Nightblade Major Expedition: Balance by "consistency pass" just results in flavorless classes

Silver_Strider · April 2019

KatySpirit wrote: »

As a NB healer and tank and magic DPS.... I would rather have literally any other buff. I find it kind of sad that one of the only group buffs we can provide is the ability to run fast.

I'm sure it has its uses in PVP and all, I just feel like there are bigger priorities than a buff we still have. I would like Funnel Health to do more damage again and for them not to nerf Dark Cloak into the ground

PURGE THE EVIL THOUGHTS RUNNING THRU MY HEAD!!!!!

Iskiab · April 2019

Beavisaur13 wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

as a nightblade i need that 4 second speed or we are dead.
Double Take,
removed that 4 second speed boost -
this will devastate our ability to escape this cant be allowed to happen or we will have no ability to get out of immediate Danger = we will be dead, no escape while in sneak.

O no, now it's slightly harder for nightblades, to run away like weenies when there losing.

Says the class that’s built to win head to head fights

ccmedaddy · April 2019

💅

Silver_Strider · April 2019

ccmedaddy wrote: »

please delete this post before ZOS sees this thanks

Deleted, now edit your post or its meaningless.

Yiko · April 2019

I don’t understand the logic of shifting utility and buffs of abilities that classes have been historically balanced around to abilities that no player looking to be competitive can afford to slot for the sake of standardization/streamlining. So mark gives major fracture.. that means surprise attack must lose major fracture? Path gives major expedition in a specific way, better nerf Crippling Grasp’s differing conditions for acquiring major expedition because... reasons? What % of good or knowledgeable players even slot a gap closer these days in PVP, or path, or mark? Minor vuln and 60% snare reduction on ambush are only oppressive Xv1 mechanics.

These changes are effectively useless. Sweet, nb gets snare/root removal.. a week on pts after literally everyone gets access to major exp, root/snare immunity, minor force, and psijic passive shield through Race Against Time. What is the reason that Crippling Grasp *needed* to have major expedition removed, ESPECIALLY at the same time that every other class will gain access to Major Expedition and root/snare immunity? How are they planning to add power back to the class without messing with pve? More utility down the road? Why stop at buffs? Let’s keep killing flavor: maybe Fossilize needs its root removed, since there’s already a root attached to Talons.

I just don’t agree with their methodology, and many of the proposed changes are asinine. Like I get trying to cut out redundancy, but weren’t these abilities designed in such a way for specific reasons?? How about fixing Shade after being bugged for multiple months instead of messing with the underrepresented magnb’s identity of kiting and control? I think that would make more sense.

zyk · April 2019

Yiko wrote: »

How are they planning to add power back to the class without messing with pve?

Great functions like Minor Mangle on Incap and a completely unreliable and unpredictable heal on Assassin's Will.

Those two changes show ZOS isn't really trying. I apologize to any class reps who may have recommended those changes. I know your intent was good and it was better than the probable alternative: nothing.

The key problem is that NB burst relies on hard hitting abilities applied in serial vs burst from other classes that can be easily layered with abilities like curse, sub, potl, etc that hit in parallel. This means that if NBs are to have superior burst in PVP, they also have superior DPS in trials.

Yiko · April 2019

zyk wrote: »

Yiko wrote: »

How are they planning to add power back to the class without messing with pve?

Great functions like Minor Mangle on Incap and a completely unreliable and unpredictable heal on Assassin's Will.

Those two changes show ZOS isn't really trying. I apologize to any class reps who may have recommended those changes. I know your intent was good and it was better than the probable alternative: nothing.

The key problem is that NB burst relies on hard hitting abilities applied in serial vs burst from other classes that can be easily layered with abilities like curse, sub, potl, etc and applied in parallel. This means that if NBs are to have superior burst in PVP, they also have superior DPS in trials.

Agreed, I’ve already made a few posts expressing why I thought those changes, especially including the ones you listed, were fundamentally conceptually bad design. I definitely acknowledge that stamblade needed to be tuned down and the skill floor lowered, but I can’t support zos’ reasoning or methodology here. I heard they’re doing class passive rebalancing soon. Guess we’ll be in for some surprises then, too

ccfeeling · April 2019

NB skills rework every patch .

NB skills rework every week in PTS .

I have no idea what's the DEV doing , PVP and PVE are two different worlds , you guys cannot balance well .

actosh · April 2019

ccfeeling wrote: »

NB skills rework every patch .

NB skills rework every week in PTS .

I have no idea what's the DEV doing , PVP and PVE are two different worlds , you guys cannot balance well .

Sorry to say that, but each time combat lead changes, each time they try to make a diferent game out of it.

The try to establish rules for skills and all the systems in the game, and yet they also introduce rulebreaker skills (they have their own category as stated by zos).

Theres just no plan it seems. No long term goal, bo vision on how stuff would or should be.
I would give a *** if this would only apply to the champion point system, but its applying to the whole combat thing, wich is the biggest part in an mmo and this is really really concerning.

MentalxHammer · April 2019

Literally just a mag version of shuffle nice class identity ZoS...

Kuramas9tails · April 2019

Beavisaur13 wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

as a nightblade i need that 4 second speed or we are dead.
Double Take,
removed that 4 second speed boost -
this will devastate our ability to escape this cant be allowed to happen or we will have no ability to get out of immediate Danger = we will be dead, no escape while in sneak.

O no, now it's slightly harder for nightblades, to run away like weenies when there losing.

It affects more than PVP you know....like what 90% of the other content of the game is....

DeadlyRecluse · April 2019

The entire language of "consistency pass" and bringing all skills of a type (AOE, DoT, etc) "into line with each other" kinda worries me. It sounds like a push for more homogenization. We'll see.

Feanor · April 2019

@code65536

Well, what do you expect when everyone demands from ZOS that all classes need to be competitive at everything? This all started with the wish that every class needs to be good at being a DD, tank or healer in endgame PvE and PvP. As balance is a nightmare otherwise homogenization is the easiest way out of the dilemma. When everyone should be equal, Flavor leads to being overpowered. Always.

kojou · April 2019

I had a similar thoughts as well as I have been reading these patch notes.

I get it, Nightblades are over performing, but do we really have to remove all the things that make Nightblade a fun class to make it balanced?

One of the fun things about playing a Nightblade was I didn't have to dwell in the stack like other classes because I had my own source of Minor Berserk. Now Nightblades are "stack dwellers", so less fun while running one. I don't understand why the devs couldn't just buff the duration of Combat Prayer instead and give other classes more freedom from the stack and higher Minor Berserk up time. It will be interesting to see how many Nightblades with orange glowing Slimecraw arms there are after this.

Then on Stamina Nightblade we lose Magor Fracture on Surprise Attack. This was also a great tool for focusing an important target that the tank wasn't necessarily able to de-buff. Why couldn't we just add major fracture to Rapid Strikes? That skill is in bad need of a buff anyway and it would give other classes the option of applying single target Major Fracture on an important "add" if there wasn't a Nightblade in the group.

The loss of Expedition on Cripple was just outright unnecessary. It was not OP, and did not add to DPS, but it did add to surviability. Now the devs will have to add to other forms of survivabilty. I would rather have my Nightblade be this slippery fast moving DPS that can avoid damage rather than being just another class with a burst heal and mitigation. If I want to stand my ground and fight with heals and mitigation I will play on one of my Sorcerers, Wardens, Templars, or DKs.

I will be interested to see what class everyone jumps to for ranged magicka DPS after this. I have a feeling it will be Templar, but I haven't had a chance to do any of my own DPS testing on PTS yet.

Also, what ever happened to just lowering the damage of over performing skills to lower power creep and balance classes? Why do we have to remove all the fun affects off of all the skills instead?