@Marshall1289 since this is a little OT

how about nerf nb

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

@Marshall1289 since this is a little OT

In my first test I didn't test each morph individually because I haven't had much time and I believe (probably shouldn't do that in this game) that Twin Slashes works just like Rending Slashes and Blood Craze on a game mechanics.

I just redid the DW test with each morph and here we go.

What procs Ravager on PTS:

• Whirwind, Whirling Blades, Steel Tornado
• Twin Slashes, Rending Slashes, Blood Craze - initial hit

No Ravager procs from:

1. Twin Slashes, Rending Slashes, Blood Craze - DoT
2. Flurry, Rapid Strikes, Bloodthirst
3. Blade Cloak, Quick Cloak, Deadly Cloak
4. Hidden Blade, Shrouded Daggers, Flying Blade

Which is inconsistent. Ravager's tooltip only demands "melee damage". Hidden Blade is ranged, so fine.
DoTs are seemingly out of the picture to Twin Slashes Bleed generates no proc.
Flurry only works with Thaumaturge CP, not with Master at Arms. Which is strange because Jabs also works with the same CPs only (and even procs without Burning Light passive).
Next inconsistence is Whirlwind and Blade Cloak. Both melee AoEs (5m and 9m), both work with M-a-A but not Thaumaturge.

So in conclusion: Ravager is still not viable on DW stamsorcs.

But since Carve get's buffed it's probably nice know that it can proc Ravager and also does more dmg than Dizzy if you've got at least 1 additional opponent in the cone with Master 2H. Great work ZOS. [E: to clarify master weapons]

Thanks for all the testing. The most confusing part is they updated Advancing Yokeda to proc from flurry with the reasoning that it was a bug and it should of always counted as melee damage, thus the CD was added. They then continue to say Deadly Cloak and morphs now scale properly only with Thaumaturge like a dot and no longer proc "melee damage" conditions because it's considered a dot.

So ZOS considers melee ranged channels as an exception to their own rule even though they scale with Thaum as a dot, they proc "melee damage" conditions.

In conclusion: Ravager must be bugged based on their own logic. Disappointing, huge oversight if they went to the effort of updating Advancing Yokeda.

Edit: To your point about Blade Cloak vs Whirlwind. This quote is from pts patch 5.0.0.

"Blade Cloak and Morphs

• Fixed an issue where these abilities were being treated as both a DoT and as Direct Damage. They will now properly be treated as Damage over Time, and scale with Thaumaturge, rather than Master at Arms. This means it will also no longer proc things that state "When dealing Melee damage"

Murador178 wrote: »

Thraben wrote: »

evoniee wrote: »

how about nerf nb

Nerfing things is no replacement for interesting combat mechanics.

Even if there is not much love between dedicated StamSorcs and dedicated little cowards Stamblades - No one should be treated by the Devs as they have been treating us during the last 8 months.

As a Nb main - that plays most classes I think they are going the complete wrong way. Stam sorc needs a stam spammable(sword and board builds are getting boring - even so stamblade prob will be played like that aswell...), a unigue stam ult, some abilities synergizing, or a combo like cloak suprise attack. Same thing for stamplar another class that needs alot of changes.... But instead they nerf nightblade to be less unigue instead of making every class more interesting.

No offense, but I'm always scipticle of anyone who says "I'm NB main" or "I'm templar main" and so on...it's out of context, we don't need to know what main class you play, just give a good reasoning.

I can always go to templar thread and say "I'm warden main but templar is weak and need buffs" or "I main sorc but Dk is very weak" or even "i'm nb and nightblade is overperforming, it should be nerfed." ...etc

Point is that everyone can you this to take down or make a thread looks good even though it's not.

universal_wrath wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

Thraben wrote: »

evoniee wrote: »

how about nerf nb

Nerfing things is no replacement for interesting combat mechanics.

Even if there is not much love between dedicated StamSorcs and dedicated little cowards Stamblades - No one should be treated by the Devs as they have been treating us during the last 8 months.

As a Nb main - that plays most classes I think they are going the complete wrong way. Stam sorc needs a stam spammable(sword and board builds are getting boring - even so stamblade prob will be played like that aswell...), a unigue stam ult, some abilities synergizing, or a combo like cloak suprise attack. Same thing for stamplar another class that needs alot of changes.... But instead they nerf nightblade to be less unigue instead of making every class more interesting.

No offense, but I'm always scipticle of anyone who says "I'm NB main" or "I'm templar main" and so on...it's out of context, we don't need to know what main class you play, just give a good reasoning.

I can always go to templar thread and say "I'm warden main but templar is weak and need buffs" or "I main sorc but Dk is very weak" or even "i'm nb and nightblade is overperforming, it should be nerfed." ...etc

Point is that everyone can you this to take down or make a thread looks good even though it's not.

He gave great reasoning, stam blade is arguably the most well designed stam class in the game and he mains the class clearly showing where his bias lies, yet he would like stam sorc to have the same flexibility and identity he feels he gets when playing as a stam nb. No nerfs or buffs talked about, just a more well designed class.

I actually don't understand why your comment is relevant.

ilcavallo wrote: »

Well, that settles it. We'll definitely be getting stampets at some point in the near future

I'd accept stam pets if the class line and its passives were adjusted to provide more benefit to stam. Its not like you have to use the actual pets.

Marshall1289 wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

Thraben wrote: »

evoniee wrote: »

how about nerf nb

Nerfing things is no replacement for interesting combat mechanics.

Even if there is not much love between dedicated StamSorcs and dedicated little cowards Stamblades - No one should be treated by the Devs as they have been treating us during the last 8 months.

As a Nb main - that plays most classes I think they are going the complete wrong way. Stam sorc needs a stam spammable(sword and board builds are getting boring - even so stamblade prob will be played like that aswell...), a unigue stam ult, some abilities synergizing, or a combo like cloak suprise attack. Same thing for stamplar another class that needs alot of changes.... But instead they nerf nightblade to be less unigue instead of making every class more interesting.

No offense, but I'm always scipticle of anyone who says "I'm NB main" or "I'm templar main" and so on...it's out of context, we don't need to know what main class you play, just give a good reasoning.

I can always go to templar thread and say "I'm warden main but templar is weak and need buffs" or "I main sorc but Dk is very weak" or even "i'm nb and nightblade is overperforming, it should be nerfed." ...etc

Point is that everyone can you this to take down or make a thread looks good even though it's not.

He gave great reasoning, stam blade is arguably the most well designed stam class in the game and he mains the class clearly showing where his bias lies, yet he would like stam sorc to have the same flexibility and identity he feels he gets when playing as a stam nb. No nerfs or buffs talked about, just a more well designed class.

I actually don't understand why your comment is relevant.

He is right NB was the only really "complete" and well designed stamina implementation. The only stamina class you could theoretically play with zero weapon skills. It was self contained and had a full complement of stam morphs: spammable, execute, aoe, CC, sustain and ult and multiple useful magicka dumps. Even when they specifically tried to design warden with stam in mind, it was not as good.

Stam sorc was always a thing because of the sheer brazenness of making it work.

I'd like to ask something of this stamSorc grouping. One of the biggest PvE pain points is sustain. Dark deal was given a weird buff to help with that, but is just a PvP Nerf and useless in PvE.

Now my proposal that would make it good for PvE and still strong and unique for PvP would be as follows also keep the skill spell symmetry in mind please.

Ok so it gives the full Stam/mag and the full heal over 3-6 seconds, but is instant cast. It cannot be spammed in PvP. Giving a nice HOT as well and the stamina back over time but a shorter time. If 6 seconds increase the heal to 12-15kish that's 2-2.5k a second. Helps take mag sorc reliance off pets and opens up some healing for stamSorc.
Gives them a great sustain tool for pve as well now.

The Stam/mag return would have to be balanced as well. Balanced around Equilibrium which returns 3k and rune focus on Templar which returns 4080 but costs 1080 so also 3k. Further since there is a heal attached I'd say 3k would be the sweet spot now equilibrium does have bonuses attached as well such as a strong sustain tool in spell sym making next cost free or major armors, rune focus gives major armors and minor mending from passive.

A big problem with this however would be infinite block tank as you could just spam and hold block. Which is why making it over 6 seconds would be best. As that's 500 a second still ALOT for just blocking. If rather it be over 3 seconds of course for a solid 1k but the blocking would be and is an issue.

I understand that this would fundamentally change the game play of dark deal. Just an idea that would help PvE and still be strong amd functional in PvP. Please disect and discuss this!

universal_wrath wrote: »

Remmember when hurricaine was doing 250%? Remmember when implusion still exist? Remmember when 1 streak could get you out of snipe range?
Remmember when orc had health recovery?
Remmember when stam was a strongest dps in the game?
Feel old yet?

Remember when stamsorc could be fast ? Remember when dark deal was really good ? Remember when we had a third bar ?

It's a pretty big list of nerfs we have had, both direct and indirect and the only buff was a hurricane cost reduction and it didn't even slightly make up for the dd nerf.

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

There are plenty of unused sorc skills which could be turned into some nice stamina
- Damn, even bound armaments need to be reworked. Don't get me wrong, they are good, but they don't add anything to help keep class identity. It's just a passive bonus with no active component (like really, is anyone using the active component of BA?)

The active ability is very useful in PvE. You can take a hit from Olms jumps, Nocturnal's favour and many other heavy attacks as a DD in light/medium armor when you activate aegis before hit.

This patch is incredibly underwhelming. Been waiting for something for stam sorc for how many patches? Nope let's just nerf d swing and call it a day.

Ladislao wrote: »

GreatWhite wrote: »

Currently there are only a few skills stam sorcs have that are remotely useful:

Bound Armaments
Critical Surge
Dark Deal
Hurricane
Streak

That's it. Only one stam morph in the entire class. It's mobility is great with streak but it lacks a lot of identity that the other classes have because of the fact that there are so few options with regards as to what skills you are have available to use, and the entire class crutches heavily on the weapon skills. It doesn't have a skill that blows up after a few seconds or an execute, just a little DoT that is mostly used as an armour buff. Stam sorcs needing some TLC is especially noticeable now that implosion has been removed from the game, and it's a little disappointing that the class has basically received no love in the 5.0 PTS.

You forgot about Negate Magic, Encase, Greater Storm Atronach and Daedric Prey. So there are at least nine abilities that end-game stamsorcs actively use, depends on content. Do you still think they lack identity? Or do you think that identity lies solely in the presence of execute, spammable and ability with delayed damage?

Speaking about Implosion, instead of random execute with a low threshold, I received an approximately similar in power passive with constant effect. This is almost permanent Minor Berserk buff. You can argue with the fact that it was a buff, but it was definitely not a nerf.

Maybe before asking for love for the class, should you love it yourself?

Elwendryll wrote: »

Make negate and morph actually proc the Blood Magic Passive.

Negate Magic proc Blood Magic every time when the effect of silence is applied on the player enemy. Maybe a little inconsistent, but it works. There is a thread about it.

Yes they use it but guess what

It doesn't scale from stam it scales from mag

You don't have the pen
You don't have the crit
You don't have the mag
You don't have the spell power

It's not what they use but that it's not theirs, they are borrowing it

Like stamdk using standard, it doesn't scale at all because its magic

Best and most important step in Sorcerer's adjustment has to be Pets.
They are annoying,clunky and depending on patch OP or Garbage, now we know that you can make them good just by looking at Necromancer keep them with the same purpose as they are right now scamp can be summoned for few seconds to do some damage then disappear, clanfear can be the cc/utility as it's cool how it jumps on people them vanish and Matronach for heal/hots.
And change their looks they are hideous looking.