The new DK whip change with Seething Fury passive has a major flaw

Pr0Skygon

Let's cut to the chase: You can slot this "Spammable" skill, but without using it, ever!

Yes, we found out about this on stamDK, in which we just slot Molten Whip on front bar to gain the Seething Fury passive and maintain it more than 80% of the time. IMO, giving stamDK a dynamic passive to keep up like this is very interesting, but Molten Whip is just a very strange choice to put this passive on.

But then I realized something: We can do this same *** with magDK, and just use Elemental Weapon as a spammable instead.



Ok, but is it really a good idea to slot Whip for its passive alone and use Ele Wep instead? Not really, especially in longer fight (which is a lot). In execute phase you can easily stack 3x Seething Fury by spamming 3 times Flame Of Oblivion then Whip for tons of damage. In this case, you will easily outdamage the Ele Wep setup. But then again, the fact that we can just slot Whip and use something else entirely is just... wrong.

Last week I'm still very 50/50 on whether or not we should give this passive to a spammable skill, but now I'm convinced that this is a very ill-advice idea. It's an insult to the design of every single DK dps by slotting our most iconic skill just as a placeholder.

My suggestion for this is simple: Either move this passive to Molten Weapon (a very underused skill) or just move it to Searing Heat, a very pointless passive in the Ardent Flame skill line that most players don't even know about its existence.

And please, I know this is a dead meme already, but beating a dead horse is my passion, so dare I say this again: PLEASE JUST CHANGE MOLTEN WHIP INTO A STAM SKILL AND DEAL PHYSICAL DAMAGE. THE ADDED EFFECT CAN BE MINOR LIKE "REDUCED COST" OR "DEAL SLIGHTLY MORE DAMAGE". PLEASE!!! LET ME BACKFLIP AND WHIP MY ENEMIES ON MY STAMDK!!!!!

Also, writing in all caps is my other passion.

MartiniDaniels

Just make molten whip scale from largest resource/damage type. Idk why ZOS added double scaling for ton of abilities in U22 but not for molten whip where it's most direly needed.

Chilly-McFreeze

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Just make molten whip scale from largest resource/damage type. Idk why ZOS added double scaling for ton of abilities in U22 but not for molten whip where it's most direly needed.

The added double scaling doesn't include changes to damage types so I doubt they would make exceptions on this one. Believe me, you don't want your spam scaling on stam but costing mag and dealing flame damage. A real stam whip would be the better option.

Zacuel

YOUR PASSION INSPIRES MY PASSION!!!

FIX DK!!! AND FOR ONCE FIX IT RIGHT!!!

JinMori

Why is it a problem if you can slot something else? Molten whip still does the most damage, so if you want to go ranged you can just use ele weapons, see no problem there.

Also, make molten whip scale like burning light, and problem solved for stamina.

And also the drain is considerably higher with ele weapon.

MartiniDaniels

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Just make molten whip scale from largest resource/damage type. Idk why ZOS added double scaling for ton of abilities in U22 but not for molten whip where it's most direly needed.

The added double scaling doesn't include changes to damage types so I doubt they would make exceptions on this one. Believe me, you don't want your spam scaling on stam but costing mag and dealing flame damage. A real stam whip would be the better option.

I'm looking at flames of oblivion on stambuilds, and it's pretty solid.
Of course real stam whip will be better, but without new molten whip magDK dps will be non-existent so stamwhip is not an option while seething fury dwells in this morph. And moving it to passives will make DK a damn OP with free +375 to base SD/WD.

juhislihis19

This has to be the very first skill to be slotted but never ever to be used..? Well Temporal Guard as second ultimate for Minor Protection is one. But on ability bar?

vesselwiththepestle

juhislihis19 wrote: »

This has to be the very first skill to be slotted but never ever to be used..? Well Temporal Guard as second ultimate for Minor Protection is one. But on ability bar?

Bound Aegis, Bird of Prey, Expert Hunter, Inner Light, and Aedric Spear ability on Stamplar back bar. In this case it is unique, though, because it would be the first spammable direct damage attack used in this way to make use of a cone aoe dot as spammable.

mcagatayg

Why are you crying? ıt's a good change, buffing the dps.

juhislihis19

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

juhislihis19 wrote: »

This has to be the very first skill to be slotted but never ever to be used..? Well Temporal Guard as second ultimate for Minor Protection is one. But on ability bar?

Bound Aegis, Bird of Prey, Expert Hunter, Inner Light, and Aedric Spear ability on Stamplar back bar. In this case it is unique, though, because it would be the first spammable direct damage attack used in this way to make use of a cone aoe dot as spammable.

Bird of Prey has Expedition, which is quite often used. Hunter and Inner Light are supposed to be used for detecting stealthed enemies (although at least Hunter is really bad at it and needs a fix).

Are we talking about PVE? Because in PVE it really doesn't matter if you need to drop useful skills for passive skills but in PVP, all the skills should have a purpose upon activation.

Oh and I'm talking about Molten Whip in stamDK point of view where we have no use spamming this skill.

KhajiitFelix

mcagatayg wrote: »

Why are you crying? ıt's a good change, buffing the dps.

Would you be happy if your only spammable was from weapon skillline?

GeorgeBlack

This is very bad way to improve stamDK who has not received a buff since forever.

Seething Strike must be moved to one of the two abilities that offer both magika and stamina morphs.

Pr0Skygon

Zacuel wrote: »

YOUR PASSION INSPIRES MY PASSION!!!

FIX DK!!! AND FOR ONCE FIX IT RIGHT!!!

LET'S PASS OUR PASSION ONTO THE NEXT GENERATION OF PLAYERS!!!!!!

Pr0Skygon

mcagatayg wrote: »

Why are you crying? ıt's a good change, buffing the dps.

Because our 1 iconic skill is now mostly slotted just for a passive? Imagine if you're a samurai, you get to have an awesome katana blade but you can only keep it on your waist the whole time and can never use it. How's that feel?

Pr0Skygon

juhislihis19 wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

juhislihis19 wrote: »

This has to be the very first skill to be slotted but never ever to be used..? Well Temporal Guard as second ultimate for Minor Protection is one. But on ability bar?

Bound Aegis, Bird of Prey, Expert Hunter, Inner Light, and Aedric Spear ability on Stamplar back bar. In this case it is unique, though, because it would be the first spammable direct damage attack used in this way to make use of a cone aoe dot as spammable.

Bird of Prey has Expedition, which is quite often used. Hunter and Inner Light are supposed to be used for detecting stealthed enemies (although at least Hunter is really bad at it and needs a fix).

Are we talking about PVE? Because in PVE it really doesn't matter if you need to drop useful skills for passive skills but in PVP, all the skills should have a purpose upon activation.

Oh and I'm talking about Molten Whip in stamDK point of view where we have no use spamming this skill.

The problem is simple: With Bird of Prety, Bound Aegis and other placeholder skill, there are no drawback from using them in their own course. But Molten Whip as a dps skill will make any other dps skill weaker by using it. This is the biggest problem that prevent ppl from spamming Molten Whip.

Pr0Skygon

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Just make molten whip scale from largest resource/damage type. Idk why ZOS added double scaling for ton of abilities in U22 but not for molten whip where it's most direly needed.

The added double scaling doesn't include changes to damage types so I doubt they would make exceptions on this one. Believe me, you don't want your spam scaling on stam but costing mag and dealing flame damage. A real stam whip would be the better option.

I'm looking at flames of oblivion on stambuilds, and it's pretty solid.
Of course real stam whip will be better, but without new molten whip magDK dps will be non-existent so stamwhip is not an option while seething fury dwells in this morph. And moving it to passives will make DK a damn OP with free +375 to base SD/WD.

Flame Of Oblivion is a very mediocre skill on stamDK. The fact that it deals flame damage and cannot be affected by the CP system hurts its dps a lot. Don't believe me? It deals less damage than just simply light attack! That's how bad it is on stamDK.

Elhan

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Just make molten whip scale from largest resource/damage type. Idk why ZOS added double scaling for ton of abilities in U22 but not for molten whip where it's most direly needed.

The added double scaling doesn't include changes to damage types so I doubt they would make exceptions on this one. Believe me, you don't want your spam scaling on stam but costing mag and dealing flame damage. A real stam whip would be the better option.

I'm looking at flames of oblivion on stambuilds, and it's pretty solid.
Of course real stam whip will be better, but without new molten whip magDK dps will be non-existent so stamwhip is not an option while seething fury dwells in this morph. And moving it to passives will make DK a damn OP with free +375 to base SD/WD.

Flame Of Oblivion is a very mediocre skill on stamDK. The fact that it deals flame damage and cannot be affected by the CP system hurts its dps a lot. Don't believe me? It deals less damage than just simply light attack! That's how bad it is on stamDK.

you should try on raid dummy, it does more damage than poison injection, more than rending slash and more than trap. for a free skill it looks good imo.

here masel parse week 1: [url="https://i.imgur.com/3szNXlt.jpg[/url]

MartiniDaniels

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Just make molten whip scale from largest resource/damage type. Idk why ZOS added double scaling for ton of abilities in U22 but not for molten whip where it's most direly needed.

The added double scaling doesn't include changes to damage types so I doubt they would make exceptions on this one. Believe me, you don't want your spam scaling on stam but costing mag and dealing flame damage. A real stam whip would be the better option.

I'm looking at flames of oblivion on stambuilds, and it's pretty solid.
Of course real stam whip will be better, but without new molten whip magDK dps will be non-existent so stamwhip is not an option while seething fury dwells in this morph. And moving it to passives will make DK a damn OP with free +375 to base SD/WD.

Flame Of Oblivion is a very mediocre skill on stamDK. The fact that it deals flame damage and cannot be affected by the CP system hurts its dps a lot. Don't believe me? It deals less damage than just simply light attack! That's how bad it is on stamDK.

2k dps for skill that is literally free and need to be re-applied once in 15 seconds.. not bad imo.
Also in trial tank will penetrate magicka for 9-10k too plus engulfing flames and so on.

JinMori

Elhan wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Just make molten whip scale from largest resource/damage type. Idk why ZOS added double scaling for ton of abilities in U22 but not for molten whip where it's most direly needed.

The added double scaling doesn't include changes to damage types so I doubt they would make exceptions on this one. Believe me, you don't want your spam scaling on stam but costing mag and dealing flame damage. A real stam whip would be the better option.

I'm looking at flames of oblivion on stambuilds, and it's pretty solid.
Of course real stam whip will be better, but without new molten whip magDK dps will be non-existent so stamwhip is not an option while seething fury dwells in this morph. And moving it to passives will make DK a damn OP with free +375 to base SD/WD.

Flame Of Oblivion is a very mediocre skill on stamDK. The fact that it deals flame damage and cannot be affected by the CP system hurts its dps a lot. Don't believe me? It deals less damage than just simply light attack! That's how bad it is on stamDK.

you should try on raid dummy, it does more damage than poison injection, more than rending slash and more than trap. for a free skill it looks good imo.

here masel parse week 1: [url="https://i.imgur.com/3szNXlt.jpg[/url]

More than poison injection? allow me to disagree, you forgot the direct damage part.

Masel

For all the stamwhip advocates here: Ask yourself, does it resolve a core problem Stam DK has? The only thing it solves is not having a spammable, but there's other problems. In PvE, stam DK does not make use of the earthen heart passives. On a heavy attack stam DK you can use molten armaments, but then again, it lasts 40 seconds, while minor brutality only lasts 20. In order to give stam dk frequent access to minor brutality, the spammable needs to be in the earthen heart skill line instead of the ardent flame line.

While i understand the need for more class identity, stamwhip is not a very good solution to it.

MartiniDaniels

Masel wrote: »

For all the stamwhip advocates here: Ask yourself, does it resolve a core problem Stam DK has? The only thing it solves is not having a spammable, but there's other problems. In PvE, stam DK does not make use of the earthen heart passives. On a heavy attack stam DK you can use molten armaments, but then again, it lasts 40 seconds, while minor brutality only lasts 20. In order to give stam dk frequent access to minor brutality, the spammable needs to be in the earthen heart skill line instead of the ardent flame line.

While i understand the need for more class identity, stamwhip is not a very good solution to it.

In PVE there is DK tank

BattleAxe

Masel wrote: »

For all the stamwhip advocates here: Ask yourself, does it resolve a core problem Stam DK has? The only thing it solves is not having a spammable, but there's other problems. In PvE, stam DK does not make use of the earthen heart passives. On a heavy attack stam DK you can use molten armaments, but then again, it lasts 40 seconds, while minor brutality only lasts 20. In order to give stam dk frequent access to minor brutality, the spammable needs to be in the earthen heart skill line instead of the ardent flame line.

While i understand the need for more class identity, stamwhip is not a very good solution to it.

So stam dk doesn’t use ultimate to help with resource sustain? Has anyone realized the latent power in corrosive armor being all ur attacks ignore physical resistance. Stam dk has a lot going for it from earthen heart and a stamina morph for whip will just give dk more to draw from.

Beffagorn

mcagatayg wrote: »

Why are you crying? ıt's a good change, buffing the dps.

Okay, then let's remove all skills from a class and buff their LA damage until every LA hits for 90k. It's a dps increase, so why not? Great change, right? I'm sorry, but what kind of idiotic argument is that?

First, the Nerf to venomous claw to not be used as spammable, immediatly buff another DoT that becomes the new spammable, then force stamdks to have a mag spammable on their bars for a passive buff.

this Whip is, honestly, insulting to the few stamdks left in the game. Worst of all, it shows ZoS has no idea whatsoever of what they're doing with the class.

Also, making whip scale with stam or a straight up stam whip won't solve a single thing. The problems with the class are far deeper than something as trivial as not having a class spammable.

JinMori

Beffagorn wrote: »

mcagatayg wrote: »

Why are you crying? ıt's a good change, buffing the dps.

Okay, then let's remove all skills from a class and buff their LA damage until every LA hits for 90k. It's a dps increase, so why not? Great change, right? I'm sorry, but what kind of idiotic argument is that?

First, the Nerf to venomous claw to not be used as spammable, immediatly buff another DoT that becomes the new spammable, then force stamdks to have a mag spammable on their bars for a passive buff.

this Whip is, honestly, insulting to the few stamdks left in the game. Worst of all, it shows ZoS has no idea whatsoever of what they're doing with the class.

Also, making whip scale with stam or a straight up stam whip won't solve a single thing. The problems with the class are far deeper than something as trivial as not having a class spammable.

The spammable doesn't necessarily have to be whip, did everyone forget about stonefist? yea that *** ability that could be made into a stamina skill and no one would care and you would also get your class passives buffs.

And molten whip is extremely good now.

Also, yea, you might not be able to use claws as a spammable now, but you can use breath instead, it's actually much better because not only does it do more dps than claw, but it's also aoe.

Masel

BattleAxe wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

For all the stamwhip advocates here: Ask yourself, does it resolve a core problem Stam DK has? The only thing it solves is not having a spammable, but there's other problems. In PvE, stam DK does not make use of the earthen heart passives. On a heavy attack stam DK you can use molten armaments, but then again, it lasts 40 seconds, while minor brutality only lasts 20. In order to give stam dk frequent access to minor brutality, the spammable needs to be in the earthen heart skill line instead of the ardent flame line.

While i understand the need for more class identity, stamwhip is not a very good solution to it.

So stam dk doesn’t use ultimate to help with resource sustain? Has anyone realized the latent power in corrosive armor being all ur attacks ignore physical resistance. Stam dk has a lot going for it from earthen heart and a stamina morph for whip will just give dk more to draw from.

What you said right there also doesnt solve the problem with brutality I mentioned. Corrosive is worthwhile if you cannot get to the pen cap without it, but since you can quite easily get there, it is not. And it is too expensive to keep the passive up anyway.

A spammable in the earthen heart skill line simply makes more sense.

Beffagorn

JinMori wrote: »

The spammable doesn't necessarily have to be whip, did everyone forget about stonefist? yea that *** ability that could be made into a stamina skill and no one would care and you would also get your class passives buffs.

And molten whip is extremely good now.

Also, yea, you might not be able to use claws as a spammable now, but you can use breath instead, it's actually much better because not only does it do more dps than claw, but it's also aoe.

It's still the same thing. Whip, Stonefist, whatever. A spammable is not going to solve stamdk problems. it won't do anything in fact. Also, for the love of everything. NEVER make me spam stonefist. ugliest skill ingame by far. Please.

I never said molten whip is bad. It's actually too good and implemented horribily. It's so good and bad at the same time that stamdks are using it as a placeholder skill for a passive. There's some BIG problems in a class if something like that happens. DPS increase or not, it's bad. real bad.

Using obnoxious breath as a spammable just raises nerf flags everywhere on the skill. Do you remember why claw got nerfed? It's because ZoS DOES NOT want dots to be used as a spammable. What do you think is going to happen next to obnoxious breath, a dot being used as a spammable? The result is pretty obvious. It's going to get nerfed. Or it will stay as is. It's not like ZoS ever cared much about the mess that are Stamdks

JinMori

Beffagorn wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

The spammable doesn't necessarily have to be whip, did everyone forget about stonefist? yea that *** ability that could be made into a stamina skill and no one would care and you would also get your class passives buffs.

And molten whip is extremely good now.

Also, yea, you might not be able to use claws as a spammable now, but you can use breath instead, it's actually much better because not only does it do more dps than claw, but it's also aoe.

It's still the same thing. Whip, Stonefist, whatever. A spammable is not going to solve stamdk problems. it won't do anything in fact. Also, for the love of everything. NEVER make me spam stonefist. ugliest skill ingame by far. Please.

I never said molten whip is bad. It's actually too good and implemented horribily. It's so good and bad at the same time that stamdks are using it as a placeholder skill for a passive. There's some BIG problems in a class if something like that happens. DPS increase or not, it's bad. real bad.

Using obnoxious breath as a spammable just raises nerf flags everywhere on the skill. Do you remember why claw got nerfed? It's because ZoS DOES NOT want dots to be used as a spammable. What do you think is going to happen next to obnoxious breath, a dot being used as a spammable? The result is pretty obvious. It's going to get nerfed. Or it will stay as is. It's not like ZoS ever cared much about the mess that are Stamdks

Ill disagree with you on the molten whip, it's an excellent ability, and feels impactful.

Davadin

JinMori wrote: »

Beffagorn wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

The spammable doesn't necessarily have to be whip, did everyone forget about stonefist? yea that *** ability that could be made into a stamina skill and no one would care and you would also get your class passives buffs.

And molten whip is extremely good now.

Also, yea, you might not be able to use claws as a spammable now, but you can use breath instead, it's actually much better because not only does it do more dps than claw, but it's also aoe.

It's still the same thing. Whip, Stonefist, whatever. A spammable is not going to solve stamdk problems. it won't do anything in fact. Also, for the love of everything. NEVER make me spam stonefist. ugliest skill ingame by far. Please.

I never said molten whip is bad. It's actually too good and implemented horribily. It's so good and bad at the same time that stamdks are using it as a placeholder skill for a passive. There's some BIG problems in a class if something like that happens. DPS increase or not, it's bad. real bad.

Using obnoxious breath as a spammable just raises nerf flags everywhere on the skill. Do you remember why claw got nerfed? It's because ZoS DOES NOT want dots to be used as a spammable. What do you think is going to happen next to obnoxious breath, a dot being used as a spammable? The result is pretty obvious. It's going to get nerfed. Or it will stay as is. It's not like ZoS ever cared much about the mess that are Stamdks

Ill disagree with you on the molten whip, it's an excellent ability, and feels impactful.

for a magDK perhaps, not stamDK. it hits, what, 4-5k, maybe 7 with seething fury?

Masel wrote: »

For all the stamwhip advocates here: Ask yourself, does it resolve a core problem Stam DK has?

no, but it would resolve ONE problem of lack of class spammable.

but hey, don't mind me. i'm ok with spamming Flurry now. It's treated as a Dot for my Skoria procs every single time, and i weave it with Rending and Claw.

JinMori

Davadin wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Beffagorn wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

The spammable doesn't necessarily have to be whip, did everyone forget about stonefist? yea that *** ability that could be made into a stamina skill and no one would care and you would also get your class passives buffs.

And molten whip is extremely good now.

Also, yea, you might not be able to use claws as a spammable now, but you can use breath instead, it's actually much better because not only does it do more dps than claw, but it's also aoe.

It's still the same thing. Whip, Stonefist, whatever. A spammable is not going to solve stamdk problems. it won't do anything in fact. Also, for the love of everything. NEVER make me spam stonefist. ugliest skill ingame by far. Please.

I never said molten whip is bad. It's actually too good and implemented horribily. It's so good and bad at the same time that stamdks are using it as a placeholder skill for a passive. There's some BIG problems in a class if something like that happens. DPS increase or not, it's bad. real bad.

Using obnoxious breath as a spammable just raises nerf flags everywhere on the skill. Do you remember why claw got nerfed? It's because ZoS DOES NOT want dots to be used as a spammable. What do you think is going to happen next to obnoxious breath, a dot being used as a spammable? The result is pretty obvious. It's going to get nerfed. Or it will stay as is. It's not like ZoS ever cared much about the mess that are Stamdks

Ill disagree with you on the molten whip, it's an excellent ability, and feels impactful.

for a magDK perhaps, not stamDK. it hits, what, 4-5k, maybe 7 with seething fury?

Masel wrote: »

For all the stamwhip advocates here: Ask yourself, does it resolve a core problem Stam DK has?

no, but it would resolve ONE problem of lack of class spammable.

but hey, don't mind me. i'm ok with spamming Flurry now. It's treated as a Dot for my Skoria procs every single time, and i weave it with Rending and Claw.

Oh no, it hits much, much harder

Close to twice as much with the 3 procs.

I forgot about flurry, now it should do good dps.

BattleAxe

Masel wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

For all the stamwhip advocates here: Ask yourself, does it resolve a core problem Stam DK has? The only thing it solves is not having a spammable, but there's other problems. In PvE, stam DK does not make use of the earthen heart passives. On a heavy attack stam DK you can use molten armaments, but then again, it lasts 40 seconds, while minor brutality only lasts 20. In order to give stam dk frequent access to minor brutality, the spammable needs to be in the earthen heart skill line instead of the ardent flame line.

While i understand the need for more class identity, stamwhip is not a very good solution to it.

So stam dk doesn’t use ultimate to help with resource sustain? Has anyone realized the latent power in corrosive armor being all ur attacks ignore physical resistance. Stam dk has a lot going for it from earthen heart and a stamina morph for whip will just give dk more to draw from.

What you said right there also doesnt solve the problem with brutality I mentioned. Corrosive is worthwhile if you cannot get to the pen cap without it, but since you can quite easily get there, it is not. And it is too expensive to keep the passive up anyway.

A spammable in the earthen heart skill line simply makes more sense.

Brutality should be coming from a potion FYI yes ik that’s major brutality but there it is. The passive I mentioned restores resources based off ultimate cost so corrosive armor will actually be well worth it. Minor brutality will usually come from a dk tank or a mag dk so minor brutality issue is pretty much moot. Back to the penetration topic yes you can easily build to pen cap or as a stam dk you can build without pen also corrosive even with penetration in mind gives dk a strong offensive/defensive ultimate on par with standard of might in most aspects

JinMori

BattleAxe wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

For all the stamwhip advocates here: Ask yourself, does it resolve a core problem Stam DK has? The only thing it solves is not having a spammable, but there's other problems. In PvE, stam DK does not make use of the earthen heart passives. On a heavy attack stam DK you can use molten armaments, but then again, it lasts 40 seconds, while minor brutality only lasts 20. In order to give stam dk frequent access to minor brutality, the spammable needs to be in the earthen heart skill line instead of the ardent flame line.

While i understand the need for more class identity, stamwhip is not a very good solution to it.

So stam dk doesn’t use ultimate to help with resource sustain? Has anyone realized the latent power in corrosive armor being all ur attacks ignore physical resistance. Stam dk has a lot going for it from earthen heart and a stamina morph for whip will just give dk more to draw from.

What you said right there also doesnt solve the problem with brutality I mentioned. Corrosive is worthwhile if you cannot get to the pen cap without it, but since you can quite easily get there, it is not. And it is too expensive to keep the passive up anyway.

A spammable in the earthen heart skill line simply makes more sense.

Brutality should be coming from a potion FYI yes ik that’s major brutality but there it is. The passive I mentioned restores resources based off ultimate cost so corrosive armor will actually be well worth it. Minor brutality will usually come from a dk tank or a mag dk so minor brutality issue is pretty much moot. Back to the penetration topic yes you can easily build to pen cap or as a stam dk you can build without pen also corrosive even with penetration in mind gives dk a strong offensive/defensive ultimate on par with standard of might in most aspects

You do realize that stam dk cannot provide the one buff from their skilline that is actually useful, how is that a moot point?

It's a moot point because mag dk or tank can provide it? Are you serious dude?

So if you don;t have a mag dk or tank in your group well, you are *** out of luck?

This is the kind of thing that i just do not understand from the forums, stam sorc warden dd, stam dk cannot provide their class buffs, and that's not a problem?? Because the other setups can, to me this sounds so stupid that i cannot rationalize it.

You should really learn what a moot point is, a moot point is when something has no relevance, there clearly is some relevance in the fact that stam dk cannot provide the passive that would benefit it.