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Do you think ZoS listens to its player base?
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Imperial_Voice wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Yes.
I just don't confuse Listening to the player base with Doing what the player base wants.
Nobody is confusing the two. Were talking about whether ZoS actively ignores certain parts of the playerbase in favor of others or if they listen communicate adequately with all parts of the playerbase
I'm sure ZOS listens to all of their playerbase. I'm also sure they don't always do what various portions of the playerbase want - and that the playerbase then construes that as "ZOS is ignoring us!!!"
As for ZOS communicating adequately...
A. That's not what the OP asked about.
B.
Can't you hear me laughing? 
C. ZOS pretty clearly communicates with the class reps primarily and the rest of the forum community infrequently, with the result that everyone on the forums feels like their pet issues are being neglected at one time or another.Edited by VaranisArano on April 21, 2019 3:06PM0 -
Imperial_Voice✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some communities yes but others no.VaranisArano wrote: »Imperial_Voice wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Yes.
I just don't confuse Listening to the player base with Doing what the player base wants.
Nobody is confusing the two. Were talking about whether ZoS actively ignores certain parts of the playerbase in favor of others or if they listen communicate adequately with all parts of the playerbase
I'm sure ZOS listens to all of their playerbase. I'm also sure they don't always do what various portions of the playerbase want - and that the playerbase then construes that as "ZOS is ignoring us!!!"
As for ZOS communicating adequately...
A. That's not what the OP asked about.
B. Can't you hear me laughing?
C. ZOS pretty clearly communicates with the class reps primarily and the rest of the forum community infrequently, with the result that everyone on the forums feels like their pet issues are being neglected at one time or another.
Since Im the OP Im pretty sure I can decide what I mean when I say words. Thanks for your interpretation though.3 -
Nimrhys✭✭✭Yes, always.I haven’t been here for long but what I have seen so far has me impressed.
The communication seems very good and their customer service is excellent. It’s refreshing, having come from WoW where they literally say “Sorry we messed up will do better next time” every single Q&A.
The changes from ESO’s launch to now prove to me that they listen. That they interact on forums and the whole queue thing (which didn’t really bother me) was handled well imo. Very happy with them.3 -
Imperial_Voice✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some communities yes but others no.I haven’t been here for long but what I have seen so far has me impressed.
The communication seems very good and their customer service is excellent. It’s refreshing, having come from WoW where they literally say “Sorry we messed up will do better next time” every single Q&A.
The changes from ESO’s launch to now prove to me that they listen. That they interact on forums and the whole queue thing (which didn’t really bother me) was handled well imo. Very happy with them.
People gave them a rougher time than they deserved for the server queue2 -
Paazhahdrimaak✭✭✭✭✭Other/you forgot oneThey listen to the loudest, longest, unskilled reposting whiners who just wanna pay for everything and not play the game to earn it themselves
Thats why we can purchase a WW or vamp bite and cure it lol
We can buy event tickets because of these losers.
We can buy a character change tokens because of these whiners.
Thats why on DLC drops we can buy the new motifs straight from the crown store, lazy pricks
Thats why they sell crown store potions and soul gems (people actually buy those, i had to leave a group once because this guy said he sold all his in game soul gems and just bought the crown store ones...)
Edit: Phone Autocorrected wrong word
Edited by Paazhahdrimaak on April 21, 2019 4:24PM2 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, always.lordrichter wrote: »Listen =/= Obey
This. If devs actually did all the things their forum-goers yelled about, so many games would become (worse) dumpster fires.
(I still say Bioware buckling to the "Hold The Line"/ME3 Ending whiners was a terrible precedent. Yeah, I though the ending was awful - for different reasons than many - but jumping to try & change it just because of a mob was dumb.)0 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Other/you forgot oneImperial_Voice wrote: »Just a poll to see how people feel ZoS is doing about listening to its playerbase. Personally its been my experience thay ZoS will listen more to certain parts of the playerbase quite well but others wil be absolutely ignored. Id like to see what others think.
they listen to what ever the CEO's and focus groups tell them will make the most money in each cycle. in that it caters to a single player casual that really cares nothing for game play just access to everything reguardles of skill level or progression.they build their billing cycles on predatory tactics to l;ure people to not only paying for every aspect of the game but subscribing for features that should be part of the game like a damn crafting inventory. ESO does not have a player base it has a rotating churn of visitors that have to buy things at the gift shop before they enter4 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Some communities yes but others no.They listen to some (and sometimes the most vocal promoters of things).
The problem is what to believe. People come here working an agenda and that agenda is to improve their situation (or not weaken it).
If you think the nerf to snipe (for example) is warranted... you heap praise on their brave decision. But... the real reason is likely it was the only weakness to over extending stats amplified by cheats play. Sure it would gib those that were ungeared for or unprepared for pvp, but so does nearly any bursting setup. The benefit is those that aren't on the up and up had one weakness... and that weakness was that when they overextended they were vulnerable to ranged bursting with snipes. Now they got that mitigated and the horde of the unknowing is cheering.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We know it does. It has been demonstrated many times. Some think the devs do not listen because their suggestion was not headed or their disagreement with a change was not accepted, but the forum often disagrees and not every idea is worthy.bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »No game dev should listen to its playerbase. Always remember people are idiots and the dunning Kruger effect is constantly in motion. The devs should balance based off data with suggestions from top players who know the ins and outs of game mechanics, though with a grain of salt because everybody has their class biases as well as their suggestions catering only to the top level of play.
This is probably the most absurd statement in here if I understand it correctly.
Besides the clear fact that devs in this game and pretty much every game do not play their game seriously they do not have a great understanding of how the game is playing out.
Zos learns plenty from the players and I know this for a fact. This is not just in this game but other games as well. True theorycrafters that figure out the nuts and bolts end up educating the devs on what exactly is happening with certain mechanics. This has lead Zos, and same in other games, to make changes to correct the behavior.
It is also callous and inappropriate to call people idiots. They may not have a full grasp of the game as a whole and just looking at their own playstyle and interests but that does not make them an idiot.4 -
DTStormfox✭✭✭✭✭Yes, always.Yes, they do listen to the player base.
It must be really hard for them to separate the wheat from the chaff.0 -
Imperial_Voice✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some communities yes but others no.DTStormfox wrote: »Yes, they do listen to the player base.
It must be really hard for them to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Nope. Its all chaf0 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Other/you forgot onebigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »No game dev should listen to its playerbase. Always remember people are idiots and the dunning Kruger effect is constantly in motion. The devs should balance based off data with suggestions from top players who know the ins and outs of game mechanics, though with a grain of salt because everybody has their class biases as well as their suggestions catering only to the top level of play.
MMOs are no longer made for the players they are made for CEOs. unfortunately the genre is in sad shape.1 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, always.they cherry pick and choose who they want to listen to.
depends on the day
sometimes you
sometimes me1 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other/you forgot oneIf players ask for something I agree with, and ZOS does it, I feel that ZOS listens.
If players ask for something I don't agree with and ZOS does it, I feel that ZOS listens but shouldn't.
If players ask for something I agree with and ZOS doesn't do it, I feel ZOS doesn't listen.
If players ask for something I don't agree with and ZOS doesn't do it, I feel that ZOS is right for not listening.
I'm simply human, I guess... :-)3 -
bigelle.x3_ESO✭✭✭
It is also callous and inappropriate to call people idiots. They may not have a full grasp of the game as a whole and just looking at their own playstyle and interests but that does not make them an idiot.
Son do you even read these forumsEdited by bigelle.x3_ESO on April 21, 2019 5:51PM2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »This is probably the most absurd statement in here if I understand it correctly.
Besides the clear fact that devs in this game and pretty much every game do not play their game seriously they do not have a great understanding of how the game is playing out.
Zos learns plenty from the players and I know this for a fact. This is not just in this game but other games as well. True theorycrafters that figure out the nuts and bolts end up educating the devs on what exactly is happening with certain mechanics. This has lead Zos, and same in other games, to make changes to correct the behavior.
It is also callous and inappropriate to call people idiots. They may not have a full grasp of the game as a whole and just looking at their own playstyle and interests but that does not make them an idiot.
Son do you even read these forums
Son? LMAO Seriously.
Do you read your own post., If it was an attempt at sarcasm it was not truly obvious. Son, says the child to the adult.2 -
thedude33✭✭✭✭✭Yes, always.Wifeaggro13 wrote: »bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »No game dev should listen to its playerbase. Always remember people are idiots and the dunning Kruger effect is constantly in motion. The devs should balance based off data with suggestions from top players who know the ins and outs of game mechanics, though with a grain of salt because everybody has their class biases as well as their suggestions catering only to the top level of play.
MMOs are no longer made for the players they are made for CEOs. unfortunately the genre is in sad shape.
BS
Bad game = no players = unhappy CEO
This isn't real life where you are forced to pay taxes in an unfair system. The genre has evolved over the years to adapt to what the players want. A classic game like Everquest, which kickstarted this whole genre, would not survive if released today.
Sure the CEO wants to make money. Why would they make a game that didn't make money? Still, it has to be a game that people play for that to happen0 -
bigelle.x3_ESO✭✭✭bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »This is probably the most absurd statement in here if I understand it correctly.
Besides the clear fact that devs in this game and pretty much every game do not play their game seriously they do not have a great understanding of how the game is playing out.
Zos learns plenty from the players and I know this for a fact. This is not just in this game but other games as well. True theorycrafters that figure out the nuts and bolts end up educating the devs on what exactly is happening with certain mechanics. This has lead Zos, and same in other games, to make changes to correct the behavior.
It is also callous and inappropriate to call people idiots. They may not have a full grasp of the game as a whole and just looking at their own playstyle and interests but that does not make them an idiot.
Son do you even read these forums
Son? LMAO Seriously.
Do you read your own post., If it was an attempt at sarcasm it was not truly obvious. Son, says the child to the adult.
There's 80 threads about getting killed in a pvp zone. Yes the devs should listen to these players. Let's hold a public forum so these voices can be heard. Hope and change.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »This is probably the most absurd statement in here if I understand it correctly.
Besides the clear fact that devs in this game and pretty much every game do not play their game seriously they do not have a great understanding of how the game is playing out.
Zos learns plenty from the players and I know this for a fact. This is not just in this game but other games as well. True theorycrafters that figure out the nuts and bolts end up educating the devs on what exactly is happening with certain mechanics. This has lead Zos, and same in other games, to make changes to correct the behavior.
It is also callous and inappropriate to call people idiots. They may not have a full grasp of the game as a whole and just looking at their own playstyle and interests but that does not make them an idiot.
Son do you even read these forums
Son? LMAO Seriously.
Do you read your own post., If it was an attempt at sarcasm it was not truly obvious. Son, says the child to the adult.
There's 80 threads about getting killed in a pvp zone. Yes the devs should listen to these players. Let's hold a public forum so these voices can be heard. Hope and change.
LOL> If you are talking about inexperienced players getting killed in PvP they are the last person Zos should listen to in most cases. They are obviously going to die since they do not know what they are doing in PvP. I have seen one that was worthy for Zos to pay attention to.
Yes, I have seen them, running around like no one will kill them, then they get killed.
If you are trying to make a big deal that one week out of this entire event is in a PvP area then it fails. Do they need to be there? No. They can get enough event tickets without doing the PvP part and I do not think any drops this week are only dropping this week.
So again, if the complaint is that the event this week enters PvP it is a very weak complaint. 1 week out of 5 is PvP and people complain. It is probably good for them to experience PvP. Hopefully they learn to be more cautious.0 -
bigelle.x3_ESO✭✭✭I don't know what kind of tangent you've run off to, but my original point is when it comes the balance the vast majority of the playerbase can be ignored because they have no idea what they're talking about, as evidenced by just reading the forums, ie idiots. The devs can see which skills are over or underperforming and with advice from actual knowledgeable players they can come to their own conclusions on how to proceed.0
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Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, always.Listen to or act on the suggestions of? I’m sure they’re always reading posts, but that doesn’t mean they’re going to change things the way we want. And really most of their changes aren’t the issue. The number one pain point tends to be performance. Changes can be adapted to and in general balance between classes isn’t too bad and should theoretically get better throughout this year.Edited by Vapirko on April 21, 2019 6:02PM0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Imperial_Voice wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Imperial_Voice wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Yes.
I just don't confuse Listening to the player base with Doing what the player base wants.
Nobody is confusing the two. Were talking about whether ZoS actively ignores certain parts of the playerbase in favor of others or if they listen communicate adequately with all parts of the playerbase
I'm sure ZOS listens to all of their playerbase. I'm also sure they don't always do what various portions of the playerbase want - and that the playerbase then construes that as "ZOS is ignoring us!!!"
As for ZOS communicating adequately...
A. That's not what the OP asked about.
B. Can't you hear me laughing?
C. ZOS pretty clearly communicates with the class reps primarily and the rest of the forum community infrequently, with the result that everyone on the forums feels like their pet issues are being neglected at one time or another.
Since Im the OP Im pretty sure I can decide what I mean when I say words. Thanks for your interpretation though.
Hello, OP.
That awkward moment when it becomes clear that communication over the internet is an odd thing, in which clarification helps, but doesn't ensure that everyone understands each other's meaning clearly.
I appreciate the clarification. Thanks.0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other/you forgot onebigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »I don't know what kind of tangent you've run off to, but my original point is when it comes the balance the vast majority of the playerbase can be ignored because they have no idea what they're talking about, as evidenced by just reading the forums, ie idiots. The devs can see which skills are over or underperforming and with advice from actual knowledgeable players they can come to their own conclusions on how to proceed.
"Balance" is just one aspect of game design. Class feeling, difficulty (real or felt), learning curve, player progression, character progression, immersion, storytelling, etc.. are just as crucial.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »I don't know what kind of tangent you've run off to, but my original point is when it comes the balance the vast majority of the playerbase can be ignored because they have no idea what they're talking about, as evidenced by just reading the forums, ie idiots. The devs can see which skills are over or underperforming and with advice from actual knowledgeable players they can come to their own conclusions on how to proceed.
You are the one who just mentioned "80 threads about getting killed in a pvp zone" and most PvP related complaint threads ATM are event related.
I think you need to read the forums and your own posts as most of the PvP complaint threads right now are event related. I am not going to make some condescending comment and call you son, lol.
Further. even if you are just not good at making yourself clear and are suggesting that the normal PvP complaint threads about players that qq about a certain skill and such because they want the skill brought to their level vs them rising to the occasion then no, Zos should not listen to those threads.
Some combat related comments do have merit but Zos should weed through the ones that do not to find the ones that do. Also, it is clear they do listen.
In fact we do know Zos does listen to PvP related comments. Earthgore is being nerfed as a result.0 -
kratier✭✭✭✭Infrequentlyi think they take feedback from class reps and the top 1% of the game, and ignore the entire rest of the playerbase, and build their content pipeline on the words of these select few, missing the entire point of their game, the entire playerbase and what makes it good
its a terrible way to run things4 -
Anhedonie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, always.Well, I complained about motion sickness and they added screen shake slider in the very next patch.
I complained about templar's spells with cast time and they reworked them.
There was something else, but anyway, the point is I know for a fact that they do *** listen and there is no point denying that.Profanity filter is a crime against the freedom of speech. Also gags.0 -
MooseKnuckles88✭✭✭✭Some communities yes but others no.Definitely not the Warden community, they rather make a whole new class than fix one they added.
Challenge NOT accepted. -ZoS3
