DragonKnight without Wings...

Patro · April 2019

I would like to have an opinion from someone like me who has tried magicka DK against other players on PTS.
I think the 50% reduction of projectiles damage is not enough to compensate for the wings nerf.
Magicka DK has no effective class ranged skills and his gap closer (Fiery Grip) is unusable because it gives cc immunity to the opponent.
Every ranged class abble to stay distant now puts the magicka DK in great difficulty.

jeedrzej · April 2019

How about empowering chains...?

Apxac · April 2019

You have a little huge gain all the other abilities? In addition, using the wings, you reduce the damage from the shells by 50%. This is all the damage of the same magblade that will never kill you if you are not a hamster. The class feels great now.

Patro · April 2019

jeedrzej wrote: »

How about empowering chains...?

Chains give free cc immunity.

caperon · April 2019

Patro wrote: »

jeedrzej wrote: »

How about empowering chains...?

Chains give free cc immunity.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Empowering chains is the gap closer morph, it doesn't pull the enemy it pulls you to the target and gives you 2 empower stacks. You can follow it up with fossilize without any issue. I do it constantly.

ccmedaddy · April 2019

Patro wrote: »

jeedrzej wrote: »

How about empowering chains...?

Chains give free cc immunity.

Pretty sure Empowering Chains doesn't. The other morph does, however.

Patro · April 2019

Maybe I confused it with the other morph.

Minalan · April 2019

caperon wrote: »

Patro wrote: »

jeedrzej wrote: »

How about empowering chains...?

Chains give free cc immunity.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Empowering chains is the gap closer morph, it doesn't pull the enemy it pulls you to the target and gives you 2 empower stacks. You can follow it up with fossilize without any issue. I do it constantly.

Apparently because you have two thumbs.

The window lickers will never be happy with the absolute power House theyve been handed with DK this patch.

Patro · April 2019

I just opened this thread to get opinions from those who tried the magicka DK on PTS and not to have silly comments.

cpuScientist · April 2019

Patro wrote: »

I just opened this thread to get opinions from those who tried the magicka DK on PTS and not to have silly comments.

Well empowering chains is the answer to dealing with range. You gap close to them and then fight as usual. With the buff to chain range you can chase down anyone. Unless you let a mag sorc streak 3 times before you used it you'll easily stay on top of them, and streak costs more than chains.

satanio · April 2019

Yop, Wings morph with 2sec snare imunnity is useless.
Use Race Against Time, that is your gap closer.

Morph wings to spell that shoot fireballs. Use them only in case there's too many rangeds.

MartiniDaniels · April 2019

caperon wrote: »

Patro wrote: »

jeedrzej wrote: »

How about empowering chains...?

Chains give free cc immunity.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Empowering chains is the gap closer morph, it doesn't pull the enemy it pulls you to the target and gives you 2 empower stacks. You can follow it up with fossilize without any issue. I do it constantly.

In case it's 1v1 or similar. If not, previously you could come closer clapping wings and start dealing damage from optimal position, using 7m range advantage. Yes, sorc's curse, restostaves etc, but still much of incoming firepower was disabled. Now empowering chains will deliver your unprotected body in crosshair of several people and they will just throw cc and melt you in second, if they are not some random guys in PVE gear who just came to BG/Cyro for some AP.

caperon · April 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Patro wrote: »

jeedrzej wrote: »

How about empowering chains...?

Chains give free cc immunity.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Empowering chains is the gap closer morph, it doesn't pull the enemy it pulls you to the target and gives you 2 empower stacks. You can follow it up with fossilize without any issue. I do it constantly.

In case it's 1v1 or similar. If not, previously you could come closer clapping wings and start dealing damage from optimal position, using 7m range advantage. Yes, sorc's curse, restostaves etc, but still much of incoming firepower was disabled. Now empowering chains will deliver your unprotected body in crosshair of several people and they will just throw cc and melt you in second, if they are not some random guys in PVE gear who just came to BG/Cyro for some AP.

Im not discussing about the change on wings, i was correcting the op in the wrong believe that all chain morphs give free cc inmunity.

About the change itself, 50% dmg reduction can be better than the live version if you are heavily outnumbered, but you will eat all the clench and scatter shots in the world and other statuses so i don't like the change personally.

Zophix · April 2019

To answer the OP's question. I played a few BG's on the PTS yesterday where it wasn't all necromancers. The wings felt absolutely useless. I hardly noticed the 50% damage reduction, because most of the projectiles that were being used were for debuffs and not damage.

I tried both versions of wings. I started with Dragon Fire Scale but quickly changed to Protective Plate because there were not enough projectiles for the function to be useful or reliable. The damage on the ability is nice 4k-6k tooltip depending on stats. Protective Plate is just like wings on live, only without the reflect function. Ultimately dropped wings from my bar to slot Race Against Time and ended up feeling like less of a Dragonknight.

I didn't go up against a single NB or Snipe spammer. I think a Magicka NB would be the only situation where I would notice the damage reduction from wings.

JumpmanLane · April 2019

You don’t need a gap closer on MagDk. Let them come to you. Use some kind of Destro staff for range. And 50% damage reduction on all projectiles is a buff 1vX. 1v1 I’ll take my chances.

Magsorcs don’t kite at range. They run. NB’s cloak. Use detect pots and volatile armor to pull them out of cloak. Ezpz

Blinkin8r · April 2019

Patro wrote: »

I would like to have an opinion from someone like me who has tried magicka DK against other players on PTS.
I think the 50% reduction of projectiles damage is not enough to compensate for the wings nerf.
Magicka DK has no effective class ranged skills and his gap closer (Fiery Grip) is unusable because it gives cc immunity to the opponent.
Every ranged class abble to stay distant now puts the magicka DK in great difficulty.

No other class in this game has an ability that completely negates 50% of all ranged damage. This is an incredibly strong skill. Before it was a cheap ability that if kept up completely negated all ranged damage. If you have a nerfed sniper spamming you:
1: Empowering Chains to them
2: They'll try to cloak away, break their cloak with spiked armor
3: Fossilize
4: Burn them down

If you can't adapt to taking any ranged damage that's a big fat L2P.

FleetwoodSmack · April 2019

caperon wrote: »

Patro wrote: »

jeedrzej wrote: »

How about empowering chains...?

Chains give free cc immunity.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Empowering chains is the gap closer morph, it doesn't pull the enemy it pulls you to the target and gives you 2 empower stacks. You can follow it up with fossilize without any issue. I do it constantly.

Then how else am I supposed to get pulled into enemy keeps to troll?

JumpmanLane · April 2019

Blinkin8r wrote: »

Patro wrote: »

I would like to have an opinion from someone like me who has tried magicka DK against other players on PTS.
I think the 50% reduction of projectiles damage is not enough to compensate for the wings nerf.
Magicka DK has no effective class ranged skills and his gap closer (Fiery Grip) is unusable because it gives cc immunity to the opponent.
Every ranged class abble to stay distant now puts the magicka DK in great difficulty.

No other class in this game has an ability that completely negates 50% of all ranged damage. This is an incredibly strong skill. Before it was a cheap ability that if kept up completely negated all ranged damage. If you have a nerfed sniper spamming you:
1: Empowering Chains to them
2: They'll try to cloak away, break their cloak with spiked armor
3: Fossilize
4: Burn them down

If you can't adapt to taking any ranged damage that's a big fat L2P.

Projectiles only projectiles. But I agree. My gut tells me it’s a buff.

DisgracefulMind · April 2019

I dueled against magDK last night, the wing change is extremely strong. Was useless to even hit them with projectiles because they just returned more than half the damage back at you while you gained nothing out of it.

asuzab16_ESO · April 2019

Blinkin8r wrote: »

Patro wrote: »

I would like to have an opinion from someone like me who has tried magicka DK against other players on PTS.
I think the 50% reduction of projectiles damage is not enough to compensate for the wings nerf.
Magicka DK has no effective class ranged skills and his gap closer (Fiery Grip) is unusable because it gives cc immunity to the opponent.
Every ranged class abble to stay distant now puts the magicka DK in great difficulty.

No other class in this game has an ability that completely negates 50% of all ranged damage. This is an incredibly strong skill. Before it was a cheap ability that if kept up completely negated all ranged damage. If you have a nerfed sniper spamming you:
1: Empowering Chains to them Out of range
2: They'll try to cloak away, break their cloak with spiked armor Out of range
3: Fossilize Out of range
4: Burn them down Yep, still out of range

If you can't adapt to taking any ranged damage that's a big fat L2P.

Your example works only for fights in close environments. In open spaces, not a single skill you mentioned can reach a ranged attacker and if it does, then that ranged player really sucks hard... 50% is a lot and it might be difficult to kill DKs but you now have the tools to really easily make sure that they can't kill you either. If you die versus a mDK on PTS, then it means that you have huge positioning issues and that's also a big fat L2P.

Praeficere · April 2019

@Patro

In some ways it's stronger, Dragon Fire Scale is good. The damage on each "reflect" is lower but there's more of them (up to one projectile every 0.5 seconds for 6 seconds instead of only 4 reflects) and the skill lasts longer. You can use the buffed Race Against Time for mobility/snare removal to make up for no Reflective Plate (but one less skill slot which is already a struggle on dk.)

So DK is still good to go for next patch, only need a different skill setup. Also the whip change helps but you can't spam whip anyway so you'll get used to it fast.

JumpmanLane · April 2019

asuzab16_ESO wrote: »

Blinkin8r wrote: »

Patro wrote: »

I would like to have an opinion from someone like me who has tried magicka DK against other players on PTS.
I think the 50% reduction of projectiles damage is not enough to compensate for the wings nerf.
Magicka DK has no effective class ranged skills and his gap closer (Fiery Grip) is unusable because it gives cc immunity to the opponent.
Every ranged class abble to stay distant now puts the magicka DK in great difficulty.

No other class in this game has an ability that completely negates 50% of all ranged damage. This is an incredibly strong skill. Before it was a cheap ability that if kept up completely negated all ranged damage. If you have a nerfed sniper spamming you:
1: Empowering Chains to them Out of range
2: They'll try to cloak away, break their cloak with spiked armor Out of range
3: Fossilize Out of range
4: Burn them down Yep, still out of range

If you can't adapt to taking any ranged damage that's a big fat L2P.

Your example works only for fights in close environments. In open spaces, not a single skill you mentioned can reach a ranged attacker and if it does, then that ranged player really sucks hard... 50% is a lot and it might be difficult to kill DKs but you now have the tools to really easily make sure that they can't kill you either. If you die versus a mDK on PTS, then it means that you have huge positioning issues and that's also a big fat L2P.

Why wouldn't a MagDk be running at least one staff? Lol. 1v1 against any ranged attacker even a kiting attacker isn't all that hard. If the fool won't close on YOU, (and most kill crazy dummies WILL), LURE THEM IN. Always fight near something you can LOS around. Feign a lack of resources by easing off pressure then turn on a dime when the fools close in.

Further, if a dummy decides to cut and run, NEVER chase. Reposition somewhere favorable to you. Fight on the ground of YOUR choosing. Fights are more than class vs class or skill vs skill. Consider the terrain. Consider WHERE you're fighting.

Duels are great. Yet, duels can dull your edge. The silly self imposed rules of a duel, such as no line of sighting, can make you not make use of this very effective tactic instinctively. You get 100 percent total damage mitigation if you're behind a rock lol.

lucky_Sage · April 2019

I don’t get why it’s projectles and not all range if would be better then but reflect is a key aspect of dk and is one of the most fun aspects of the class

Dracane · April 2019

I was fighting my Dk friend abit and wings still seem powerful. At first, I found it really refreshing to just be able to play my normal rotation instead of being forced into lightning heavy attacks. But I quickly realized, that my spamming isn't really taking me anywhere. So I ended up playing like I usually would when wings are up.

It also feels stronger in a way, because scales now protects against a few more attacks that previously ignored it, force pulse for example. Overall, I firmly believe this is a very healthy change for the game. This ability just hard countered so many builds and abilities. I feel like my ability choice is no longer as strict as before, because I can now use any ability without fear that 1 class will just be immune to everything.

However, I'm afraid it will become so much harder to not run master staff with clench next patch. Because it's very reliable now where you can use it effectively against almost all classes.

Alucardo · April 2019

Patro wrote: »

Maybe I confused it with the other morph.

Maybe you should try playing magicka dk a little more then. You do realise your entire argument in this thread was based on misinformation?

Savos_Saren · April 2019

The Empowering Chains gap closer needs to stretch out to be 28 meters (as an exception to most gap closers) because a DK only has one class ability that reaches 28 meters. Every other class has a gap closer AND abilities that hit at 28 meters.

Do that, and everything evens out.

Wing · April 2019

swap wings with race against time, its better in every regard.

theshockcable · April 2019

I think honestly if you rely on wings, which I call "training wheels" you're not using your class abilities and other abilities to their full potential.

Empowering Chains is the morph you want for this particular gap closer you're looking for.

Empowering Chains, Fossilize, Flame Lash, Power Lash

Rinse & Repeat

the End

Wing · April 2019

theshockcable wrote: »

I think honestly if you rely on wings, which I call "training wheels" you're not using your class abilities and other abilities to their full potential.

Empowering Chains is the morph you want for this particular gap closer you're looking for.

Empowering Chains, Fossilize, Flame Lash, Power Lash

Rinse & Repeat

the End

that's like calling breath of life templar training wheels.

wheem_ESO · April 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

The Empowering Chains gap closer needs to stretch out to be 28 meters (as an exception to most gap closers) because a DK only has one class ability that reaches 28 meters. Every other class has a gap closer AND abilities that hit at 28 meters.

Do that, and everything evens out.

Then what would be the point of trying to play ranged? The "advantage" of having abilities with 28m range vs 22m on gap closers is mostly an illusion - no one is going to be able to actively do anything to you while keeping that necessary 6m distance to prevent being gap closed. All it really means is that they get a cast or two off before you can gap close, then spend the rest of the fight where their "advantage" is completely nullified. Kiting in ESO just doesn't exist in the way that it does in other games, and spammable gap closers ensure that it never will (unless they had a extreme cost increase implemented).

Wing · April 2019

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

The Empowering Chains gap closer needs to stretch out to be 28 meters (as an exception to most gap closers) because a DK only has one class ability that reaches 28 meters. Every other class has a gap closer AND abilities that hit at 28 meters.

Do that, and everything evens out.

Then what would be the point of trying to play ranged? The "advantage" of having abilities with 28m range vs 22m on gap closers is mostly an illusion - no one is going to be able to actively do anything to you while keeping that necessary 6m distance to prevent being gap closed. All it really means is that they get a cast or two off before you can gap close, then spend the rest of the fight where their "advantage" is completely nullified. Kiting in ESO just doesn't exist in the way that it does in other games, and spammable gap closers ensure that it never will (unless they had a extreme cost increase implemented).

no benefits for ranged, I mean necro does not get a gap closer, it gets a skill that passively pulls you to them, they don't even have to walk to you XD