Incap -> dead

mcagatayg · May 2019

WTB class change tokens so i can change all my sorcs into nightblades. ZoS pls.

jaws343 · May 2019

Cortimi wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

First of all let me do the math for you about how well dodgin 3 times in a row works out in a no cp pvp enviroment. Base cost of dodging is around 4k, now each time you dodge said base cost will get increased by 33% with the dodge fatigue. Now dodging 3 times in a row will cost around 15k stam give or take. But after that you are also gonna need 5k stam to break the following undodgeable, unblockable cc. Now please show me a competitive mag no cp pvp build which runs minimum 20k stam and still does good damage and does good enough healing.

The Problem with the incap change is not that it rewards you for being melee. The problem with it is that any mag player hit with it will inevitably die unless they are in some troll tank build. If you dont die in the first 10 seconds because you happen to run 20k+ stam (lul) then you will die in the following fight from the insane stamina pressure unless your opponent doesnt know how to play.

@Cortimi

Wow, where to even begin with all the logical fallacies here.

First, is "the narrative" 10 seconds or is it 3 seconds? Incap isn't going to disable you for 10 seconds, so trying to throw that number out there is ridiculous and pointless and is only being done to make your "argument" more sensational.

Second, you use accurate numbers to support a faulty conclusion, and then throw a useless straw man argument in there for good measure. Nowhere once does the conclusion that any mag character needs 20K stam come into play at all in any way shape or form. In fact, by your own math, literally 9k stam is sufficient. 5k to break a CC, 4k to roll away. There you go, 2 seconds of the Incap is now over, and you may feel free to sprint or block for the remaining one second.

If you feel like you MUST dodge roll THREE TIMES IN A ROW (something not even stam characters do), you are the problem, again. This is a learn to play issue in the most fundamental sense and you are trying to use junk math and faulty logic. No.

This is an ULTIMATE ability, you should NOT be able to completely negate it. It is going to hurt. That is entirely the point. If you actually understand the game however, you will surely see that this is nowhere near an "inevitable death". Just like every single other Ulti has a counter to LESSEN the impact, so thus does this.

And in the words of allllllll you mag players who laughed and sneered when I raised objections to my Wings being nerfed into the ground:

lrn2adapt

You are just completely missing this abilities synergy with the stamblade toolkit.

Power Extraction > Now does nearly as much damage as a single target spammable, is AOE and undodgeable, provides major brutality

Fear> undodgeable, unblockable, CC's in place.

If you are hit with Incap, a competent stamblade isn't going to fear you immediately, you are going to dodgeroll or stand in place and block. They are going to hit you with Power Extraction. You just lost stamina blocking and still took a lot of damage. Or you dodge rolled, lost that stamina, and still took all of the damage of PE. And then you are going to block or dodge roll the next attack, but you are going to still lose stamina and take damage. And then, you are going to get feared. And that feared is going to stick you in place, and at this point, you most likely do not have any stamina. And everything before the fear is uncounterable, because you have no use of your primary damage, healing, or defensive skills.

Put it this way, imagine if a skill prevented you from dodge rolling, blocking, or using stam based healing skills for 3 seconds, and then it required Mag to break free from a stun. Stambuilds would be dead in the water with that skill + a stun.

Agrippa_Invisus · May 2019

Cortimi wrote: »

This is an ULTIMATE ability, you should NOT be able to completely negate it.

Please justify this statement in context of every Veil of Blades, Nova, and Suppression Field negated by Earthgore, a simple equipment proc.

Cortimi · May 2019

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Cortimi wrote: »

This is an ULTIMATE ability, you should NOT be able to completely negate it.

Please justify this statement in context of every Veil of Blades, Nova, and Suppression Field negated by Earthgore, a simple equipment proc.

Easy, VoB, Nova, and SF will all have ticked at least once, or pressured the user to proc Earthgore in a MIRACULOUS feat of timing, thus it was not completely negated. Next question?

Sanguinor2 · May 2019

Cortimi wrote: »

Wow, where to even begin with all the logical fallacies here.

First, is "the narrative" 10 seconds or is it 3 seconds? Incap isn't going to disable you for 10 seconds, so trying to throw that number out there is ridiculous and pointless and is only being done to make your "argument" more sensational.

Second, you use accurate numbers to support a faulty conclusion, and then throw a useless straw man argument in there for good measure. Nowhere once does the conclusion that any mag character needs 20K stam come into play at all in any way shape or form. In fact, by your own math, literally 9k stam is sufficient. 5k to break a CC, 4k to roll away. There you go, 2 seconds of the Incap is now over, and you may feel free to sprint or block for the remaining one second.

If you feel like you MUST dodge roll THREE TIMES IN A ROW (something not even stam characters do), you are the problem, again. This is a learn to play issue in the most fundamental sense and you are trying to use junk math and faulty logic. No.

This is an ULTIMATE ability, you should NOT be able to completely negate it. It is going to hurt. That is entirely the point. If you actually understand the game however, you will surely see that this is nowhere near an "inevitable death". Just like every single other Ulti has a counter to LESSEN the impact, so thus does this.

And in the words of allllllll you mag players who laughed and sneered when I raised objections to my Wings being nerfed into the ground:

lrn2adapt

Yes where to begin indeed.

First of all 3 seconds is the silence duration and 10 seconds would roughly be the duration where a cc can be reapplied since cc immunity has run out. So you simply do not understand and instead choose to delve into attacks.

Second 1 dodgeroll will not save you for 3 seconds so 9k stam is not enough to save you from 3 seconds silence duration and following cc after. Because why would you cc someone who is silenced if your goal is to simply win an extended fight? If I simply let you rolldodge for 3 seconds this is gonna drain a whole lot stamina and after the silence wears off I can immidiately cc you with an unavoidable fear so that is how this conclusion was reached. Once again you show that you do not understand. Dueling is all about being able to A burst someone or B drain someones resources, against mag players drain stam, so they cannot break free anymore.

Idk what kind of stam builds you play but generally a stam build can in fact dodgeroll 3 times in a row. But lets say I decide to dodge twice and block for the remaining duration. Said two dodgerolls will cost me about 9.3k stam. Then I block the following light attack ability weave. Base block cost without any modifiers is at 1760. If you happen to run sword and shield like quite a few mag builds do then said block cost will reduce to 1080 assuming you run a gold sturdy shield which is a good assumption to make. So if you block the weave with sword and shield you will add 2160 stam and if you block without a shield (or ice staff) you will add 3520 stam to that 9.3k stam you already lost. Now add a break free after that at the cost of about 5k and we do indeed exceed the 9k stam you claimed to be realistic, in fact we already exceed this with 2 consecutive dodgerolls.

You will not negate the entire ultimate and it will hurt regardless of the silence being there or not. It has a very high tooltip being a single target burst ultimate and adds 20% damage done for the next 6 seconds which you cannot purge.

If you were to actually understand the game then you would realize that standing in a negate for 3 seconds is a death sentence for mag builds and that is essentially what incap will do.

Magdk is my second main so I did not want to get changed wings either but thanks for generalising everyone once again in order to fit your narrative.

I encourage you to look past your sorc vendetta, or whatever mag setup it is that you hate so much that every mag setup ending up as collateral damage seems acceptable and actually look at the whole balance of the game.

@Cortimi

Cortimi · May 2019

jaws343 wrote: »

You are just completely missing this abilities synergy with the stamblade toolkit.

Power Extraction > Now does nearly as much damage as a single target spammable, is AOE and undodgeable, provides major brutality

Fear> undodgeable, unblockable, CC's in place.

If you are hit with Incap, a competent stamblade isn't going to fear you immediately, you are going to dodgeroll or stand in place and block. They are going to hit you with Power Extraction. You just lost stamina blocking and still took a lot of damage. Or you dodge rolled, lost that stamina, and still took all of the damage of PE. And then you are going to block or dodge roll the next attack, but you are going to still lose stamina and take damage. And then, you are going to get feared. And that feared is going to stick you in place, and at this point, you most likely do not have any stamina. And everything before the fear is uncounterable, because you have no use of your primary damage, healing, or defensive skills.

Put it this way, imagine if a skill prevented you from dodge rolling, blocking, or using stam based healing skills for 3 seconds, and then it required Mag to break free from a stun. Stambuilds would be dead in the water with that skill + a stun.

OR....................................

You could you know, move? Or maybe use a Potion of Immovability? Just so everyone knows, health/immobile potions are sold at siege merchants.

Cortimi · May 2019

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

If you were to actually understand the game then you would realize that standing in a negate for 3 seconds is a death sentence for mag builds and that is essentially what incap will do.

@Cortimi

The cutest part is, I have explained AT LENGTH how to deal with the upcoming changes, yet you refuse to listen. BTW, you find that Temp shield yet, you know, the one I had to link for you? @Sanguinor2

To recap:
You have skills that will mitigate soft CC, use them.
You have options to counter hard CC, use them.
You have POTIONS that will even help with CC, use them.
You do NOT have to rely on stam for everything.
You do NOT have to rely on mag for everything.

If you refuse to use the tools at your disposal and adjust your play style, then you deserve to lose. /thread

I'm out, peace.

jaws343 · May 2019

Cortimi wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

You are just completely missing this abilities synergy with the stamblade toolkit.

Power Extraction > Now does nearly as much damage as a single target spammable, is AOE and undodgeable, provides major brutality

Fear> undodgeable, unblockable, CC's in place.

If you are hit with Incap, a competent stamblade isn't going to fear you immediately, you are going to dodgeroll or stand in place and block. They are going to hit you with Power Extraction. You just lost stamina blocking and still took a lot of damage. Or you dodge rolled, lost that stamina, and still took all of the damage of PE. And then you are going to block or dodge roll the next attack, but you are going to still lose stamina and take damage. And then, you are going to get feared. And that feared is going to stick you in place, and at this point, you most likely do not have any stamina. And everything before the fear is uncounterable, because you have no use of your primary damage, healing, or defensive skills.

Put it this way, imagine if a skill prevented you from dodge rolling, blocking, or using stam based healing skills for 3 seconds, and then it required Mag to break free from a stun. Stambuilds would be dead in the water with that skill + a stun.

OR....................................

You could you know, move? Or maybe use a Potion of Immovability? Just so everyone knows, health/immobile potions are sold at siege merchants.

Yes, mag builds, especially magdks and madplars, will just walk away from one of the most agile classes. Meanwhile, they are getting wailed on for 3 seconds, with some of the highest burst potential in game. Great solution.

Sanguinor2 · May 2019

Cortimi wrote: »

The cutest part is, I have explained AT LENGTH how to deal with the upcoming changes, yet you refuse to listen. BTW, you find that Temp shield yet, you know, the one I had to link for you? @Sanguinor2

To recap:
You have skills that will mitigate soft CC, use them.
You have options to counter hard CC, use them.
You have POTIONS that will even help with CC, use them.
You do NOT have to rely on stam for everything.
You do NOT have to rely on mag for everything.

If you refuse to use the tools at your disposal and adjust your play style, then you deserve to lose. /thread

I'm out, peace.

Yeah I found that sun shield. I already knew said sun shield existed since its very inception but sure choose to believe that you "had to point it out to me" if it makes you happy. Can you find me the patch note which makes it actually useful again and where it can be cast while silenced? Good luck with that.

I have skills that will mitigate soft cc, which I cannot use while silenced.
I can counter hard cc but I cannot counter the 3 seconds silence without sacrificing too much damage in order to stack up max stam/stam recovery.
I have potions that will do nothing against a silence and are avaiable once every 45 seconds unless I make heavy sacrifices in my build simply to be able to survive incap.
I do not have to rely on mag for everything but I have to rely on mag to be able to heal for a good amount, deal decent damage, apply ccs, apply pressure and use most repositioning skills if I, you know, play a MAG build.
I absolutely do have to rely on stam in order to dodge and break free, maybe you can do it with mag but I sure cant.

If I were to tell you you need to run around 20k mag on every stam build or you deserve to loose what would your reaction be?

Have fun with dodging the conversation because you cannot understand why an ability that disables all your main abilities and usage of your main resource is a problem. @Cortimi

Agrippa_Invisus · May 2019

Cortimi wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Cortimi wrote: »

This is an ULTIMATE ability, you should NOT be able to completely negate it.

Please justify this statement in context of every Veil of Blades, Nova, and Suppression Field negated by Earthgore, a simple equipment proc.

Easy, VoB, Nova, and SF will all have ticked at least once, or pressured the user to proc Earthgore in a MIRACULOUS feat of timing, thus it was not completely negated. Next question?

Because obviously an equipment proc on a timer should be equal to an ultimate.

So I guess you'd be ok with the counterplay of being able to break out of the silence, like any other CC? Since you'd have had a moment's worth of CC on top of the damage done. That'd be fine, right?

I'm betting you'll say no, since you greedily want this extra power.

pieratsos · May 2019

Cortimi wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

So the counter to incap is to either roll dodge for 3 seconds or sprint? On a magicka build? Wow. Gz buddy. You most certainly win the award of dumbest comment of the month. Maybe of the year too.

Wait a second, you are seriously stating that you aren't able to figure out how to survive for three seconds...THREE....SECONDS, and yet somehow my comment is the stupid one? LOL

You understand that using dodge roll eats a second of that, so you are stating that you get bursted down in LITERALLY TWO SECONDS. Homie that isn't an ESO issue, that's a YOU issue.

No that's not me the issue. In eso if you can't burst someone who can't cast any ability in 3 seconds or even bring him to a point where it's almost impossible to recover then u are the one with the issue not me and please refrain from repeating this nonsense again cause the only thing u are proving is that you don't know crap about pvp.

Look I'm not gonna sit here and try to reason with you why silence is horrible on incap. Feel free to make a thread and educate people on why the change is good and the available counters so u can embarrass urself publicly.

Btw aren't you the one whining about sorcs? What's the matter? Why don't u listen to ur own advice and adapt.

Rygonix · May 2019

Cortimi wrote: »

Third, you ask about Temp shields, so at this point it is pretty obvious you are unfamiliar with the game, so I will point you to a handy site that shows what skills are available to Temp, specifically, the class shield which you "can't see anywhere": Sun Shield which can be used with or without the Light Armor shield.

Uhh, sun shield is literally the worst shield in the game. There is a reason he didn't mention it in his post. Any templar using it is bad. You should know this if you are as knowledgeable as you present yourself to be.

hakan · May 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

All this fighting between MagSorcs and StamBlades screaming about nerfing the other one...

...and all the rest of the builds just want to be buffed to their level.

No. Even though people like to act like they play the underdog, they still hit as hard as snb/msorc. while being tanky.

Sure, some things needs adjustment but people overreact abd think every build needs to operate the same.

Mayrael · May 2019

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

All this fighting between MagSorcs and StamBlades screaming about nerfing the other one...

...and all the rest of the builds just want to be buffed to their level.

Even worse in this case, they end up as collateral Damage.

Yeah... Again stamblades get buffed instead of nerfed, the rest gets nothing special except of magblades which now are totally free aps for stamblades:
- You can't defend after incap! And even if you survive somehow let's allow stamblade to mark you for free so you can't use cloak.
- But magblade can do the same for stamblade!
- So what? Stamblade still has Rally, Vigor, roll dodge and superior mobility.
- But magblades are OP! They can use soul assault that deals 10000000 undoegeable damage ;( it's to hard for us to use cloak after 2s to break it!

Literally stamblades received this patch 2 hard counters without counterplay against magblades. I'm disappointed @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam
Please explain us how magblades are supposed to fight stamblades now?