ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »Magblade is supposed to be a hybrid ranged/melee build. If you want to play a pure ranged build magsorc is probably a better option.
Yup, removed/nerfed a whole playstyle by beefing cripple.
Victor_Blade wrote: »Yup, removed/nerfed a whole playstyle by beefing cripple.
It was a great gap closer, fight opener and a good dot with stun. It wasn't overperforming in the slightest.
Let's say it won't completely destroy a playstyle. But how do you justify a normal skill getting nerfed for no reason?
This again another magic user qq’ing cry me a river I’m sure you will be asking for pet sorcs to be buff next Q-Q everyone has a right to be upset about nerfs to there class.Vercingetorix wrote: »Another nightblade qq'ing on the forums about not getting another buff to their already over-tuned class. Cry me a river. Meanwhile, the unfinished Necromancer class has barely had any focus on working on tuning its abilities and like the Warden, its magicka capabilities are sub-par at best.
Deathlord92 wrote: »This again another magic user qq’ing cry me a river I’m sure you will be asking for pet sorcs to be buff next Q-Q everyone has a right to be upset about nerfs to there class.Vercingetorix wrote: »Another nightblade qq'ing on the forums about not getting another buff to their already over-tuned class. Cry me a river. Meanwhile, the unfinished Necromancer class has barely had any focus on working on tuning its abilities and like the Warden, its magicka capabilities are sub-par at best.
Vercingetorix wrote: »Deathlord92 wrote: »This again another magic user qq’ing cry me a river I’m sure you will be asking for pet sorcs to be buff next Q-Q everyone has a right to be upset about nerfs to there class.Vercingetorix wrote: »Another nightblade qq'ing on the forums about not getting another buff to their already over-tuned class. Cry me a river. Meanwhile, the unfinished Necromancer class has barely had any focus on working on tuning its abilities and like the Warden, its magicka capabilities are sub-par at best.
I play a magicka Warden, the least loved class spec. As perhaps the leading authority on playing as the underdog in the midst of nerfs to your class, get over it. Adapt or move on.
Magblade survivability is bad? They literally have the best tools in their kit to reset any fight 1v1 or 1vX and completely avoid or evade zergs.
While that is true, the way the lack of healing plays out is that I have to, at times, cloak away for 12 seconds to pop 2 Healing Wards, before I'm back at full health (and the alternatives to Healing Ward suck even more). You can argue that rightly gives opponents time to recover, but equally it can be frustrating for both sides. If I don't stay in the fight and only gank you from time to time, that is not by choice. It's by necessity.Magblade survivability is bad? They literally have the best tools in their kit to reset any fight 1v1 or 1vX and completely avoid or evade zergs.
Please think about how many stamblades kill you vs. magblades. This thread is about magblade. You seem to have no difficulty making that distinction when it comes to Necro.Vercingetorix wrote: »Another nightblade qq'ing on the forums about not getting another buff to their already over-tuned class. Cry me a river. Meanwhile, the unfinished Necromancer class has barely had any focus on working on tuning its abilities and like the Warden, its magicka capabilities are sub-par at best.
Magblade is far weaker then mag warden and magblade deserves way more attention then mag warden to.Vercingetorix wrote: »Deathlord92 wrote: »This again another magic user qq’ing cry me a river I’m sure you will be asking for pet sorcs to be buff next Q-Q everyone has a right to be upset about nerfs to there class.Vercingetorix wrote: »Another nightblade qq'ing on the forums about not getting another buff to their already over-tuned class. Cry me a river. Meanwhile, the unfinished Necromancer class has barely had any focus on working on tuning its abilities and like the Warden, its magicka capabilities are sub-par at best.
I play a magicka Warden, the least loved class spec. As perhaps the leading authority on playing as the underdog in the midst of nerfs to your class, get over it. Adapt or move on.
It comes down to these points:Ugg, still don’t understand the complaints about the merciless mitigation. If you ever take damage in pvp, and you do, mitigation helps.
Vercingetorix wrote: »Another nightblade qq'ing on the forums about not getting another buff to their already over-tuned class. Cry me a river. Meanwhile, the unfinished Necromancer class has barely had any focus on working on tuning its abilities and like the Warden, its magicka capabilities are sub-par at best.
Magblade survivability is bad? They literally have the best tools in their kit to reset any fight 1v1 or 1vX and completely avoid or evade zergs.
Ugg, still don’t understand the complaints about the merciless mitigation. If you ever take damage in pvp, and you do, mitigation helps.
There is a possible silver lining. When t3hasiangod tested the mitigation, apparently it was additive. That makes a huge difference to the math and the resistance buff might feel really strong. However it stands to reason it's a bug and will be fixed in a future patch, as all other mitigation buffs are multiplicative.Victor_Blade wrote: »Ugg, still don’t understand the complaints about the merciless mitigation. If you ever take damage in pvp, and you do, mitigation helps.
Without effective healing how? You have like a percentage less damage which isn't much. And it's not even the full 15% migitation cos of cp and stuff. Getting 200 damage off of a hit won't save you or help you survive.
It comes down to these points:Ugg, still don’t understand the complaints about the merciless mitigation. If you ever take damage in pvp, and you do, mitigation helps.
(1) If I take too much damage I shade or cloak. At that point I am mitigating all damage, resistances don't help me one bit, but I need some healing.
(2) Magblade healing has gotten so bad that it's, frankly, a priority. All the resistances in the world won't help you, when you don't heal well.
This is totally different from magden, by the way, who has reliable non-damage-related healing from every animal attack and, most of all, from that fantastic ability: Living Trellis. Would I swap cloak for that? No. Am I wrong to ask for something that synergises better with magblade playstyles, though?
Anyone who says that magden got nerfed and is a weak underdog class frankly hasn't got a clue. They have, most likely, not played all classes themselves and are only going by reputations. I play magden too. Magden has a bad reputation, because people couldn't figure out how to play it at first. In my experience the class works very well as a straight up magicka-stacking damage dealer, but probably even better as a controlling ice build. The reason I don't play it much is because I find the gameplay kind of bland.
Please don't get me wrong. Cloak is awesome at enabling open-world solo play. Only Streak comes close. I wouldn't trade that for the world, however there are 3 other classes and I wouldn't put magden, or any of them, as the clear underdog magicka class in PvP. One of the reasons you still don't see that many magdens is, IMO, that the class is/was hidden behind a paywall and, perhaps, that stamden has the better reputation.
(3) Of course resistances are not nothing and every little help is welcome. However I have played with and without Minor Maim (15% mitigation) and it really doesn't make a difference to my playstyle. Let's explore why that is. I play a Zaan + Caluu ganker. My playstyle is that of a traditional stamblade, e.g. I will try and burst you from cloak. The biggest mitigation I have does not come from mitigation at all, it comes from putting people on the defensive at that moment and from their team mates not immediately realising what's going on. More upfront burst works far better than anything else on a nightblade.
The next best thing, on magblade, is IMO speed. Speed and the shade have a high synergy with cloak. I find mitigation works better on other classes, magplar for example, and when you stack enough of it. On nightblade - this comes after playing the class for a long time - it works better to be squishy, all damage, and elusive. At the very least I feel this is what makes nightblade unique. When I play the class, I want to build that way, otherwise I'd play something else.
I know what you're going to say. Poor me, I can build for all damage with no compromise. You are wrong. My friend plays sorc. He pointed out that, even while wearing Armor Master, his Force Pulse tooltip is 3K. That is an insane number I can only dream of. My Force Pulse tooltip is below 2K. For all the damage buffs NB has / had, I don't know how to get magblade to similar straight up damage. Not without compromising my Cloak sustain and speed, which are essential to my playstyle. This is perhaps why many magblades claim melee magblade is not viable and is suicide. So please be aware: Yes, Caluu + Zaan is strong open-world, but in order to make this a viable build I rely on that high Cloak sustain and speed. Inbetween the procs my damage is hugely compromised.
In my book Grim Focus is a fine skill for duelling. In open world it is a crap skill. The wind-up time is far too long. Supposing I only used the skill for the mitigation, that has the opposite of a synergy - an anti-synergy? - with Cloak. (A) because a successul cloak means no damage and (B) because Cloak can quite quickly take you out of combat, once ZOS fix the "in combat" bug, which will cancel the mitigation.
It comes down to these points:Ugg, still don’t understand the complaints about the merciless mitigation. If you ever take damage in pvp, and you do, mitigation helps.
(1) If I take too much damage I shade or cloak. At that point I am mitigating all damage, resistances don't help me one bit, but I need some healing.
(2) Magblade healing has gotten so bad that it's, frankly, a priority. All the resistances in the world won't help you, when you don't heal well.
This is totally different from magden, by the way, who has reliable non-damage-related healing from every animal attack and, most of all, from that fantastic ability: Living Trellis. Would I swap cloak for that? No. Am I wrong to ask for something that synergises better with magblade playstyles, though?
Anyone who says that magden got nerfed and is a weak underdog class frankly hasn't got a clue. They have, most likely, not played all classes themselves and are only going by reputations. I play magden too. Magden has a bad reputation, because people couldn't figure out how to play it at first. In my experience the class works very well as a straight up magicka-stacking damage dealer, but probably even better as a controlling ice build. The reason I don't play it much is because I find the gameplay kind of bland.
Please don't get me wrong. Cloak is awesome at enabling open-world solo play. Only Streak comes close. I wouldn't trade that for the world, however there are 3 other classes and I wouldn't put magden, or any of them, as the clear underdog magicka class in PvP. One of the reasons you still don't see that many magdens is, IMO, that the class is/was hidden behind a paywall and, perhaps, that stamden has the better reputation.
(3) Of course resistances are not nothing and every little help is welcome. However I have played with and without Minor Maim (15% mitigation) and it really doesn't make a difference to my playstyle. Let's explore why that is. I play a Zaan + Caluu ganker. My playstyle is that of a traditional stamblade, e.g. I will try and burst you from cloak. The biggest mitigation I have does not come from mitigation at all, it comes from putting people on the defensive at that moment and from their team mates not immediately realising what's going on. More upfront burst works far better than anything else on a nightblade.
The next best thing, on magblade, is IMO speed. Speed and the shade have a high synergy with cloak. I find mitigation works better on other classes, magplar for example, and when you stack enough of it. On nightblade - this comes after playing the class for a long time - it works better to be squishy, all damage, and elusive. At the very least I feel this is what makes nightblade unique. When I play the class, I want to build that way, otherwise I'd play something else.
I know what you're going to say. Poor me, I can build for all damage with no compromise. You are wrong. My friend plays sorc. He pointed out that, even while wearing Armor Master, his Force Pulse tooltip is 3K. That is an insane number I can only dream of. My Force Pulse tooltip is below 2K. For all the damage buffs NB has / had, I don't know how to get magblade to similar straight up damage. Not without compromising my Cloak sustain and speed, which are essential to my playstyle. This is perhaps why many magblades claim melee magblade is not viable and is suicide. So please be aware: Yes, Caluu + Zaan is strong open-world, but in order to make this a viable build I rely on that high Cloak sustain and speed. Inbetween the procs my damage is hugely compromised.
In my book Grim Focus is a fine skill for duelling. In open world it is a crap skill. The wind-up time is far too long. Supposing I only used the skill for the mitigation, that has the opposite of a synergy - an anti-synergy? - with Cloak. (A) because a successul cloak means no damage and (B) because Cloak can quite quickly take you out of combat, once ZOS fix the "in combat" bug, which will cancel the mitigation.
It comes down to these points:Ugg, still don’t understand the complaints about the merciless mitigation. If you ever take damage in pvp, and you do, mitigation helps.
(1) If I take too much damage I shade or cloak. At that point I am mitigating all damage, resistances don't help me one bit, but I need some healing.
(2) Magblade healing has gotten so bad that it's, frankly, a priority. All the resistances in the world won't help you, when you don't heal well.
This is totally different from magden, by the way, who has reliable non-damage-related healing from every animal attack and, most of all, from that fantastic ability: Living Trellis. Would I swap cloak for that? No. Am I wrong to ask for something that synergises better with magblade playstyles, though?
Anyone who says that magden got nerfed and is a weak underdog class frankly hasn't got a clue. They have, most likely, not played all classes themselves and are only going by reputations. I play magden too. Magden has a bad reputation, because people couldn't figure out how to play it at first. In my experience the class works very well as a straight up magicka-stacking damage dealer, but probably even better as a controlling ice build. The reason I don't play it much is because I find the gameplay kind of bland.
Please don't get me wrong. Cloak is awesome at enabling open-world solo play. Only Streak comes close. I wouldn't trade that for the world, however there are 3 other classes and I wouldn't put magden, or any of them, as the clear underdog magicka class in PvP. One of the reasons you still don't see that many magdens is, IMO, that the class is/was hidden behind a paywall and, perhaps, that stamden has the better reputation.
(3) Of course resistances are not nothing and every little help is welcome. However I have played with and without Minor Maim (15% mitigation) and it really doesn't make a difference to my playstyle. Let's explore why that is. I play a Zaan + Caluu ganker. My playstyle is that of a traditional stamblade, e.g. I will try and burst you from cloak. The biggest mitigation I have does not come from mitigation at all, it comes from putting people on the defensive at that moment and from their team mates not immediately realising what's going on. More upfront burst works far better than anything else on a nightblade.
The next best thing, on magblade, is IMO speed. Speed and the shade have a high synergy with cloak. I find mitigation works better on other classes, magplar for example, and when you stack enough of it. On nightblade - this comes after playing the class for a long time - it works better to be squishy, all damage, and elusive. At the very least I feel this is what makes nightblade unique. When I play the class, I want to build that way, otherwise I'd play something else.
I know what you're going to say. Poor me, I can build for all damage with no compromise. You are wrong. My friend plays sorc. He pointed out that, even while wearing Armor Master, his Force Pulse tooltip is 3K. That is an insane number I can only dream of. My Force Pulse tooltip is below 2K. For all the damage buffs NB has / had, I don't know how to get magblade to similar straight up damage. Not without compromising my Cloak sustain and speed, which are essential to my playstyle. This is perhaps why many magblades claim melee magblade is not viable and is suicide. So please be aware: Yes, Caluu + Zaan is strong open-world, but in order to make this a viable build I rely on that high Cloak sustain and speed. Inbetween the procs my damage is hugely compromised.
In my book Grim Focus is a fine skill for duelling. In open world it is a crap skill. The wind-up time is far too long. Supposing I only used the skill for the mitigation, that has the opposite of a synergy - an anti-synergy? - with Cloak. (A) because a successul cloak means no damage and (B) because Cloak can quite quickly take you out of combat, once ZOS fix the "in combat" bug, which will cancel the mitigation.
@fred4
Yea, I’ve seen your opinion before and remember your playstyle. Your posts are well articulated, but I still don’t agree with them.
Here’s some things I think you haven’t considered:
1. ZoS has gone out of their way to nerf your playstyle. The issue is newer pvpers have too rough of a start to pvp because they get bursted down in seconds. Not everyone uses the forums and new players tend to get demolished.
Why do I think that? All forms of single target burst have been nerfed: Snipe, Dark Flare, Incap. So while gankers are already ineffective against experienced players they went ahead and nerfed it anyways to try and improve the new player experience.
The other thing that not a lot of people have talked about in regards to NBs is the aoe buffs. It will be close to impossible to stay in cloak post patch because of aoe spam. Have you seen the new caltrops? 28m range, huge area, damage the same as sap with a trailing dot. If abilities like this are spammed, it will be next to impossible to cloak.
2. Right now you’re going through a live scenario and applying it to a PTS environment believing pvp will remain relatively the same post patch. It will not.
3. Mitigation is better then more self healing. It’s a math thing. If you reduce incoming damage by half for example, you need half the self healing to break even. Mitigation is like having a higher health pool plus more self healing.
However this isn’t the main benefit. The main benefit is during cc, while cc’d you either have enough mitigation plus health to survive the burst until you have control again or you don’t. Surviving that burst while cc’d is what separates good pvpers from mediocre ones.
In your case you’ve likely been able to escape and been on the giving end of cc and burst. With aoe changes escaping will be WAY more difficult. I imagine shade will become more effective then cloak. Lotus fan in > stun > burst > shade out with dark cloak depending on how bad the aoe is.
HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »The mitigation buff + change to dark cloak is going to be huge for brawler builds. The damage lost will hurt but the mitigation access we are gaining is going to make timing burst more crucial but easier to pull off without having to worry about self heals as much. I’d recommend trying dark cloak with a black rose resto. It’s changed my play style on magblade but I’m starting to almost prefer it over the old ward.
HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »The mitigation buff + change to dark cloak is going to be huge for brawler builds. The damage lost will hurt but the mitigation access we are gaining is going to make timing burst more crucial but easier to pull off without having to worry about self heals as much. I’d recommend trying dark cloak with a black rose resto. It’s changed my play style on magblade but I’m starting to almost prefer it over the old ward.