So ...like gap closers are now useless for gap closing

Chilly-McFreeze · April 2019

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Elhan wrote: »

well, they also said:

"Drastically increased the speed of all of these abilities, and increased their auxiliary effects’ (damage, debuffs, etc.) range to ensure they always apply to their target."

did you test it before crying?

LOL I remeber them reducing the speed on all gap closers simply because they were unable to find a fix for the situations were ppl by using gap closer on someone entering the keep were able to "enter" the with them (accidentally or not).

Well, they like to run in circles, don't they? "We reduced the gap closer snare to 30%" -> "We increased the gap closer snare to..." - it's almost like they lack a direction and just test various things till something seems to fit.

e-rwan · April 2019

katorga wrote: »

e-rwan wrote: »

Sleep724 wrote: »

Crit rush new spammable?

If I understand the patch correctly, only gap closer ability that used to have a snare attached will recieve a buff, so crit rush will not be affected by the change, stampede will.

correct me if i'm wrong.

Different kind of snare. gap closers have a hidden snare to freeze the target enough to allow them to land, other wise you landed where the target was. It is not affected by snare immunity. Stampede has a normal snare debuff applied after it lands. That one is affected by snare immunity.

thanks for the clean explanation, I had no idea.

darkblue5 · April 2019

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Elhan wrote: »

well, they also said:

"Drastically increased the speed of all of these abilities, and increased their auxiliary effects’ (damage, debuffs, etc.) range to ensure they always apply to their target."

did you test it before crying?

LOL I remeber them reducing the speed on all gap closers simply because they were unable to find a fix for the situations were ppl by using gap closer on someone entering the keep were able to "enter" the with them (accidentally or not).

I've only had it accidentally happen in high-ish lag at outposts and keep side doors and it has been a death sentence almost every time baring the one time I was able to rollerblade my way back out over the wall. I can' think of any truly efficient applications with the changes made since the last time walls didn't repair correctly and remained broken.

Exploiters will exploit sadly. Still fond of the time I and others repored a player who was bragging in zone chat about exploiting the aforementioned wall glitch, people had screen shots of them doing it and everything, and then they got banne--- wait no they got a suspension for like 3 days a most. Guessing Zeni isn't too worried about people exploiting it.

GeorgeBlack · April 2019

Yes. Streak is s better gap closer than chains.
Good luck trying to pursuit an enemy using Chains. You got one cast, then it's CC immunity and you cant close the distance any more.
Streak closes the gap as many times as necessary. And it also opens it.

You do understand what Gap and Closer means, right?
You do understand that the use gap closer abilities is to reliably bring you to where an enemy target is when you want it?
That is what a gap closer does. Not to apply slow, that's what snares are.
Not to stun, that's what stuns do.
Not to apply bleed. That's what bleeds do.
Not to deal dmg. That's what attacks do.
Gap closers eliminate distance in a moments decision

Merlight · April 2019

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Elhan wrote: »

well, they also said:

"Drastically increased the speed of all of these abilities, and increased their auxiliary effects’ (damage, debuffs, etc.) range to ensure they always apply to their target."

did you test it before crying?

LOL I remeber them reducing the speed on all gap closers simply because they were unable to find a fix for the situations were ppl by using gap closer on someone entering the keep were able to "enter" the with them (accidentally or not).

Still happens with Ambush.

technohic · April 2019

I think this is a solution that they are actually getting right. The person gap closing will reliably gap close without also having the abilitiy to permasnare their target for the zerg to catch them.

My only concern is in lag situations where my templar used to get caught in the animation. Hopefully whatever resolved that did not have anything to do with the speed of gap closers.

MashmalloMan · April 2019

Xsorus wrote: »

Elhan wrote: »

well, they also said:

"Drastically increased the speed of all of these abilities, and increased their auxiliary effects’ (damage, debuffs, etc.) range to ensure they always apply to their target."

did you test it before crying?

Yea that doesn't matter, it makes me think you did not actually use a gap closer before.

Unless you're instantly put next to the target, the target will always be outside your range when you arrive.

It does matter.

Public TEST Server.

The snare was a bandaid fix to begin with. Never made any sense.

Sleep724 · April 2019

Blackrose prison S&B may have a use now... and I’m wondering about the maelstrom 2h. Does the dot tick immediately or is it delayed like other dots now?

Aedaryl · April 2019

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Yes. Streak is s better gap closer than chains.
Good luck trying to pursuit an enemy using Chains. You got one cast, then it's CC immunity and you cant close the distance any more.
Streak closes the gap as many times as necessary. And it also opens it.

You do understand what Gap and Closer means, right?
You do understand that the use gap closer abilities is to reliably bring you to where an enemy target is when you want it?
That is what a gap closer does. Not to apply slow, that's what snares are.
Not to stun, that's what stuns do.
Not to apply bleed. That's what bleeds do.
Not to deal dmg. That's what attacks do.
Gap closers eliminate distance in a moments decision

Again, a DK hwo doesn't know his class and come on forum to complain.

Empowering chains is a good gap close, dealing damage, being undogeable, giving you major expedition and buffing your damage.

It doesn't apply stun immunity, only abilities that pull ennemy to you does.

Also, streak cannot be used "as many times as necessary", there is 50% stackable cost increase if you use it again withtin 4s.

Try playing your class.

technohic · April 2019

Aedaryl wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Yes. Streak is s better gap closer than chains.
Good luck trying to pursuit an enemy using Chains. You got one cast, then it's CC immunity and you cant close the distance any more.
Streak closes the gap as many times as necessary. And it also opens it.

You do understand what Gap and Closer means, right?
You do understand that the use gap closer abilities is to reliably bring you to where an enemy target is when you want it?
That is what a gap closer does. Not to apply slow, that's what snares are.
Not to stun, that's what stuns do.
Not to apply bleed. That's what bleeds do.
Not to deal dmg. That's what attacks do.
Gap closers eliminate distance in a moments decision

Again, a DK hwo doesn't know his class and come on forum to complain.

Empowering chains is a good gap close, dealing damage, being undogeable, giving you major expedition and buffing your damage.

It doesn't apply stun immunity, only abilities that pull ennemy to you does.

Also, streak cannot be used "as many times as necessary", there is 50% stackable cost increase if you use it again withtin 4s.

Try playing your class.

I'd be curious to see chains on PTS as the gap closer version. The problem with it before was short range, then the animation for the chain played out before you start moving. Hope they speed that up a bit

Ayastigi · April 2019

can't wait for these snare changes coming with next expansion...we're getting closer to fast paced, reactive combat which is something i'm looking forward to. The increased speed to gap closers coupled with snare immunity is really gonna open up re positioning while in combat

Davadin · April 2019

Xsorus wrote: »

Elhan wrote: »

well, they also said:

"Drastically increased the speed of all of these abilities, and increased their auxiliary effects’ (damage, debuffs, etc.) range to ensure they always apply to their target."

did you test it before crying?

Yea that doesn't matter, it makes me think you did not actually use a gap closer before.

Unless you're instantly put next to the target, the target will always be outside your range when you arrive.

dunno bout other class, but as DK, my melee range is pretty damn far....

if they "drastically increased" it, then i'll have no problem.

makes me wonder how that'll change Invasion....... removed snare, so what does it do? did the snare actually got removed?

Davadin · April 2019

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Dragon Knight does not have a real gap closer. It's a joke

Magplar has
Nightblade has
MagSorc
2h has
SnB has

And they are not useless. You can catch up to any target using them again.

what?

chain is literally the poster boy of our class.

and, oh, u forgot Fighter's Guild got their own version of chain pull...

OrdinatorInMourning · April 2019

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Dragon Knight does not have a real gap closer. It's a joke

Magplar has
Nightblade has
MagSorc
2h has
SnB has

And they are not useless. You can catch up to any target using them again.

Wow, sure, Streak is better than DK's Take Flight or Chain 👍👍👍

TequilaFire · April 2019

Aedaryl wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Yes. Streak is s better gap closer than chains.
Good luck trying to pursuit an enemy using Chains. You got one cast, then it's CC immunity and you cant close the distance any more.
Streak closes the gap as many times as necessary. And it also opens it.

You do understand what Gap and Closer means, right?
You do understand that the use gap closer abilities is to reliably bring you to where an enemy target is when you want it?
That is what a gap closer does. Not to apply slow, that's what snares are.
Not to stun, that's what stuns do.
Not to apply bleed. That's what bleeds do.
Not to deal dmg. That's what attacks do.
Gap closers eliminate distance in a moments decision

Again, a DK hwo doesn't know his class and come on forum to complain.

Empowering chains is a good gap close, dealing damage, being undogeable, giving you major expedition and buffing your damage.

It doesn't apply stun immunity, only abilities that pull ennemy to you does.

Also, streak cannot be used "as many times as necessary", there is 50% stackable cost increase if you use it again withtin 4s.

Try playing your class.

True, when it works.

GeorgeBlack · April 2019

I returned from a couple years break.

I am a stamDK.
Please answer this:
If you cast the morph that pulls you to your target on a target that has CC immunity (on a target that broke free, or uses some other effect like potion of immunity), will you be pulled to that target?

cpuScientist · April 2019

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I returned from a couple years break.

I am a stamDK.
Please answer this:
If you cast the morph that pulls you to your target on a target that has CC immunity (on a target that broke free, or uses some other effect like potion of immunity), will you be pulled to that target?

Yes it has nothing to do with CC just closes the gap.

GeorgeBlack · April 2019

cpuScientist wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I returned from a couple years break.

I am a stamDK.
Please answer this:
If you cast the morph that pulls you to your target on a target that has CC immunity (on a target that broke free, or uses some other effect like potion of immunity), will you be pulled to that target?

Yes it has nothing to do with CC just closes the gap.

I was wrong

Pr0Skygon · April 2019

Xsorus wrote: »

Elhan wrote: »

well, they also said:

"Drastically increased the speed of all of these abilities, and increased their auxiliary effects’ (damage, debuffs, etc.) range to ensure they always apply to their target."

did you test it before crying?

Yea that doesn't matter, it makes me think you did not actually use a gap closer before.

Unless you're instantly put next to the target, the target will always be outside your range when you arrive.

This right here sums up the everything wrong with this whole thread: PLEASE TEST IT OUT YOURSELF BEFORE COME HERE AND COMPLAIN, PLEASE DON'T BE A "THEORY CRAFTER" ON A TEST SERVER WHERE TESTING IS AVAILABLE AND VERY ACCESSIBLE.

And no, I'm not mad nor want attentions, but TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS MY UNDYING PASSION!!!

BlackMadara · April 2019

TequilaFire wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Yes. Streak is s better gap closer than chains.
Good luck trying to pursuit an enemy using Chains. You got one cast, then it's CC immunity and you cant close the distance any more.
Streak closes the gap as many times as necessary. And it also opens it.

You do understand what Gap and Closer means, right?
You do understand that the use gap closer abilities is to reliably bring you to where an enemy target is when you want it?
That is what a gap closer does. Not to apply slow, that's what snares are.
Not to stun, that's what stuns do.
Not to apply bleed. That's what bleeds do.
Not to deal dmg. That's what attacks do.
Gap closers eliminate distance in a moments decision

Again, a DK hwo doesn't know his class and come on forum to complain.

Empowering chains is a good gap close, dealing damage, being undogeable, giving you major expedition and buffing your damage.

It doesn't apply stun immunity, only abilities that pull ennemy to you does.

Also, streak cannot be used "as many times as necessary", there is 50% stackable cost increase if you use it again withtin 4s.

Try playing your class.

True, when it works.

I find that many people judge empowering chains (EC) on how it worked when it was first changed.

I have used EC for about a month now, and not once has it not closed the gap, except when someone goes invisible. I have also not had any y-axis issues. I have, multiple times, gap closed up the scaffolding on the BG map with lava. The scaffolding that exists as you drop down each teams spawn location. That is about a 10-15 in-game meter height difference.

EC works. The only drawback for it is that you must fire out a projectile first, before dashing. This adds less than half of second of time compared to other gap closers. For that delay, we get a skill that cannot be dodged. Try it out yourself, before riding the forum wave or judging it based on its newly reworked state.

wheem_ESO · April 2019

BlackMadara wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Yes. Streak is s better gap closer than chains.
Good luck trying to pursuit an enemy using Chains. You got one cast, then it's CC immunity and you cant close the distance any more.
Streak closes the gap as many times as necessary. And it also opens it.

You do understand what Gap and Closer means, right?
You do understand that the use gap closer abilities is to reliably bring you to where an enemy target is when you want it?
That is what a gap closer does. Not to apply slow, that's what snares are.
Not to stun, that's what stuns do.
Not to apply bleed. That's what bleeds do.
Not to deal dmg. That's what attacks do.
Gap closers eliminate distance in a moments decision

Again, a DK hwo doesn't know his class and come on forum to complain.

Empowering chains is a good gap close, dealing damage, being undogeable, giving you major expedition and buffing your damage.

It doesn't apply stun immunity, only abilities that pull ennemy to you does.

Also, streak cannot be used "as many times as necessary", there is 50% stackable cost increase if you use it again withtin 4s.

Try playing your class.

True, when it works.

I find that many people judge empowering chains (EC) on how it worked when it was first changed.

I have used EC for about a month now, and not once has it not closed the gap, except when someone goes invisible. I have also not had any y-axis issues. I have, multiple times, gap closed up the scaffolding on the BG map with lava. The scaffolding that exists as you drop down each teams spawn location. That is about a 10-15 in-game meter height difference.

EC works. The only drawback for it is that you must fire out a projectile first, before dashing. This adds less than half of second of time compared to other gap closers. For that delay, we get a skill that cannot be dodged. Try it out yourself, before riding the forum wave or judging it based on its newly reworked state.

While I don't really disagree with you, I think some of the complaints about it being unreliable stem from Cyrodiil, where some things actually function a little differently than BGs. For instance, my Magicka Warden's "Spiderman Heal" usually works beautifully in BGs, as long as my team cooperates, but suffers from various problems in Cyrodiil...mostly getting teleported backwards after the pull initially appears to work, and not being able to use it with even modest differences in elevation between myself and my target (for example, I can pull myself up the stairs of the towers in Istrius Outpost, but not towers in Cyrodiil that are essentially the same).

jaws343 · April 2019

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Elhan wrote: »

well, they also said:

"Drastically increased the speed of all of these abilities, and increased their auxiliary effects’ (damage, debuffs, etc.) range to ensure they always apply to their target."

did you test it before crying?

Yea that doesn't matter, it makes me think you did not actually use a gap closer before.

Unless you're instantly put next to the target, the target will always be outside your range when you arrive.

This right here sums up the everything wrong with this whole thread: PLEASE TEST IT OUT YOURSELF BEFORE COME HERE AND COMPLAIN, PLEASE DON'T BE A "THEORY CRAFTER" ON A TEST SERVER WHERE TESTING IS AVAILABLE AND VERY ACCESSIBLE.

And no, I'm not mad nor want attentions, but TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS MY UNDYING PASSION!!!

Ok, I'm sure that console users will just buy a PC, and re-buy this game, so that they can get on PTS to test things.

While I think I understand what the patch notes are saying, it isn't unreasonable for someone to not understand, and the PTS forum is the perfect place to come and ask or throw out questions, or theory crafting, for those with PTS access to attempt to answer.

Dalsinthus · April 2019

zyk wrote: »

Didn't ZOS nerf gap closers within the last year? It wasn't that long ago.

The circus continues. There is no vision or long game. This is a studio that earns its income from cosmetics and the TES brand, so their game designers can get away with being completely whimsical.

I'm not for or against this particular change, though I don't prefer gap closers and liked that they were disincentivized previously. But the constant yoyo is annoying.

It's like Siege in AvA. Five years in and ZOS still doesn't know how strong it should be.

I feel the same way. I'm tired of the yoyo train in this game. I wish ZOS would settle on a vision and stick to it.

Xsorus · May 2019

jaws343 wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Elhan wrote: »

well, they also said:

"Drastically increased the speed of all of these abilities, and increased their auxiliary effects’ (damage, debuffs, etc.) range to ensure they always apply to their target."

did you test it before crying?

Yea that doesn't matter, it makes me think you did not actually use a gap closer before.

Unless you're instantly put next to the target, the target will always be outside your range when you arrive.

This right here sums up the everything wrong with this whole thread: PLEASE TEST IT OUT YOURSELF BEFORE COME HERE AND COMPLAIN, PLEASE DON'T BE A "THEORY CRAFTER" ON A TEST SERVER WHERE TESTING IS AVAILABLE AND VERY ACCESSIBLE.

And no, I'm not mad nor want attentions, but TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS MY UNDYING PASSION!!!

Ok, I'm sure that console users will just buy a PC, and re-buy this game, so that they can get on PTS to test things.

While I think I understand what the patch notes are saying, it isn't unreasonable for someone to not understand, and the PTS forum is the perfect place to come and ask or throw out questions, or theory crafting, for those with PTS access to attempt to answer.

I'm still confused why people think I didn't log in and test it...

and my assessment still stands...Unless you land a CC with the gap closer it'll be useless on anyone with any small amount of mobility.

IxSTALKERxI · May 2019

Xsorus wrote: »

and my assessment still stands...Unless you land a CC with the gap closer it'll be useless on anyone with any small amount of mobility.

Stampede does good damage and always crits... Just spam it... lol if someone just runs away they'll die to the damage from the gapcloser spam. Kinda like spamming gapcloser on an enemy that spams streak or is riding on a mount without fighting back.

ZarkingFrued · May 2019

zyk wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Someone on the combat team probably (finally) played a templar and realized Toppling Charge is a joke of a skill that's too slow to hit anything that's moving. Maybe this person was around at launch and remembered this same useless skill was once fast enough to hit everything and anything (and thus wasn't useless) and asked, "Why did we slow these down and implement the miserable auto-snare to fix the very problem we created by slowing them down in the first place?"

People with gap closers should have zero effect on my movement just for pressing a button. Period. And the people using gap-closer should have a reasonable expectation that those skills will hit their targets and be useful. It's a win-win, one of the few decisions ZOS has made where my support is 1000%.

I remember gap closers when they had no extra snare or immobilization. They were highly unreliable at times, so it will be interesting to see how useful they are in the upcoming update.

But I meant in terms of philosophy. Gap closers were pretty common before ZOS nerfed them last year. I don't play Templar, but other gap closers generally worked well previously. They were deemed to be too powerful because they did high damage and eliminated hard earned space between opponents. They are uncommon now because they had their damage reduced across the board. Now we seem to be going back to square one.

Personally, I prefer gameplay without gap closers. When they were common, it gave melee builds too great an advantage against ranged builds IMO. I think there is good balance between ranged and melee now. This will soon be upset when soft CCs are further nerfed and gap closers are buffed.

There is a good balance between ranged and melee? Ok.

technohic · May 2019

Its not like gap closers are great now. At least you will land damage and effects with the update.

BlackMadara · May 2019

Xsorus wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Elhan wrote: »

well, they also said:

"Drastically increased the speed of all of these abilities, and increased their auxiliary effects’ (damage, debuffs, etc.) range to ensure they always apply to their target."

did you test it before crying?

Yea that doesn't matter, it makes me think you did not actually use a gap closer before.

Unless you're instantly put next to the target, the target will always be outside your range when you arrive.

This right here sums up the everything wrong with this whole thread: PLEASE TEST IT OUT YOURSELF BEFORE COME HERE AND COMPLAIN, PLEASE DON'T BE A "THEORY CRAFTER" ON A TEST SERVER WHERE TESTING IS AVAILABLE AND VERY ACCESSIBLE.

And no, I'm not mad nor want attentions, but TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS MY UNDYING PASSION!!!

Ok, I'm sure that console users will just buy a PC, and re-buy this game, so that they can get on PTS to test things.

While I think I understand what the patch notes are saying, it isn't unreasonable for someone to not understand, and the PTS forum is the perfect place to come and ask or throw out questions, or theory crafting, for those with PTS access to attempt to answer.

I'm still confused why people think I didn't log in and test it...

and my assessment still stands...Unless you land a CC with the gap closer it'll be useless on anyone with any small amount of mobility.

Does the damage still go through? If it does, just use it again. Any instance where one has increased movement will drain more resources than a gap closer, unless one has stacked full movement speed and reach near cap without sprinting.

DeadlyRecluse · May 2019

I'm actually psyched for the gap closer changes.

The snare was dumb--if they increase the "range" of the impact/effect of the gap closer, it'll still be useful. Speeding the charges up will be great, especially for the clunkier charges. And removing the minimum range makes it much more feasible to use a gap closer as your only CC (templar charge, shield charge, etc.)

jaws343 · May 2019

There is a part of me that wants to make a Crit Rush spammable build, using Automaton and Sword Singer. Throw carve on there for a dot.