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Balance through BUFFS instead of NERFS

  • GreenSoup2HoT
    GreenSoup2HoT
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    Other (type in comment)
    A game that doesn't own up to their mistakes (with nerfs) cant move forward and pave a road with only buffs. Why is it when only a couple of issues are OP people call for buffs to everything else but those couple things. Nerfs are just as necessary as Buffs. Its just the frequency that matters most. ZOS is like 20//80 nerfs//buffs. Just the nerfs are generally MASSIVE but the buffs minuscule.
    PS4 NA DC
  • Sirona_Starr
    Sirona_Starr
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    I have more than two pvp chars and I want ballance through buffs.
    IronWooshu wrote: »
    What fairy tale is this idea from? We already have power creep, if we keep buffing everything up we will have MORE power creep.

    If you feel power creep is an issue, play without cp, or great gear. You won't feel so powerful then........ unless, you are meaning you don't have them yet, and want to bring everyone down to your level. Buffing could be changing useless skills into some useful counter skills to skills that players love, and give more useful choices. So many useless skills in this game. Nerfing everything at one point or another, for one thing or another, just makes unhappy players and continues to make the number of usable or fun skills/armour less and less.
  • FierceSam
    FierceSam
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    I don’t have any PvP characters (my characters all do both PvP and PvE)

    Balance isn’t either nerf or buff, it’s a clever blend of the two.

    Nerfing is a much easier solution to perceived imbalance. It deals succinctly with the problem that “class X or skill Y is too OP”. The only downside is that it’s very obvious when only one skill/class/ability has been altered. It’s the nail that sticks out being hammered down.

    Buffing many other elements to compensate for a perceived single build/skill superiority is way more complicated to theorise and implement. It opens up the possibility of power creep as well as unforeseen consequences and complex interactions between the many elements that are being buffed. Buffing is being done, there was quite a bit of it in the last update, but if it’s done right it will be much less obvious than nerfing.
  • Browiseth
    Browiseth
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    why the specification of pvp? according to zos and their balance mentality, we're all playing the same game
    skingrad when zoscharacters:
    • EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
    • EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
    • EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
    PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe
  • Kidgangster101
    Kidgangster101
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    Browiseth wrote: »
    why the specification of pvp? according to zos and their balance mentality, we're all playing the same game

    Because one version of the game you fight against humanity players and the other you face against AI and AI can be very easily manipulated. Some of these dungeons and trials (unless you are going for vet scores) are some of the easiest pve content in any mmo game I've ever played. You don't need to be overpowered to beat this content but if you are overpowered against another player they feel it. That's the difference the npc is there to be beat where the human player wants to actually participate in pvp. If moves were not nerfed and buffed instead everyone would die in .1 seconds lol.
  • HappyLittleTree
    HappyLittleTree
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    Balance should be done by balancing booth by buffing and nerfing. if we keep on buffing they have to revamp every content in the game so you won't be the all powerfull vestige that can 1shot every mob.
    Thuu chakkuth lod Hajhiit c’oo? Hajhiit gortsuquth gorihuth thuu gooluthduj thdeitoluu!

    XBox-EU
  • Iluvrien
    Iluvrien
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    Perfect balance is a myth.

    The nerf/buff cycle will never end as long as competitive content exists.
  • kongkim
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    If you have one skill that over performe. You change that skill. You dont buff all others..

    Its too much work, and too many change to balance it that way.
    Edited by kongkim on April 19, 2019 8:27AM
  • r34lian
    r34lian
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    Don't have any pvp character so don't care :trollface:
    2000 CP • 18 Maxed Characters • 6 Altmers • 7 Redguards • Necromancer Orc • Warden Dunmer • DK Nord • DK Imperial • Templar Breton
  • DarkerDreams
    DarkerDreams
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    Nerfs and buffs but in very small moderation, not their current method of using a sledge hammer on everything.
    Lets take my stamblade PvP bosmer assassin. Took away the extra damage from stealth and the reduced detection radius last patch and now this patch they nerf snipe, surprise attack, incap, and grim focus. So basically they used a huge sledge hammer on anyone who enjoyed playing an assassin. Might as well just be a brawler now...
  • Victor_Blade
    Victor_Blade
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    I have a single level 50 character (high elf magblade) that I use for both pvp and pve. Managed to hit cp550 and now the only character I have got nerfed to the ground.
  • Undefwun
    Undefwun
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    Every patch nerf nerf nerf nerf... oh wait.. but dmg keeps going up.. and time to kill keeps going down... so somehow not really nerfed...

    e.g stamblade needed a down tune.. if you brought everyone else up... time to kill goes down.

    Then ppl will find a way to get even tankier.
    You end up with super high damage dealers and mega tanks... anything in between has no shot.
    Because not enough defense to survive the big dmg and not enough dmg to take down the tanks...
    Drank Sinatra Sr - PvP Magblade - DC
    Juggathot - PvP Mag Sorc - DC
    Jedi Mind Crits - PvP A-Hole Bowblade - DC
    Dollar Store Thor - PvP Stamplar - DC
    The Bone Sumpremacy - baby Stamcro - DC
    Wârden Freeman - PvP Stamden - DC (on hold)
    Lauryn Heal - PvE Magplar DPS - DC

    Lil Orc Chop - PvP Stam Sorc - EP
    Hamuel L Jackson - PvE DPS & PvP Stam DK - EP
    Chandler Bling - PvP Magden - EP

    Mahalia Lightborn - exiled crafting toon - cos you know, she's AD
  • Ladislao
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    I have more than two pvp chars and I want ballance through nerfs.
    Of course, it is preferable to balance through both buffs and nerfs. But in general nerfs are better because they don't add a powercreep and usually it is much easier to nerf one overperforming thing than buff the rest.
    Everything is viable
  • NeillMcAttack
    NeillMcAttack
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    Other (type in comment)
    Needs an option for,
    “I understand the meaning of the word balance and as such know that it will at times require versions of both nerfs and buffs in specific areas”
    PC EU - NoCP PvP, is real PvP
    Tiidehunter Nord StamDK EP PvP Main
    Legion Commander Tresdin Stamplar DC PvE Main
    Sephirith Altmer MagPlar EP Gondar the Bounty Hunter Khajiit StamBlade DC
    The Dirge Redguard StamNecro EP Disruptor Stormcrafter Nord StamSorc AD
    Lone Druid Bosmer Stam Warden EP Necro-Phos Argonian MagBlade AD
    @ McAttack in game
    Played since beta, and then on console at release, until the game became unplayable on console.
  • jbjondeaueb17_ESO
    jbjondeaueb17_ESO
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    Buffs and Nerfs don't only apply to PvP, that's a biased poll.
    PvE dps is going so high that healers and tanks are becoming less and less relevant, which means if you only adjust with buffs the situation would be even worse.
    And some skills always were "overcharged" compare to the majority of the other skills, I don't think it would be healthy for the game to have a lot of skills providing too much. On the other hand some skills were lacking and needed a bit of love (it's still the case for several skills btw).
    Pain-Healer - Argonian Templar Healer (EP) - Immortal Redeemer - Gryphon's Heart
    Guild : Ghosts and Goblins Target Dummies
    Players know me as Jeban
  • Red_Feather
    Red_Feather
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    Nerfing is about killing the effectiveness of skills. Like turning a stone club into a nerf club. There is no need to ever do that, because a skill can be made effective as something less gamebreaking instead.
  • Rev Rielle
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    I have more than two pvp chars and I want ballance through nerfs.
    How I understand it:

    For PvP, striving for balance across classes is what's primarily important. How it's achieved (i.e. just buffs, just nerfs or both) is largely irrelevant. However, and it's a big however, TTK (time to kill) guidelines should always be kept in mind: You don't want it taking commonly 1-2 second to kill an opposition, but you also don't want it always taking a minute.

    For PvE, keeping balance with the environment (Overland PvE, Group PvE, and Trial PvE) is important. Here it's critically important not to over-buff classes over the long-term (which arguably is unfortunately what has happened). Otherwise enemies become extremely trivial to kill and the combat hence becomes less engaging and resultantly boring. And a boring game only leads players away over time.

    ESO combines PvP and PvE under the same umbrella, so working for balance you need to keep both in mind constantly. No wonder it is not easy, but one thing is clear enough; just buffs, or just nerfs, is not the answer. However, I feel PvE is so trivial at the moment mainly nerfs are needed (for a while at least) to bring things back towards balance.
    Edited by Rev Rielle on April 19, 2019 11:17AM
    If you can be anything, be kind.
  • InvictusApollo
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    I have more than two pvp chars and I want ballance through buffs.
    Alucardo wrote: »
    Alucardo wrote: »
    I prefer buffs, but there are some instances where things NEED to be toned down, for example Nightblades. Do you think buffing them would have been a better option? If you say yes then I'm afraid you're wrong.
    However, looking at the food nerf (ie: Artaeum, Dubious/Witchmother's), I would have preferred they somehow buffed the more undesirable foods/drinks rather than nerfing these ones.

    Or, other classes get buffs to better counter, rather than a nerf to one. It's the same principle that you mentioned in the food - NO one wants the food nerf. Buff some other foods to match with different combos.

    Abilities like incap were severely overloaded. With both major defile and 20% increased damage, it was incredibly difficult to recover from such an attack. Pair that with major fracture from their primary spammable and it's no wonder there was so much crying about nbs.
    How do you suggest they buff my stam sorc to counter such brutality? I have no increased healing, I have no purge, I have no cloak. If I attempt to streak they will just gap close to finish me off.
    Trust me, I've been asking for buffs to my class for years to no avail. If they want to tone down nightblades instead I'll take whatever I can get.

    Actually out of all aof my pvp characters, my stamsorc build is going to get a huge damage buff in Elsweyr. Every other magicka char will get either a small nerf or a huge that will make it unplayable (my ranged magblade would need to switch into melee in order to keep damage while having much lower survivalability).
  • Jameliel
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    The constant nerfing sucks the fun out of "every" aspect of the game. They are even nerfing food. Enough is enough. Buff things or leave them the hell alone and add other skills/gear/SOMETHING to "balance". There can never be a "balance" that is perceived as such by everyone. As it stands now, zos is alienating those intelligent enough players who aren't outright addicts. A large number of noobs find out fast how annoying and pointless it is to try certain classes and builds in an ever-increasing number of scenarios.

    As I've already stated, the game is simply becoming less and less fun. Whoever is in charge of all these nerf-decisions has proven time and again they are incompetent when it comes to understanding the game, or even a large portion of we the players. If only one person who has the power would take notice and replace them with some real talent, the game could improve immensely. I honestly cannot figure out how these people still have their jobs. The marketing team is undoubtedly fantastic at their job. A lot of the customer service staff are also wonderful at their jobs. The thing is, the marketing team have loads of people buying the game and investing time and money into it. Whoever is in charge of skill/gear/class nerfing or buffing are running the actual game-play into the dirt. These people are truly a malignant tumor to the game and need to be cut out(the first analogy that comes to mind).
    Edited by Jameliel on April 19, 2019 11:40AM
  • InvictusApollo
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    I have more than two pvp chars and I want ballance through buffs.
    Hmmm I thought it was obvious that I mean "mainly through buffs/nerfs" as it is now done mainly through nerfs. Pure buffs/nerfs would be stupid.
  • logarifmik
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    How about a balance through actual BALANCE? And split PvE and PvP already.
    EU PC: @logarifmik | Languages: Русский, English
    Dimitri Frernis | Breton Sorcerer | Damage Dealer | Daggerfall Covenant
    Scales-of-Ice | Argonian Warden | Tank / Healer | Daggerfall Covenant
  • Ermiq
    Ermiq
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    I have 1 PvP char, and I believe balance is made by both buffs and nerfs.
    And I see in every patch that there're both buffs and nerfs. I find this "ZOS likes to nerf everything" mindset so childish, to be honest. When I see someone complaining about "they just nerf things", I know the guy doesn't understand what is the balance, doesn't know what is power creep, and doesn't know how do MMORPGs work.
    Edited by Ermiq on April 19, 2019 2:07PM
    One of the two of us definitely has gone mad. It only remains to define whether this one is the whole world or just me.

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    Sick&tired of being kicked off from your house when you complete a dungeon? ComingBackHome addon is what you need!
    Me is russian little bad in english :b
  • Trensharo
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    Balancing through buffs leads to "Power Creep," which inevitably throws things even out of balance. Think of all the content that they'd need to rebalance simply because people who don't understand MMORPG design think they should be immune from nerfs.

    Nerfs are necessary. Deal with them. Adapt, or find a Facebook game to play.
  • Trensharo
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    Trensharo wrote: »
    Balancing through buffs leads to "Power Creep," which inevitably throws things even out of balance. Think of all the content that they'd need to rebalance simply because people who don't understand MMORPG design think they should be immune from nerfs.

    Nerfs are necessary. Deal with them. Adapt, or find a Facebook game to play.

    meant to say "... which inevitably throws things even more out of balance."

    Can't edit a post here? That's weak...
  • Alex_Lex
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    I have more than two pvp chars and I want ballance through buffs.
    Buff me!
    Nerf others!
    EU: Beatrice gra-Brog, Rebellie, Yshterie, Jearra , Lirielline
    Christess, Fleuretta, Jubilee Cake, Braviliana, Onyxette
    M'adjirra, Dances-around-Nirn, Nerieth, Estrice, Ann der Wood
    Éternelle, Burns-all-the-babies, Jyggurag
    NA: Dice Twice, Nikka from the barrel
  • stevenyaub16_ESO
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    You know its easier to nerf one thing than it is to buff 10 others?
  • mocap
    mocap
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    Every single patch we get nerfs
    and yet high-end dps gets higher from year to year.
    2016 was 35-40k
    2017 was 40-50k
    2018 was 50-60k
    2019 500k :trollface:

    how can you explain this?
  • Ermiq
    Ermiq
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    Other (type in comment)
    @Trensharo
    Trensharo wrote: »
    Can't edit a post here? That's weak...

    There is the gear icon to the left of the time stamp (which is located to the right of your post). It requires page update because the gear icon doesn't appear lately. This bug occured like a week ago.
    Edited by Ermiq on April 19, 2019 7:22PM
    One of the two of us definitely has gone mad. It only remains to define whether this one is the whole world or just me.

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    Sick&tired of being kicked off from your house when you complete a dungeon? ComingBackHome addon is what you need!
    Me is russian little bad in english :b
  • Girl_Number8
    Girl_Number8
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    I have more than two pvp chars and I want ballance through buffs.
    Alucardo wrote: »
    I prefer buffs, but there are some instances where things NEED to be toned down, for example Nightblades. Do you think buffing them would have been a better option? If you say yes then I'm afraid you're wrong.
    However, looking at the food nerf (ie: Artaeum, Dubious/Witchmother's), I would have preferred they somehow buffed the more undesirable foods/drinks rather than nerfing these ones.

    Magblades needed a buff and I am not wrong about that.

    I do play every class but doing PvP without a burst heal when you 1 v X or 2 v X is a *** move on Zos's part and I won't even go into the heal that they gave that should of been kept as an attack. I am talking about using the morph of 'dark cloak' where everybody can see you 100% of the time. Magblades are not a crutch class in the least like a lot of others.

    They nerfed everything together like a kid with a hammer, smacking away without looking at the consequences as usual, not separating the stamblade from the magblade.

    Zos's idea of balance is to nerf the weakest PvP class into death, that needed a buff. They just lump everything together because all they give **** about is selling the Necro, just like the Warden. Balance is money to Zos, plain and simple. They certainly don't play their game and they seem to take only the feedback that they want to sell the Necro. Rather then make a better game through tweaking things, as where the classes would be on better footing with each other, providing a more exciting game play experience....for most people. :*
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    If you want balance, you need to come at things from both ends. I have 15 toons, 3 of each class, and I play them all from time to time. Sometimes you need to buff things, other times, you need to nerf.

    If all you do is buff, you end up with out of control power creep.

    if all you do is nerf, you end up with a pissed off playerbase.

    As with most things, the answer lies somewhere in the middle.
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