Does selling vMA runs violate the terms of service?

msalvia · April 2019

I gather that selling trial carries is ok by ZOS's rules, but what about vMA runs? Since this is solo content--and to sell runs you would need to access another player's account--my assumption is that it is NOT allowed, but I keep getting conflicting answers. Any guidance would be appreciated (especially from a ZOS rep)!

idk · April 2019

I expect letting someone access your account is not kosher. I have heard it is a violation and it would make sense it would be. I know people who have let others access their account specifically for them to run vMA and in at least one case it was a business arrangement (that I cannot prove) that involved real world money.

As for that last, selling anything in game for real world money is a violation of the ToS without a doubt.

So in the end I am not going to go through the ToS but I am pretty sure there is a clause somewhere prohibiting the sale of the account, because it is not actually yours. I expect there is that or something along those lines that would be an issue with just letting someone access your account. But that is just my opinion.

Edit: There is a statement that says accounts cannot be transferred under any circumstances. Letting someone access your account is probably considered a transfer.

Edit: I am not an attorney and have not read every single word of the ToS. The above is merely my opinion and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of Zos, Bethesda, or Zenimax and probably every person in these forum will disagree with me.

VaranisArano · April 2019

In the TOS, Section 8, you agree not to "Attempt to get a password, Account information, or other private information from anyone else. As a reminder, ZeniMax employees will never ask You to reveal Your password."

Selling a vMA run would necessarily require you to access someone else's account.

redspecter23 · April 2019

Giving away your password and/or allowing someone else to access your account may be a violation of terms of service. In addition, it's incredibly foolish unless you have absolute trust of that person anyway. Someone charging for a carry is not someone I'd consider trustworthy enough.

msalvia · April 2019

Thanks for the answers so far; they are consistent with my interpretation of the TOS. I ask mainly because a guildmate asked if I would help them clear vMA. However, I clearly don't want to violate the TOS, so I think I'll just tell them it it a violation. However, if a ZOS rep can confirm that this is against the rules, that'd be great!

idk · April 2019

Zos is not likely to comment in this thread. I believe they cite the ToS when needed, but I do not recall them actually interpreting the ToS.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

In the TOS, Section 8, you agree not to "Attempt to get a password, Account information, or other private information from anyone else. As a reminder, ZeniMax employees will never ask You to reveal Your password."

Selling a vMA run would necessarily require you to access someone else's account.

Not necessarily. I can imagine my PC running my ESO account, but being monitored remotely by someone who has distant control credentials. He could, in theory, run VmA for me on my account without knowing my account information.
On PC it's more a dream than anything else, since nearly every remote control application has too much lag induced.
But on console, as far as I know, giving control over your device to another distant fellow player, or even sharing your account with him/her is a standard feature, that works well.

FleetwoodSmack · April 2019

I also remember a thread where people could do this on PS4 could do this with Shareplay and apparently it was supported? I could be wrong about that. It was literally years ago. Numerous people state that either Gina or Jessica said it was fine, but I'm too lazy to go back and look for it. Here's a few threads if you want to do some digging.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/302230/ps4-shareplay-against-tos
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/429885/maelstrom-arena-ah-via-shareplay-ps4-na
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/306040/share-play-free-vma-runs/p2

kyle.wilson · April 2019

A streamer had his account banned for account sharing with a relative.

But, it's always easier to catch known people than the random player for this kind of cheat.

It's definitely against the TOS.

DaveMoeDee · April 2019

Regardless of rules, I would just tell them 'no.' What is the point?

DocFrost72 · April 2019

Unless you use playshare (or whichever the name is) on PS4, you must log into an account that is not your own to sell a VMA run. You would be breaking the TOS.

Any real world currency exchange for in game items is also against the ToS.

The kicker is zos needs to catch it. Big red flag would be @ Examplename logs in from an unknown IP, proceeds to clear vMA, logs off, logs back in from the typical IP a few minutes later.

Kind of like popping smoke if you ask me.

KhajiitFelix · April 2019

kyle.wilson wrote: »

A streamer had his account banned for account sharing with a relative.

But, it's always easier to catch known people than the random player for this kind of cheat.

It's definitely against the TOS.

This is a very stupid reason to ban.

Mudcrabber · April 2019

If you log into someone else's account on your own computer (or vice versa), you risk having the accounts associated together, so that if one account gets banned, the other is too.

If ZeniMax terminates an Account, it may terminate other Accounts that share the same characteristics, such as the name on the Account, email address, mailing address, Internet Protocol address, or credit card number or other Payment Method. ZeniMax reserves the right to use any means necessary and permitted under applicable law to identify and terminate Accounts.

I don't know how consistent they are with that, whether it's standard procedure or just at their discretion.

If anything of real-world value is exchanged, like money, that might also be a problem:

You may not sell, and You may not assist others in selling, Service(s) or in-Game items for real currency, or exchange those items for value outside of the Services.

p00tx · April 2019

I'm reasonably certain it is against the ToS. Beyond that though, it's not a great idea, no matter how tempting it might be, because it'll ultimately cripple your friend. Clearing vMA is kind of a rite of passage that marks a player's advancement from mid to end game capability. It teaches you a lot of really valuable in-game skills and gets you to know your character really well.

Your friend would be better served with some encouragement and some build help. When I first cleared it, my friends had me stream my run so they could coach me through it. It was super helpful up until the final boss where I had to just shut out the world, grit my teeth, and dig in.

kyle.wilson · April 2019

Mudcrabber wrote: »

If you log into someone else's account on your own computer (or vice versa), you risk having the accounts associated together, so that if one account gets banned, the other is too.

If ZeniMax terminates an Account, it may terminate other Accounts that share the same characteristics, such as the name on the Account, email address, mailing address, Internet Protocol address, or credit card number or other Payment Method. ZeniMax reserves the right to use any means necessary and permitted under applicable law to identify and terminate Accounts.

I don't know how consistent they are with that, whether it's standard procedure or just at their discretion.

If anything of real-world value is exchanged, like money, that might also be a problem:

You may not sell, and You may not assist others in selling, Service(s) or in-Game items for real currency, or exchange those items for value outside of the Services.

Another streamer was permanently banned after selling an achievement skin for cash.

Danksta · April 2019

If you're on PS4 you can do this via Shareplay (I'm not sure if XB1 has a similar feature) without breaking the ToS. From what I've heard there's about a one second delay using Shareplay.

KRBMMO · April 2019

I'd be really worried that someone who is immoral enough to sell the runs might just be immoral enough to change your password and email and keep your account after you pay them something upfront - then sell your whole account on wherever they sell that stuff.

zaria · April 2019

KRBMMO wrote: »

I'd be really worried that someone who is immoral enough to sell the runs might just be immoral enough to change your password and email and keep your account after you pay them something upfront - then sell your whole account on wherever they sell that stuff.

This so much, or simply rob your blind if lucky.
You only do this with people you trust with your credit card pin code.

disintegr8 · April 2019

Sharing your account would be against the TOS - even though I suspect some people do it to chase emperorship in Cyrodiil.

zaria wrote: »

KRBMMO wrote: »

I'd be really worried that someone who is immoral enough to sell the runs might just be immoral enough to change your password and email and keep your account after you pay them something upfront - then sell your whole account on wherever they sell that stuff.

This so much, or simply rob your blind if lucky.
You only do this with people you trust with your credit card pin code.

I trust my wife with my credit card and PIN but I wouldn't trust her with my ESO account!!!

Protossyder · April 2019

KRBMMO wrote: »

I'd be really worried that someone who is immoral enough to sell the runs might just be immoral enough to change your password and email and keep your account after you pay them something upfront - then sell your whole account on wherever they sell that stuff.

Deserved I'd say..

SirLeeMinion · April 2019

I have found that contacting ZOS support directly on issues like this results in a clear answer - even when they do not reply on the forums. Answers from well-meaning players interpreting and quoting the ToS and EULA do not always align with what ZoS support says. If you really want to know, contact them directly. Then, save their response just in case trouble arises later.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · April 2019

Ps4 share is ok

Kurat · April 2019

Last week I saw someone selling trial and vMA runs in zone chat. He was asking 800k for vMA. I though he was scamming noobs or something so I asked him how is he selling it coz its solo arena. He said he asked Zos and was told its ok. He already sold 40+ runs, he shows ppl screenshots of previous deals and they trust that apparently and give their credentials. Dunno if he was talking bs and if it isnt against ToS but you shouldn't be buying any carries anyway, theres too many scammers out there.

redlink1979 · April 2019

When you aren't good enough, you can always be a lame player...

Goregrinder · April 2019

Selling vMA runs is the same as selling account power leveling.

msalvia · April 2019

Official response from a ZOS rep: selling VMA is a violation of the TOS.

wishlist14 · May 2019

🙈🙉I had no idea this sort of thing,was a thing.

I've been playing eso for 5 years since launch but before that I did play wow and a lady in our guild would get her son to do the Naxx dance for her because she would always die on that bit of the raid. I kinda found it sweet and cute to be honest. She was an older lady with very slow reflexes.

However, I find it kinda sad about someone paying for their vma weapon or achievement. Mainly because vMA is really aimed at testing a player's skill and if players feel they need to pay someone it means they don't believe they can do it themselves. Also it worries me that person is risking losing their account and possibly having it stolen. Not everyone is honest.I'm not accusing you of this just saying some people might take advantage of the situation.

wishlist14 · May 2019

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Regardless of rules, I would just tell them 'no.' What is the point?

I agree with you. What is the point right? Perhaps they want the weapon or the status that comes from having completed vMA

Turelus · May 2019

Sharing accounts is against ToS and yes selling a Maelstrom run in that way would in theory be against ToS.

However there are some grey areas as others have already pointed out. Consoles let you use share modes which ZOS can't really stand against, and if it was possible there is nothing which stops someone actively playing on your account on your own PC if they were to visit (although that's a pretty extreme case outside of friends doing it for you).

Minyassa · May 2019

Yes. I know someone who was banned for selling vMA runs. It was explained to them that it was against ToS to access someone else's account, regardless of whether it was voluntary or not, and that it remains a bannable action.