Incap -> dead

jcm2606 · May 2019

Vapirko wrote: »

They obviously couldn't figure out how to make the mangle work, are running out of time in this PTS cycle, had come to far to revert the changes and were like what can we do that would be super easy...

That doesn't make sense when you consider how Rune Cage and dual wield enchants were balanced like a week or two after the PTS ended and the patch was rolled out. If they're set on Mangle, keep it in for the time being, but after the patch has ended, revisit it.

MartiniDaniels · May 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

All this fighting between MagSorcs and StamBlades screaming about nerfing the other one...

...and all the rest of the builds just want to be buffed to their level.

Yep, why they can't just make seething fury as a passive in ardent.. they may leave 33/66/100% damage increase on molten for damage morph and keep power lash as it is. Maybe slightly decrease damage numbers of seething.. but no, anybody must use now molten and strict bar composition..

Minno · May 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

All this fighting between MagSorcs and StamBlades screaming about nerfing the other one...

...and all the rest of the builds just want to be buffed to their level.

That's fine by me. Let them both fight over buffs after receiving a Nerf equal to the 2016 Templar kit filled with cast times, no proactive defense, and a spamable that requires aiming but does less DMG than their current spamable lol.

They will come back to reality real quick lol.

MalcolM24 · May 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

All this fighting between MagSorcs and StamBlades screaming about nerfing the other one...

...and all the rest of the builds just want to be buffed to their level.

Well I did make this post with every class in mind. It's not like I'll ever play a magblade with this incap buff.

Girl_Number8 · May 2019

Cortimi wrote: »

As a stam player, I find this a VERY welcome change. The fact that entire mag-class community will be flipping out over ONE class having ONE hard counter is a testament to just how brokenly overperforming mag-classes (Sorcs) are/were and just how terrified they are of having a legitimate counterplay to the cheese they have been running rampant with.

Notice, there are no stamblades crying about how the silence will prevent cloaking? It's just magsorcs mad because now they won't be able to faceroll.

I play all the classes and yes I think this is a bad change. You're wrong, this will affect all magic classes not just sorcys. This is just a bad decision all the way. I never thought I would say that but this one is.

Just revert incap to what it was before, lol.

HowlKimchi · May 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

So there were 2 dominating classes - stamblade and magsorc. Others were slightly behind, magblade was bad. ZOS nerfs everyone with exception of stamblade and magsorc, nerfs magblade more then anybody and then gives stamblade hard counter to magsorcs...

... and magblades.

Bergzorn · May 2019

I wonder how many Stamblades came when reading the patch notes.

Derra · May 2019

Juhasow wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

So there were 2 dominating classes - stamblade and magsorc. Others were slightly behind, magblade was bad. ZOS nerfs everyone with exception of stamblade and magsorc, nerfs magblade more then anybody and then gives stamblade hard counter to magsorcs...

You speak a lot but you don't understand what you read.

Sorc got 20% less shield than on live.

Sorcs pets got 50% less healing from live.

Sorcs matriarch and scamp + monster set (shadowrend, Maw of the infernal) got 15% nerf from deadric prey.

And ZoS didn't nerfed sorc ?

Really ?

They litterally nerfed why people complain about : pets build.

In most cases shield value is not changed at all. Personally in PvP I have excatly the same shield value on PTS and live server in the same build in both CP and non CP.

Then you ran a bad build on live either not sporting enough hp, too much bastion or "too much" magica.

I barely hit the shield cap on live with the bug on virtually any build i ran (even the 50k + magica ones).
Depending on that every build i have lost between 1.5 and 2.5k shieldstrengh comparing live to pts.

Deathlord92 · May 2019

I love silence on incap may it be a lesson for the cry babies lmao stop trying to butcher nb 😂😭😂

ATomiX96 · May 2019

The mark spambush incap meta is gonna be fun when you get chased by 30 people and cant even streak, mistform, cloak, shield, heal up, use defensive ultimates or anything.
People underestimate how long 3 seconds are when you get chased by 30 people.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

This makes me wonder if anybody from ZOS actually plays PvP in this game lol...

At this point people should know, that ZOS doesnt play their game since One Tamriel.

Here's my prediction for PvP population in the next patch:

Feanor · May 2019

Daus wrote: »

Could be worse, you could be wearing medium armor against an opponent using Soul Assault + Haunting Curse. SA is an even cheaper ultimate btw

Who wears medium at all at this point? And specifically, which Sorc slots Soul Assault outside trolling in duo play? Or is this a console thing?

Qbiken · May 2019

Feanor wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Could be worse, you could be wearing medium armor against an opponent using Soul Assault + Haunting Curse. SA is an even cheaper ultimate btw

Who wears medium at all at this point? And specifically, which Sorc slots Soul Assault outside trolling in duo play? Or is this a console thing?

It's definitely a console thing. Soul assault is getting quite popular there now for some reason....

Juhasow · May 2019

ATomiX96 wrote: »

The mark spambush incap meta is gonna be fun when you get chased by 30 people and cant even streak, mistform, cloak, shield, heal up, use defensive ultimates or anything.
People underestimate how long 3 seconds are when you get chased by 30 people.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

This makes me wonder if anybody from ZOS actually plays PvP in this game lol...

At this point people should know, that ZOS doesnt play their game since One Tamriel.

Here's my prediction for PvP population in the next patch:

Let's face it most of the people dont care about balance. No matter how radicolous chanegs ZoS would've implement average casual player wont bother. That goes especially for PvP which is is worst shape it ever was. Average casual wants PvE content he'll be able to complete easily and get rewards for that fast or participatre in PvP and have chance to be effective from day 1 or just meme around roleplay and do storyline. ZoS makes sure that will be possible and this is their main goal. They're just shaping the game to bring as more casuals as they can keep them for long enough and make sure those casuals while having their adventure here will spend some money on ZoS's precious crown store. In Elsweyr it's more then sure that numbers will drastically raise up since dragons , necromancers and all that stuff that makes average casuals wet their pants and with that flood of new players it's obvious that even in PvP numbers will increase for some period of time.

ilcavallo · May 2019

Feanor wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Could be worse, you could be wearing medium armor against an opponent using Soul Assault + Haunting Curse. SA is an even cheaper ultimate btw

Who wears medium at all at this point? And specifically, which Sorc slots Soul Assault outside trolling in duo play? Or is this a console thing?

I figure that's what most stamblades are rocking. I mean you lose a lot of mobility, sustain and burst going heavy. I could be wrong though.

TheRealSniker · May 2019

ilcavallo wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Could be worse, you could be wearing medium armor against an opponent using Soul Assault + Haunting Curse. SA is an even cheaper ultimate btw

Who wears medium at all at this point? And specifically, which Sorc slots Soul Assault outside trolling in duo play? Or is this a console thing?

I figure that's what most stamblades are rocking. I mean you lose a lot of mobility, sustain and burst going heavy. I could be wrong though.

AHHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHA

Aedaryl · May 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

So there were 2 dominating classes - stamblade and magsorc. Others were slightly behind, magblade was bad. ZOS nerfs everyone with exception of stamblade and magsorc, nerfs magblade more then anybody and then gives stamblade hard counter to magsorcs...

You speak a lot but you don't understand what you read.

Sorc got 20% less shield than on live.

Sorcs pets got 50% less healing from live.

Sorcs matriarch and scamp + monster set (shadowrend, Maw of the infernal) got 15% nerf from deadric prey.

And ZoS didn't nerfed sorc ?

Really ?

They litterally nerfed why people complain about : pets build.

In short:
Sorc nerfs - daedric prey (blessed morph, I love when sorcs use this instead of haunting) and couple of fixed abused bugs.
Sorc buffs - minor buffs to a lot of abilities, RAT, nerfs of key opponent's abilities (wings, snares, scorch, cloak), removal of shield breaker, nerf of oblivion enchants

So as of 5.0.2 sorc was a dream class, with full pack of abilities and without reliable counters. Now it is justly toned down, but unfortunately together with other mag classes which were not over-performing in any way.

So I understand what I see on PTS, and what see you if your ward is capped by spell power and not by health? 0_o but ok, I didn't run sorc for a long time, maybe I am wrong and ward is capped by spell power, prove me wrong, I'm always open to new info and ready to accept that I'm wrong.

First, 20% shield size nerf and 50% less healing on pet is not something you can just skip.

You make a false point.

Race agaisnt time will not be used by sorc. Because they have no bar space. Race agaisnt time is actually closing the mobility gap between magicka classes.

Race against time is actually removing one of the sorc strengh by giving it to others : magicka class with mobility.

DK wings aren't nerfed, they have changed. It's still a counter.

No class has reliable counter, the game isn't build about hardcounter.

Other magicka classes aren't nerfed. They can even have a similar set to necropotence without pets.

The only magicka class nerfed in what people was complaining about is sorc (nerf in pets and shield).

You are wrong for shield. They are Health capped and scale of MAX MAGICKA. Sorcerers have a lot of magicka and health from necropotence + pet passive and with the 20% nerf, you don't reach the cap anymore unless you have close to 50k magicka, which is not something openworld sorc can afford.

ZarkingFrued · May 2019

This change is absurd and I oppose it strongly

MalcolM24 · May 2019

TheRealSniker wrote: »

ilcavallo wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Could be worse, you could be wearing medium armor against an opponent using Soul Assault + Haunting Curse. SA is an even cheaper ultimate btw

Who wears medium at all at this point? And specifically, which Sorc slots Soul Assault outside trolling in duo play? Or is this a console thing?

I figure that's what most stamblades are rocking. I mean you lose a lot of mobility, sustain and burst going heavy. I could be wrong though.

AHHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHA

Ye, basically you're wrong

jaws343 · May 2019

Feanor wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Could be worse, you could be wearing medium armor against an opponent using Soul Assault + Haunting Curse. SA is an even cheaper ultimate btw

Who wears medium at all at this point? And specifically, which Sorc slots Soul Assault outside trolling in duo play? Or is this a console thing?

Most sorcs are still mostly running meteor, or trying to run overload on Xbox. Most of the soul assaults I see, and they are few and far between, are from templars. Most of a Sorc's toolkit is direct damage attacks, and the best way to boost SA is with Thurm, which doesn't really help a sorc and is mostly a waste of CP. Magplar benefit most from stacking damage in DOT abilities, since their main spammable, and secondary skills, are all DOTs. Not to mention magplars are far tankier and sorcs running SA are sitting ducks for the duration.

And even if it were prevalent, most of the time you are using SA as an execute on low health targets, and if you aren't you are block canceling it right away to defend yourself against the allies of the player you are targeting. Unless you somehow manage to magically fight 1v1 in every encounter.

Ertosi · May 2019

Bergzorn wrote: »

I wonder how many Stamblades came when reading the patch notes.

I'm sure some did, but it would only reveal their negative character and complete disregard for fair play.

Personally, I have 3 Stamblades but was horrified to see this in the patch notes as it's just such a obviously bad idea. Everything needs proper counterplay and this change is completely lacking in it. Changes like this show a complete lack of insight concerning gameplay and mechanics.

Cortimi · May 2019

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Cortimi wrote: »

As a stam player, I find this a VERY welcome change. The fact that entire mag-class community will be flipping out over ONE class having ONE hard counter is a testament to just how brokenly overperforming mag-classes (Sorcs) are/were and just how terrified they are of having a legitimate counterplay to the cheese they have been running rampant with.

Notice, there are no stamblades crying about how the silence will prevent cloaking? It's just magsorcs mad because now they won't be able to faceroll.

Nice troll mate. Can we get a cheap, spammable mag ult that will disable everything that Costs stam because stamblades are overperforming? Every other stam class will be collateral Damage? Like Soul assault? It disabling sprinting, dodging, Blocking and stam abilities sounds fair Right? Or is there a double Standard going on in your mindset?

@Cortimi

Nice try, but you guys would also be crying about not being able to block, dodge, or especially sprint too.

Which by the way, the things I just listed, are the counter to Silence.

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

stam still has a defense (roll dodge and the ability to break free after rolling, magicka does not. Name one counter to stamina that is as hard as this, because magicka has NO counterplay to this.

If you can't break free and roll dodge at least ONCE, then your build is honestly trash and does not belong in PvP. I suggest running a different set such as Shacklebreaker, Impreg Armor, Trainee, or the myriad other sets out there that help give you the stats needed to PvP effectively.

Name one counter to Stam? Ok, here are THREE hard counters that mag classes have over stam:

1. Shields
2. Escapes (Cloak/streak/Mist form)
3. Heals

All things most mag classes do in ABUNDANCE that really pushes the balance in their favor. Denying it doesn't make it false.

You are crying because there is a counter that lasts mere SECONDS to your counters now.

Mag classes have the advantage of range. The reward for closing the range as a stam character is having the enemy at a disadvantage. Stam classes should be rewarded for being in close. This is how MMOs have always worked.

So if there are no powerful tools available for a MELEE class to contend with classes that have EXCELLENT ability to create space and remove themselves from disadvantage (the three counters I just listed above), what is the point of being that melee class?

You want the logic to go along the lines of "if a ranged mag class gets the jump on a melee class, they should obviously win from range" but yet reject the logic of "if a melee class gets the jump on a ranged mag class up close, they should obviously win". You can have it all your way.

pieratsos · May 2019

Cortimi wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Cortimi wrote: »

As a stam player, I find this a VERY welcome change. The fact that entire mag-class community will be flipping out over ONE class having ONE hard counter is a testament to just how brokenly overperforming mag-classes (Sorcs) are/were and just how terrified they are of having a legitimate counterplay to the cheese they have been running rampant with.

Notice, there are no stamblades crying about how the silence will prevent cloaking? It's just magsorcs mad because now they won't be able to faceroll.

Nice troll mate. Can we get a cheap, spammable mag ult that will disable everything that Costs stam because stamblades are overperforming? Every other stam class will be collateral Damage? Like Soul assault? It disabling sprinting, dodging, Blocking and stam abilities sounds fair Right? Or is there a double Standard going on in your mindset?

@Cortimi

Nice try, but you guys would also be crying about not being able to block, dodge, or especially sprint too.

Which by the way, the things I just listed, are the counter to Silence.

So the counter to incap is to either roll dodge for 3 seconds or sprint? On a magicka build? Wow. Gz buddy. You most certainly win the award of dumbest comment of the month. Maybe of the year too.

Cortimi · May 2019

pieratsos wrote: »

So the counter to incap is to either roll dodge for 3 seconds or sprint? On a magicka build? Wow. Gz buddy. You most certainly win the award of dumbest comment of the month. Maybe of the year too.

Wait a second, you are seriously stating that you aren't able to figure out how to survive for three seconds...THREE....SECONDS, and yet somehow my comment is the stupid one? LOL

You understand that using dodge roll eats a second of that, so you are stating that you get bursted down in LITERALLY TWO SECONDS. Homie that isn't an ESO issue, that's a YOU issue.

ccmedaddy · May 2019

lol @ people thinking roll dodging is a viable counter to silence when AOE abilities will hit as hard as single target spammables next patch

Joy_Division · May 2019

Cortimi wrote: »

Name one counter to Stam? Ok, here are THREE hard counters that mag classes have over stam:

1. Shields
2. Escapes (Cloak/streak/Mist form)
3. Heals

All things most mag classes do in ABUNDANCE that really pushes the balance in their favor. Denying it doesn't make it false.

You are crying because there is a counter that lasts mere SECONDS to your counters now.

Mag classes have the advantage of range. The reward for closing the range as a stam character is having the enemy at a disadvantage. Stam classes should be rewarded for being in close. This is how MMOs have always worked.

So if there are no powerful tools available for a MELEE class to contend with classes that have EXCELLENT ability to create space and remove themselves from disadvantage (the three counters I just listed above), what is the point of being that melee class?

You want the logic to go along the lines of "if a ranged mag class gets the jump on a melee class, they should obviously win from range" but yet reject the logic of "if a melee class gets the jump on a ranged mag class up close, they should obviously win". You can have it all your way.

I don't think you understand the concept of a "hard" counter.

Also how does a mag DK exactly have the advantage of range?

jaws343 · May 2019

Joy_Division wrote: »

Cortimi wrote: »

Name one counter to Stam? Ok, here are THREE hard counters that mag classes have over stam:

1. Shields
2. Escapes (Cloak/streak/Mist form)
3. Heals

All things most mag classes do in ABUNDANCE that really pushes the balance in their favor. Denying it doesn't make it false.

You are crying because there is a counter that lasts mere SECONDS to your counters now.

Mag classes have the advantage of range. The reward for closing the range as a stam character is having the enemy at a disadvantage. Stam classes should be rewarded for being in close. This is how MMOs have always worked.

So if there are no powerful tools available for a MELEE class to contend with classes that have EXCELLENT ability to create space and remove themselves from disadvantage (the three counters I just listed above), what is the point of being that melee class?

You want the logic to go along the lines of "if a ranged mag class gets the jump on a melee class, they should obviously win from range" but yet reject the logic of "if a melee class gets the jump on a ranged mag class up close, they should obviously win". You can have it all your way.

I don't think you understand the concept of a "hard" counter.

Also how does a mag DK exactly have the advantage of range?

Also, how does any mag class have the advantage of range when a stamblade can hit them out of nowhere from cloak with incap and silence them, and then hit them with an unblockable stun and root them in place, while being directly on top of them.

artal · May 2019

Cortimi wrote: »

Wait a second, you are seriously stating that you aren't able to figure out how to survive for three seconds...THREE....SECONDS, and yet somehow my comment is the stupid one? LOL

You understand that using dodge roll eats a second of that, so you are stating that you get bursted down in LITERALLY TWO SECONDS. Homie that isn't an ESO issue, that's a YOU issue.

Well i urge all magicka classes to do as much dodge roll as they can. it will surely help them when i cc them after 2 sec and they sit there without stamina.
If you can't kill someone as stamblade in 2-3 sec while they cant do anything its literally your issue homie.

I almost always play stam chars and this change is *** beyond belief. Amount of instant burst stamblade can land its insane and now there is no counter to it by magicka classes? Seriously?
I mean pro nbs were reaping through their victims with easy already and now noobblades will be able to do same.
Hopefully this stupid idea is reverted soon.

Better arm my stamdk with loads of detection pots cause i will feast on gazillion of nbs roaming around.

Sanguinor2 · May 2019

Cortimi wrote: »

Nice try, but you guys would also be crying about not being able to block, dodge, or especially sprint too.
Which by the way, the things I just listed, are the counter to Silence.

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

stam still has a defense (roll dodge and the ability to break free after rolling, magicka does not. Name one counter to stamina that is as hard as this, because magicka has NO counterplay to this.

If you can't break free and roll dodge at least ONCE, then your build is honestly trash and does not belong in PvP. I suggest running a different set such as Shacklebreaker, Impreg Armor, Trainee, or the myriad other sets out there that help give you the stats needed to PvP effectively.

Name one counter to Stam? Ok, here are THREE hard counters that mag classes have over stam:

1. Shields
2. Escapes (Cloak/streak/Mist form)
3. Heals

All things most mag classes do in ABUNDANCE that really pushes the balance in their favor. Denying it doesn't make it false.

You are crying because there is a counter that lasts mere SECONDS to your counters now.

Mag classes have the advantage of range. The reward for closing the range as a stam character is having the enemy at a disadvantage. Stam classes should be rewarded for being in close. This is how MMOs have always worked.

So if there are no powerful tools available for a MELEE class to contend with classes that have EXCELLENT ability to create space and remove themselves from disadvantage (the three counters I just listed above), what is the point of being that melee class?

You want the logic to go along the lines of "if a ranged mag class gets the jump on a melee class, they should obviously win from range" but yet reject the logic of "if a melee class gets the jump on a ranged mag class up close, they should obviously win". You can have it all your way.

First of all let me do the math for you about how well dodgin 3 times in a row works out in a no cp pvp enviroment. Base cost of dodging is around 4k, now each time you dodge said base cost will get increased by 33% with the dodge fatigue. Now dodging 3 times in a row will cost around 15k stam give or take. But after that you are also gonna need 5k stam to break the following undodgeable, unblockable cc. Now please show me a competitive mag no cp pvp build which runs minimum 20k stam and still does good damage and does good enough healing.

Not all mag classes have the advantage of range, look at magdk for example. If you want to get technical stam actually has the potential for the advantage of range because the ability with the highest range in the game is a stamina one, many simply not use it so the advantage of range cant be as big as you are making it out to be.

Mistform and cloak are laughable escapes if you are already in melee range against any meta stam setup. If you cloak steel tornado will reveal you and mistform can easily be followed. Shields have counters in cp and the shieldbreaker set as well as any oblivion damage and get the same damage as a HP bar so the counter to shields is simply keeping up pressure. Stam classes have access to shields too if they so wish. Same for heals. Also where is this huge templar mobility and shield stack? Cant see it anywhere.

You are also generalising every mag class in the game to fit your narrative, are magblades and magplars really that op? No?
Didnt think so either.

Stam melee classes (and with the gap closer changes to Elsweyr mag classes aswell) have very good ways of closing the gap, you also happen to have a snare on your strongest weapon dot and the nightblade gap closer will buff your damage output by a good amount.

The Problem with the incap change is not that it rewards you for being melee. The problem with it is that any mag player hit with it will inevitably die unless they are in some troll tank build. If you dont die in the first 10 seconds because you happen to run 20k+ stam (lul) then you will die in the following fight from the insane stamina pressure unless your opponent doesnt know how to play.

@Cortimi

Cortimi · May 2019

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

First of all let me do the math for you about how well dodgin 3 times in a row works out in a no cp pvp enviroment. Base cost of dodging is around 4k, now each time you dodge said base cost will get increased by 33% with the dodge fatigue. Now dodging 3 times in a row will cost around 15k stam give or take. But after that you are also gonna need 5k stam to break the following undodgeable, unblockable cc. Now please show me a competitive mag no cp pvp build which runs minimum 20k stam and still does good damage and does good enough healing.

The Problem with the incap change is not that it rewards you for being melee. The problem with it is that any mag player hit with it will inevitably die unless they are in some troll tank build. If you dont die in the first 10 seconds because you happen to run 20k+ stam (lul) then you will die in the following fight from the insane stamina pressure unless your opponent doesnt know how to play.

@Cortimi

Wow, where to even begin with all the logical fallacies here.

First, is "the narrative" 10 seconds or is it 3 seconds? Incap isn't going to disable you for 10 seconds, so trying to throw that number out there is ridiculous and pointless and is only being done to make your "argument" more sensational.

Second, you use accurate numbers to support a faulty conclusion, and then throw a useless straw man argument in there for good measure. Nowhere once does the conclusion that any mag character needs 20K stam come into play at all in any way shape or form. In fact, by your own math, literally 9k stam is sufficient. 5k to break a CC, 4k to roll away. There you go, 2 seconds of the Incap is now over, and you may feel free to sprint or block for the remaining one second.

Third, you ask about Temp shields, so at this point it is pretty obvious you are unfamiliar with the game, so I will point you to a handy site that shows what skills are available to Temp, specifically, the class shield which you "can't see anywhere": Sun Shield which can be used with or without the Light Armor shield.

If you feel like you MUST dodge roll THREE TIMES IN A ROW (something not even stam characters do), you are the problem, again. This is a learn to play issue in the most fundamental sense and you are trying to use junk math and faulty logic. No.

This is an ULTIMATE ability, you should NOT be able to completely negate it. It is going to hurt. That is entirely the point. If you actually understand the game however, you will surely see that this is nowhere near an "inevitable death". Just like every single other Ulti has a counter to LESSEN the impact, so thus does this.

And in the words of allllllll you mag players who laughed and sneered when I raised objections to my Wings being nerfed into the ground:

lrn2adapt

Strider__Roshin · May 2019

Feanor wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Could be worse, you could be wearing medium armor against an opponent using Soul Assault + Haunting Curse. SA is an even cheaper ultimate btw

Who wears medium at all at this point? And specifically, which Sorc slots Soul Assault outside trolling in duo play? Or is this a console thing?

Well you know I do because I'm a glutton for punishment, and yeah a lot of magsorcs do on console.