Many of you are having a tough time deciding whether or not you're casual or hardcore. I can shed some light into why there is this confusion, and why there are so many definitions of these terms.

If you're relatively new to MMORPGs, (as in you only picked them up within the last 5-10 years) then you're likely going to think it has something to do with either time played per week or by how high of a tier of content you are doing.

The terms Casual and Hardcore were around for a good while and the original definitions were what you'd expect. But they weren't really used in the slang methodology like we usually use (think Tank, DPS, CC, Raid, ect.).

So it goes back to early Everquest, right about the time Planes of Power hit. So to set the stage, we have to have an understanding how early EQ handled gear. Level requirements and even bind on pickup items were relatively rare. Most items could be looted and freely traded and could be worn at any level.

So it wasn't uncommon for a level 60 to wear items from level 20, 30, 40, ect. zones. Picking things that would be best in slot. In addition before the PoP expansion it wouldn't be uncommon to wear items from vanilla EQ and the three expansions out at the time (Kunark, Velious, Luclin). Though with some of the higher end Luclin content we did see SOME level requirements become more prevalent and some of the higher tier stuff was the best in the game.

However with the exception of the Luclin endgame zone, Vex Thal, there was nothing requiring true best in slot gear. You literally could create a character, put on some Fine Steel Plate or Banded Armor (Both crafted armors with just AC on them and no stats), pick up some cheap weapons and be ready for levels 1-60 with very little issues.

You had the options to get your planar class armor, your kunark class sets (well some pieces weren't worth getting), and maybe some faction armor from Velious to upgrade. But you could do this at your leisure. Kind of like you don't need Gold gear in ESO but it helps.

Bottom line is, you didn't really have any content that required heavy focus into improving your gear to be able to progress. Nothing like Vanilla World of Warcraft where you needed Tier 1 (Molten Core drops) to do Tier 2 raids (Blackwing Lair).

This changed in the Planes of Power expansion. The level cap went to 65 and the leveling areas required much more than Fine Steel or Banded. You needed a good mix of high end Kunark and Velious gear at the least as well as some mid to high end Luclin, just to survive or do damage outputs on these new much tougher encounters.

This led to people who had a relatively easy time getting groups finding themselves not up to snuff. Being removed from groups for underperforming, or being denied groups because of their lack of gear or *** (EQ's version of Champion Points). As you can all imagine, they didn't take this well. While most groups weren't being elitist, as you simply needed a minimum amount of decent gear across the group to make it work (kinda like our Veteran DLC dungeons). And it was rare for people to get nasty with others, it didn't really matter. People had their feelings hurt. They were not able to experience an expansion they paid for. And the player base split between those who had focused on making their characters as well off as they could, and those who sort of didn't.

Whether they were ignorant and didn't know what gear they needed or where to get it. Or if they simply didn't bother. The end result was the same. They weren't seeing shiny brand new content that they believed they should be able to see. And why not? They got to see Kunark, Velious, and Luclin. Imagine if Elsweyr open world mobs were on the same difficulty as Vet DLC dungeons. Many players would feel offput to say the least.

They didn't really blame Verant/SOE for this. They blamed the players who weren't letting them tag along in their groups. So they formed their own guilds and circles and claimed they were 'Casual' players. That they didn't have enough time to put into the game to have the best gear and ***. This was insinuating that those 'Hardcore' players were 'No-Lifers'. That they didn't have jobs and families to take care of, and they had all the time in the world to play the game in a Hardcore manner.

To put it shortly, 'Hardcore' was a slur to use against those players who had higher requirements for their groups. Players that gobbled up content as quickly as they can without enjoying the 'journey'. Focusing only on gear, only on stats, only on themselves. When in reality such players enjoyed the game along the way just like anyone who called themselves casual. They only had a different focus when it came to the time they played.

The truth of the matter is that you saw many 'Hardcore' players DID have lives outside the game. DID have jobs. DID have families, and did NOT have as much time to play the game as much as 'Casuals' claimed. In fact they used their limited time to play as efficiently as they could. Playing with like minded players who had similar schedules. So you'd have 'Hardcore' Raiders playing 2-3 times a week for a few hours at a time.

Whereas a 'Casual' played 5-7 times a week for many more hours, they could afford to be less efficient. But due to not scheduling their playtimes with others. They ran solo and had to rely on pick up groups. Groups being ran by a few hardcores that needed 1-2 extras but extras that had similar gear to be able to complete the content. And thus the greatest misconception in MMORPG history began, as explained thusfar.

Overtime the terms have evolved, but their baseline meanings are still under the hood so to speak. You can see it in this thread. Someone has tons of Veteran achievements, but doesn't want to call themselves hardcore. Hardcore had negative connotations that still permeates to this day.

By that definition of Hardcore, you are Hardcore if you schedule your playtime with others and play together to obtain goals. Though the term has been used in the past as a slur towards those players.

So I would be irresponsible if I didn't go into the term Causal being used as a slur as well. The term 'Filthy Casual' is well known. So this came around a bit later in World of Warcraft.

What happened here is players found that scheduling play worked wonders in WoW. Instancing with content opening every 7 days lent very well to that model. So these players who play with friends and guildies at set times were able to optimally progress content in WoW. WoW was also more accessible to many due to its theme and its generally fun nature and transparency with stats (you knew what did what). I'm hesitant to call it easier, because in 2004-2005, it was NOT easier than EQ, on the contrary, it was much tougher (tank and spank wasn't the go to mechanic like in EQ, even in normal leveling dungeons). It also had the ability of players being able to accomplish more in a shorter timeframe.

So many went on to raid. Some didn't. And lets just say that all those who were raiding weren't the same people in EQ. So when they were being called 'Hardcore' as a slur, they realized it and like how the early American Patriots took the slur Yankee as their own, so did these players.

They weren't really much different than the players they called 'Filthy Casuals'. They were just willing to put in effort to raid and do dungeons regularly. Where the 'casuals' weren't really trying to push for such content because they felt there was just too much in the way of requirements to do so. You couldn't exactly buy a set of Dungeon 1 set, you had to do those early Scholomance and Stratholme groups that had to be formed without a group finder, and had to have certain classes and roles present. It was very PoP like. But being pre-Expansion, it didn't require endgame expansion content to even break into.

But their minds were already made up. And a handful of players were now picking on them. Damage meters became a thing (though parsers were present even pre-WoW) that was now mainstream. And generally players in these 2nd Gen MMOs were not getting along.

And this brings us to what we have now. A multitude of definitions, connotations that people don't exactly understand, and people confused about where they stand. Hopefully this sheds a bit of light on understanding some of this.

Semantics.

I don't see a the point in trying to define these subjective labels.

So the definition of casual and hardcore are all over the place and everyone has their own definition of it

I see plenty of people who put 8 plus hours on this game a day but struggle with vet dungeons and other similar content like vet maelstrom. Is that person a casual cause he cant complete hard content but puts in a lot of hours in the game?

Whar about pvp? What does casual or hardcore mean there? 5 star? Really good at pvp?

Also, casual make up a huge portion of this game but complain how hard certain content is like DLC dungeons, vet maelstrom, and vet trials. We end game raiders like new challenges, esp relating to 4 man or 12 man groups. Not everyone is gonna be able to complete every content but everyone has the opportunity to try and get better at the game

SoLooney wrote: »

So the definition of casual and hardcore are all over the place and everyone has their own definition of it

I see plenty of people who put 8 plus hours on this game a day but struggle with vet dungeons and other similar content like vet maelstrom. Is that person a casual cause he cant complete hard content but puts in a lot of hours in the game?

Whar about pvp? What does casual or hardcore mean there? 5 star? Really good at pvp?

Also, casual make up a huge portion of this game but complain how hard certain content is like DLC dungeons, vet maelstrom, and vet trials. We end game raiders like new challenges, esp relating to 4 man or 12 man groups. Not everyone is gonna be able to complete every content but everyone has the opportunity to try and get better at the game

Everyone does basically have their own definition of it. You might as well be debating what the word anything means at this point.

But what people can do is go look up the word casual - which is clearly defined in the dictionary. - then apply that. Assigning certain thresholds of skill to a word like casual has never made any sense to me.

I fall on both ends of the spectrum. When I want something, I work at it until i get what I want. Then it’s on to the next thing. I go hardcore when I need something tricky to get, or to achieve a goal. But i do plenty of casual play, and I play every day over 8 hours a day.

i'm don't exactly where i am. I don't try to try hard HL pve stuff, but when i have a team i certainly do without any trouble. I'm not spending any time on dummy or duels, but i'm doing what it can be called pvp HL. i would say i'm more a casual player with some hardcore player stuff in me.

I think the difference between hardcore and casual is not the amount of time one plays.

To me, hardcore is a player who pushes himself to exceed the envelope and get better and higher in a game. Which must be fun to him/her.

Casual, regardless of how many hours you play, if you're just moving along questing and other things, and are happy if your kill drops an upgrade in an armor piece.

I've been playing WoW since 2004, and early on, hardcore was a player who played every minute of the day. But, eventually that changed. People used to call me hardcore when they discovered how many hours I played, i.e., I had a steady 40-hour a week office job, and still played WoW up to 75 hours per week. It had nothing to do with hardcore, but with amount of time available for me to play.

I play a lot and consider my gaming style casual because I'm not at all competitive and don't care about how my gear or ability compares to other other players. That's my personal definition and it seems copacetic with the overall usage but occasionally people assume that means I have no interest in static groups, which is entirely the wrong impression. I'm not against organization and scheduled runs can be a highlight of my week with the right group of friends, whether we're working on something tough or just grinding relatively easy group content. While I struggle to see myself as hardcore at all, because to me that means intense and of an "in it to win it" no nonsense approach as opposed to trial and error, I've talked to people who look at it differently and view willingness to commit several hours a week to something that you might not see a reward from for months as hardcore in itself.

It's interesting to see how many people see them self as casual and play many hours a day, while I see my self as hardcore and play far less. I log on for raids or PvP and log of after, thats it most of the time. I often read that you can't have a job or social life and need to play all day in order to be competitive. This thread proofs pretty well, that that's nonsense.

Tasear wrote: »

Hmm.... what am I.

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Tasear wrote: »

Hmm.... what am I.

Casual 100%.

Absolutely casual. I play something around 25 hours a week, but I keep busy with overland content (questing and exloring), crafting, fishing, some daily stuff, events, and running dungeons when my friends need me.

I don't PvP (aside from occasionally running with a zerg during events, to get APs for nice furniture or skills), and will probably never have a character min-maxed enough for the toughest PvE content. I'm just not interested in it. Beating the game isn't my goal, and it doesn't provide my fun, I'm here for the story, the cosmetics (well, those that catch my fancy), the quests, the regions. Playing a dungeon once, for the story, is fine, but only if it isn't a Vet that requires much keyboard-skill, rotation-management and whatnot.

I have two characters that I play because I like them as character ideas, not half a dozen "toons" to fulfill specific roles in specific challenges. I'll equip them with the best stuff I can get/craft/find/buy, but I won't grind my head off for some BiS gear. I'll plan their skills to make them effective, and read stuff up, but I won't high-end optimize them for anything because that would reduce my overland experience.

So - definitely a casual player here.

Keeps my ptss in check and prevents me going nuts.

I am a casual and my play time doesn't fit neatly into your boxes.