP objective. So am I. That's how PVP works. My death fills a spot on someone's "Kill 20 Players" or "Kill 20 DKs" quest, or gives them AP.

Its almost like ZOS designed the objectives of their PVP zone to give reasons for players to go there and fight. You don't have to fight, if course, but its designed to generate conflict, for reasons I hope are obvious in a PVP zone.

MrBrownstone · May 2019

You are not forced to anything. You have to accept the fact that the developers didn't plan this game with separating PvE and PvP in mind. Just because someone can't kill you in a PvE zone doesn't mean PvE and PvP are separate things, they're both part of the game. I'm sure this has been told hundreds of times but I guess I need to repeat it. PvP players have to do much more PvE content compared to the amount of PvP content PvE players need to do. Yes, PvP players are actually the forced ones. You don't have to PvP to get better in PvE but you have to do PvE to get better in PvP. Monster Sets or Arena Weapons alone are a huge reason.

Your "PvE content in PvP" mindset is completely flawed. PvP doesn't mean just people killing each other. Cyrodiil is a zone where you can do most of the things like collecting Skyshards or go fishing, only with PvP enabled. Because it's still an in game zone. Just because PvP is enabled there it doesn't mean they shouldn't include them.

What makes skyshards and fishing "PvE content" anyway? They're ESO CONTENT. PvE means fighting ai and PvP means fighting players. There is no "versus" aspect included in those activities. They belong in every zone. Your arguments are unbelievable.

As a both PvE and PvP player who enjoys this game to it's full, I find these mindsets ridiculous.

BomblePants · May 2019

At the bare bones it’s fear of failure and not being good enough... but it’s just all covered up with the type of chat ArchMikem has described above.....

Moonsorrow · May 2019

Hate is such a strong word.. and when it is the real feeling, it usually comes from past experiences on some other game or trying it out here not prepared for it and meeting all the wrong people in first experiences that then stay in ones head as "hate".

Truth be told, there is not even that much toxic people here (ESO pvp community) on pvp, of course some, but from those for most its just humor, so then there are left the handful of actually raging/toxic people who just act like that because well, human ego. Its like any school, work place or anything, most people are cool, fun & reasonable people, but since there are hundreds, thousands.. of course a few in the mix with mental health and/or anger management issues. And those can always just put on Ignore list instantly and enjoy the chat and pvp without them.

Seriously, years of ESO pvp and i`ve put 4 (FOUR) people on ignore.

There really is not much gankers also, yeah if at primetime Vivec you travel between certain keeps/outposts on the dangerous paths there might be some lurking, but not that many. And after some time knowing the places and routes, can with like extra 10 seconds go pass all of them, since they are 99% on same locations where people move in like railroad tracks.

People that i personally know who never even wanted to try PVP and then came there with me & other relaxed people actually like 99% had fun from the start, some said they were so nervous that sweating irl, but after some time, had to admit having fun and been coming back for more.

I think what first makes it hard for some is the emotional aspect of it, getting killed and killing others.. i know people who actually feel bad & guilty after they killed someone for the first time, they said things like "awww now they have to ride a long ride.. i hope they are not sad because of me .( " type of things, hoping they do not get into any confrontation because of it. In those emotions also are the good side, at its best one can get a real rush of feelings from pvp, and most people have good sportsmanship. The few toxic people in old pvp veterans stories are often the same people, that are living memes and not to be taken seriously.

Pvp culture and the reputation has is because of certain players streamers long ago (in other games) started the toxic chat & behaviour because streams need to be "entertaining" and they need some ego boost. Then some imitate that behaviour and here were are, people talking to themselves, sounding like drunken pirates, pressing crouching button on their arch nemesis.. childish, but can be entertaining when you know most do it because it has become a meme and is anymore just humor.

When not take things, deaths, kills, zergs, even some messages too seriously.. pvp can fun for anyone willing to try. Good company helps with that so not get the bad first experiences and the "hate" feeling because of that.

Good thing about this game is that it has both pvp and pve, can do both in the right mix for each. Not saying all should force themselves to pvp even if they strongly identify themselves as "pve only" type of player, just that if their "hate" for pvp comes from the past experiences or from the (toxic) reputation, try it out.. it might not be all that bad in reality. Atleast not here.

DovahkiinHeart · May 2019

I don't know whatchu mean. ._. After doing pve for a while, its a nice change of pace for me to do BGs. I don't care much for Cyro though. Deathmatch never appeals to me as much as land grab or flag games, since it's... too simple and doesn't really require the kind of collaboration I enjoy in dungeons. On my healer, I find that with a group that knows what they're doing, we win more often than not.

I suspect most of the ill feelings stem from not pvp itself, but from some of the toxic attitudes that tend to rear its head in competitive environments. That can be said for pve too.

Blinkin8r · May 2019

MrBumblefoot wrote: »

I don't understand the PvE players' hate for PvP. I don't see any PvP players hating PvE much but everytime I visit the forums and read some discussions, I always see PvE players spitting hate for PvP. I don't really understand the reason, as a both PvE and PvP player. I get it, some people might not like PvE or PvP but so many people hating PvP, why? Does it hurt more if you get killed by a player instead of a boss? It doesn't even degrade armor... I don't understand why some people are so afraid of the concept of getting killed by another player.

In my opinion, getting killed by predictable AI is more insulting than getting killed by an actual human. Those PvE players are fine with wiping over and over again by a dungeon/trial boss but they lose their minds when it comes to getting killed by another player. Hello, they're the same thing! You just respawn and try again... I just came here because I've seen some people not doing the amazing Imperial City questline just because of the risk of getting killed by enemy players. I just can't get my head around it, getting killed by a player is no different than getting killed by AI (actually it's less punishing) and also (this part is solely my opinion) I think PvP is more fun because fighting against enemies that actually fight back is more fun. I love both PvE and PvP but I think PvP is more fun, actually the only PvE content that can compete with PvP is the Maelstrom Arena. However I'm not telling anyone that they should start doing PvP. I just explained why I love it and I want to know why some hate it. Hating it with a passion is just not understandable for me.

I was catching up on the comments on that thread. Really blows my mind. Everyone still seems to think the Imperial City is packed with gankers. It's never been emptier. I'll go down there and solo bosses in Vivec and never see a single person. But hey, they're the ones missing out.

Nightowl_74 · May 2019

I've learned to never say never but I probably won't do that questline. No one will hear me complain about it, I don't hate the fact that there are things I'm not going to do or see in the game but PVP doesn't suit my personality. I'm the sort of person who will apologize for winning a game. I simply didn't inherit or develop whatever it is that makes people competitive so to me it's unappealing.

FluffyKitten · May 2019

I've been competing in FPS games since the mid 90s, ESO is my stress release, haven't touched pvp here and never will.

mayasunrising · May 2019

I don't understand the PvE players' hate for PvP. I don't see any PvP players hating PvE much but everytime I visit the forums and read some discussions, I always see PvE players spitting hate for PvP.

I play PVE and PVP pretty evenly and tbh I see the same ire thrown around on both sides. I think there are just some people that are hatey. lol Conversel, I think there are awesome players on both sides as well.

For me, I can get slaughtered over and over again in PVE and brush it off. It's knowing there's a human behind the kill that gets to me. Because, as someone above said, the human condition.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · May 2019

Nightowl_74 wrote: »

I've learned to never say never but I probably won't do that questline. No one will hear me complain about it, I don't hate the fact that there are things I'm not going to do or see in the game but PVP doesn't suit my personality. I'm the sort of person who will apologize for winning a game. I simply didn't inherit or develop whatever it is that makes people competitive so to me it's unappealing.

It’s funny you say that. In the absence of competition I get ridiculously bored. I kind of need it to thrive in ESO and really life in general. I’m not really a trash talker though so winning or losing I generally just tip my cap and try to learn from it.

Different strokes for different folks and whatnot.

DurzoBlint13 · May 2019

[/quote]

To get the 100k from the daily and get the shards because you will need them on your main
[/quote]

Is the 100K AP is pretty quick and easy to do simply by fixing walls.

Not sure I agree with the shards though. I haven't bothered hunting for any Skyshards from any DLCs past Orsinium for my main and I still have a bunch of unused skill points, even after all crafting, class and relevant weapon skill lines filled out. But to each his own.

Barbaran · May 2019

PvE are used to standing and casting a rotation over and over.
In PvP you have to "freestyle" fight alot, you can't just rely on knowing a players mechanic, you have to be prepared to change your rotation in a split second.
It's a large learning curve, and if you are just deciding recently to try and play PvP and you run across a seasoned player or 1vX type player, you are going to be discouraged that your liquid lightning and wall of elements with a heavy lightning attack did nothing

Kalgert · May 2019

MrBumblefoot wrote: »

I don't see any PvP players hating PvE much

Whenever I read a comment from a PvPer, it often comes off as sincere and utter hatred towards PvE.

"ffs I hate having to go to dungeons to get monster sets" is usually a type of comment they'd spit out.

Jamdarius · May 2019

MrBumblefoot wrote: »

I don't understand the PvE players' hate for PvP. I don't see any PvP players hating PvE much but everytime I visit the forums and read some discussions, I always see PvE players spitting hate for PvP. I don't really understand the reason, as a both PvE and PvP player. I get it, some people might not like PvE or PvP but so many people hating PvP, why? Does it hurt more if you get killed by a player instead of a boss? It doesn't even degrade armor... I don't understand why some people are so afraid of the concept of getting killed by another player.

In my opinion, getting killed by predictable AI is more insulting than getting killed by an actual human. Those PvE players are fine with wiping over and over again by a dungeon/trial boss but they lose their minds when it comes to getting killed by another player. Hello, they're the same thing! You just respawn and try again... I just came here because I've seen some people not doing the amazing Imperial City questline just because of the risk of getting killed by enemy players. I just can't get my head around it, getting killed by a player is no different than getting killed by AI (actually it's less punishing) and also (this part is solely my opinion) I think PvP is more fun because fighting against enemies that actually fight back is more fun. I love both PvE and PvP but I think PvP is more fun, actually the only PvE content that can compete with PvP is the Maelstrom Arena. However I'm not telling anyone that they should start doing PvP. I just explained why I love it and I want to know why some hate it. Hating it with a passion is just not understandable for me.

You see because ZOS in their might wisdom decided to not separate PvP and PvE well enough and so PvE players are often getting nerfs for skills they use in PvE simply because of PvP players whining skill XYZ is too powerful.

Or at the very least that is the reason for me to not like PvP too much.
We should just be able to have PvP and PvE loadouts for this game considering some morphs are useful only in PvP some in PvE, not to mention the tragic way of using the Champion Points feature and having to change it each time you go into PvP CP campaign...

TequilaFire · May 2019

You all give too much power to t-bags, just revive faster and ignore it.

Jaraal · May 2019

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

Thing is: Alot of stuff thats really cool in PvE gets nerfed because of PvP Balance.

I recently learned that a main reason why my beloved Werewolf Ultimate has such a short time limit if for PvP balancing. Without that, we could have way more nice things in PvE.

That doesnt mean I hate PvP players, or even PvP. I just want you to understand that you people have way more influence on our game experience than you might realise.

Exactly.

PvP in and if itself is fine, it's just that developers tune for it with no regard for carry over effects in PvE.

I always wore Dreugh King on my PvE werewolf for the 20 second speed boost after a kill, since the werewolf bar doesn't allow you access to your Rapid Maneuvers skill. But when they gutted speed in general because PvP players with low end systems, bad connections, or just poor skill complained about being unable to target in laggy Cyrodiil, they chopped the Major Expedition sets like Dreugh King down to 8 seconds. Well, it takes a werewolf 8 seconds to devour a couple of corpses to maintain form, before he dashes off to the next kill. So the speed buff is gone, and the armor set now worthless to us.

Also, nerfing Swift and Major Expedition for PvP hurts PvEers gathering materials, trying to get between quest points, or trying to slog through a dungeon. And don't even get me started on them gutting the Bosmer passive that helped them be traditionally better thieves or able to sneak past aggressive monsters. They replaced it with a PvP only passive that has absolutely no use in PvE.

So yeah, some of us are salty at PvP, but not because of you guys, but because the devs couldn't care less how their PvP nerfs affect the majority of players who never PvP.

Reistr_the_Unbroken · May 2019

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

What disappoints me the most though, with the ESO anti-PvP crowd. Is the fact that the vocally fearful here cost us the second part of the justice system. Bounty hunter and rogue justice gameplay systems could have been great. But the “I don’t want PvP in my PvE”, and *** what you want crowd. Were again vehement in their displeasure.

It’s not even that- it’s the fact that it can easily be exploited by the lowest scum and most really don’t an open world PvP zone, plain and simple

Lylith · May 2019

let's not forget some of the features of pvp.

you're about to engage a group of players, you buff up, start your attack routine and suddenly...

you're

running at

one

frame

per

second

until

you

die

what could be better?

xxthir13enxx · May 2019

TequilaFire wrote: »

You all give too much power to t-bags, just revive faster and ignore it.

^This.....If y’all were looking at your map for your Res location you wouldn’t even know you were being bag’d....

david_m_18b16_ESO · May 2019

MrBumblefoot wrote: »

I don't understand the PvE players' hate for PvP. I don't see any PvP players hating PvE

Two reasons

1) A lot of change that impact PvE are made in roder to balance PvP. The reverse happens too but it seems less frequent. Wings and shield change comes to mind.

2) A lot of PvE stuff is locked behind PvP requirement. Its true that even if you want to be a 100% PvP player you still have to beat a lot of PvE content but thats how every MMO works so PvP players are used to this formula. But PvE players are very rarely forced to do PvP to get anything PvE related in any MMO beside ESO.

r34lian · May 2019

The only reason I hate pvp is
Outside cyrodil 90+ fps with 350 ping
Inside cyrodil 15 fps with 600 ping

Sevn · May 2019

I enjoy both. With that out of the way I'm curious about all this pver's are afraid of dying? Is this you guys ego talking? They die all the time to bosses I'd wager.

The difference between the two, imho, is that when dying to an npc you can learn from it, correct your mistakes and change tactics if necessary. When dying to some random player in less than 10 seconds you learn nothing.

You don't know if you lost due to them having better gear, better rotation, or just simply better skills. On top of that, it's not like you can go seek out that one individual to try again without encountering another player who does the same to you. Rinse repeat.

That can be extremely frustrating to players who would at least like to see what attacks they are being hit with instead of reading about them upon their death screen. Npc's don't AC. If I had to put money on it, I'd say most ESO pver's play to relax and destress. Pvp is the exact opposite of that.

Constantly having to have your head on a swivel is exhausting for some and what is your reward for winning against another random human opponent? Bragging rights? Pvp is about competing. Lots of folks have zero desire to best another human. For what? I'm better at clicking buttons or vice versa?

Let's look at this last pvp event. Folks were drooling at the chance to slaughter noobs and laughing at the anguish it causes, and you are seriously asking why most hate it? And no, I'm not giving pver's a pass for getting upset at being killed in a pvp zone, but it's disingenuous to act like that type of an attitude doesn't play a role in the hate pvp gets.

I always thought pvp was about competition, not easy kills.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2019

I dont understand why we as a species are so compelled to divide ourselves into 2 groups. Ever occur to anyone in this debate that a lot of people play both PVP and PVE? In fact, if you dont, I would be willing to bet that there are some serious holes in your game.

Lumenn · May 2019

Honestly I was turned off of PvP due to the last mmo I played(EQ from launch +10 years or so) corpse runs plus corpse camping and too many griefers on the PvP side. Eso was the next mmo I played and wasn't interested, especially after they dropped the sub. I play both now(and enjoy both) but it's bgs only. I go in when I want to PvP, and if I'm questing I don't have to deal with griefers camping quest checkpoints.