The new DK whip change with Seething Fury passive has a major flaw

chetter_hummin · April 2019

They build whip so to use other spamable instead. Ardent flame spamable. Not saying your observation is not right, there will always be a nice combination to choose. Even going with whip as spamable and get only 1 whip proc per rota is a nice change compared to live but I'm sure there will be cool and interesting options.

Savos_Saren · April 2019

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

chetter_hummin wrote: »

I like the change. Will make mag dk rota unique and interesting and with lot of possibilities as spamable that can all work very nice depending of nature of fight. Basically u can go full sustain (unrelenting grip) or full damage (empowering chains) or in between (engulfing).

Really like the change and hope they will keep it like that!

zos didnt like that a dot was being used as a spammable, what do you think they are going to do about a gap closer/pull being used as a spammable.

It's only spammable because the target dummy cannot be pulled. (It's the same with a world boss.) HOWEVER, this parse cannot be done with normal enemies or in PVP.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

chetter_hummin wrote: »

I like the change. Will make mag dk rota unique and interesting and with lot of possibilities as spamable that can all work very nice depending of nature of fight. Basically u can go full sustain (unrelenting grip) or full damage (empowering chains) or in between (engulfing).

Really like the change and hope they will keep it like that!

zos didnt like that a dot was being used as a spammable, what do you think they are going to do about a gap closer/pull being used as a spammable.

It's only spammable because the target dummy cannot be pulled. (It's the same with a world boss.) HOWEVER, this parse cannot be done with normal enemies or in PVP.

all(most) boss mobs cant be pulled and most elite mobs cant either. that is really the only time it matters. not sure what is making you mention world bosses. if this change goes live, expect changes to chains. the easiest change to make, would be to make the only way you could build seething fury stacks, is using whip. make the stacks longer, like 10 seconds but have a lower spell damage amount, like half of what it is now then double the amount it can stack too, still giving the same amount at the end, rewards using whip over lash but doesnt lead to the sort of thing we are seeing right now.

hedna123b14_ESO · April 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

chetter_hummin wrote: »

I like the change. Will make mag dk rota unique and interesting and with lot of possibilities as spamable that can all work very nice depending of nature of fight. Basically u can go full sustain (unrelenting grip) or full damage (empowering chains) or in between (engulfing).

Really like the change and hope they will keep it like that!

zos didnt like that a dot was being used as a spammable, what do you think they are going to do about a gap closer/pull being used as a spammable.

It's only spammable because the target dummy cannot be pulled. (It's the same with a world boss.) HOWEVER, this parse cannot be done with normal enemies or in PVP.

All bosses cant be pulled and if for some reason you need to ST pullable adds you just hit the whip button instead.

Corpier · April 2019

It would actually be cool and make sense if stamDK had an Earthenheart spammable. I mean, yeah, both the stam regen passive Helping Hands and the Minor Brutality buff come from using those skills.

Now this might sound crazy, but hear me out:
Dragonknights are said to be adventures who use Akaviri martial arts. Martial. Arts. Hand-to-hand combat specialists.
DKs have an ability called Stonefist (which is one of their few ranged abilities for whatever bs reason), and both morphs are some of these least used in DK's kit.

Martial. Arts.
Stone. Fist.

Make one morph of the skill a relevant stamina spammable that acts as a melee punch with the DK having stone on their fist like brass knuckles.

Pr0Skygon · April 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

chetter_hummin wrote: »

I like the change. Will make mag dk rota unique and interesting and with lot of possibilities as spamable that can all work very nice depending of nature of fight. Basically u can go full sustain (unrelenting grip) or full damage (empowering chains) or in between (engulfing).

Really like the change and hope they will keep it like that!

zos didnt like that a dot was being used as a spammable, what do you think they are going to do about a gap closer/pull being used as a spammable.

It's only spammable because the target dummy cannot be pulled. (It's the same with a world boss.) HOWEVER, this parse cannot be done with normal enemies or in PVP.

Mate what are you even saying??? We do not need dps parse for "normal enemies", and especially in PvP, the only time that dps parse matter is in boss dps. What timeline are you living in where we need dps parse in PvP????? I'm concerned.

Pr0Skygon · April 2019

Corpier wrote: »

It would actually be cool and make sense if stamDK had an Earthenheart spammable. I mean, yeah, both the stam regen passive Helping Hands and the Minor Brutality buff come from using those skills.

Now this might sound crazy, but hear me out:
Dragonknights are said to be adventures who use Akaviri martial arts. Martial. Arts. Hand-to-hand combat specialists.
DKs have an ability called Stonefist (which is one of their few ranged abilities for whatever bs reason).

Martial. Arts.
Stone. Fist.

Make one morph of the skill a relevant stamina spammable that acts as a melee punch with the DK having stone on their fist like brass knuckles.

I've tried to proposed this idea for years now, and it's still having the same fate as stam whip

Pr0Skygon · April 2019

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

chetter_hummin wrote: »

I like the change. Will make mag dk rota unique and interesting and with lot of possibilities as spamable that can all work very nice depending of nature of fight. Basically u can go full sustain (unrelenting grip) or full damage (empowering chains) or in between (engulfing).

Really like the change and hope they will keep it like that!

zos didnt like that a dot was being used as a spammable, what do you think they are going to do about a gap closer/pull being used as a spammable.

It's only spammable because the target dummy cannot be pulled. (It's the same with a world boss.) HOWEVER, this parse cannot be done with normal enemies or in PVP.

all(most) boss mobs cant be pulled and most elite mobs cant either. that is really the only time it matters. not sure what is making you mention world bosses. if this change goes live, expect changes to chains. the easiest change to make, would be to make the only way you could build seething fury stacks, is using whip. make the stacks longer, like 10 seconds but have a lower spell damage amount, like half of what it is now then double the amount it can stack too, still giving the same amount at the end, rewards using whip over lash but doesnt lead to the sort of thing we are seeing right now.

I really like this idea. If you're wanna make Molten Whip a relevant skill and can replace Power Lash, then let ppl actually use Molten Whip by encourage them to use it frequently.

I do however, feel like the seething fury passive would still be a perfect passive skill to replace the placeholder skill "Searing Heat", and I really hope this change will happen + changes to Molten Whip.

Savos_Saren · April 2019

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

chetter_hummin wrote: »

I like the change. Will make mag dk rota unique and interesting and with lot of possibilities as spamable that can all work very nice depending of nature of fight. Basically u can go full sustain (unrelenting grip) or full damage (empowering chains) or in between (engulfing).

Really like the change and hope they will keep it like that!

zos didnt like that a dot was being used as a spammable, what do you think they are going to do about a gap closer/pull being used as a spammable.

It's only spammable because the target dummy cannot be pulled. (It's the same with a world boss.) HOWEVER, this parse cannot be done with normal enemies or in PVP.

Mate what are you even saying??? We do not need dps parse for "normal enemies", and especially in PvP, the only time that dps parse matter is in boss dps. What timeline are you living in where we need dps parse in PvP????? I'm concerned.

@Pr0Skygon
I'm concerned with PVP. It's not broken if you're using Empowering Chains (the self-pull version). I don't want to see this crying that the new whip is "OP" to ruin something good. And calm down your overly-dramatic angst.

ChunkyCat · April 2019

SO MUCH PASSION.

Arcanasx · April 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

SO MUCH PASSION.

You could say its getting a little chunky in here.

Zekka · April 2019

I don't think ZOS wanted stamDKs to make use of it, it seems to be an attempt at buffing magDKs PvE dps and only them to the level of other (stamina) melee classes so groups can justify giving melee slots to them.

hedna123b14_ESO · April 2019

Zekka wrote: »

I don't think ZOS wanted stamDKs to make use of it, it seems to be an attempt at buffing magDKs PvE dps and only them to the level of other (stamina) melee classes so groups can justify giving melee slots to them.

Then why would it say:" increase spell AND weapon damage"?

Zekka · April 2019

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Then why would it say:" increase spell AND weapon damage"?

Because for some reason the current live version of Molten Whip does the same?

hedna123b14_ESO · April 2019

Zekka wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Then why would it say:" increase spell AND weapon damage"?

Because for some reason the current live version of Molten Whip does the same?

The change was intended for both magicka and stamdks. This was confirmed by the class reps...

MassTerror23 · April 2019

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Huh, on Stam DK I got only 42k dps with Chains as spammable .

Easy fix for chains, remove cost reduction when target is not pulled.

The chains is for magdk not stam. I hit 49k with a stamdk with breathe as spammable and whip on both bars

MassTerror23 · April 2019

Zekka wrote: »

I don't think ZOS wanted stamDKs to make use of it, it seems to be an attempt at buffing magDKs PvE dps and only them to the level of other (stamina) melee classes so groups can justify giving melee slots to them.

True but I’ve tested using whip for the passive on my Stam DK and I hit 49k consistently and 50k once. Magdk’s I doubt will ever take a stam spot

Ragnarock41 · April 2019

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Zekka wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Then why would it say:" increase spell AND weapon damage"?

Because for some reason the current live version of Molten Whip does the same?

The change was intended for both magicka and stamdks. This was confirmed by the class reps...

Like how they ''confirmed'' claws being a spammable was intended?

hedna123b14_ESO · April 2019

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Zekka wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Then why would it say:" increase spell AND weapon damage"?

Because for some reason the current live version of Molten Whip does the same?

The change was intended for both magicka and stamdks. This was confirmed by the class reps...

Like how they ''confirmed'' claws being a spammable was intended?

I mean im just letting you know that weapon damage isnt there by accident

Ragnarock41 · April 2019

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Zekka wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Then why would it say:" increase spell AND weapon damage"?

Because for some reason the current live version of Molten Whip does the same?

The change was intended for both magicka and stamdks. This was confirmed by the class reps...

Like how they ''confirmed'' claws being a spammable was intended?

I mean im just letting you know that weapon damage isnt there by accident

Its not a very well thought change either. Probably they did things this way because they didn't want to buff stamDK in PvP, and they didn't plan to pay much attention to stamsorc-stamDK anyways, since necromancer is their main focus right now obviously.

I guess I'm also just letting you know that the combat team doesn't have a long term plan, its very obvious they are going for more of a step by step approach, like building a lego bridge but instead of building one from nothing they're reassembling an existing thing, which is well, obviously confusing.

We have already discussed this in another thread so no point in repeating our words but my main point is, don't grow attached to anything in this game. I thought heavy attacking with molten armaments was stamDKs identity, then claws as stamDK identity, now its friggen noxious breath and I've just stopped assuming things at this point.

hedna123b14_ESO · April 2019

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Zekka wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Then why would it say:" increase spell AND weapon damage"?

Because for some reason the current live version of Molten Whip does the same?

The change was intended for both magicka and stamdks. This was confirmed by the class reps...

Like how they ''confirmed'' claws being a spammable was intended?

I mean im just letting you know that weapon damage isnt there by accident

Its not a very well thought change either. Probably they did things this way because they didn't want to buff stamDK in PvP, and they didn't plan to pay much attention to stamsorc-stamDK anyways, since necromancer is their main focus right now obviously.

I guess I'm also just letting you know that the combat team doesn't have a long term plan, its very obvious they are going for more of a step by step approach, like building a lego bridge but instead of building one from nothing they're reassembling an existing thing, which is well, obviously confusing.

We have already discussed this in another thread so no point in repeating our words but my main point is, don't grow attached to anything in this game. I thought heavy attacking with molten armaments was stamDKs identity, then claws as stamDK identity, now its friggen noxious breath and I've just stopped assuming things at this point.

Lol you dont need to let me know that ive been playing since beta and i see it every DLC lol...Also i like the fact that things change every patch, what i dont like is when they dont change....like the stamblade staying top dps for 2 years

vesselwiththepestle · April 2019

During EU meltdown yesterday I went NA and started a MagDK. My second MagDK and my fourth DK overall. Without CP it felt different, but I realized that Sone Fist is actually a nice skill when you have now gear, no cp and a white level 1 inferno staff.

Stone Fist... Now I realize, that Venom Skull from Necro is very similar to Stone Fist. Stone Fist... It's a giant fist. Stone. Fist. Why doesn't it do physical damage? Get rid of the stun. Or just get rid of it in a stamina morph. The one thing it got going for it was its longer duration than Fossilize, but that will be nerfed now. Stam morph would be Stone Giant, I guess.

Pr0Skygon · April 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

SO MUCH PASSION.

I'M TRYING MY VERY BEST TO PASS ON MY UNDYING PASSION!!!!!

Pr0Skygon · April 2019

MassTerror23 wrote: »

Zekka wrote: »

I don't think ZOS wanted stamDKs to make use of it, it seems to be an attempt at buffing magDKs PvE dps and only them to the level of other (stamina) melee classes so groups can justify giving melee slots to them.

True but I’ve tested using whip for the passive on my Stam DK and I hit 49k consistently and 50k once. Magdk’s I doubt will ever take a stam spot

Bragging right!!!

Pr0Skygon · April 2019

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Zekka wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Then why would it say:" increase spell AND weapon damage"?

Because for some reason the current live version of Molten Whip does the same?

The change was intended for both magicka and stamdks. This was confirmed by the class reps...

Like how they ''confirmed'' claws being a spammable was intended?

I mean im just letting you know that weapon damage isnt there by accident

We have already discussed this in another thread so no point in repeating our words but my main point is, don't grow attached to anything in this game. I thought heavy attacking with molten armaments was stamDKs identity, then claws as stamDK identity, now its friggen noxious breath and I've just stopped assuming things at this point.

This part right here broke my heart. As a DK main, and stamDK enthusiast, I'm deeply sadden that I can't deny this fact. Seeing how well designed Warden (especially stamden) and Necro (also especially stamcro), I'm both mad and disappointed at how ZOS treated us stamDK and stamsorc (I don't personally play stamsorc, but I can feel your pain, stamsorc bros and sis).

GeorgeBlack · April 2019

@Masel

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Zekka wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Then why would it say:" increase spell AND weapon damage"?

Because for some reason the current live version of Molten Whip does the same?

The change was intended for both magicka and stamdks. This was confirmed by the class reps...

Like how they ''confirmed'' claws being a spammable was intended?

I mean im just letting you know that weapon damage isnt there by accident

We have already discussed this in another thread so no point in repeating our words but my main point is, don't grow attached to anything in this game. I thought heavy attacking with molten armaments was stamDKs identity, then claws as stamDK identity, now its friggen noxious breath and I've just stopped assuming things at this point.

This part right here broke my heart. As a DK main, and stamDK enthusiast, I'm deeply sadden that I can't deny this fact. Seeing how well designed Warden (especially stamden) and Necro (also especially stamcro), I'm both mad and disappointed at how ZOS treated us stamDK and stamsorc (I don't personally play stamsorc, but I can feel your pain, stamsorc bros and sis).

I for one dont feel the pain of stamSorc.
Look at their passives, the bonus the slottables give, their actives, their mobility, their lifestealing capacities, their easy AoE/bleed playstyle. They can slot any weapon they want and be more effective than DK except for dueling.

I just dont see it.

Pr0Skygon · April 2019

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

@Masel

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Zekka wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Then why would it say:" increase spell AND weapon damage"?

Because for some reason the current live version of Molten Whip does the same?

The change was intended for both magicka and stamdks. This was confirmed by the class reps...

Like how they ''confirmed'' claws being a spammable was intended?

I mean im just letting you know that weapon damage isnt there by accident

We have already discussed this in another thread so no point in repeating our words but my main point is, don't grow attached to anything in this game. I thought heavy attacking with molten armaments was stamDKs identity, then claws as stamDK identity, now its friggen noxious breath and I've just stopped assuming things at this point.

This part right here broke my heart. As a DK main, and stamDK enthusiast, I'm deeply sadden that I can't deny this fact. Seeing how well designed Warden (especially stamden) and Necro (also especially stamcro), I'm both mad and disappointed at how ZOS treated us stamDK and stamsorc (I don't personally play stamsorc, but I can feel your pain, stamsorc bros and sis).

I for one dont feel the pain of stamSorc.
Look at their passives, the bonus the slottables give, their actives, their mobility, their lifestealing capacities, their easy AoE/bleed playstyle. They can slot any weapon they want and be more effective than DK except for dueling.

I just dont see it.

ssshh, this is a discussion for another time. Let's just focus on DK and more specifically, the Seething Fury passive for now