Stam sorcs seriously need some changes

LaurenIsAwkward · April 2019

Currently there are only a few skills stam sorcs have that are remotely useful:

Bound Armaments
Critical Surge
Dark Deal
Hurricane
Streak

That's it. Only one stam morph in the entire class. It's mobility is great with streak but it lacks a lot of identity that the other classes have because of the fact that there are so few options with regards as to what skills you are have available to use, and the entire class crutches heavily on the weapon skills. It doesn't have a skill that blows up after a few seconds or an execute, just a little DoT that is mostly used as an armour buff. Stam sorcs needing some TLC is especially noticeable now that implosion has been removed from the game, and it's a little disappointing that the class has basically received no love in the 5.0 PTS.

Olupajmibanan · April 2019

There are plenty of unused sorc skills which could be turned into some nice stamina ability:
- Crystal Blast
- Daedric Tomb
- Overload can be improved if major rework is done, and this could help stamsorcs a loooot. Current Overload is garbage.
- Damn, even bound armaments need to be reworked. Don't get me wrong, they are good, but they don't add anything to help keep class identity. It's just a passive bonus with no active component (like really, is anyone using the active component of BA?)
- an unpopular idea but certain pet morphs are nice adepts to be a stamina tool:
Summon Twilight Tormentor
Summon: Clanfear
Summon: Charged Storm Attronach

MyKillv2.0 · April 2019

I watched ESO Live the other night and saw both Combat Team Members squirm when someone asked about orginal four classes getting a stamina overhaul to match Warden/Necro set up. The facial expression they gave was about the same as when someone asks anyone about spell crafting. So my guess is what you will see an OG class overhaul that helps balance out stam/mag DPS about the same time as you see Spell Crafting introduced.

Prutton · April 2019

The developers already said they won't be changing old classes now. They said they are aware of people's need for stamina skills and that people like the concept from Warden and Necros, having one tree for dps, another for healing and a third onde for tanking. However, they don't have time to do it now and will focus on standardization of skills.

The funny thing is that they found time to change nightblades, one of the stamina classes with the most identity, but didn't care about the ones that needed the most.

universal_wrath · April 2019

Streak, dark deal and crit surge are mostly pvp skills. Crit surge is great in pvw as well in solo and achievment runs. But mostly, only hurricaine and armament are used in pve. 4-5 out of 15 passives being used by stam sorcs unless they use pets, then 7 out of 15 passives. This is wrong, please fix it.

At this point i don't mind if ZOS don't give us more class skill(spammable), i just hope the could rework tge passives a bit.

iCaliban · April 2019

Unpopular opinion, but i think stam sorc has fantastic identity. You have surge for strong self healing via magic while in battle, hurricane to proc it, dark deal for sustain/healing, streak is used quite often. Its a battlemage and fits that identity.

Jhalin · April 2019

Not reworking the vastly unused and underpowered abilities Sorcs have to be useful for stamina is plain lazy on ZOS’s part. My stamsorc sits unleveled because there is no sense of progression by leveling the class lines. All the usable abilities for stamsorc are so far down the lines it’s a pain to level them because you will end up with a bar full of mag skills and some weapon abilities. It barely feels like a sorc

At the very least, I think we’d all be better off letting every damaging class ability (on every class) scale off whatever stats are higher. You’d still have to focus into mag or stam gear, and allocate CP intelligently for what damage type your skills do, but at least at baseline they won’t be so absurdly useless for stamina build

Sarousse · April 2019

I still don't get why we don't get at least a stamina ultimate. And why they ONCE AGAIN don't communicate at all on the stam sorcs.

GeorgeBlack · April 2019

iCaliban wrote: »

Unpopular opinion, but i think stam sorc has fantastic identity. You have surge for strong self healing via magic while in battle, hurricane to proc it, dark deal for sustain/healing, streak is used quite often. Its a battlemage and fits that identity.

I agree. I wish my stamDK had:
Slottable passives
Active buffs with so many stats
Passive abilities.
Elemental identity themed skills.

and use weapon skills for combat.
However my stamDK is more a SnBKnight

Somnilux · April 2019

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6003352/#Comment_6003352

I posted my thoughts on what to do about stam sorcs here, though it didn't get any actual responses or attention.

Chilly-McFreeze · April 2019

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Unpopular opinion, but i think stam sorc has fantastic identity. You have surge for strong self healing via magic while in battle, hurricane to proc it, dark deal for sustain/healing, streak is used quite often. Its a battlemage and fits that identity.

I agree. I wish my stamDK had:
Slottable passives
Active buffs with so many stats
Passive abilities.
Elemental identity themed skills.

and use weapon skills for combat.
However my stamDK is more a SnBKnight

Slottable passives - yey, because everyone wants dead weight on their skill bar, right? Tho you kinda get that with the coming changes

Active buffs - like you don't have any buffs at all. Only thing I can get from that is coming from the point above

Passive abilities - yey, because everyone wants dead weight.. oh weight, isn't that the same as #1? Or do you mean real passives? Then yep, stamDk isn't that great in the passive departement either but if you think stamsorcs have many great passives I don't know what to tell you. Half of them aren't even worth spending points.

Elemental identity themed skills - like poison on claw and breath and in the passives?

and use weapon skills for combat - I think you're just adding things for the sake of adding things. No value in this part.

I also think you overestimate what sorcs have to offer. Honestly, DK and Sorcs sit in the same boat in this one. No reason to point the finger at stamsorcs, especially not when we've got at least a few more active damage skills and Ultimates on DK compared to Sorcs.

Vapirko · April 2019

I mean they said this patch was their big class change patch, so that’s it folks. Don’t expect anything else for the foreseeable future. Next is armor and weapon lines and then passives at some point. Stam sorc, stamina Templar, and to some extents stamina DK and Mag NB. All these classes may be waiting indefinitely for real help. We can hope that when passives get adjusted that they’ll see some help, but that could be 6 months to a year. Maybe more?

Elwendryll · April 2019

I need to parse with the new wrecking blow to see if it's a buff or a nerf...

I can live without a class spammable, but don't nerf the ones from the weapon lines. That's a direct damage not a dot, it shouldn't be nerfed.

What I'd like to be implemented that sounds simple.

Make clannfear scale off higher ressource for the damage component.
Make negate and morph actually proc the Blood Magic Passive.

And what I dream about.
Stamina Overload with cleave damage on light attacks.

Chilly-McFreeze · April 2019

Elwendryll wrote: »

I need to parse with the new wrecking blow to see if it's a buff or a nerf...

You don't need a parse for PvP. It's a straight nerf since you won't get off half a dozend swings there.
2h PvE meta uses crushing weapon anyway.

Elwendryll · April 2019

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

You don't need a parse for PvP. It's a straight nerf since you won't get off half a dozend swings there.
2h PvE meta uses crushing weapon anyway.

I use it for trials in pve. I don't use this ability in pvp.
I will compare with crushing weapons, but as of today, WB is more adequate for me, I don't care about what other play, but only the results I get and how comfortable I am with my rotation. I need to test because the change they made was specifically aimed at making it easier to chain this ability, and since this is my spammable, it may result in an higher dps.

crazywolfpusher · April 2019

Hybrid end game builds would be amazing, just make everything scale from max resource pools. Make penetration only one stat that affect both spell and physical.
This way there will be no need for new stamina morphs. Lot of different new builds. Refresh the meta.

Chilly-McFreeze · April 2019

Elwendryll wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

You don't need a parse for PvP. It's a straight nerf since you won't get off half a dozend swings there.
2h PvE meta uses crushing weapon anyway.

I use it for trials in pve. I don't use this ability in pvp.
I will compare with crushing weapons, but as of today, WB is more adequate for me, I don't care about what other play, but only the results I get and how comfortable I am with my rotation. I need to test because the change they made was specifically aimed at making it easier to chain this ability, and since this is my spammable, it may result in an higher dps.

Oh don't get me wrong. I dislike CW just like everybody else but if they have to turn Uppercut into a PvE spam, they should have gone for Wrecking Blow and left Dizzying Swing alone for it's PvP purpose. 6% dps increase might (!) be nice for PvE but 14% burst damage loss breaks it for PvP.
All in all just another missed chance.

Mygalomorpea · April 2019

I am just saddened that it was totally untouched. Not even the global cast time change affected Dark Deal.

As far as identity goes, when you play one you get a feel to it, but I got into a group a few weeks back and the CP1100 healer that I have run many dungeons and trials with said "is stam sorcs thing?"... There is nothing to identify that someone is playing a stam sorc other than Hurricane, which they don't see if they are playing on low graphics or not specifically paying attention to the effects.

The atronach does scale to both stamina and magicka and is comparable with balista in longer PvE fights... But people just assume a mag sorc instead.

A stamplar you see using the Jabs, a stamdk has the poison breath, a NB has the bow proc and surprise attack animations, stamden has the beetles. Necro has the skellies and a unique colour to differentiate it from mag necro...

The stam sorc... Can only be spotted by other stam sorcs, there is no unique and obvious ability that someone can say "that is a stam sorc"

crazywolfpusher · April 2019

Mygalomorpea wrote: »

There is nothing to identify that someone is playing a stam sorc other than Hurricane, which they don't see if they are playing on low graphics or not specifically paying attention to the effects.

Hurricane is boring, does almost little to no damage.
Major Resolve and Major Ward, should be tied to bound armaments, make more sense since is suppose to be some kind of armor.

Dont forget how annoying the visual effect is.

Mygalomorpea wrote: »

The atronach does scale to both stamina and magicka and is comparable with balista in longer PvE fights... But people just assume a mag sorc instead.

Atronach does shock damage, and shock damage require you to have spell penetration, right? and stamina sorc doesnt have it.

Ladislao · April 2019

GreatWhite wrote: »

Currently there are only a few skills stam sorcs have that are remotely useful:

Bound Armaments
Critical Surge
Dark Deal
Hurricane
Streak

That's it. Only one stam morph in the entire class. It's mobility is great with streak but it lacks a lot of identity that the other classes have because of the fact that there are so few options with regards as to what skills you are have available to use, and the entire class crutches heavily on the weapon skills. It doesn't have a skill that blows up after a few seconds or an execute, just a little DoT that is mostly used as an armour buff. Stam sorcs needing some TLC is especially noticeable now that implosion has been removed from the game, and it's a little disappointing that the class has basically received no love in the 5.0 PTS.

You forgot about Negate Magic, Encase, Greater Storm Atronach and Daedric Prey. So there are at least nine abilities that end-game stamsorcs actively use, depends on content. Do you still think they lack identity? Or do you think that identity lies solely in the presence of execute, spammable and ability with delayed damage?

Speaking about Implosion, instead of random execute with a low threshold, I received an approximately similar in power passive with constant effect. This is almost permanent Minor Berserk buff. You can argue with the fact that it was a buff, but it was definitely not a nerf.

Maybe before asking for love for the class, should you love it yourself?

Elwendryll wrote: »

Make negate and morph actually proc the Blood Magic Passive.

Negate Magic proc Blood Magic every time when the effect of silence is applied on the player enemy. Maybe a little inconsistent, but it works. There is a thread about it.

Massive_Stain · April 2019

I am completely satisfied with stamsorc and it's PvE identity. I'm on console primarily, but have recently decided to move to PC. I did a group test recently on console with my pve storc and I'm sitting at 70k DPS. That's fine by me for all content.

Anethum · April 2019

crazywolfpusher wrote: »

Atronach does shock damage, and shock damage require you to have spell penetration, right? and stamina sorc doesnt have it.

yeah, they could simply make another morf to do physical damage with the same basement as Hurricane does. Wind, aoe component, at least some usage of 2 passives from pet skilline. Insead of hit with a lightning solo target, he can attack him with many small stones like Lord Warden with channeling something in Imperial City Prison. Not the best way but at least something...

Chilly-McFreeze · April 2019

Massive_Stain wrote: »

I am completely satisfied with stamsorc and it's PvE identity. I'm on console primarily, but have recently decided to move to PC. I did a group test recently on console with my pve storc and I'm sitting at 70k DPS. That's fine by me for all content.

You do realize that identity isn't the same as a nice dps parse, right?

Elwendryll · April 2019

Ladislao wrote: »

Negate Magic proc Blood Magic every time when the effect of silence is applied on the player enemy. Maybe a little inconsistent, but it works. There is a thread about it.

Thanks, I didn't see this thread, I recently looked for it, but only in bug report and PTS section. I still consider that something must be changed. Either the passive description or the ultimate interaction with it. This shouldn't be inconsistent like that. Rune prison and encase are working on overland mobs despite not doing damage, negate is a stun, and it does not heal.

I did not test it in pvp, and I'd like to find a use for this ultimate in pve.

Prutton · April 2019

iCaliban wrote: »

Unpopular opinion, but i think stam sorc has fantastic identity. You have surge for strong self healing via magic while in battle, hurricane to proc it, dark deal for sustain/healing, streak is used quite often. Its a battlemage and fits that identity.

Most of those skills are only used in PVP, and even there, stamina sorcerers are weaker than any other stamina class. Let's talk about PVE:
- Nightblades: Surprise Attack (spammable), Killer's Blade (execute), Assassin's Will (burst), Leeching Strikes (sustain), Incapacitating Strike (ultimate)
- Wardens: Cutting Dive(spammable), Subterranean Assault (burst), Bull Netch (sustain), Wild Guardian (ultimate)
- Templars: Bitting Jabs (spammable), Power of the Light (burst), Restoring Focus (sustain), Blazing Spear (aoe)
- Sorcerers: Hurricane (aoe)

Critical Surge is not used when healers are around, since high end players use weapon power potion instead. Most skills stamina sorcerers use are also available to other classes, but they don't use because it is too weak compared to what they have in their kit.

It is just obvious that stamina sorcerers want something better than "using the skills that are too weak for other classes to use".

Chilly-McFreeze · April 2019

Prutton wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Unpopular opinion, but i think stam sorc has fantastic identity. You have surge for strong self healing via magic while in battle, hurricane to proc it, dark deal for sustain/healing, streak is used quite often. Its a battlemage and fits that identity.

Most of those skills are only used in PVP, and even there, stamina sorcerers are weaker than any other stamina class. Let's talk about PVE:
- Nightblades: Surprise Attack (spammable), Killer's Blade (execute), Assassin's Will (burst), Leeching Strikes (sustain), Incapacitating Strike (ultimate)
- Wardens: Cutting Dive(spammable), Subterranean Assault (burst), Bull Netch (sustain), Wild Guardian (ultimate)
- Templars: Bitting Jabs (spammable), Power of the Light (burst), Restoring Focus (sustain), Blazing Spear (aoe)
- Sorcerers: Hurricane (aoe)

Critical Surge is not used when healers are around, since high end players use weapon power potion instead. Most skills stamina sorcerers use are also available to other classes, but they don't use because it is too weak compared to what they have in their kit.

It is just obvious that stamina sorcerers want something better than "using the skills that are too weak for other classes to use".

I can definitely agree on the bolded,
but haven't you forgotten our double slotted passive: Bound Armaments?
And TBF also Atronach, which sadly still does lightning damage.
So it's a bit more than "just Hurricane", but not much. Still generic weapon & guild skills mostly.

And yes, some tank builds use roots and negate and some double bow builds cheese parses with Prey and Spider synergy. But is that really where we should get our designated "classines" from? By cheesing a synergy with a magicka skill that doesn't even do physical dmg, just like stamDKs now can cheese their stats with Molten Whip? That's not good class design, if you ask me.

Nerftheforums · April 2019

What's a stamsorc?
Is that magicka sorc kind of builds used to gather materials quicker?

martijnlv40 · April 2019

What I would love to see is them adding third morphs. Magsorc is okay as it is, but taking away haunting/daedric curse or crystal frags would damage them immensely. Though I agree stamsorc needs (a lot) more, taking away from the magsorc isn't the way to go in my opinion.

Thraben · April 2019

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Massive_Stain wrote: »

I am completely satisfied with stamsorc and it's PvE identity. I'm on console primarily, but have recently decided to move to PC. I did a group test recently on console with my pve storc and I'm sitting at 70k DPS. That's fine by me for all content.

You do realize that identity isn't the same as a nice dps parse, right?

How could he realize if even the Devs don`t

?

Qbiken · April 2019

GreatWhite wrote: »

Currently there are only a few skills stam sorcs have that are remotely useful:

Bound Armaments
Critical Surge
Dark Deal
Hurricane
Streak

That's it. Only one stam morph in the entire class. It's mobility is great with streak but it lacks a lot of identity that the other classes have because of the fact that there are so few options with regards as to what skills you are have available to use, and the entire class crutches heavily on the weapon skills. It doesn't have a skill that blows up after a few seconds or an execute, just a little DoT that is mostly used as an armour buff. Stam sorcs needing some TLC is especially noticeable now that implosion has been removed from the game, and it's a little disappointing that the class has basically received no love in the 5.0 PTS.

For me, stamsorc identity lies within the synergy between all those skills you mentioned, and that identity is a pretty strong one. Especially in PvP scenarios. In my opinion, only thing I can see stamsorc getting is a physical damage version of overload (wind atronach would be cool tho). Otherwise I don´t think stamsorc need much more. They´re in a good spot and I can lowkey don´t understand why people feel the class needs much more improvements.

Morgul667 · April 2019

Qbiken wrote: »

GreatWhite wrote: »

Currently there are only a few skills stam sorcs have that are remotely useful:

Bound Armaments
Critical Surge
Dark Deal
Hurricane
Streak

That's it. Only one stam morph in the entire class. It's mobility is great with streak but it lacks a lot of identity that the other classes have because of the fact that there are so few options with regards as to what skills you are have available to use, and the entire class crutches heavily on the weapon skills. It doesn't have a skill that blows up after a few seconds or an execute, just a little DoT that is mostly used as an armour buff. Stam sorcs needing some TLC is especially noticeable now that implosion has been removed from the game, and it's a little disappointing that the class has basically received no love in the 5.0 PTS.

For me, stamsorc identity lies within the synergy between all those skills you mentioned, and that identity is a pretty strong one. Especially in PvP scenarios. In my opinion, only thing I can see stamsorc getting is a physical damage version of overload (wind atronach would be cool tho). Otherwise I don´t think stamsorc need much more. They´re in a good spot and I can lowkey don´t understand why people feel the class needs much more improvements.

It isnt fun to play and feels like a noclass