7th legion. Fury. Truth. Ravager etc
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brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭People love to complain about 7th and Fury yet most of those people's ignorance shows they have never used them and just need to complain cause they've lost to a heavy armor build.
Using BOTH on a class like a stamdk, in No-CP, means you're running with 900-1100 stam regen and 23-26k stamina at best, depending on your race and how much weapon damage you trade for more recovery/stam. Trading all your recovery and stam pool for weapon damage is a fair trade, and a perfectly balanced one.
When do those set become unbalanced? When you have 1500-1700 regen without having to trade anything for that sustain. What's the only class that can do that? It's Stamden. Bull Netch, Bird of Prey, Flourish.
Falcon's Swiftness is losing Major Endurance in the PTS notes, that's going to be a decent nerf to the real issue, without touching the sets which are fine by themselves.
Yeah it's totally a fair trade when you are (not you personally) crutching on Deep Thoughts and LoS.1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
You get 465 magicka and stamina restore every 2 seconds when using only 5 pieces of heavy armor. So you will have by far more regeneration than medium or light armor users and you even get a significant heavy attack restore bonus on top. I can promise you, that these 21% magicka regeneration from light armor don't come close to 465 magicka ever 2 seconds.
Fair point, but it rubs me wrong that people always ignore the cost reduction of medium for skills, sprint, dodge.1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
You get 465 magicka and stamina restore every 2 seconds when using only 5 pieces of heavy armor. So you will have by far more regeneration than medium or light armor users and you even get a significant heavy attack restore bonus on top. I can promise you, that these 21% magicka regeneration from light armor don't come close to 465 magicka ever 2 seconds.
Fair point, but it rubs me wrong that people always ignore the cost reduction of medium for skills, sprint, dodge.
The cost reduction is definately impactful.
I just wanted to point out, that the belief that heavy armor offers no sustain is far from true. Heavy armor has 2 sustain passives just like the others. And then you get the powerful sets on top.
People pretend that they have to make a trade off. While this is not really true. I feel like heavy armor gets it all. Damage, sustain and so much passive tankiness.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
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kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ravager is ok. The others may be nerfed into the ground as far as I'm concerned.Playing since beta...1 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »Ravager is fine.
Fury, Truth & Seventh all need to be nerfed into the ground.
Truth?? Lmao8 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »Ravager is fine.
Fury, Truth & Seventh all need to be nerfed into the ground.
Truth?? Lmao
Yes, Truth.
It's not a tremendously great set, but it is good enough to just outright replace 7th if it gets clobbered by nerfs.
Ravager's uptime is very low and generally difficult to achieve.Edited by usmcjdking on April 23, 2019 6:46PM0331
06020 -
Beffagorn✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »
Yeah it's totally a fair trade when you are (not you personally) crutching on Deep Thoughts and LoS.
That skill has very little to do with why those sets overperform on certain classes. The issue is passive sustain, not active skills for sustain like Deep Thoughts. You're still trading a skill to slot it in and are actively working to have a profit from it, plus you can interrupt it. It has counterplay.I just wanted to point out, that the belief that heavy armor offers no sustain is far from true. Heavy armor has 2 sustain passives just like the others. And then you get the powerful sets on top.
People pretend that they have to make a trade off. While this is not really true. I feel like heavy armor gets it all. Damage, sustain and so much passive tankiness.
It has 2 passives, true, but you need to take in consideration how they're activated and the effect itself. Costitution is 108 magicka-stam per piece (757 with 7pieces heavy, most people use only 5) with 4 seconds cd.
Then there's Revitalize, which is great as long as you're not using a 2h as your main weapon in pvp, since unless you're a NB using cloak, getting off a fully charged 2h heavy without it getting blocked or rolled is difficult against competent players.
There's no HA passive that increases your damage. It comes from the sets bonuses, which is another argument.
Heavy Armor doesn't get it all, just like medium or light. We're finally in a spot where all armors (The passives) are balanced and serve a purpose. Let's not ruin everything for the sake of ruining things.
Edit: Also, who really thinks Truth is op? lmao.Edited by Beffagorn on April 24, 2019 5:53PM6 -
RighteousBacon✭✭✭✭You have to take quite a lot of damage to fully proc Fury, because of that solo players and small scalers use it the most. Zerglings struggle to get the full use out of it but sadly some of them still do. It’s like VD. Some thing introduced to hurt zergs always has the downside that the zergs can just as easily use it.0 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Flame_of_Hades wrote: »
Only solo/small scalers use them. They make up likely 5% of cyrodiil population. And even then, not all solo/small scalers use these sets. No need to nerf.
Im not sure how to respond to this one. I could point out how stupid that sounds when you think about it, or I could point out why 7th/fury are so OP atm (more damage in a heavy armor set than a medium armor set), OR I could point out that zerglings use them, but I think ill do all three.
Answer this for me yes or no, do you agree with nerfing solo/small scale players?
No, but its not just solo/small scale players that are using these sets. Tanky is the meta, and thus people are running heavy armor sets. What are the best heavy armor sets?
4 guys are being chased by 15 players
The 4 players can easily proc and stack these heavy armor sets because they have plenty of incoming damage to proc.
Those 15 pugs run fury, ravager, truth.
They will hardly if ever proc or reach max potential.
Truth requires the person to have dodged an incoming ability.
Fury requires that player to get crit on 25x before max stacks
Ravager requires them to do melee damage with an 8% chance to proc.
How often are those pugs getting fury stacked when 4v15?
The 4 aren’t tossing out bleeds when that outnumbered they are aoe bomb cleaving chunks out.
That eliminates fury possibility.
Truth? The 4 aren’t spending much time tossing out any abilities that could be dodged considering they kite and then hit and even if they do hit what’s the chance they hit or target the guy with truth so he can get the application.
Ravager? Most pugs choose to range dps. As it’s the easiest and most braindead option when zerging.
The stam classes who can benefit from ravager the most is stamplar. Most other stamina don’t have the correct dmg skills or the ability to up the proc time like light rending jabs light bash.
The next best set up for proc’ ravager is dw steel nado in a large clump of enemies 15v4? 4 doesn’t sound like a lot of chances to proc since even when spinning in 10 I fail to proc it.
7th ? Much easier than the ones listed as all it requires is dmg incoming to proc it with a 10% and only needs it once every 5.
But they still won’t be getting hit when 15v4 as once again the 4 are kiting. Potentially prioritizing healers or snipers. The proc chance won’t be up if they range as Stam and if they melee they are putting themselves far further than their zerg and in more danger.
These sets are equivalent to bsw, necro, brightthroat, sun, spinner, spriggan
To name a few17 -
Ace_SiN✭✭✭✭Since I'm not using any of these sets, nerf them into the ground!!!
Nerf everything. Plenty of builds are out there and not even using these sets, but someone doesn't agree with them so just kill them outright. Then once we finish killing all the other heavy sets we can finally start killing off medium then light. When we're all running around naked and throwing fists we can work on deleting the game entirely and achieving perfect balance.King of Beasts4 -
Revokus✭✭✭✭✭Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Flame_of_Hades wrote: »
Only solo/small scalers use them. They make up likely 5% of cyrodiil population. And even then, not all solo/small scalers use these sets. No need to nerf.
Im not sure how to respond to this one. I could point out how stupid that sounds when you think about it, or I could point out why 7th/fury are so OP atm (more damage in a heavy armor set than a medium armor set), OR I could point out that zerglings use them, but I think ill do all three.
Answer this for me yes or no, do you agree with nerfing solo/small scale players?
No, but its not just solo/small scale players that are using these sets. Tanky is the meta, and thus people are running heavy armor sets. What are the best heavy armor sets?
4 guys are being chased by 15 players
The 4 players can easily proc and stack these heavy armor sets because they have plenty of incoming damage to proc.
Those 15 pugs run fury, ravager, truth.
They will hardly if ever proc or reach max potential.
Truth requires the person to have dodged an incoming ability.
Fury requires that player to get crit on 25x before max stacks
Ravager requires them to do melee damage with an 8% chance to proc.
How often are those pugs getting fury stacked when 4v15?
The 4 aren’t tossing out bleeds when that outnumbered they are aoe bomb cleaving chunks out.
That eliminates fury possibility.
Truth? The 4 aren’t spending much time tossing out any abilities that could be dodged considering they kite and then hit and even if they do hit what’s the chance they hit or target the guy with truth so he can get the application.
Ravager? Most pugs choose to range dps. As it’s the easiest and most braindead option when zerging.
The stam classes who can benefit from ravager the most is stamplar. Most other stamina don’t have the correct dmg skills or the ability to up the proc time like light rending jabs light bash.
The next best set up for proc’ ravager is dw steel nado in a large clump of enemies 15v4? 4 doesn’t sound like a lot of chances to proc since even when spinning in 10 I fail to proc it.
7th ? Much easier than the ones listed as all it requires is dmg incoming to proc it with a 10% and only needs it once every 5.
But they still won’t be getting hit when 15v4 as once again the 4 are kiting. Potentially prioritizing healers or snipers. The proc chance won’t be up if they range as Stam and if they melee they are putting themselves far further than their zerg and in more danger.
These sets are equivalent to bsw, necro, brightthroat, sun, spinner, spriggan
To name a few
**Claps** yeah those who wants those sets nerfed are the zerglings that chase 15v1 solo players/small scale across the
whole map. God forbid someone has at least a way to damage them.Playing since January 23, 20168 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭These sets are not a problem. I have no issue killing those who do use them. Unless they are really good players, but then again if they were wearing Hundings + Bone it would still be an issue cause again they are really good players, these sets exist to even out the Zerg vs Small Scale. It works good in small scale and bad in Big groups. More of these need to exist not less.
5 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sheezabeast wrote: »Fury should be a medium set
That’s my only non-nerf suggestion.
I could buy an argument for Ravager, but not Fury or 7th.3 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Flame_of_Hades wrote: »
Only solo/small scalers use them. They make up likely 5% of cyrodiil population. And even then, not all solo/small scalers use these sets. No need to nerf.
Im not sure how to respond to this one. I could point out how stupid that sounds when you think about it, or I could point out why 7th/fury are so OP atm (more damage in a heavy armor set than a medium armor set), OR I could point out that zerglings use them, but I think ill do all three.
Answer this for me yes or no, do you agree with nerfing solo/small scale players?
No, but its not just solo/small scale players that are using these sets. Tanky is the meta, and thus people are running heavy armor sets. What are the best heavy armor sets?
4 guys are being chased by 15 players
The 4 players can easily proc and stack these heavy armor sets because they have plenty of incoming damage to proc.
Those 15 pugs run fury, ravager, truth.
They will hardly if ever proc or reach max potential.
Truth requires the person to have dodged an incoming ability.
Fury requires that player to get crit on 25x before max stacks
Ravager requires them to do melee damage with an 8% chance to proc.
How often are those pugs getting fury stacked when 4v15?
The 4 aren’t tossing out bleeds when that outnumbered they are aoe bomb cleaving chunks out.
That eliminates fury possibility.
Truth? The 4 aren’t spending much time tossing out any abilities that could be dodged considering they kite and then hit and even if they do hit what’s the chance they hit or target the guy with truth so he can get the application.
Ravager? Most pugs choose to range dps. As it’s the easiest and most braindead option when zerging.
The stam classes who can benefit from ravager the most is stamplar. Most other stamina don’t have the correct dmg skills or the ability to up the proc time like light rending jabs light bash.
The next best set up for proc’ ravager is dw steel nado in a large clump of enemies 15v4? 4 doesn’t sound like a lot of chances to proc since even when spinning in 10 I fail to proc it.
7th ? Much easier than the ones listed as all it requires is dmg incoming to proc it with a 10% and only needs it once every 5.
But they still won’t be getting hit when 15v4 as once again the 4 are kiting. Potentially prioritizing healers or snipers. The proc chance won’t be up if they range as Stam and if they melee they are putting themselves far further than their zerg and in more danger.
These sets are equivalent to bsw, necro, brightthroat, sun, spinner, spriggan
To name a few
This.2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Flame_of_Hades wrote: »
Only solo/small scalers use them. They make up likely 5% of cyrodiil population. And even then, not all solo/small scalers use these sets. No need to nerf.
Im not sure how to respond to this one. I could point out how stupid that sounds when you think about it, or I could point out why 7th/fury are so OP atm (more damage in a heavy armor set than a medium armor set), OR I could point out that zerglings use them, but I think ill do all three.
Answer this for me yes or no, do you agree with nerfing solo/small scale players?
No, but its not just solo/small scale players that are using these sets. Tanky is the meta, and thus people are running heavy armor sets. What are the best heavy armor sets?
4 guys are being chased by 15 players
The 4 players can easily proc and stack these heavy armor sets because they have plenty of incoming damage to proc.
Those 15 pugs run fury, ravager, truth.
They will hardly if ever proc or reach max potential.
Truth requires the person to have dodged an incoming ability.
Fury requires that player to get crit on 25x before max stacks
Ravager requires them to do melee damage with an 8% chance to proc.
How often are those pugs getting fury stacked when 4v15?
The 4 aren’t tossing out bleeds when that outnumbered they are aoe bomb cleaving chunks out.
That eliminates fury possibility.
Truth? The 4 aren’t spending much time tossing out any abilities that could be dodged considering they kite and then hit and even if they do hit what’s the chance they hit or target the guy with truth so he can get the application.
Ravager? Most pugs choose to range dps. As it’s the easiest and most braindead option when zerging.
The stam classes who can benefit from ravager the most is stamplar. Most other stamina don’t have the correct dmg skills or the ability to up the proc time like light rending jabs light bash.
The next best set up for proc’ ravager is dw steel nado in a large clump of enemies 15v4? 4 doesn’t sound like a lot of chances to proc since even when spinning in 10 I fail to proc it.
7th ? Much easier than the ones listed as all it requires is dmg incoming to proc it with a 10% and only needs it once every 5.
But they still won’t be getting hit when 15v4 as once again the 4 are kiting. Potentially prioritizing healers or snipers. The proc chance won’t be up if they range as Stam and if they melee they are putting themselves far further than their zerg and in more danger.
These sets are equivalent to bsw, necro, brightthroat, sun, spinner, spriggan
To name a few
**Claps** yeah those who wants those sets nerfed are the zerglings that chase 15v1 solo players/small scale across the
whole map. God forbid someone has at least a way to damage them.
I´m pretty sure anyone who tried dueling with medium armor wants those sets nerfed.<Noricum>
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kaithuzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Where are the magicka equivalents?Member of:
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M12 (majestic twelve) - cult of the loli zerg3 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sheezabeast wrote: »Fury should be a medium set That’s my only non-nerf suggestion.
It makes absolutely no sense as a medium armor set.
And to all the nerf mongers here, what will you ask to get nerfed next after fury-seventh meta is gone?
Clever alchemist? Are you gonna ask for a nerf to heavy hundings perhaps?Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Flame_of_Hades wrote: »
Only solo/small scalers use them. They make up likely 5% of cyrodiil population. And even then, not all solo/small scalers use these sets. No need to nerf.
Im not sure how to respond to this one. I could point out how stupid that sounds when you think about it, or I could point out why 7th/fury are so OP atm (more damage in a heavy armor set than a medium armor set), OR I could point out that zerglings use them, but I think ill do all three.
Answer this for me yes or no, do you agree with nerfing solo/small scale players?
No, but its not just solo/small scale players that are using these sets. Tanky is the meta, and thus people are running heavy armor sets. What are the best heavy armor sets?
4 guys are being chased by 15 players
The 4 players can easily proc and stack these heavy armor sets because they have plenty of incoming damage to proc.
Those 15 pugs run fury, ravager, truth.
They will hardly if ever proc or reach max potential.
Truth requires the person to have dodged an incoming ability.
Fury requires that player to get crit on 25x before max stacks
Ravager requires them to do melee damage with an 8% chance to proc.
How often are those pugs getting fury stacked when 4v15?
The 4 aren’t tossing out bleeds when that outnumbered they are aoe bomb cleaving chunks out.
That eliminates fury possibility.
Truth? The 4 aren’t spending much time tossing out any abilities that could be dodged considering they kite and then hit and even if they do hit what’s the chance they hit or target the guy with truth so he can get the application.
Ravager? Most pugs choose to range dps. As it’s the easiest and most braindead option when zerging.
The stam classes who can benefit from ravager the most is stamplar. Most other stamina don’t have the correct dmg skills or the ability to up the proc time like light rending jabs light bash.
The next best set up for proc’ ravager is dw steel nado in a large clump of enemies 15v4? 4 doesn’t sound like a lot of chances to proc since even when spinning in 10 I fail to proc it.
7th ? Much easier than the ones listed as all it requires is dmg incoming to proc it with a 10% and only needs it once every 5.
But they still won’t be getting hit when 15v4 as once again the 4 are kiting. Potentially prioritizing healers or snipers. The proc chance won’t be up if they range as Stam and if they melee they are putting themselves far further than their zerg and in more danger.
These sets are equivalent to bsw, necro, brightthroat, sun, spinner, spriggan
To name a few
**Claps** yeah those who wants those sets nerfed are the zerglings that chase 15v1 solo players/small scale across the
whole map. God forbid someone has at least a way to damage them.
I´m pretty sure anyone who tried dueling with medium armor wants those sets nerfed.
I tried dueling with medium armor, with a nord stamDk. I don't want those sets nerfed, I demand good medium armor sets(fyi I use veiled heritance on my medium armor builds. This should give you an idea how bad medium armor lacks diversity in sets and how bad the passives are, cause light armor actually gives spell resistance, heavy armor gives both physical and spell resistance aswell as max hp, but medium armor doesn't give bonus physical resistance, or any bonus stat other than weapon damage really.), so I want a damn buff to medium armor passives already. We are in a game where heavy armor brawlers are viable, light armor magicka classes are viable, but medium armor users suffer cause their playstyle actually requires effort to be good at.
I haven't even mentioned how shuffle is a meme compared to all the other snare removal tools that grant 4 seconds of immunity with other useful bonuses. Looking at RAT especially.
So TL;DR , do not try to use medium armor's bad state as an excuse to push your agenda. Medium armor is flat out bad, and its been bad for years. There have been changes made to make it less terrible, which I am grateful for, but its not enough.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 24, 2019 8:21AM1 -
Jeezye✭✭✭✭✭These sets are equivalent to bsw, necro, brightthroat, sun, spinner, spriggan
To name a few
I agree with everything you said but your last point. Stamina has WAY better sets to access than magicka. All of them can be one-barred which always is a huge problem on theorycrafting magicka builds. Secondly, as you have pointed out, they are all great sets for outnumered fights, whilst there is NO counterpart for magicka builds. The mag sets you have mentioned, besides BSW, all need to be double barred, give flat stats that are inferioir to the "OP" sets discussed here.
Soooo, either tune down the heavy armor sets mentioned or introduce magicka counterparts. Imagine a magdk with magicka fury, a magplar with magicka 7th or a sorc running a ravager magicka version.
You'll soon realize how potent said sets really are1 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭These sets are equivalent to bsw, necro, brightthroat, sun, spinner, spriggan
To name a few
I agree with everything you said but your last point. Stamina has WAY better sets to access than magicka. All of them can be one-barred which always is a huge problem on theorycrafting magicka builds. Secondly, as you have pointed out, they are all great sets for outnumered fights, whilst there is NO counterpart for magicka builds. The mag sets you have mentioned, besides BSW, all need to be double barred, give flat stats that are inferioir to the "OP" sets discussed here.
Soooo, either tune down the heavy armor sets mentioned or introduce magicka counterparts. Imagine a magdk with magicka fury, a magplar with magicka 7th or a sorc running a ravager magicka version.
You'll soon realize how potent said sets really are
One bar fury and see how quickly it falls off.
One bar 7th and your damage buff will fall off when you are either doing damage or when you stop to buff and mitigate damage (when you’d want the weapon dmg to increase healing)
You can one bar spinners or sun because the 5th piece doesn’t affect healing. And everyone runs a buff bar so you don’t need the dmg back bar. Toss br resto onto the back. These don’t require enemies to proc them either.
You also only want bsw to proc while you are offensive and not be wasted while buffing. Especially since there is a cd. So front bar it
Necro spinner br resto 2x monster. You can wear all of that.
Slot undo for minor pro if you don’t have it. Run resistance buff and depending on monster set get more dmg mit.
My friend runs sub bsw br resto pirate on his mdk.
Another dueler run necro bsw shadowrend br resto
Doesn’t sound like an issue to meEdited by Irylia on April 24, 2019 1:42PM6 -
Syhae✭✭✭The problem isn't that the sets are OP, it's that the alternatives are no where near as good for stamina.
The sets listed all provide buffs to /raw/ weapon damage. As a result all damage sources revolving around physical, poison, disease damage are buffed. Majorly important too is the fact that healing is also buffed as a result.
Then you have sets like spriggans or automatons in medium that are very niche, while also still only giving equal physical damage or physical penetration that is equivalent to some of the heavy sets in question.
The problem isn't heavy sets, the problem is how 1 dimensional the alternatives are, especially the medium damage set alternatives.Edited by Syhae on April 24, 2019 2:09PM@Syhae
Lil Fruitsnack - DC Stamina Templar
Syhae - EP Stamina Warden
Syh-Ko - EP Stamina Nightblade
ANIMOSITY1 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Flame_of_Hades wrote: »
Only solo/small scalers use them. They make up likely 5% of cyrodiil population. And even then, not all solo/small scalers use these sets. No need to nerf.
Im not sure how to respond to this one. I could point out how stupid that sounds when you think about it, or I could point out why 7th/fury are so OP atm (more damage in a heavy armor set than a medium armor set), OR I could point out that zerglings use them, but I think ill do all three.
Answer this for me yes or no, do you agree with nerfing solo/small scale players?
No, but its not just solo/small scale players that are using these sets. Tanky is the meta, and thus people are running heavy armor sets. What are the best heavy armor sets?
4 guys are being chased by 15 players
The 4 players can easily proc and stack these heavy armor sets because they have plenty of incoming damage to proc.
Those 15 pugs run fury, ravager, truth.
They will hardly if ever proc or reach max potential.
Truth requires the person to have dodged an incoming ability.
Fury requires that player to get crit on 25x before max stacks
Ravager requires them to do melee damage with an 8% chance to proc.
How often are those pugs getting fury stacked when 4v15?
The 4 aren’t tossing out bleeds when that outnumbered they are aoe bomb cleaving chunks out.
That eliminates fury possibility.
Truth? The 4 aren’t spending much time tossing out any abilities that could be dodged considering they kite and then hit and even if they do hit what’s the chance they hit or target the guy with truth so he can get the application.
Ravager? Most pugs choose to range dps. As it’s the easiest and most braindead option when zerging.
The stam classes who can benefit from ravager the most is stamplar. Most other stamina don’t have the correct dmg skills or the ability to up the proc time like light rending jabs light bash.
The next best set up for proc’ ravager is dw steel nado in a large clump of enemies 15v4? 4 doesn’t sound like a lot of chances to proc since even when spinning in 10 I fail to proc it.
7th ? Much easier than the ones listed as all it requires is dmg incoming to proc it with a 10% and only needs it once every 5.
But they still won’t be getting hit when 15v4 as once again the 4 are kiting. Potentially prioritizing healers or snipers. The proc chance won’t be up if they range as Stam and if they melee they are putting themselves far further than their zerg and in more danger.
These sets are equivalent to bsw, necro, brightthroat, sun, spinner, spriggan
To name a few
Bone Pirate/Bright-Throat is equivalent to Fury/7th now?I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
Jeezye✭✭✭✭✭The problem isn't that the sets are OP, it's that the alternatives are no where near as good for stamina.
The sets listed all provide buffs to /raw/ weapon damage. As a result all damage sources revolving around physical, poison, disease damage are buffed. Majorly important too is the fact that healing is also buffed as a result.
Then you have sets like spriggans or automatons in medium that are very niche, while also still only giving equal physical damage or physical penetration that is equivalent to some of the heavy sets in question.
The problem isn't heavy sets, the problem is how 1 dimensional the alternatives are, especially the medium damage set alternatives.
The thing is, shouldn't every set in some way be unqiue and 1 dimenstional, with just the named sets falling off and thuse seem "op"?These sets are equivalent to bsw, necro, brightthroat, sun, spinner, spriggan
To name a few
I agree with everything you said but your last point. Stamina has WAY better sets to access than magicka. All of them can be one-barred which always is a huge problem on theorycrafting magicka builds. Secondly, as you have pointed out, they are all great sets for outnumered fights, whilst there is NO counterpart for magicka builds. The mag sets you have mentioned, besides BSW, all need to be double barred, give flat stats that are inferioir to the "OP" sets discussed here.
Soooo, either tune down the heavy armor sets mentioned or introduce magicka counterparts. Imagine a magdk with magicka fury, a magplar with magicka 7th or a sorc running a ravager magicka version.
You'll soon realize how potent said sets really are
One bar fury and see how quickly it falls off.
One bar 7th and your damage buff will fall off when you are either doing damage or when you stop to buff and mitigate damage (when you’d want the weapon dmg to increase healing)
You can one bar spinners or sun because the 5th piece doesn’t affect healing. And everyone runs a buff bar so you don’t need the dmg back bar. Toss br resto onto the back. These don’t require enemies to proc them either.
You also only want bsw to proc while you are offensive and not be wasted while buffing. Especially since there is a cd. So front bar it
Necro spinner br resto 2x monster. You can wear all of that.
Slot undo for minor pro if you don’t have it. Run resistance buff and depending on monster set get more dmg mit.
My friend runs sub bsw br resto pirate on his mdk.
Another dueler run necro bsw shadowrend br resto
Doesn’t sound like an issue to me
I'd never one bar fury because it requires you to continously get hit, so it doesn't quite fall into the category. I always one bar 7th and I strongly disagree the damage is falling off since every dot and passive damage has a 2 second interval of proccing the set again, making the buff almost always carry over to your backbar for vigors/ executes/...
Spinners and sun can be one barred but only affect damage done, same as automaton and spriggans. Still those sets are subpar to the heavy armor ones because the buff carries over and is applicable for both damage and healing.
So no, I stand with my point that those buffs sets are too universally applicable compared to their niche peers, and every set should have a niche to be applied in, or provide raw stats that have to be doublebarred1 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Flame_of_Hades wrote: »
Only solo/small scalers use them. They make up likely 5% of cyrodiil population. And even then, not all solo/small scalers use these sets. No need to nerf.
Im not sure how to respond to this one. I could point out how stupid that sounds when you think about it, or I could point out why 7th/fury are so OP atm (more damage in a heavy armor set than a medium armor set), OR I could point out that zerglings use them, but I think ill do all three.
Answer this for me yes or no, do you agree with nerfing solo/small scale players?
No, but its not just solo/small scale players that are using these sets. Tanky is the meta, and thus people are running heavy armor sets. What are the best heavy armor sets?
4 guys are being chased by 15 players
The 4 players can easily proc and stack these heavy armor sets because they have plenty of incoming damage to proc.
Those 15 pugs run fury, ravager, truth.
They will hardly if ever proc or reach max potential.
Truth requires the person to have dodged an incoming ability.
Fury requires that player to get crit on 25x before max stacks
Ravager requires them to do melee damage with an 8% chance to proc.
How often are those pugs getting fury stacked when 4v15?
The 4 aren’t tossing out bleeds when that outnumbered they are aoe bomb cleaving chunks out.
That eliminates fury possibility.
Truth? The 4 aren’t spending much time tossing out any abilities that could be dodged considering they kite and then hit and even if they do hit what’s the chance they hit or target the guy with truth so he can get the application.
Ravager? Most pugs choose to range dps. As it’s the easiest and most braindead option when zerging.
The stam classes who can benefit from ravager the most is stamplar. Most other stamina don’t have the correct dmg skills or the ability to up the proc time like light rending jabs light bash.
The next best set up for proc’ ravager is dw steel nado in a large clump of enemies 15v4? 4 doesn’t sound like a lot of chances to proc since even when spinning in 10 I fail to proc it.
7th ? Much easier than the ones listed as all it requires is dmg incoming to proc it with a 10% and only needs it once every 5.
But they still won’t be getting hit when 15v4 as once again the 4 are kiting. Potentially prioritizing healers or snipers. The proc chance won’t be up if they range as Stam and if they melee they are putting themselves far further than their zerg and in more danger.
These sets are equivalent to bsw, necro, brightthroat, sun, spinner, spriggan
To name a few
Bone Pirate/Bright-Throat is equivalent to Fury/7th now?
I mean take one of the low end brightthroat and compare it to fury. Nice
More like brightthroat and veiled/truth
Necro or bsw and fury
4K mag with cp/undaunted/inner light/class passive modifiers
That amps it to around 5k mag
Then you also get 250 gen compared to 7th hp gen weapon dmg and 3%. Crit
So yea.
Also not taking into account that light armor gets crit and 5k pen.
Wearing one of those heavy sets doesn’t net you any damage from these heavy armor bonuses.
And now trait change is a thing so you can wear these sets that were originally healthy/heavy and put them into robust or infused for medium armor and your weapon dmg modifier will amplify them even more.
Truth works well with rolling. Medium has roll reduction.
I can stack fury on warden medium. Dk can as well. Even stamsorcs.
Less viable with stamplar as they purify but they can also ravager robust/infused as medium.
These sets have more damage than others like hunding but look how many sets are actually useful compared to all the dumpster ones that are released.
Hundings looking like a snack compared to many of the other random sets. Vampire lord, netch touch. Etc.
Edited by Irylia on April 24, 2019 2:57PM0 -
Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Flame_of_Hades wrote: »
Only solo/small scalers use them. They make up likely 5% of cyrodiil population. And even then, not all solo/small scalers use these sets. No need to nerf.
Im not sure how to respond to this one. I could point out how stupid that sounds when you think about it, or I could point out why 7th/fury are so OP atm (more damage in a heavy armor set than a medium armor set), OR I could point out that zerglings use them, but I think ill do all three.
better to use them as jewelries/weapons, so u get DPS from med, PLUS the 5-piece bonus when ur under fire.August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber1 -
BlackMadara✭✭✭✭People love to complain about 7th and Fury yet most of those people's ignorance shows they have never used them and just need to complain cause they've lost to a heavy armor build.
Using BOTH on a class like a stamdk, in No-CP, means you're running with 900-1100 stam regen and 23-26k stamina at best, depending on your race and how much weapon damage you trade for more recovery/stam. Trading all your recovery and stam pool for weapon damage is a fair trade, and a perfectly balanced one.
When do those set become unbalanced? When you have 1500-1700 regen without having to trade anything for that sustain. What's the only class that can do that? It's Stamden. Bull Netch, Bird of Prey, Flourish.
Falcon's Swiftness is losing Major Endurance in the PTS notes, that's going to be a decent nerf to the real issue, without touching the sets which are fine by themselves.
You wouldn't say that if you knew heavy armor.
You forget that heavy armor gives more regeneration than any other armor and it gives Stamina and Magicka at the same time.
You get 465 magicka and stamina restore every 2 seconds when using only 5 pieces of heavy armor. So you will have by far more regeneration than medium or light armor users and you even get a significant heavy attack restore bonus on top. I can promise you, that these 21% magicka regeneration from light armor don't come close to 465 magicka ever 2 seconds.
Defending heavy armor (saying it is bad) is absolutely questionable and out of place.
Yet I agree with the general consens, that Ravager does not need nerfs. Fury and Legions certainly need to be brought in line.
You are misinformed about HA regen.
Constitution grants 108 stamina and mag on taking damage every 4 seconds, not 2. This means 540 with 5 pieces or 756 for 7. That equates to 270 or 378 recovery, respectively. These cannot be manipulated unless using Blackrose. The percent increase in regen and cost reduction of light and medium armor are much better for main stat sustain.
The passives for heavy armor are weak compared to light and medium overall. The main boon they grant are extra resistances and health, with the increased healing really only outperforming light armor. You get much more damage in light due to the crit and pen, and medium armors weapon damage boost will almost balance out the healing passive in heavy.
There are a lot of misconceptions about heavy armors effectiveness. It is good for being defensive, yes. It does very little, comparatively, in terms of sustain and damage.5
. Buff it please 
