kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

If you really believe Permafrost is overloaded, what about taking away the Major Protection granted to allies within the area rather than removing it completely? I know people hate overnerfing things, so this seems like a decent approach.

Feanor wrote: »

Veil of Blades isn’t PBAoE though. A decisive distinction in a game mode that centers around mobility.

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Permafrost is a class defining skill, please don’t touch.

Same could be said about Reflective Scales, Crystal Fragments, Streak, Incap Strike.
All class defining skills, yet they got touched, in wrong places.

Yea agreed, but it has to stop somewhere. With all the changes on PTS comparing abilities is hard for balance purposes because everyone’s still talking about live.

Once pets are fixed who knows how classes will stack up.

Right now a lot of dps classes suck in pvp purely because they only spec for single target. That might change with the aoe buff.

sage2000 wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

So if Resto looses major protection than Permafrost should too right?

Permafrost does damage, stun, snare, major protection, and it's undodgable!'

Why should resto ult be the only victim?

Sure as soon as Magdens get an execute and a proper (non-ultimate) hard CC that does damage. Until then GTFO with further Magden nerfs.

In the ZOS tradition of giving Magden 2 or 3 low key nerfs every patch, despite the class not over-performing and being one of the harder classes to play effectively, this coming patch we get a cost increase on shimmering, and corrupting pollen becomes all but useless because instead of it's current 4 second defile, now the defile goes away as soon as you walk out of it. So in Cyrodill, unless your group is bombing people standing on a flag, might as well not ever slot it again.

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Permafrost is an overloaded ult imo, especially if you compare it to something like shifting banner, banner Costs more, deals less Damage, snares for less, has no stun, doesnt give a buff and uses up a GCD to be placed everytime instead of following you around.
Which also brings me to the pollen nerf, imo it is very deserved, ever since morrowind I was wondering for what reason a spammable AoE should give better Major defile than a 225 cost ultimate I really couldnt think of an answer yet.
Yeah Magden has it Rough now but that doesnt Change that Permafrost is overloaded if you compare it with other ults and it doesnt Change that a spammable class skill giving better defile than one of the most costly ults in the game is Pretty weird.

EvoAZN wrote: »

Nova's should follow Templars the way perma frost works. Then you will see how truely balanced perma is.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I still see that there's discussion on this topic. I think it's really silly that light's champion lost major protection. I would have wanted it to lose major force instead if it was to lose anything. But i also understand people's complaining about Sleet Storm and it's morphs. Yeah. It is pretty overloaded. on an underloaded class like @Joy_Division said. That's true. I'm not going to disagree with anyone there. Even with it's snare nerf and introduced counterplay options, there is still the group major protection that is an issue. I agree that something should be done about it. But that major protection should remain on the caster. But also we need compensation for this, because of our mostly reasonable, but crippling losses recently to the only thing that Magden is actually good at, Group Pvp. We absolutely need compensation buffs to Magden.

At the moment we only have 4 damage skills that are non ultimates. other classes have more damage skills to choose from to help boost in different ways. It's currently 3 raw damage skills. (Screaming Cliff Racer, Fetcher Infection and Winter's Revenge) and 1 damage skill with a debuff and no more dps-specific unique group utility as of next patch (Deep Fissure). We struggle a lot in PvE to provide utility and deal high damage compared to other classes.

These buffs should come in the form of reworked winter's embrace skills into damage skills we need that provide utility. NOT through buffing animal companions skill and passive damage. There is no better spot in the entire class for reworks. Green balance does it's healing line job very well and most of the morphs are useful bar Bursting Vines which is not far off. However, in Winter's Embrace, there are 4 morphs that are without a doubt under performing compared to their other morph or, in general. These skills are:

• Expansive Frost Cloak: most of the time it's bested in use by Ice Fortress. it's used in some endgame trials but is extremely niche. it's cost reduction doesn't help it much at all because it's not being spammed. It could gain old arctic blast (but instead scale off magicka. health restriction makes this skill too nailed to the tank) to return this skill to tanks as an option to help them proc chilled more. It may then be considered more in line with Ice Fortress. however it could also gain a passive damage buff to help Wardens specifically in PvP. this skill to date, still has no solid rework idea behind it.
  
• Arctic Blast: STILL worse than Destructive Touch because it STILL does no damage and is STILL as expensive while having a tiny heal in PvP due to battle spirit. It needs to gain really good direct frost damage or a really good DoT to make it worth it over Clench. maybe also a cost reduction to make it a competitor with vDSA shock clench.
  
• Crystallised Slab(even still but problem is no longer mainly related to it's damage dealt). what I mean by this is that it's damage is now actually decent. however, it's still 1 tick of reactionary damage that you can dodge or block. This is worse than shimmering because not only does shimmering give major heroism, 1 tick of a projectile gives the major heroism to you for 6 seconds. you will get more out of shimmering not only because it's major heroism, but because it's more reliable against builds with not many projectiles. In the case where there are a lot of projectiles flying at you from a single target, this skill will be pretty decent. but at the same time in a 1v1, they can block your newly nerfed deep fissure negating a lot of your burst power. Others may not agree, but I think this skill should still receive a complete rework away from a damage shield and into something else, like a reliable and controllable frost projectile proc skill that has a group buff attached to it or a smaller execute. As long as shimmering shield remains with major heroism, another damage shield morph will not have much competition due to shimmering's reliability and power. I don't think that this skill is bad, just outclassed in most situations by shimmering. And now also too similar to Dragon Fire Scale.
  
• and Frozen Retreat.
  The issue with this morph is that it's contradictory in nature. it's definitely a cool synergy. but on a Tank skill that also draws enemies, your ally will be pulled into the enemy cluster that you're surrounded by. that doesn't sound like a retreat. that sounds like a way to kill your ally. In pvp the synergy does not scale with the increased range given to other skills, meaning its already niche use as a trap that an enemy needs to run over to be pulled is less effective. in both situations it's better to just apply major maim to the enemy anyways. our rework idea is to increase it's base damage by roughly 60% and make the synergy scale correctly in pvp, but remove the enemy pull and the ability to have 3 different traps up at once. it now becomes an interesting and helpful trap skill that Magdens can use in pvp to block doorways or other places while also being given the opportunity to save an ally in a bad situation.

Our Glacial Presence passive feels unfinished and more of a "why?" especially now that Arctic Blast was gutted in the Murkmire patch, when it was previously the best AoE chilled applying tool in the game at 30% chance per tick. On top of this, we have a ton of people wanting more frost damage skills. so why not give the skill some inbuilt DPS chilled synergy? if applying chilled was to also give you minor force for 6 seconds it means that with a high enough proc chance, chilled can give you a great uptime on minor force meaning that you can unslot channeled acceleraton or trap in pve while not actually directly buffing your existing damage (leaving that to new skills). while also working towards the frost community's idea of frost dps= critical.

It is only logical that this frost related rework idea should happen on Magden. it doesn't need to be what we have suggested exactly. but it is the right area to buff and look at.

I want Magden to be buffed correctly so that our problems are fixed and that we are not overpowered. I and other Magdens I know were not overly impressed with the Bandaid buffs we were given with the Murkmire patch. Because they didn't fix our issues.

Buffing Advanced Species made animal companions skills more appealing to be stacked more to deal max damage which wasn't a problem to fix. It also buffed Stamden. which ALSO wasn't a problem to fix because Stamden was in a good spot.
Our pain points weren't that Fetcher Infection, Screaming Cliff Racer and Deep Fissure needed to deal more damage by buffing each other and the Bear. The pain point that lead us to this was that we had TOO much reliance on bear in pve and wanted to use another ultimate. Which is still a problem we still have in pve. We expected changes to be made to benefit sleet storm as an option in pve. But we were naive to assume that they would do that. Instead they nerfed the bear by 30% which didn't do anything to change viable ultimates. and buffed a passive no-one asked to be buffed. This passive's buff presents issues to Magden's potential other damage skills in the future and thus, in my opinion, needs to be reverted back to 2% per skill to make them less appealing in the future and to help ensure that they aren't over-tuned if this happens

The other buff that I consider a bandaid is what was done to Screaming Cliff Racer. This morph is STILL contradictory to how the class plays. Yeah, it's better against further away targets and was made to be better against closer targets, but why punish us by making us lose damage for playing how the class feels best to play? This morph is still contradictory because of the existence of deep fissure. a skill that is hard to hit 10+ meters away.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I still see that there's discussion on this topic. I think it's really silly that light's champion lost major protection. I would have wanted it to lose major force instead if it was to lose anything. But i also understand people's complaining about Sleet Storm and it's morphs. Yeah. It is pretty overloaded. on an underloaded class like @Joy_Division said. That's true. I'm not going to disagree with anyone there. Even with it's snare nerf and introduced counterplay options, there is still the group major protection that is an issue. I agree that something should be done about it. But that major protection should remain on the caster. But also we need compensation for this, because of our mostly reasonable, but crippling losses recently to the only thing that Magden is actually good at, Group Pvp. We absolutely need compensation buffs to Magden.

At the moment we only have 4 damage skills that are non ultimates. other classes have more damage skills to choose from to help boost in different ways. It's currently 3 raw damage skills. (Screaming Cliff Racer, Fetcher Infection and Winter's Revenge) and 1 damage skill with a debuff and no more dps-specific unique group utility as of next patch (Deep Fissure). We struggle a lot in PvE to provide utility and deal high damage compared to other classes.

These buffs should come in the form of reworked winter's embrace skills into damage skills we need that provide utility. NOT through buffing animal companions skill and passive damage. There is no better spot in the entire class for reworks. Green balance does it's healing line job very well and most of the morphs are useful bar Bursting Vines which is not far off. However, in Winter's Embrace, there are 4 morphs that are without a doubt under performing compared to their other morph or, in general. These skills are:

• Expansive Frost Cloak: most of the time it's bested in use by Ice Fortress. it's used in some endgame trials but is extremely niche. it's cost reduction doesn't help it much at all because it's not being spammed. It could gain old arctic blast (but instead scale off magicka. health restriction makes this skill too nailed to the tank) to return this skill to tanks as an option to help them proc chilled more. It may then be considered more in line with Ice Fortress. however it could also gain a passive damage buff to help Wardens specifically in PvP. this skill to date, still has no solid rework idea behind it.
  
• Arctic Blast: STILL worse than Destructive Touch because it STILL does no damage and is STILL as expensive while having a tiny heal in PvP due to battle spirit. It needs to gain really good direct frost damage or a really good DoT to make it worth it over Clench. maybe also a cost reduction to make it a competitor with vDSA shock clench.
  
• Crystallised Slab(even still but problem is no longer mainly related to it's damage dealt). what I mean by this is that it's damage is now actually decent. however, it's still 1 tick of reactionary damage that you can dodge or block. This is worse than shimmering because not only does shimmering give major heroism, 1 tick of a projectile gives the major heroism to you for 6 seconds. you will get more out of shimmering not only because it's major heroism, but because it's more reliable against builds with not many projectiles. In the case where there are a lot of projectiles flying at you from a single target, this skill will be pretty decent. but at the same time in a 1v1, they can block your newly nerfed deep fissure negating a lot of your burst power. Others may not agree, but I think this skill should still receive a complete rework away from a damage shield and into something else, like a reliable and controllable frost projectile proc skill that has a group buff attached to it or a smaller execute. As long as shimmering shield remains with major heroism, another damage shield morph will not have much competition due to shimmering's reliability and power. I don't think that this skill is bad, just outclassed in most situations by shimmering. And now also too similar to Dragon Fire Scale.
  
• and Frozen Retreat.
  The issue with this morph is that it's contradictory in nature. it's definitely a cool synergy. but on a Tank skill that also draws enemies, your ally will be pulled into the enemy cluster that you're surrounded by. that doesn't sound like a retreat. that sounds like a way to kill your ally. In pvp the synergy does not scale with the increased range given to other skills, meaning its already niche use as a trap that an enemy needs to run over to be pulled is less effective. in both situations it's better to just apply major maim to the enemy anyways. our rework idea is to increase it's base damage by roughly 60% and make the synergy scale correctly in pvp, but remove the enemy pull and the ability to have 3 different traps up at once. it now becomes an interesting and helpful trap skill that Magdens can use in pvp to block doorways or other places while also being given the opportunity to save an ally in a bad situation.

Our Glacial Presence passive feels unfinished and more of a "why?" especially now that Arctic Blast was gutted in the Murkmire patch, when it was previously the best AoE chilled applying tool in the game at 30% chance per tick. On top of this, we have a ton of people wanting more frost damage skills. so why not give the skill some inbuilt DPS chilled synergy? if applying chilled was to also give you minor force for 6 seconds it means that with a high enough proc chance, chilled can give you a great uptime on minor force meaning that you can unslot channeled acceleraton or trap in pve while not actually directly buffing your existing damage (leaving that to new skills). while also working towards the frost community's idea of frost dps= critical.

It is only logical that this frost related rework idea should happen on Magden. it doesn't need to be what we have suggested exactly. but it is the right area to buff and look at.

I want Magden to be buffed correctly so that our problems are fixed and that we are not overpowered. I and other Magdens I know were not overly impressed with the Bandaid buffs we were given with the Murkmire patch. Because they didn't fix our issues.

Buffing Advanced Species made animal companions skills more appealing to be stacked more to deal max damage which wasn't a problem to fix. It also buffed Stamden. which ALSO wasn't a problem to fix because Stamden was in a good spot.
Our pain points weren't that Fetcher Infection, Screaming Cliff Racer and Deep Fissure needed to deal more damage by buffing each other and the Bear. The pain point that lead us to this was that we had TOO much reliance on bear in pve and wanted to use another ultimate. Which is still a problem we still have in pve. We expected changes to be made to benefit sleet storm as an option in pve. But we were naive to assume that they would do that. Instead they nerfed the bear by 30% which didn't do anything to change viable ultimates. and buffed a passive no-one asked to be buffed. This passive's buff presents issues to Magden's potential other damage skills in the future and thus, in my opinion, needs to be reverted back to 2% per skill to make them less appealing in the future and to help ensure that they aren't over-tuned if this happens

The other buff that I consider a bandaid is what was done to Screaming Cliff Racer. This morph is STILL contradictory to how the class plays. Yeah, it's better against further away targets and was made to be better against closer targets, but why punish us by making us lose damage for playing how the class feels best to play? This morph is still contradictory because of the existence of deep fissure. a skill that is hard to hit 10+ meters away.