Vapirko wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

The most mobile? Obviously not since now it lags behind both heavy and light. And it sure as hell isn't the most defensive.

I think you're forgetting that medium armor can dodge roll for days, AND can sprint the most. I think it's pretty balanced now that light armor users have access to snare immunity now as well.

I’m guessing you don’t play many medium armor stamina build? The roll dodge for days myth is for troll stamblade builds. Again you’re welcome to upload your gameplay footage and show us how it’s done in medium with forward momentum and roll dodging for days.

Yeah, that is a myth. If you invest in Well Fitted, you might be able to roll dodge but losing Impregnable means you're dead.

In combat, you can roll dodge max 3 times in quick succession before you are out of stamina (5 med + 2 heavy), even with +2k recovery.

HaruKamui wrote: »

Why are you forcing me to upload videos lol. Defensive much? I think the burden of proof lies on you.

As stated by the two people above this post, LA is now more in line with MA which was already way better at dealing with snares before.

Do a quick forum search and you'll come up with many threads about how heavy is superior to medium and how medium suffers from the over expensive cost of shuffle. I would encourage you to go ask any knowledgeable PvPer about shuffle the duration and cost. LA isn't in line with medium anymore in terms of snare mitigation. It's now in line with heavy thats currently better than medium in almost every situation. Ive played every class except magicka warden, in both heavy medium and light specs and currently regularly play stamina templar, stamina warden, magicka DK and magicka sorc. And I can absolutely say that the ability of my Mag DK and Mag Sorc to soak up and mitigate damage in light armor is very close if not on par with medium and I can get the same resistances as medium or better, while still having good sustain, damage and stats. While RAT is a welcomed addition, you clearly don't understand what you're talking about and you very much sound like someone who doesn't play many classes/specs.

As I say to many others, if shuffle and medium armor is so damn strong and can roll dodge for days and take no damage then why dont you play that spec? Thats why the need for proof lies with you. I play all these specs, I understand how they feel outnumbered and 1v1. And I know that shuffle objectively needs a small boost to snare immunity because 2 seconds is nothing, with the way this game performs you can be pretty much snared again right after you finish casting.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

TBH I think you exaggerate, AoE damage reduction makes it up for shuffle. Difference between those skills is minimal.

Edit:
But I wouldn't mind to up immunity on shuffle to 0.7 per medium armor piece.

Quick cloak already has that mitigation covered + it’s the source of mE on non-bow builds. Everyone and their mother runs DW anyway nowadays.

But quick cloak is missing the most important part - snare and root cleanse and immunity. When you are snared that major expedition is worth nothing. Yes shuffle could use that a bit longer immunity, as I mentioned 0,7 per medium armor piece, but if you want cost reduction major evasion should be shortened by a lot, it's one of the most powerful buffs in the game - it's useless only vs magsorcs and magblades.

Why do you insist on medium to have the shortest snare immunity?

Can you read my posts before commenting?

0,7s per piece still results in 3,5s bc nobody but gankers run more than 5 medium.

Which is when taking into consideration major evasion pretty much in line with other skills. Don't you think?

I remember how people said that the Shuffle changes are a huge buff for medium armor. Yeah sure, look where we are today. Basically medium armor and bow builds lost their identity. I'm fine with a magicka skill which gives a snare removal on magicka classes but this gives also major expedition on demand, people should need to build around mobility to get major exp like using a bow or playing with that skooma set. And don't get me started about how the heavy armor brawler builds now can play with Rally and even get major expedition.

I made my own thread on this aswell, but I'll sum it up. Evasion was zos's solution to all the crying about "surviving in medium" when RNG dodge was removed, when the real issue is the lack of mobility. My suggestion is that major evasion be nerfed to 15% mitigation, as 25% is way too much to begin with. It neuters aoe damage without actually solving the mobility problem. After that, buff the immunity duration to 1s per piece of medium. Then at a base 5pc medium (90% of med builds in pvp) shuffle will be the superior snare immunity, AS IT SHOULD BE. Additionally, there will actually be an argument for dropping your undaunted and 5/1/1 passives in exchange for more snare immunity.

ArenGesus wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Forward momentum can only be ran in certain medium armor specs like Stamden and StamDK who have sufficient healing and survivability to pull it off. You cannot run Forward Momentum in medium armor on a non-niche build on Stamplar, Stamblade or Stamsorc and expect to succeed.

Qbiken wrote: »

A snare removal doesn´t really do much if you don´t have mobility to begin with. That´s why classes like stamblade and stamsorc works so well with medium armor. Stamblades got the combination of shade, cloak and shuffle which makes for very good mobilty and repositioning. A stamsorc has minor expedition in combination with streak on top of shuffle which also offers great mobility.

So stamsorcs and stamblades use shuffle, stamden and stamdk use FM then.

We good?

Honest question about this - I just created a stamDK and have only been able to spend a little time in cyro and do a handful of battlegrounds, so haven't gotten good with the class yet nor have developed a style. But currently am running 5 deadly strike and 5 battlefield acrobat, plus either heavy slimecraw or heavy bloodspawn.

I honestly don't know where the comments come from regarding survivability of stamDK (yet, because I have to get some experience still - maybe that will change). I have no purge, so feel like I have to out-heal dots and debuffs. So I'm running rally instead of FM, along side vigor. I still have wings, but those are expensive, rely on magika, and the immunity is short. I also use volatile armor for resists and other utility skills that also use magicka, so have to manage that resource very conservatively.

I have no stam resource issues in CP cyro, but magicka is a pain. In BGs I run dry on everything. Not a complaint - I have a lot of tweaking to do, but based on initial experiences, medium armor really is inferior in this way, even with a class that is supposed to be pretty tough. Maybe I'm missing something and will hit on it during tweaking, but at the moment it seems like a better version of shuffle would be particularly helpful. But at the moment, I see these types of commentary and just get confused by them. What makes a medium stamDK survivable?

Stam DK is best as a SB/2H build in heavy these days. You can absolutely do other things this is just the easiest. Vigor and FM should be enough and when you’re taking heavy damage you’ll use igneous shield for the major mending followed by vigor. Your tool tip should be pretty massive on vigor. Use heavy attacks and ults to help manage resources. The trick can be swapping between SB for the reverb bash CC and going for your burst with DBoS and then swapping to use the 2H execute. Use tri stat glyphs on the head, chest and legs and maybe look into shacklebreaker as one of your sets if you lack magicka. I was running shackle, fury and bloodspawn for a while and it was slow but very very strong.

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I don't play medium but agree shuffle needs to be buffed. I really hate the way zos balances things though because shuffle will probably never be buffed, they will instead nerf forward and race against time. Just like how they justified nerfing sustain food. It's so frustrating.

Agreed. People are still going to use dubious and Artaeum lol, they’ll just be worse.

ArenGesus wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

ArenGesus wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Forward momentum can only be ran in certain medium armor specs like Stamden and StamDK who have sufficient healing and survivability to pull it off. You cannot run Forward Momentum in medium armor on a non-niche build on Stamplar, Stamblade or Stamsorc and expect to succeed.

Qbiken wrote: »

A snare removal doesn´t really do much if you don´t have mobility to begin with. That´s why classes like stamblade and stamsorc works so well with medium armor. Stamblades got the combination of shade, cloak and shuffle which makes for very good mobilty and repositioning. A stamsorc has minor expedition in combination with streak on top of shuffle which also offers great mobility.

So stamsorcs and stamblades use shuffle, stamden and stamdk use FM then.

We good?

Honest question about this - I just created a stamDK and have only been able to spend a little time in cyro and do a handful of battlegrounds, so haven't gotten good with the class yet nor have developed a style. But currently am running 5 deadly strike and 5 battlefield acrobat, plus either heavy slimecraw or heavy bloodspawn.

I honestly don't know where the comments come from regarding survivability of stamDK (yet, because I have to get some experience still - maybe that will change). I have no purge, so feel like I have to out-heal dots and debuffs. So I'm running rally instead of FM, along side vigor. I still have wings, but those are expensive, rely on magika, and the immunity is short. I also use volatile armor for resists and other utility skills that also use magicka, so have to manage that resource very conservatively.

I have no stam resource issues in CP cyro, but magicka is a pain. In BGs I run dry on everything. Not a complaint - I have a lot of tweaking to do, but based on initial experiences, medium armor really is inferior in this way, even with a class that is supposed to be pretty tough. Maybe I'm missing something and will hit on it during tweaking, but at the moment it seems like a better version of shuffle would be particularly helpful. But at the moment, I see these types of commentary and just get confused by them. What makes a medium stamDK survivable?

Stam DK is best as a SB/2H build in heavy these days. You can absolutely do other things this is just the easiest. Vigor and FM should be enough and when you’re taking heavy damage you’ll use igneous shield for the major mending followed by vigor. Your tool tip should be pretty massive on vigor. Use heavy attacks and ults to help manage resources. The trick can be swapping between SB for the reverb bash CC and going for your burst with DBoS and then swapping to use the 2H execute. Use tri stat glyphs on the head, chest and legs and maybe look into shacklebreaker as one of your sets if you lack magicka. I was running shackle, fury and bloodspawn for a while and it was slow but very very strong.

Ok, thanks - but I get that heavy is going to make it easier to survive, I was asking the question in the context of the OP because I'm making a real attempt to play medium. And it was said that stamDK is a class that can use FM and survive just fine in medium, so was just saying that my early experience led me to believe otherwise. I guess also saying that atm I'm in support of the suggestion that shuffle could use a buff because the available toolset in medium seems weaker than other play styles.

I probably just need to get a little more sweaty - VMA seemed hard on this character the first time too, so the learning curve for a medium pvp build may just be steep.

PvP learning curve on any spec is very steep. But probably the most on medium. I would say maybe look into fortified brass or a protective trait or two if you’re having trouble. That major mending will be key. But idk personally I wouldn’t play medium without rally.

I don't play medium armor, but I can definitely agree with the op!