Magblade is supposed to be a hybrid ranged/melee build. If you want to play a pure ranged build magsorc is probably a better option.

ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »

Magblade is supposed to be a hybrid ranged/melee build. If you want to play a pure ranged build magsorc is probably a better option.

Yes, I do understand. Since soul harvest and fear are melee skills. But a hybrid would make sense of nightblades had effective skills that made them viable in melee range. A heal or something to take some abuse.

They already nerfed dark cloak so now it's a dog shite version of mutagen.

The snare removal is nice but it won't save you when multiple people gang up on you.

Damage migitation can work in no cp but it isn't effective in cp campaigns.

They gave nerfs to the class disguised as buffs for survivability while they actually won't even be useful most of the time cos you will have to shoot the bow for burst.

Victor_Blade wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Yup, removed/nerfed a whole playstyle by beefing cripple.

It was a great gap closer, fight opener and a good dot with stun. It wasn't overperforming in the slightest.

Let's say it won't completely destroy a playstyle. But how do you justify a normal skill getting nerfed for no reason?

Might be changing in 3 months given the single target dot audit?

Edit: Clarity

Dark cloak can EASILY out heal mutagen btw. DC ticks per second. Mutagen/rapid ticks every 1.5-2~ seconds. I actually expect that to end up a slight buff for my no cloak blade considering more uptime in minor protection.

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Another nightblade qq'ing on the forums about not getting another buff to their already over-tuned class. Cry me a river. Meanwhile, the unfinished Necromancer class has barely had any focus on working on tuning its abilities and like the Warden, its magicka capabilities are sub-par at best.

This again another magic user qq’ing cry me a river I’m sure you will be asking for pet sorcs to be buff next Q-Q everyone has a right to be upset about nerfs to there class.

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Another nightblade qq'ing on the forums about not getting another buff to their already over-tuned class. Cry me a river. Meanwhile, the unfinished Necromancer class has barely had any focus on working on tuning its abilities and like the Warden, its magicka capabilities are sub-par at best.

This again another magic user qq’ing cry me a river I’m sure you will be asking for pet sorcs to be buff next Q-Q everyone has a right to be upset about nerfs to there class.

I play a magicka Warden, the least loved class spec. As perhaps the leading authority on playing as the underdog in the midst of nerfs to your class, get over it. Adapt or move on.

Another MagWarden main here...and I don’t know about underdog but mnb ain’t in a good place. It’s a very fun kit that has way too much work involved.

lnigo wrote: »

Magblade survivability is bad? They literally have the best tools in their kit to reset any fight 1v1 or 1vX and completely avoid or evade zergs.

While that is true, the way the lack of healing plays out is that I have to, at times, cloak away for 12 seconds to pop 2 Healing Wards, before I'm back at full health (and the alternatives to Healing Ward suck even more). You can argue that rightly gives opponents time to recover, but equally it can be frustrating for both sides. If I don't stay in the fight and only gank you from time to time, that is not by choice. It's by necessity.

In a duel against a decent magsorc I will cloak away or I will lose, plain and simple. The damage a magsorc can put out while wearing something like Pirate Skeleton, Armor Master and Necro is decent. The damage of a full damage magsorc, running something like Necro + Bright Throat + Zaan is obscene against my magblade, while they have 20K shields and take no damage most of the time. I can build for damage or for sustain or maybe even for healing with Troll King, but I can't have it all as, seemingly, magsorcs can. The Murkmire shield and Healing Ward changes were by all accounts meant to nerf sorcs. They did not, but they hit magblade hard.

This isn't exactly meant as a complaint. I fully acknowledge the power of cloak in open world and that is where I play my magblade. The problem I have with the Grim Focus mitigation buff is that it's completely useless for my playstyle. I practice damage avoidance. Yes, I will shield, but my shields are gone in one GCD against good duellers. A sorc can shield and fire off a burst. I cannot do that. Shields are frequently just a stalling maneuvre while detected or before casting fear or Forward Momentum and getting back into cloak. I am squishy af. If you get me, you get me. What would be nice, is a little bit of reliable extra healing, so you are not forced to disengage so frequently and you are not just deleted by a magsorc or a stamblade, if you stay in the fight. Reinstating the Healing Ward initial heal would go a long way for magblade, for example. I have played with and without Minor Maim. For my playstyle it makes very little difference, thus I have no great hopes for Grim Focus.

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Another nightblade qq'ing on the forums about not getting another buff to their already over-tuned class. Cry me a river. Meanwhile, the unfinished Necromancer class has barely had any focus on working on tuning its abilities and like the Warden, its magicka capabilities are sub-par at best.

This again another magic user qq’ing cry me a river I’m sure you will be asking for pet sorcs to be buff next Q-Q everyone has a right to be upset about nerfs to there class.

I play a magicka Warden, the least loved class spec. As perhaps the leading authority on playing as the underdog in the midst of nerfs to your class, get over it. Adapt or move on.

Magblade is far weaker then mag warden and magblade deserves way more attention then mag warden to.

Iskiab wrote: »

Ugg, still don’t understand the complaints about the merciless mitigation. If you ever take damage in pvp, and you do, mitigation helps.

It comes down to these points:

(1) If I take too much damage I shade or cloak. At that point I am mitigating all damage, resistances don't help me one bit, but I need some healing.

(2) Magblade healing has gotten so bad that it's, frankly, a priority. All the resistances in the world won't help you, when you don't heal well.

This is totally different from magden, by the way, who has reliable non-damage-related healing from every animal attack and, most of all, from that fantastic ability: Living Trellis. Would I swap cloak for that? No. Am I wrong to ask for something that synergises better with magblade playstyles, though?

Anyone who says that magden got nerfed and is a weak underdog class frankly hasn't got a clue. They have, most likely, not played all classes themselves and are only going by reputations. I play magden too. Magden has a bad reputation, because people couldn't figure out how to play it at first. In my experience the class works very well as a straight up magicka-stacking damage dealer, but probably even better as a controlling ice build. The reason I don't play it much is because I find the gameplay kind of bland.

Please don't get me wrong. Cloak is awesome at enabling open-world solo play. Only Streak comes close. I wouldn't trade that for the world, however there are 3 other classes and I wouldn't put magden, or any of them, as the clear underdog magicka class in PvP. One of the reasons you still don't see that many magdens is, IMO, that the class is/was hidden behind a paywall and, perhaps, that stamden has the better reputation.

(3) Of course resistances are not nothing and every little help is welcome. However I have played with and without Minor Maim (15% mitigation) and it really doesn't make a difference to my playstyle. Let's explore why that is. I play a Zaan + Caluu ganker. My playstyle is that of a traditional stamblade, e.g. I will try and burst you from cloak. The biggest mitigation I have does not come from mitigation at all, it comes from putting people on the defensive at that moment and from their team mates not immediately realising what's going on. More upfront burst works far better than anything else on a nightblade.

The next best thing, on magblade, is IMO speed. Speed and the shade have a high synergy with cloak. I find mitigation works better on other classes, magplar for example, and when you stack enough of it. On nightblade - this comes after playing the class for a long time - it works better to be squishy, all damage, and elusive. At the very least I feel this is what makes nightblade unique. When I play the class, I want to build that way, otherwise I'd play something else.

I know what you're going to say. Poor me, I can build for all damage with no compromise. You are wrong. My friend plays sorc. He pointed out that, even while wearing Armor Master, his Force Pulse tooltip is 3K. That is an insane number I can only dream of. My Force Pulse tooltip is below 2K. For all the damage buffs NB has / had, I don't know how to get magblade to similar straight up damage. Not without compromising my Cloak sustain and speed, which are essential to my playstyle. This is perhaps why many magblades claim melee magblade is not viable and is suicide. So please be aware: Yes, Caluu + Zaan is strong open-world, but in order to make this a viable build I rely on that high Cloak sustain and speed. Inbetween the procs my damage is hugely compromised.

In my book Grim Focus is a fine skill for duelling. In open world it is a crap skill. The wind-up time is far too long. Supposing I only used the skill for the mitigation, that has the opposite of a synergy - an anti-synergy? - with Cloak. (A) because a successul cloak means no damage and (B) because Cloak can quite quickly take you out of combat, once ZOS fix the "in combat" bug, which will cancel the mitigation.

lnigo wrote: »

Magblade survivability is bad? They literally have the best tools in their kit to reset any fight 1v1 or 1vX and completely avoid or evade zergs.

Okay but what happens when shade bugs out and someone drops an aoe or pops a decent pot? What do we do then? Heal? Dodge roll? Evading zergs and resetting a fight by cloaking out and sitting near a tree waiting for healing ward to run out is the best tool for defence? I hope you're joking or you've never played the class before because stamblades can use cloak and shade too. While also having vigor and dodge roll capabilities.

Edit : typos

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Ugg, still don’t understand the complaints about the merciless mitigation. If you ever take damage in pvp, and you do, mitigation helps.

It comes down to these points:

(1) If I take too much damage I shade or cloak. At that point I am mitigating all damage, resistances don't help me one bit, but I need some healing.

(2) Magblade healing has gotten so bad that it's, frankly, a priority. All the resistances in the world won't help you, when you don't heal well.

This is totally different from magden, by the way, who has reliable non-damage-related healing from every animal attack and, most of all, from that fantastic ability: Living Trellis. Would I swap cloak for that? No. Am I wrong to ask for something that synergises better with magblade playstyles, though?

Anyone who says that magden got nerfed and is a weak underdog class frankly hasn't got a clue. They have, most likely, not played all classes themselves and are only going by reputations. I play magden too. Magden has a bad reputation, because people couldn't figure out how to play it at first. In my experience the class works very well as a straight up magicka-stacking damage dealer, but probably even better as a controlling ice build. The reason I don't play it much is because I find the gameplay kind of bland.

Please don't get me wrong. Cloak is awesome at enabling open-world solo play. Only Streak comes close. I wouldn't trade that for the world, however there are 3 other classes and I wouldn't put magden, or any of them, as the clear underdog magicka class in PvP. One of the reasons you still don't see that many magdens is, IMO, that the class is/was hidden behind a paywall and, perhaps, that stamden has the better reputation.

(3) Of course resistances are not nothing and every little help is welcome. However I have played with and without Minor Maim (15% mitigation) and it really doesn't make a difference to my playstyle. Let's explore why that is. I play a Zaan + Caluu ganker. My playstyle is that of a traditional stamblade, e.g. I will try and burst you from cloak. The biggest mitigation I have does not come from mitigation at all, it comes from putting people on the defensive at that moment and from their team mates not immediately realising what's going on. More upfront burst works far better than anything else on a nightblade.

The next best thing, on magblade, is IMO speed. Speed and the shade have a high synergy with cloak. I find mitigation works better on other classes, magplar for example, and when you stack enough of it. On nightblade - this comes after playing the class for a long time - it works better to be squishy, all damage, and elusive. At the very least I feel this is what makes nightblade unique. When I play the class, I want to build that way, otherwise I'd play something else.

I know what you're going to say. Poor me, I can build for all damage with no compromise. You are wrong. My friend plays sorc. He pointed out that, even while wearing Armor Master, his Force Pulse tooltip is 3K. That is an insane number I can only dream of. My Force Pulse tooltip is below 2K. For all the damage buffs NB has / had, I don't know how to get magblade to similar straight up damage. Not without compromising my Cloak sustain and speed, which are essential to my playstyle. This is perhaps why many magblades claim melee magblade is not viable and is suicide. So please be aware: Yes, Caluu + Zaan is strong open-world, but in order to make this a viable build I rely on that high Cloak sustain and speed. Inbetween the procs my damage is hugely compromised.

In my book Grim Focus is a fine skill for duelling. In open world it is a crap skill. The wind-up time is far too long. Supposing I only used the skill for the mitigation, that has the opposite of a synergy - an anti-synergy? - with Cloak. (A) because a successul cloak means no damage and (B) because Cloak can quite quickly take you out of combat, once ZOS fix the "in combat" bug, which will cancel the mitigation.

I guess were I'm coming from is just messing around with a bunch of set ups recently including Caluurion's. You're pretty right on a Caluurion's ganker that the mitigation from Grim Focus will rarely matter especially because you end combat before many light attacks or you're out.

I've had success with Caluurion's on live. It is probably the best solo magblade spec. My favorite spec has been Engine Guardian/Spinner's/Master's Infero/Spell Strat Resto.
(Engine Guardian is off brand troll king partially cause it is on my stamblade and partially because my magblade has sometimes been a vamp because of PVE).
The Grim Focus mitigation will be more synergistic than speed on this spec in part because it is a lot more costly for this spec to invest in Swift because its trying to stack stats. The stacked damage results in giant overkills if a full combo lands but given how hard that is to do with the delay on live it just means that pressure and partial combos are more viable. Its not a great build but just 1 Protective jewelry helps and sometimes you just delete someone because Master Destro.
(Necropotence might be better than Spinner's if it wasn't on my magsorc and I didn't keep taking Shade off in a QQ because it bugged out just on some small cliffs in the middle of nowhere again. Can't wait to try Crafty Alfiq. Also should try Innate over Spinner's when I'm trying Refreshing Path but I hate how it doesn't buff light attacks.)
With this set up getting up stacks on Grim Focus is usually not a big issue other than the fact that magblade just isn't the best. Maybe running no Protective would be the right choice then so I can stack full stats and still survive a little come Elswyer.

The main reason why magblades are nerfed are stambldes. It seems that even devs are confusing these 2 specs. Don't know why, maybe because of PvE. Nevertheless magblade is currently definitely the hardest to play both open world PvP and battlegrounds. Why? Mostly it's poor mobility (RAT needs it's 4s immunity back) combined with nonexistent healing on demand, hard counters to cloak (don't forget about free piercing mark now, which allows stamblades to disable our main defense skill) and bugged shade. As far I can deal with cloak counters, lack of good healing options and poor mobility makes magblade probably the worst spec in the game.

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Ugg, still don’t understand the complaints about the merciless mitigation. If you ever take damage in pvp, and you do, mitigation helps.

It comes down to these points:

(1) If I take too much damage I shade or cloak. At that point I am mitigating all damage, resistances don't help me one bit, but I need some healing.

(2) Magblade healing has gotten so bad that it's, frankly, a priority. All the resistances in the world won't help you, when you don't heal well.

This is totally different from magden, by the way, who has reliable non-damage-related healing from every animal attack and, most of all, from that fantastic ability: Living Trellis. Would I swap cloak for that? No. Am I wrong to ask for something that synergises better with magblade playstyles, though?

Anyone who says that magden got nerfed and is a weak underdog class frankly hasn't got a clue. They have, most likely, not played all classes themselves and are only going by reputations. I play magden too. Magden has a bad reputation, because people couldn't figure out how to play it at first. In my experience the class works very well as a straight up magicka-stacking damage dealer, but probably even better as a controlling ice build. The reason I don't play it much is because I find the gameplay kind of bland.

Please don't get me wrong. Cloak is awesome at enabling open-world solo play. Only Streak comes close. I wouldn't trade that for the world, however there are 3 other classes and I wouldn't put magden, or any of them, as the clear underdog magicka class in PvP. One of the reasons you still don't see that many magdens is, IMO, that the class is/was hidden behind a paywall and, perhaps, that stamden has the better reputation.

(3) Of course resistances are not nothing and every little help is welcome. However I have played with and without Minor Maim (15% mitigation) and it really doesn't make a difference to my playstyle. Let's explore why that is. I play a Zaan + Caluu ganker. My playstyle is that of a traditional stamblade, e.g. I will try and burst you from cloak. The biggest mitigation I have does not come from mitigation at all, it comes from putting people on the defensive at that moment and from their team mates not immediately realising what's going on. More upfront burst works far better than anything else on a nightblade.

The next best thing, on magblade, is IMO speed. Speed and the shade have a high synergy with cloak. I find mitigation works better on other classes, magplar for example, and when you stack enough of it. On nightblade - this comes after playing the class for a long time - it works better to be squishy, all damage, and elusive. At the very least I feel this is what makes nightblade unique. When I play the class, I want to build that way, otherwise I'd play something else.

I know what you're going to say. Poor me, I can build for all damage with no compromise. You are wrong. My friend plays sorc. He pointed out that, even while wearing Armor Master, his Force Pulse tooltip is 3K. That is an insane number I can only dream of. My Force Pulse tooltip is below 2K. For all the damage buffs NB has / had, I don't know how to get magblade to similar straight up damage. Not without compromising my Cloak sustain and speed, which are essential to my playstyle. This is perhaps why many magblades claim melee magblade is not viable and is suicide. So please be aware: Yes, Caluu + Zaan is strong open-world, but in order to make this a viable build I rely on that high Cloak sustain and speed. Inbetween the procs my damage is hugely compromised.

In my book Grim Focus is a fine skill for duelling. In open world it is a crap skill. The wind-up time is far too long. Supposing I only used the skill for the mitigation, that has the opposite of a synergy - an anti-synergy? - with Cloak. (A) because a successul cloak means no damage and (B) because Cloak can quite quickly take you out of combat, once ZOS fix the "in combat" bug, which will cancel the mitigation.

@fred4

Yea, I’ve seen your opinion before and remember your playstyle. Your posts are well articulated, but I still don’t agree with them.

Here’s some things I think you haven’t considered:

1. ZoS has gone out of their way to nerf your playstyle. The issue is newer pvpers have too rough of a start to pvp because they get bursted down in seconds. Not everyone uses the forums and new players tend to get demolished.

Why do I think that? All forms of single target burst have been nerfed: Snipe, Dark Flare, Incap. So while gankers are already ineffective against experienced players they went ahead and nerfed it anyways to try and improve the new player experience.

The other thing that not a lot of people have talked about in regards to NBs is the aoe buffs. It will be close to impossible to stay in cloak post patch because of aoe spam. Have you seen the new caltrops? 28m range, huge area, damage the same as sap with a trailing dot. If abilities like this are spammed, it will be next to impossible to cloak.

2. Right now you’re going through a live scenario and applying it to a PTS environment believing pvp will remain relatively the same post patch. It will not.

3. Mitigation is better then more self healing. It’s a math thing. If you reduce incoming damage by half for example, you need half the self healing to break even. Mitigation is like having a higher health pool plus more self healing.

However this isn’t the main benefit. The main benefit is during cc, while cc’d you either have enough mitigation plus health to survive the burst until you have control again or you don’t. Surviving that burst while cc’d is what separates good pvpers from mediocre ones.

In your case you’ve likely been able to escape and been on the giving end of cc and burst. With aoe changes escaping will be WAY more difficult. I imagine shade will become more effective then cloak. Lotus fan in > stun > burst > shade out with dark cloak depending on how bad the aoe is.

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

The mitigation buff + change to dark cloak is going to be huge for brawler builds. The damage lost will hurt but the mitigation access we are gaining is going to make timing burst more crucial but easier to pull off without having to worry about self heals as much. I’d recommend trying dark cloak with a black rose resto. It’s changed my play style on magblade but I’m starting to almost prefer it over the old ward.

Tried this for a bit. Are you slotting two shields tho? Found that VERY resource heavy.