PTS Update 22 - Feedback Thread for Dragons

  • Kamchuk
    Kamchuk
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    There are at least a couple of other threads on Dragons and the comments pretty much have the same theme. The Dragons should be the Boss of all bosses. It should take a sizeable group, (perhaps even with siege weapons), to bring them down. They should not be a big cow waiting to get killed. I'm not sure what you can implement before release. But I have another suggestion - put a timer on the battle. If the dragon isn't killed within say 8 minutes, then the dragon flies away, laughing and taunting. But the rewards for killing them should be epic or legendary.
  • VeiledCriticism
    VeiledCriticism
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    • Were you able to find Dragons in Elsweyr?
      Hard to miss the big Dragon icon on the map. I loved this aspect in fact. That Dragons 'show up' as they please instead of simply spawing in the same place over and over.
    • Did you find one at a distance and chase it down, or just stumble upon one?
      Both. Saw one fliying and went after to try to fight it.
    • Did you fight in a group or solo?
      Never solo. I fought around 10 dragons, ranged from groups of three full cp players to 10+ players on various level.
      The hardest was the three man group, but one of us was a healer so we managed to bring the beast down. Some instances were the group were 4+ people I was able to survive the entire fight without dying.
      Althought the core mechanics already exists and the fights are incredible fun (I literally jumped when I heard a dragon shout the first time), the level of difficulty should be increased greatly. Not by adding more health, but enhancing current mechs. For example, when a dragon shouts FUS RO DAH, it should push players FAR FAR AWAY even if they block. Currently, my non-dragonborn toon can withstand a might shout, which does not make sense. In the same lines, Dragons should shout more often and shout should be far more deadlier. Add more mechanics where the dragons are just flying and attacking people from far away and less time in groung. C'mon, they've been in the hall of colossus for ages, they want to stretch those wings.
      It would be cool to add an event where sometimes a second, a third dragon would show up to aid the first for example. Thus, a huge amount of players would be require to kill those beasts. Also, dragons could be responsive to the amount of opponents, like Geysers in Summerset, but harder.
    • What do you think the most dangerous things about Dragons are?
      Flying attacks; Tail and wing swipes; and the fire breaths
    • Is this something you’re looking forward to when Elsweyr launches?
      HELL YEAH!
    • Did the loot from Dragons feel satisfying?
      NO. I didn't get any dragonscale that used 324978623194 slot spaces. Jokes aside, it does feel rewarding. Don't think a open world boss should be able to give greater rewards, since it already does give more rewards than Geyser and Dolmens for example.
    • What are your thoughts on the new Dragon crafting ingredients, and the new Alchemy effect?
      I notice that there was a new ingredient but did not play around

    PS: Dragons that showup in the south-east part (close to Sunspire) are summoning aoes in the mountain instead of in the ground where the players are. No, do not have pics because I was being attack by a dragon. =P
  • mingimingi
    mingimingi
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    Did the loot feel varied and useful?
    I think what might keep people returning past the initial excitement would be the possibility of a super rare mount/skin drop. Perhaps change the drops occasionally
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
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    One of the dragons landed in a temple with some Defense Force Warriors.

    I'm guessing this is some quest area.

    There at least a dozen NPCs standing around the dragon, talking and doing jumping jacks lol. They don't react to the dragon in any way, even if you start fighting it.

    At first I thought they were the dragon's minions, but they don't turn hostile either.

    Here is the scene and location:

    P3GoEgk.jpg

    q56v3sO.jpg

    Are the dragon landing locations completely random? If so, you might want to script them to avoid certain areas as it just looks silly to have NPCs standing around doing nothing.
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on April 18, 2019 7:24AM
  • Weps
    Weps
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    Were you able to find Dragons in Elsweyr?
    Yes, by constantly checking the map. An announcement or maybe having the population in the area affected by the dragon being in alert or running away ( and not only the few peeps at the landing site ) might help finding dragons more effectively.

    Did you find one at a distance and chase it down, or just stumble upon one?
    Both. But mainly chased them with the map when I had nothing else to do.

    Did you fight in a group or solo?
    Mostly random groups found on-site. I like the fact that they're absolutely not beginner friendly ( and since I don't have a controller on PC, my movements and ability to use the skills in the game are at a beginner level now ).
    Tho, I've heard about people soloing them and that, imho, should not happen or should be a very rare exception.

    What do you think the most dangerous things about Dragons are?
    Adds are deadly.

    Is this something you’re looking forward to when Elsweyr launches?
    More dragons. 3 spawn location are not enough, 6 like the Summerset geysers feel like a more interesting number.

    Did the loot from Dragons feel satisfying?
    Did the loot feel varied and useful?

    Not really, it's a dolmen level type of drop. Given the fact that they're considerably harder than a dolmen or a geyser, they should drop a little bit more materials / lootable objects. Perhaps even golden items with a good RNG, making people want to continuosly chase them over time, either to loot better objects or to make money.

    What are your thoughts on the new Dragon crafting ingredients, and the new Alchemy effect?
    Haven't tested them out yet. Coming from console, I don't have access to ESO+ on PTS so I don't have the craft bag and I find myself very limited when it comes down to space available with all the things I would like to test.
    The premises are good tho, I'm just wondering if having Minor Heroism easily accessible will create imbalances in the game.

    Do you have any other general feedback?
    MORE. DRAGONS.
    MORE.
    DRAGONS.
    And better loot, yeah.
    PS4 EU - CP 1000+ - EP Loyal

    My EU Preciouses
    Aemon Dk | Imperial Dragonknight Tank
    Guari Gaburiefu | PvP Stamplar - Soon PvE tank
    Nadija Zenobia | 45k+ PvE Dk - PvP Leaper
    Naga del Serpente | High Elf Magicka Sorc PVE DPS - Soon tb 2nd crafter
    Azor Ahai V | Dunmer Magicka DK for PVP and Pve
    Jabba D'Cat | Khajiit Stamplar
    Gennarino Auditore | 7k Weapon damage Bosmer Stamblade / Ganking experimental build
    Rina Inbasu | Dunmer Magblade, my bomblade
    Zelgadis Greywords | High Elf Magplar
    Nachael Jordan | Redguard Stamsorc DPS
    Orghuz Diul | StamWar DPS
    This-Will-Buff-If | Argonian Warden Trial Off tank
    Amelia Tesla Sallilune | Breton Magden PvP DD / PvE healer
    Sap-My-Shield | PvP Nooblade, now dead PvE Tank
  • Lord_Eomer
    Lord_Eomer
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    Weps wrote: »
    Were you able to find Dragons in Elsweyr?
    Yes, by constantly checking the map. An announcement or maybe having the population in the area affected by the dragon being in alert or running away ( and not only the few peeps at the landing site ) might help finding dragons more effectively.

    Did you find one at a distance and chase it down, or just stumble upon one?
    Both. But mainly chased them with the map when I had nothing else to do.

    Did you fight in a group or solo?
    Mostly random groups found on-site. I like the fact that they're absolutely not beginner friendly ( and since I don't have a controller on PC, my movements and ability to use the skills in the game are at a beginner level now ).
    Tho, I've heard about people soloing them and that, imho, should not happen or should be a very rare exception.

    What do you think the most dangerous things about Dragons are?
    Adds are deadly.

    Is this something you’re looking forward to when Elsweyr launches?
    More dragons. 3 spawn location are not enough, 6 like the Summerset geysers feel like a more interesting number.

    Did the loot from Dragons feel satisfying?
    Did the loot feel varied and useful?

    Not really, it's a dolmen level type of drop. Given the fact that they're considerably harder than a dolmen or a geyser, they should drop a little bit more materials / lootable objects. Perhaps even golden items with a good RNG, making people want to continuosly chase them over time, either to loot better objects or to make money.

    What are your thoughts on the new Dragon crafting ingredients, and the new Alchemy effect?
    Haven't tested them out yet. Coming from console, I don't have access to ESO+ on PTS so I don't have the craft bag and I find myself very limited when it comes down to space available with all the things I would like to test.
    The premises are good tho, I'm just wondering if having Minor Heroism easily accessible will create imbalances in the game.

    Do you have any other general feedback?
    MORE. DRAGONS.
    MORE.
    DRAGONS.
    And better loot, yeah.

    Dropping Golden Mats rarely can be another good reason to keep attractive dragons dragons hunting!
  • Elong
    Elong
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    Even approaching the dragon sitting in a field waiting to be hit on is a bit of a let down. Could there be combat music triggered before you engage? Could it be actively attacking the NPCs instead of sitting there like a lame duck?
  • Hjorth
    Hjorth
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    Were you able to find Dragons in Elsweyr?
    Yes, very easy.

    Did you find one at a distance and chase it down, or just stumble upon one?
    I followed it on the map.

    Did you fight in a group or solo?
    Group, solo did not end well.

    What do you think the most dangerous things about Dragons are?
    Their 180 fire breath.

    Is this something you’re looking forward to when Elsweyr launches?
    Yes very much.

    Did the loot from Dragons feel satisfying?
    It was fine, although I was disappointed to receive base game furniture recipes, and not the new ones from elsweyr.

    Did the loot feel varied and useful?
    Yes it was varied.

    What are your thoughts on the new Dragon crafting ingredients, and the new Alchemy effect?
    They are probably gonna suffer the same fate as Mother Pearl, meaning that will they be way to rar and expensive for anyone to use in potions.

    Do you have any other general feedback?
    As soon as there were a tank present to hold the dragon, it was a guaranteed victory, no matter how much everybody else screwed up.
    And when this update hits the live server, it will be very sad to see these dragons getting zerged down in 60 sec, but that will happen, because there are no mechanics that scales to the number of players attacking the dragon.
    Edited by Hjorth on April 21, 2019 1:43AM
  • Weps
    Weps
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    Elong wrote: »
    Even approaching the dragon sitting in a field waiting to be hit on is a bit of a let down. Could there be combat music triggered before you engage? Could it be actively attacking the NPCs instead of sitting there like a lame duck?

    ^ This
    PS4 EU - CP 1000+ - EP Loyal

    My EU Preciouses
    Aemon Dk | Imperial Dragonknight Tank
    Guari Gaburiefu | PvP Stamplar - Soon PvE tank
    Nadija Zenobia | 45k+ PvE Dk - PvP Leaper
    Naga del Serpente | High Elf Magicka Sorc PVE DPS - Soon tb 2nd crafter
    Azor Ahai V | Dunmer Magicka DK for PVP and Pve
    Jabba D'Cat | Khajiit Stamplar
    Gennarino Auditore | 7k Weapon damage Bosmer Stamblade / Ganking experimental build
    Rina Inbasu | Dunmer Magblade, my bomblade
    Zelgadis Greywords | High Elf Magplar
    Nachael Jordan | Redguard Stamsorc DPS
    Orghuz Diul | StamWar DPS
    This-Will-Buff-If | Argonian Warden Trial Off tank
    Amelia Tesla Sallilune | Breton Magden PvP DD / PvE healer
    Sap-My-Shield | PvP Nooblade, now dead PvE Tank
  • absolutxero
    absolutxero
    Soul Shriven
    Were you able to find Dragons in Elsweyr?
    Yes, the spawn points are clearly marked on the map.

    Did you find one at a distance and chase it down, or just stumble upon one?
    Once I saw one flying around as I ran over a bridge which was pretty epic. Every other time they've been sitting there waiting for someone to attack.

    Did you fight in a group or solo?
    Definitely a group, I'd say a minimum of around 7-8 people or else we easily wiped.

    What do you think the most dangerous things about Dragons are?
    Those wing swipes! The animation is very quick. I've learned to keep my distance as a squishy caster!

    Is this something you’re looking forward to when Elsweyr launches?
    Definitely!

    Did the loot from Dragons feel satisfying?
    Mostly, but receiving only 2-4 gold is pitiful.

    Did the loot feel varied and useful?
    Yep, similar to dolmens but with the added bonus of treasure to vendor.

    What are your thoughts on the new Dragon crafting ingredients, and the new Alchemy effect?
    I haven't done anything with them but they seem rare. Hopefully the potions/poisons they create will be really powerful.

    Do you have any other general feedback?
    It's hard to tell what the different dragon icons on the map mean. Sometimes it's flashing with swords, sometimes the name is in red. Usually when I go to any of the icons the dragon is already dead so I can't makes heads or tails over the icons.

    When they're not dead they're usually just sitting in one of 3 spawn points waiting to be attacked. Sometimes even the NPCs are wandering around like there's not a giant beast sitting there. It would be cooler to see them flying around their spawn location instead and have maybe them fly down to engage when players enter the "arena". It would also let people know when a dragon is up without having to constantly check the map. Elsweyr has beautiful vistas; let's see those dragon silhouettes in the sky!

    Lastly, sometimes the dragon's animations look choppy or stiff (wing swipe), the fire breath doesn't always sync up with the head movements, and occasionally the dragon will get stuck between transition phases and just kind of float there. Here's a link to a video with some of these issues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA3HFYrLqmE
  • absolutxero
    absolutxero
    Soul Shriven
    One more bit of feedback: the dragon's shouts should feel much more epic. A deeper, more ominous voice/boom/echo would really sell the effect.
  • stimpy986b14_ESO
    stimpy986b14_ESO
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    Were you able to find Dragons in Elsweyr?
    Yes they're shown fairly clearly on the map, though the zone has alot of verticality to it that made some of them difficult to get to (though I imagine this would be mitigated once I get a better lay of the land).
    Did you find one at a distance and chase it down, or just stumble upon one?
    Both
    Did you fight in a group or solo?
    Both, though I got roflstomped solo
    What do you think the most dangerous things about Dragons are?
    The fire breath. The telegraph is difficult to see and it one-shot me many times.
    Is this something you’re looking forward to when Elsweyr launches?
    Absolutely! The fights are a lot of fun.
    Did the loot from Dragons feel satisfying?
    Not really, though that could be chalked up to ***-poor RNG
    Did the loot feel varied and useful?
    See above, though I know there are cool things that can drop, I just didn't get any.
    What are your thoughts on the new Dragon crafting ingredients, and the new Alchemy effect?
    I'm sure it'll come in handy down the line but I haven't gotten a chance to experiment much with them
    Do you have any other general feedback?
    My only worry with dragon hunting is that in a year or two, few if any players will be doing it as most will have moved onto the next thing. It's extremely difficult at times to get a group for past DLC world bosses (or even base game world bosses in certain zones) a I feel this would be even worse considering they require much larger groups.
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    Dragon wings don't move and look fake.

    Fights felt boring with big groups...no threat.
  • Cireous
    Cireous
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    So I couldn't take it anymore and downloaded the PTS. Every inch of me needed to Dragon. Not a month from now, but Easter Sunday. Firstly, I just want to thank Rich and everyone for the dragons, for more challenging overland boss fights. For all of this. You have so much of my graditude. This is the type of gameplay I have always longed for in ESO. It's the one thing GuildWars 2 had over ESO. Keep up more of this type of content and, in conjunction with the gaping open wound GW2 is experiencing with their current and very public staffing struggles, having their customers feeling like there is little life left in the game beyond a few more living story seasons, you could shortly wipe them off the map as competition. At least for me.

    But onto the dragons! Before listing what I love about the dragons, I'll explain what could be better (which is congruent with what most others are saying, so I can't really provide much new information here). Please take my complaints lightly though, because they are minor in comparison to how much fun I am having with the content in the state it is in... right now.

    What could use improvement:
    • Not that I think this would be an easy change to make or even expect this change to occur, but I do agree with everyone that a sitting dragon is not a fun or epic way to encounter them. I would much prefer it if they remained in the sky until shot down by players. During the "chase the dragon" phase, I think the dragon should often (but not always) swoop down and fly close enough to us that we can reach him with our ranged attacks. Once a single person hits them, they should fly to their predetermined areas (which should be close by) and start murdering. If the player or players engaging in the fight die right away, the dragon should take off in flight again, ready to be chased. I killed approximately 12 dragons yesterday and not once did I encounter one in the sky. I'm not sure if they were bugged, or if the current chase phase is just incredibly short, but after spawning, by the time I mounted and located them, every one of them was already stationary and on the ground.
    • Variation. They all seem to have fire attacks, different fire attacks, but all fire. I would like to see different magical elements for different dragons; dragons with frost attacks and frost atronachs, lightening attacks, undead... anything, everything. Just something different than fire.
    • As cool as the dragon shouts are (and they are) it sounds like a guy named Bob is voice acting them. What I am saying is, they sound like a dude and not like a Dragon. It's almost comical. I'm sorry. *edit: Upon further research, they only sometimes sound like Bob. Some Dragon shouts sound as dragony as a Dragon can sound.

    What I loved:
    • How well these fights are tuned. For me, you could not have done a better job of tuning the dragons and their minions, both their health and damage. Even with a max level high CP character and a day of experience with dragons, I was still at risk for lots of dying. These battles are fairly epic and tense with 4 high CP players. With eight or more players of any type, the fight is almost comfortable but not so much that you're phoning it in. I think the length of these fights is perfect. They never felt too short or easy, even with 20 players showing up. What I love so much about content like this is that tanks and healers have a purpose now. A tank that shows up and TANKS the dragon is a hero. The healers are literally saving lives (and repair bills). This is not really true for any other overland content in the game (after more than one or two players show up to something). As someone who desperately wants to play a support role within open/unscheduled dynamic content, these dragon fights suit me like nothing else. I am so happy about this. Please make no significant changes here, especially nerfs.
    • The loot. Now, I am biased towards furnishing recipes in general, so take that for what its worth. I landed 2 blue and 3 green Elsweyr furnishing recipes and that's all I could ever want. I do hope that there is a chance at a half digested purple quality satchel, though. Getting a purple Elsweyr furnishing recipe would be a "make my day" kind of drop. I think a chance at a motif drop in one of these bags would be great also. Kind of like the rarity level of the Psijic motifs, I would be happy with a similar rarity level for purple satchels (please say they exist). If you don't plan on droping Elseweyr motifs in this way, please consider a chance at a random motif.
    • And, lastly, the fact that dragons in ESO even exist at all and how immersive they feel to fight. I don't think anyone saw this coming, both the dragons and finally giving us the challenging overland content we were looking for. I think you have done such an excellent job with what you set out to do here. Hunting dragons is incredibly addictive. I spent 10 hours doing it with no desire to stop. Sleep didn't matter, how early I needed to get up for work (granted, at home work) didn't matter. Watching Game of Thrones Ep.2 Season 8 before the internet spoiled it for me? That was the only thing that mattered, or I think I would still be playing. I had to stop to watch that, which is kind of fitting isn't it?
    • Come to think of it. Game of Thrones is ending just as the Season of Dragons is beginning in ESO. Thank you for replacing some of the void that will occur when the show ends with dragons that I, myself, can fight and loot. :relieved:

      So much fun ahead!
    Edited by Cireous on April 27, 2019 1:45AM
  • CP5
    CP5
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    So overall I enjoy the fights. Two big things that irk me are the conal attacks not lining up with their telegraphs and the flame atronach summon attack often causing all of them to attack one person at once which is more irritating than anything else. I will say it feels good fighting them but when you arrive its just a dragon sitting in a field waiting to fight, and while on the map at first it looks like you'll have to chase it somewhat (dragons shifting between different fields could be possible given how close some of the fighting areas are) but then when you realize after a few seconds the icon will sit firmly in one position it feels more like a glorified dolmen spawn. It would be nice if the dragon stayed airborne, say summoned a few adds that had to be killed first, then came in for the attack, would be a bit more fitting for them than to just sit there as you ride laps around them on your shadow rider passive mount.
  • Loves_guars
    Loves_guars
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    [*] Do you have any other general feedback?

    There's something odd about the music. It just doesn't start, so all the fight feels less epic. A special theme for dragons would be also nice.

    But overall, I love them! Nice voice and behaviour.
    Edited by Loves_guars on April 23, 2019 1:05AM
  • Dracheimflug
    Dracheimflug
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    I am rather new to ESO, so will likely be missing some concepts. On the other hand, I can give a new player's perspective... and been a fan of the franchise going right back to Arena :)

    Were you able to find Dragons in Elsweyr?

    Yes, as others have said, they are quite easy to find. Difficulty to reach in time to join the fight is a different question. That varies by location.

    Did you find one at a distance and chase it down, or just stumble upon one?

    In terms of seeing the marker on the map, I would have to say technically the former. That said I also stumbled across one before having gotten the quest to hunt them (and thus before seeing the marker).

    Did you fight in a group or solo?

    Both. As a low level character (was 5th first dragon encounter) there was no way I would try one solo. However later in the Battle for Riverhold I am apparently expected to solo one.... While the much higher level NPC's who make an impassioned speech about standing and fighting just stand there and watch!

    What do you think the most dangerous things about Dragons are?

    Toss up between the breath weapon and another attack that does two concentric circles. The latter does damage plus stun and then more damage. Since even at relatively low level I survive the first half of that combination attack, I suspect it will be less dangerous at higher level.

    Is this something you’re looking forward to when Elsweyr launches?

    Mostly, although I hope that both the locations and the triggering become more dynamic and the fights are less frequent. We are expected (by the daily) to take down three dragons per day! That will likely get tired fast.

    Did the loot from Dragons feel satisfying? Did the loot feel varied and useful?

    Again mostly. I do not understand the 'treasure' items... that look really useful or look like they should be housing items but really seem to be just additional merchant fodder all designed to clutter already limited inventory space.

    What are your thoughts on the new Dragon crafting ingredients, and the new Alchemy effect?

    Finding ingredients generally seems a lot harder than in other regions of Tamriel, so not done that much with alchemy yet, and not built up crafting skills to look to see what I can do with other dragon parts yet.

    Do you have any other general feedback?

    Again, killing 3 dragons per day seems a bit excessive plot wise. And why is the quest to kill them being given in Rimmen, a city supposedly controlled and oppressed by a foreign Queen who is supposedly allied with the dragons we are being sent to kill?
  • Kamchuk
    Kamchuk
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    ZOS, Gina,

    Tested the dragon fights again after your request for testing between 2-4 EDT. It appears to be better. The dragon moved around a little more and the damage dealt was higher. We had a small group (8 -12) and it took us a while to kill it. It was more engaging and required a group of us - which is good. The rewards for killing it were lame. I never criticize without making suggestion though. I think that killing a dragon should be a real draw to all levels of players for quite a while. The way to do that is to make the challenge great and the rewards greater. My recommendations are: rare mats, legendary equipment, extraordinary experience points, and/or huge amounts of gold. Any combination of these to keep new and old players coming back for more.
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