Daus wrote: »

There's so many abilities and passives that are OP about this class that I lack the patience to write a dissertation about it. It's clear from this class that they're no longer interested in balance.

Try to write a shortened version about Magicka Necromancer's offensive abilities, please. I'd like to see just what you think is so overpowered, while keeping in mind that Blastbones was bugged and hitting harder + critting more often than it should have been.

I've yet to see a convincing argument that offensive Magicka Necromancers are going to not be bottom-of-the-barrel in PvP (barring Rezz Ult for zerg surfing or something). There have been a ton of posts bemoaning how incredibly overpowered they are, but that hasn't been my PvP experience at all (when BGs were actually happening, that is). And it wasn't just me being bad at it, either - the total damage numbers of every other Magicka Necromancer that I saw were extremely poor, and that's from when Blastbones was being overpowered by bugs, and nobody knew how to fight them.

Stamina Necromancer is a different story, because it's Stamina.

Irylia wrote: »

This was what people were saying about warden.
And kodi/ephtacy were the only two running stamden before people figured out how to play it and how good it actually was.

Yeah kodi only played stam warden not magicka.

Magicka necro can be good and survivable but I’m a bit worried about the magicka capabilities to secure a kill after the nerfs when the patch goes live and in the long run much like magicka warden without an execute etc in solo open world pvp.

But sure magicka warden in a group setting is a beast..and magicka necro plays a lot like magwarden unfortunately.

We shall see hopefully the nerfs to stamnecro won’t affect too much magnecro.

Irylia wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

There's so many abilities and passives that are OP about this class that I lack the patience to write a dissertation about it. It's clear from this class that they're no longer interested in balance.

Try to write a shortened version about Magicka Necromancer's offensive abilities, please. I'd like to see just what you think is so overpowered, while keeping in mind that Blastbones was bugged and hitting harder + critting more often than it should have been.

I've yet to see a convincing argument that offensive Magicka Necromancers are going to not be bottom-of-the-barrel in PvP (barring Rezz Ult for zerg surfing or something). There have been a ton of posts bemoaning how incredibly overpowered they are, but that hasn't been my PvP experience at all (when BGs were actually happening, that is). And it wasn't just me being bad at it, either - the total damage numbers of every other Magicka Necromancer that I saw were extremely poor, and that's from when Blastbones was being overpowered by bugs, and nobody knew how to fight them.

Stamina Necromancer is a different story, because it's Stamina.

I agree, after doing some pts BGs it seems extremely lackluster. Though pts BGs are a bit hard to fully test things on, we had 2 duo queues and I think you joined for one of the matches, so the game ended up with 5 or so decent players in it.

2 of us were mag necro, 1 Necro Healer, and @asnd was on his Templar. The Templar had better heals, almost triple the necro’s damage, and better survivability. Some of that can certainly be attributed to not being used to playing necro, but the difference is massive. It looks like the only real damage skills necro will have are blastbones, one of the spammables, and the ult. I think it really needs a single target dot ability at least.

Yea, I remember that game. And I've made the same argument about the Magicka Necromancer's poor offensive toolkit several times, yet keep seeing post after post about how it's supposedly oh-so-overpowered. Those posts are usually light on details, though, other than mentioning Blastbones hitting really hard and critting constantly (which were both due to bugs).

I've also been repeatedly saying that Necromancer is feeling like Warden all over again: Magicka Necromancer seems quite underpowered, while Stamina Necromancer is fine-to-overpowered, and will almost certainly get Magicka nerfed because of it. Both Magicka Necromancer and Magicka Warden have offense that is too reliant on abilities that are too easily countered (and it's about to get worse for Wardens), and don't have enough of an offensive toolkit elsewhere to make up for it. That +10% DOT damage passive is basically just a big thumbs-up for Stamina builds stacking bleeds, and does essentially nothing for Magicka outside of PvE (especially after the Wall of Frost nerfs).

Irylia wrote: »

This was what people were saying about warden.
And kodi/ephtacy were the only two running stamden before people figured out how to play it and how good it actually was.

That's Stamina, not Magicka. I don't think I've seen anyone claiming that Stamina Necromancer is bad, but Magicka sure seems to be.

For duels it’s top tier.
For organized raids it will be great
10% dmg to dot (destro/pest atro)
Increased crit chance to enemies in execute. Which is a huge dmg increase when paired with accelerate.
Zergs? Anything is good when zerging

Bg/no cp
The class has a built in amber plasm, cheap abilities, purge, solid combo that mimics Magden or magsorc.
Blastbones light attack clench light flex skill (ricochet skull)
If nothing else it will play a role in either res ult for group or burst increase with atro.

I can personally say we will use a mag necro in outnumbered fights with our 4-10 groups

Magplar is pretty underwhelming when it comes to dps as well though. Especially no cp bg.

Don't agree about the magplar part. Magplar has the best mag execute atm and easily pulls high damage with good healing paired with it. Every time there's a good magplar in the game, they always are on the higher end for damage.

Irylia wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

There's so many abilities and passives that are OP about this class that I lack the patience to write a dissertation about it. It's clear from this class that they're no longer interested in balance.

Try to write a shortened version about Magicka Necromancer's offensive abilities, please. I'd like to see just what you think is so overpowered, while keeping in mind that Blastbones was bugged and hitting harder + critting more often than it should have been.

I've yet to see a convincing argument that offensive Magicka Necromancers are going to not be bottom-of-the-barrel in PvP (barring Rezz Ult for zerg surfing or something). There have been a ton of posts bemoaning how incredibly overpowered they are, but that hasn't been my PvP experience at all (when BGs were actually happening, that is). And it wasn't just me being bad at it, either - the total damage numbers of every other Magicka Necromancer that I saw were extremely poor, and that's from when Blastbones was being overpowered by bugs, and nobody knew how to fight them.

Stamina Necromancer is a different story, because it's Stamina.

I agree, after doing some pts BGs it seems extremely lackluster. Though pts BGs are a bit hard to fully test things on, we had 2 duo queues and I think you joined for one of the matches, so the game ended up with 5 or so decent players in it.

2 of us were mag necro, 1 Necro Healer, and @asnd was on his Templar. The Templar had better heals, almost triple the necro’s damage, and better survivability. Some of that can certainly be attributed to not being used to playing necro, but the difference is massive. It looks like the only real damage skills necro will have are blastbones, one of the spammables, and the ult. I think it really needs a single target dot ability at least.

Yea, I remember that game. And I've made the same argument about the Magicka Necromancer's poor offensive toolkit several times, yet keep seeing post after post about how it's supposedly oh-so-overpowered. Those posts are usually light on details, though, other than mentioning Blastbones hitting really hard and critting constantly (which were both due to bugs).

I've also been repeatedly saying that Necromancer is feeling like Warden all over again: Magicka Necromancer seems quite underpowered, while Stamina Necromancer is fine-to-overpowered, and will almost certainly get Magicka nerfed because of it. Both Magicka Necromancer and Magicka Warden have offense that is too reliant on abilities that are too easily countered (and it's about to get worse for Wardens), and don't have enough of an offensive toolkit elsewhere to make up for it. That +10% DOT damage passive is basically just a big thumbs-up for Stamina builds stacking bleeds, and does essentially nothing for Magicka outside of PvE (especially after the Wall of Frost nerfs).

Irylia wrote: »

This was what people were saying about warden.
And kodi/ephtacy were the only two running stamden before people figured out how to play it and how good it actually was.

That's Stamina, not Magicka. I don't think I've seen anyone claiming that Stamina Necromancer is bad, but Magicka sure seems to be.

For duels it’s top tier.
For organized raids it will be great
10% dmg to dot (destro/pest atro)
Increased crit chance to enemies in execute. Which is a huge dmg increase when paired with accelerate.
Zergs? Anything is good when zerging

Bg/no cp
The class has a built in amber plasm, cheap abilities, purge, solid combo that mimics Magden or magsorc.
Blastbones light attack clench light flex skill (ricochet skull)
If nothing else it will play a role in either res ult for group or burst increase with atro.

I can personally say we will use a mag necro in outnumbered fights with our 4-10 groups

Magplar is pretty underwhelming when it comes to dps as well though. Especially no cp bg.

Did you play Magicka Necromancer in BGs, or just duels? There were definite problems in BGs with Blastbones being up for the full duration because it couldn't reach its target, preventing a re-cast of the ability. And I keep saying it, but we also need to keep in mind that the damage was (is?) bugged, and it's doing more than the tooltip would indicate (and not just because the crit rate was bugged and happening far more often than it should).

Did the people you dueled ever block the Blastbones? Were they LOS'ing it, or using snares/roots/stuns for partial or total shutdown? Were there any terrain elevation differences? I ask because I once stared down an enemy Blastbones in Foyada Quarry that was up for the entire 8 second duration without ever getting to me, even though I didn't CC it or move around.

Unlike a Mag Sorc combo, the ones for Warden and Necromancer have obvious telegraphs that are connected to a set timer, and are more likely to be negatively affected by counter-CC, or even just basic movement. It's also much easier to escape - even if just temporarily in order to get a little breathing room - a Magicka Warden or Necromancer than it is a Sorcerer. I really don't think Sorcs are in any danger of losing the Offensive Magicka Crown right now. And with all the complaining about the Rezz Ult - and I don't necessarily disagree with said complaining - it's by no means guaranteed to make it to live in its current form.

What does an offense-oriented Magicka Necromancer bring to a BG/small group that a Stamina Necromancer doesn't? 100% of the class' worthwhile damaging skills have Stamina morphs (and in most cases, those morphs are better as well). The only thing I can think of is off-healing that can be spammed more frequently than Vigor. If they do some tweaks to the corpse mechanic you could add a bit of cleansing to the list, but as of right now that's fairly unreliable.

SippingPotions wrote: »

[img][/img]
Seems fine to me.

Assuming you're wearing Impen gear and have resists worth mentioning, I guess the Blastbones damage is still bugged. Blastbones damage should be roughly similar to that of a Warden's Shalks, and even if we assume that the Blastbones in your screenshot connected at the very last second without being blocked (thus getting the +50% damage bonus), it shouldn't be touching 14k on a decent build.

Irylia wrote: »

This was what people were saying about warden.
And kodi/ephtacy were the only two running stamden before people figured out how to play it and how good it actually was.

Idk about that... was pretty clear how OP stamden was before it was released, same goes for necromancer. Also, I was emp on stamden during first days of early access and everyone was playing stamden with me so I don't think kodi/ephtacy argument is completely true but people that upload build video's to the masses certainly have a large influence.

Rez necro ulti should make targets died after a minute, not a permanent ressurection.

The blastbones hit quite hard, yes, but so does the pet sorcs and warden bear which aren't affected by battle spirit because it is intended by ZOS coding, not a bug.
Before you say that they don't, here is an example: to a guy without impenetrable in light armor the blastbones can hit up to 24k (tested). The matriach can hit for 7-10k with the basic attack without wasting any magicka and also being a great healing skill. Yeah the blastbones have more rapid damage but they have a cost and they are easily counter.

A lot of people think it should hit like the warden scorch and morphs but mates, its a targetable skeleton that can be immobiliced, you can run closer or run way (they stop at a certain distant) or even destroy it before it hits you.

One problem I see is that if you can't dodge the explosion and if you use an invisibility potion it will still follow you and hit you.

Daus wrote: »

There's so many abilities and passives that are OP about this class that I lack the patience to write a dissertation about it.

I don`t often agree with Daus, but when i do.. it is about necro having so many passives & active skills that are clearly OP.