Balance through BUFFS instead of NERFS

InvictusApollo

Every single patch we get nerfs. People whine on forums about anything that ever killed them. They don't care about others. We get skilless, inexperienced, ignorant people calling for nerfs on everything. In my mind those people should have no influence whatsoever but since we have the "no ridicule" rule, we can't really stop them from spreading blatantly ignorant ideas.
Recently these ideas have led to massive nerfs in pvp.

Do you like your character/build/gamestyle getting massively nerfed?
No? Guess what - no one likes. This whole nerf cycle only makes people feel bad. We literally lose joy from playing since every patch we lose something.

Sure some things might be better than others or even overpowered. But if we keep nerfing, then more and more people will lose enjoyment.

What if instead of balancing game though nerfs, it was balanced through buffs?
We wouldn't feel loss and instead we would feel more powerfull and able to counter other powerfull abilities.

dazee

Ideally balance through both, but nerfs only when absolutely necessary. some seem to believe nerfs are the answer to everything.

coop500

Other (type in comment)

I don't have any PVP characters but I'm sick of nerfs anyway... Like why did werewolves get a nerf? Oh yes, PVP whiners....

Kikke

Other (type in comment)

I have 9/16 characters, and I'm all for balancing with buffs AND nerfs. as that is how we do it, how it's always been done, and the way it's going to continue.

So, lets do you're imaginary 'balancing' proposal eh? Firstly dmg gets buffed because people complain about not killing anything. then defense will be buffed so people can survive this increased damage, one dmg and defense is increased enough we need to buff healing so it can keep up with defense.

Now you got increased dmg, increased defense and increased healing. Now what has changed? Nothing. Well! we increased X class damage with abit to much to the rest of the dmg classes feels left behind, lets buff them on par with X. now we need to buff defense and healing yet again.

This cycle goes on and on and on for a while. . .

And now everyone and their mother walks trough any veteran hardmode content without ever dropping under 90% health, and oneshotting everything while being naked... GG you broke the game.

Emmagoldman

Other (type in comment)

Both nerfs and buffs

The reality is, as they add more variety in classes or weapons, it will require shifting abilities, nerfs and buffs and It’s the direction I’d like to see.

Vapirko

There will much more rarely be balance through buffs due to the need to control power creep.

Lab3360

I have more than two pvp chars and I want ballance through buffs.

coop500 wrote: »

I don't have any PVP characters but I'm sick of nerfs anyway... Like why did werewolves get a nerf? Oh yes, PVP whiners....

Wait...they nerfed Werewolves too?

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

this thread in a more interesting way.

Imperial_Voice

Other (type in comment)

No option for people who have 3 or 4 of both pvp and pve characters?

teejkapow

I have less than three pvp chars and I want ballance through buffs.

If something is op, leave it alone. Nerf them in other ways to compensate. All classes should be op, then nobody is

Tigerseye

I have less than three pvp chars and I want ballance through buffs.

Sure, buff it - it's all the same, in the end, as long as you balance it.

If buffing the worse classes/builds/skills/races makes people happier, rather than leads them to despair (as nerfing the best classes/builds/skills/races does), then do it that way.

Personally, I'm currently more interested in balance in PVE, rather than in PVP (as I don't PVP here, or anywhere else at the moment), but the same fundamental principles tend to hold true in any game/game mode.

AcadianPaladin

I have less than three pvp chars and I want ballance through buffs.

What I see from the current 'system' is understandable animosity between the PvE and PvP communities. Given how such things as heavy armor, crit damage, cc work I have always found it absurd to cling to the failed concept of balancing PvE and PvP together. They are two completely separate games and should be balanced accordingly.

Alucardo

I prefer buffs, but there are some instances where things NEED to be toned down, for example Nightblades. Do you think buffing them would have been a better option? If you say yes then I'm afraid you're wrong.
However, looking at the food nerf (ie: Artaeum, Dubious/Witchmother's), I would have preferred they somehow buffed the more undesirable foods/drinks rather than nerfing these ones.

Halcyon_blue

I have more than two pvp chars and I want ballance through nerfs.

Flawed poll makes non-mutually exclusive options ... mutually exclusive, implying a single strategy that ultimate reverts to everything using unarmed combat with 1 ability, or else everyone essentially playing counterstrike with 1 hit headshots.

Productive and nuanced. Carry on.

coop500

Other (type in comment)

Lab3360 wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

I don't have any PVP characters but I'm sick of nerfs anyway... Like why did werewolves get a nerf? Oh yes, PVP whiners....

Wait...they nerfed Werewolves too?

In a way, yes. The bleed on light attacks won't tick right away anymore, so a good loss of damage there...

Marcus684

Read the PTS patch notes, or just about any patch notes put out in this game. They usually buff some things and nerf others, but people just like to whine about nerfs to their favorite builds.

DirtyDeeds765

I have more than two pvp chars and I want ballance through buffs.

They need to develop a good, workable standard for what balance is. And rework what needs reworked in accordance with that.

CP5

Its amusing to me that people don't seem to grasp that in order to balance something you need to tone down things that are over-performing just as much as buff things that are under-performing. Just buffing everything only leads to number inflation.

Sirona_Starr

I have more than two pvp chars and I want ballance through buffs.

Alucardo wrote: »

I prefer buffs, but there are some instances where things NEED to be toned down, for example Nightblades. Do you think buffing them would have been a better option? If you say yes then I'm afraid you're wrong.
However, looking at the food nerf (ie: Artaeum, Dubious/Witchmother's), I would have preferred they somehow buffed the more undesirable foods/drinks rather than nerfing these ones.

Or, other classes get buffs to better counter, rather than a nerf to one. It's the same principle that you mentioned in the food - NO one wants the food nerf. Buff some other foods to match with different combos.

Gilvoth

Other (type in comment)

myself and many others have made threads just like these, it does not get listened to and they keep asking for nerfs and spaming nerf request threads.

JinMori

Buffs are generally better.

Alucardo

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I prefer buffs, but there are some instances where things NEED to be toned down, for example Nightblades. Do you think buffing them would have been a better option? If you say yes then I'm afraid you're wrong.
However, looking at the food nerf (ie: Artaeum, Dubious/Witchmother's), I would have preferred they somehow buffed the more undesirable foods/drinks rather than nerfing these ones.

Or, other classes get buffs to better counter, rather than a nerf to one. It's the same principle that you mentioned in the food - NO one wants the food nerf. Buff some other foods to match with different combos.

Abilities like incap were severely overloaded. With both major defile and 20% increased damage, it was incredibly difficult to recover from such an attack. Pair that with major fracture from their primary spammable and it's no wonder there was so much crying about nbs.
How do you suggest they buff my stam sorc to counter such brutality? I have no increased healing, I have no purge, I have no cloak. If I attempt to streak they will just gap close to finish me off.
Trust me, I've been asking for buffs to my class for years to no avail. If they want to tone down nightblades instead I'll take whatever I can get.

Kiralyn2000

Other (type in comment)

I don't pvp at all, and I want PvE and PvP "balance" to be separated. So that whatever they do to the pvpers (buffs or nerfs), doesn't screw with PvE.


(Also, trying to do the impossible task of "balancing" pvp via buffing things, seems like it would just lead to an ever-increasing spiral of power. Buff A - whoops, B is weak, buff B - whoops, now C is weak, buff C - whoops, now D is weak, buff D - back to A and repeat ad nauseum. Since there will neverbe "balance" in MMO pvp.)

Tigerseye

I have less than three pvp chars and I want ballance through buffs.

CP5 wrote: »

Its amusing to me that people don't seem to grasp that in order to balance something you need to tone down things that are over-performing just as much as buff things that are under-performing. Just buffing everything only leads to number inflation.

Yes, I think most of us know that, but some people care about their numbers a lot...

Therefore, from a psychological perspective, it is normally easier to balance by increasing the effectiveness of the worst things, rather than decreasing the effectiveness of the better ones.

I, personally, couldn't give a cr*p about numbers, as long as my class/race/skill/cp point choices are all equally viable and in line with everyone else's.

AcadianPaladin

I have less than three pvp chars and I want ballance through buffs.

So how long does it take to balance a game? Isn't 5 years of frequent changes more than enough time? I can see a couple balance passes for the original classes over their first year or so. And I can see a balance pass or two for the warden during its first year. Same with the Necrodude class. But I've been playing for over a couple years now and seen lots of balance updates. Thing is, the game was not balanced two years ago, nor is it balanced now, nor will it be balanced after the next patch of the month. Just leaving the darn game alone would result in exactly the same situation (unbalanced game) but without all the drama and without forcing folks who have had a gutfull of 'adapting' to 'adapt'.

urthsong

Other (type in comment)

ESO should continue with both buffs and nerfs. People make most noise about nerfs, creating false perception that all balancing is done using that approach, which simply isn't true.

Marcus684

People who only want buffs are probably in 2 categories: PvEers that are obsessed with squeezing every last digit out of their DPS numbers, and gankblades that want to insta-kill other players. The rest of us accept that sometimes something is overperforming and needs to be toned down.

mcagatayg

I have more than two pvp chars and I want ballance through buffs.

Alucardo wrote: »

I prefer buffs, but there are some instances where things NEED to be toned down, for example Nightblades. Do you think buffing them would have been a better option? If you say yes then I'm afraid you're wrong.
However, looking at the food nerf (ie: Artaeum, Dubious/Witchmother's), I would have preferred they somehow buffed the more undesirable foods/drinks rather than nerfing these ones.

They are talking about buffing other classes, instead of nerfing nightblade.

IronWooshu

Other (type in comment)

What fairy tale is this idea from? We already have power creep, if we keep buffing everything up we will have MORE power creep.

Sirona_Starr

I have more than two pvp chars and I want ballance through buffs.

Alucardo wrote: »

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I prefer buffs, but there are some instances where things NEED to be toned down, for example Nightblades. Do you think buffing them would have been a better option? If you say yes then I'm afraid you're wrong.
However, looking at the food nerf (ie: Artaeum, Dubious/Witchmother's), I would have preferred they somehow buffed the more undesirable foods/drinks rather than nerfing these ones.

Or, other classes get buffs to better counter, rather than a nerf to one. It's the same principle that you mentioned in the food - NO one wants the food nerf. Buff some other foods to match with different combos.

Abilities like incap were severely overloaded. With both major defile and 20% increased damage, it was incredibly difficult to recover from such an attack. Pair that with major fracture from their primary spammable and it's no wonder there was so much crying about nbs.
How do you suggest they buff my stam sorc to counter such brutality? I have no increased healing, I have no purge, I have no cloak. If I attempt to streak they will just gap close to finish me off.
Trust me, I've been asking for buffs to my class for years to no avail. If they want to tone down nightblades instead I'll take whatever I can get.

I guess what I'm saying is, every class has a crap skill or two (or many) no one uses. Guild skills do as well. Buff some of the useless/pointless skills into some kind of counter skill - then there is a choice to slot them as a counter instead of some kind of nerf to a skill that people like to use. I've got a nerfed magwarden, (oh, my bear), nerfed Wood Elf, etc. I truly believe there are a lot of skills that are completely useless or rarely used. Make them a usable choice as a counter. I have many toons that have over 80 unused skill points - because why make two crafters, as an example? The skill pool they have to choose from is pretty much set. Nerf those skills, and the toon becomes storage because there are no better skills to pick from. Buffing rarely used skills to provide a counter choice is much better than nerfing the loved skills by each class/race.

Kidgangster101

Kikke wrote: »

I have 9/16 characters, and I'm all for balancing with buffs AND nerfs. as that is how we do it, how it's always been done, and the way it's going to continue.

So, lets do you're imaginary 'balancing' proposal eh? Firstly dmg gets buffed because people complain about not killing anything. then defense will be buffed so people can survive this increased damage, one dmg and defense is increased enough we need to buff healing so it can keep up with defense.

Now you got increased dmg, increased defense and increased healing. Now what has changed? Nothing. Well! we increased X class damage with abit to much to the rest of the dmg classes feels left behind, lets buff them on par with X. now we need to buff defense and healing yet again.

This cycle goes on and on and on for a while. . .

And now everyone and their mother walks trough any veteran hardmode content without ever dropping under 90% health, and oneshotting everything while being naked... GG you broke the game.

Couldn't have said it better myself lol

People need to realize that nerfs need to happen so we don't get every class over performing and at some point the game will be so easy you can stand in any move and not die..... Where is the fun in that?

And in pvp where is the fun in never ending battles? I'm all for skilled matches that take a bit longer between veteren players but never ending? Yeah please no lol