PSA - STOP THE WEREWOLF/VAMPIRE GRIEIFING - Want to be a were/vamp? Think again!

draygun · April 2014

Or just remove the ability to bite other players all together... problem solved.

Publius_Scipio · April 2014

Not for nothing, but campers and anyone else that impedes and affects another player's game experience are really the lowest of the low. Like the rest of us haven't paid for the game and $15 a month either.

I have faith ZOS will respond swiftly and with full force.

Cutekhaos · April 2014

My bites are free, just let me get to level 40 first

cheeser123 · April 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

A discussion started , mods actually answered to it , giving the solution.

Then people kept talking about right and wrong , which does not even matter since the mods already gave the answer anyway.

If the mods thought their answer was the end of all possible discussion, they would have locked this thread to prevent further discussion. Again, this is the entire purpose of this forum. I'm sick of people trolling around here all day to tell people to stop posting complaints/problems or to stop discussing them. That's the purpose of this forum.

Johnny_NO_skillz · April 2014

cheeser123 wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

A discussion started , mods actually answered to it , giving the solution.

Then people kept talking about right and wrong , which does not even matter since the mods already gave the answer anyway.

If the mods thought their answer was the end of all possible discussion, they would have locked this thread to prevent further discussion. Again, this is the entire purpose of this forum. I'm sick of people trolling around here all day to tell people to stop posting complaints/problems or to stop discussing them. That's the purpose of this forum.

Same here - its mad stupid.

If you don't want to acknowledge the problems in game and contribute to a platform that eventually solves issues, go back in game and leave the "community" to those who actually care about it.

2.2k views and growing.

I hope it keeps up.

Johnny_NO_skillz · April 2014

cheeser123 wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

A discussion started , mods actually answered to it , giving the solution.

Then people kept talking about right and wrong , which does not even matter since the mods already gave the answer anyway.

If the mods thought their answer was the end of all possible discussion, they would have locked this thread to prevent further discussion. Again, this is the entire purpose of this forum. I'm sick of people trolling around here all day to tell people to stop posting complaints/problems or to stop discussing them. That's the purpose of this forum.

Same here - its mad stupid.

If you don't want to acknowledge the problems in game and contribute to a platform that eventually solves issues, go back in game and leave the "community" to those who actually care about it.

2.2k views and growing.

I hope it keeps up.

Putok · April 2014

Sandhya wrote: »

Putok wrote: »

Just report them for griefing. If camping public dungeon bosses is a severe enough offense to warrant an account suspension, I'm sure this does as well, as it's even more disruptive to the "normal flow" of gameplay.

Do you (and others with similar opinion) even half-realize what the implications are of that? This is about 'where do you put the line' between griefing and 'intended gameplay'. Spawncamping can NOT be seen as griefing. Even if they are important spawns. Surely you realize this? Let me clarify with a simple, recognizable example:

So far since I started playing this game, players have been 'spawn camping' the bosses of solo-dungeons for several kills on end to get their blue item. When the group is big enough, you might not even get a hit in. If you're unlucky, you might even be waiting over 10 minutes to get your kill. And then a higher level enters the mix, hitting the boss and denying you yet another kill.

Are you going to report them for griefing, too?

People not to stop thinking their own playtime is the only thing that matters. And people need to learn to be creative, just as you would in real life. Heck, its almost like real life, isn't it? I guess that's intended

Camping a mob for the express purpose of denying an important game mechanic to another player, or trying to extort them for access to it, is without question behavior that is unacceptable under the TOS. As it should be. It's pretty much the definition of griefing. It's antisocial behavior that should not be encouraged in any way, shape or form.

IMHO, public dungeon boss camping is borderline. It's more reflective of a set of poor design choices than anything else, but given ZOS thinks it warrants a 72 hours suspension, it wouldn't surprise me if the griefing the OP mentions is punishable by a permaban, given it's dramatically worse.

EDIT: As for where you draw the line, the TOS you agree to define it pretty clearly. If it's disrupting the normal flow of gameplay for other players, it's violating the TOS.

Johnny_NO_skillz · April 2014

Putok wrote: »

IMHO, public dungeon boss camping is borderline. It's more reflective of a set of poor design choices than anything else, but given ZOS thinks it warrants a 72 hours suspension, it wouldn't surprise me if the griefing the OP mentions is punishable by a permaban, given it's dramatically worse.

I can only hope.

I want to be perfectly clear on the issues; this is not simple "mob camping" - it's out right exploitation. ANY and ALL exploitative function in MMOs are patched quickly upon discovery - in time this will be too. But to actually charge someone real money, then scam them is borderline illegal.

I'm no paralegal or nothing, but I can assure you that when a service is denied, although a transaction has occurred - this is illegal.

As I mentioned in my opening post, this is denying players an experience a lot of them specifically had in mind when buying ESO. Comparing it to Emperor is something different.

Emperorship is equivalent to being a top ranked PvPer in your server/campaign - this is a feat very few people can do. That is okay, it is a reward for highly experienced players.

But becoming werewolves/vampire DOES NOT require you to be extremely high ranked, OR HAVE A LOT OF GOLD OR MONEY TO BURN.

It's idiotic to think otherwise.

It's not "CLEVER" nor is it "FAIR".

All who claim this either condone griefing, or have ZERO desire to become were/vamp.

Sorry for typos - it's early here.

Jaxom · April 2014

I think someone else may have said it in this thread, but I'll reiterate anyway. The compromise with this is to make the rare spawns unattackable if you are of that "World Guild." Example, I am a Vampire. If I see the rare bloodfiends, I cannot damage them, agro them or kill them since we are the same (like why we cant kill people in our own faction). This way, you can't monopolize your bites for monetary gain.

To keep this fair, I'd say let Vampires kill Werewolf spawns and vise versa. This keeps people's "immersion" intact and let's people RP a Vampire killing Werewolf ect. Even if a Vampire is killing a werewolf, it would no longer be to corner a market since there wouldn't be any gain to get.

As for selling bites for in game gold, I will never charge a guild member for it, but I will charge a random person since it is on a 7 day timer. I do not condone selling bites for real money. That is illegal as stated in the TOS.

my 2c

Attorneyatlawl · April 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

CrimsonThomas wrote: »

...Was any Q/A or testing done outside the first playable areas???

yeap , there was, you can watch force videos about before the game came out , he was vet 2 then , but i think the vamp/werewolf stuff was only added when the game came out, not sure.

They were in-game and have been for a very long time now. Live environments magnify certain things compared to a beta environment.

Paske wrote: »

Its an MMO.

People found a way to monetize a nieche.

Its not a problem, its brilliant !
You want to be better then them ? Camp the NPCs your self, get biten, do the same for profit.

Putting some effort into a goal makes that goal worth while.

No one is "stealing from you". They are simply better at this game then you

Fact that we have all payed for the game doesn't mean you can simply log in, get stuff, because you paid and are entitled to get whatever you want.

Quoted for emphasis. I'm personally not going around doing anything but selling my bite to willing buyers who want the convenience and immediacy guaranteed, and have not touched a bloodfiend since being bitten, but I can understand why some people might want to do so just like any other rare mob in an MMO that can provide a benefit for keeping camped (loot, exclusivity, etc.). This is not a singleplayer game, and just like any group content, difficult solo content, or PVP, you are not entitled to be able to win at it immediately just because you subscribe.

Johnny_NO_skillz · April 2014

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

CrimsonThomas wrote: »

...Was any Q/A or testing done outside the first playable areas???

yeap , there was, you can watch force videos about before the game came out , he was vet 2 then , but i think the vamp/werewolf stuff was only added when the game came out, not sure.

They were in-game and have been for a very long time now. Live environments magnify certain things compared to a beta environment.

Paske wrote: »

Its an MMO.

People found a way to monetize a nieche.

Its not a problem, its brilliant !
You want to be better then them ? Camp the NPCs your self, get biten, do the same for profit.

Putting some effort into a goal makes that goal worth while.

No one is "stealing from you". They are simply better at this game then you

Fact that we have all payed for the game doesn't mean you can simply log in, get stuff, because you paid and are entitled to get whatever you want.

Quoted for emphasis. I'm personally not going around doing anything but selling my bite to willing buyers, and have not touched a bloodfiend since being bitten, but I can understand why some people might want to do so just like any other rare mob in an MMO that can provide a benefit for keeping camped (loot, exclusivity, etc.). This is not a singleplayer game, and just like any group content, difficult solo content, or PVP, you are not entitled to be able to win at it immediately just because you subscribe.

Just wow - yeah it's not a single player game, however, it's clear by this post you aren't familiar with the nuances of MMOs either.

driosketch · April 2014

In any case, the window for such activity is rapidly closing. The devs are keeping an eye out for in game reports of players camping these spots to sell bites. Like the players farming bosses who get swept up in the bot reporting, at the very least you're going to get a message from a GM. At the worst, you might get banned, especially if you're selling for real money.

But even if the Devs do nothing, the number of people who can give a bite, as well as knowledge of now to get one, is ever growing. Selling a bite for 40k? Someone will undercut you for 30k. Pretty soon it's 1,000, and then it's "well what ever you have in your pocket", or even free from a guild mate or friend.

It doesn't excuse the behavior, but the problem will eventually solve itself.

gharms · April 2014

This is sad. This is the reason I contemplate every time a new MMO comes out of just quitting the genre all together. Look at the sheer amount of posts here CHAMPIONING this behavior. Back in UO and EQ, this would have been met swiftly with the ban hammer. Now, companies shrug their shoulders and realize that 90% of their audience are griefer Millenials who think it's hilarious to screw with other people and drag their feet forever doing anything about it in fear of losing subs. I miss the old days of MMOs, where there was an actual community, not this loose collection of people only out for themselves.

Attorneyatlawl · April 2014

Johnny_NO_skillz wrote: »

Just wow - yeah it's not a single player game, however, it's clear by this post you aren't familiar with the nuances of MMOs either.

Played them every day almost, since 1998. Well acquainted with them, thank you very much. I skipped WOW and played other games though, perhaps that's why I don't get the supposed problem here. As I said I don't personally like that people are killing them to try to bolster the price but I certainly understand why they are doing so.

Vodkaphile · April 2014

CrimsonThomas wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

i think the vamp/werewolf stuff was only added when the game came out, not sure.

What I'm trying to say, is that it would seem these obvious exploits should have been found before release, but since they were not, I ask if it was actually tested.

A lot of exploits were found before release, and the beta community never reported them. Like hitting 50 in less than a day, etc.

Attorneyatlawl · April 2014

Vodkaphile wrote: »

CrimsonThomas wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

i think the vamp/werewolf stuff was only added when the game came out, not sure.

What I'm trying to say, is that it would seem these obvious exploits should have been found before release, but since they were not, I ask if it was actually tested.

A lot of exploits were found before release, and the beta community never reported them. Like hitting 50 in less than a day, etc.

Actually, we reported every exploit we found and re-reported when they were not fixed. I am not aware of any other than one that some small group found just before launch, that were unfixed. It is completely doable to hit 50 in less than 24 hours played legitimately.

magic_is_might · April 2014

Wow, people defending this behavior... Bet they're the same ones who are camping said vampire/werewolf spots and selling bites for ridiculous prices and not following through.

I can see and understand people selling bites if people are willing to pay. Camping and preventing others from getting bitten without paying a stupid toll is different and should result in at least suspension.

Attorneyatlawl · April 2014

magic_is_might wrote: »

Wow, people defending this behavior... Bet they're the same ones who are camping said vampire/werewolf spots and selling bites for ridiculous prices and not following through.

I can see and understand people selling bites if people are willing to pay. Camping and preventing others from getting bitten without paying a stupid toll is different and should result in at least suspension.

Who was defending it?

yodased · April 2014

Paske wrote: »

Its an MMO.

People found a way to monetize a nieche.

Its not a problem, its brilliant !
You want to be better then them ? Camp the NPCs your self, get biten, do the same for profit.

Putting some effort into a goal makes that goal worth while.

No one is "stealing from you". They are simply better at this game then you

Fact that we have all payed for the game doesn't mean you can simply log in, get stuff, because you paid and are entitled to get whatever you want.

The fact that you endorse such behavior and don't know the word is paid not payed makes me question the validity of your opinions.

Attorneyatlawl · April 2014

yodased wrote: »

Paske wrote: »

Its an MMO.

People found a way to monetize a nieche.

Its not a problem, its brilliant !
You want to be better then them ? Camp the NPCs your self, get biten, do the same for profit.

Putting some effort into a goal makes that goal worth while.

No one is "stealing from you". They are simply better at this game then you

Fact that we have all payed for the game doesn't mean you can simply log in, get stuff, because you paid and are entitled to get whatever you want.

The fact that you endorse such behavior and don't know the word is paid not payed makes me question the validity of your opinions.

Not everyone's a native English speaker... important to remember online when browsing a multi-language forum.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO · April 2014

Not every roleplayer is actualy a bite sellers im a Roleplayer and i both KILL vampire and werewolf spawns and thus for 3 roleplay reason

1. Rival clans needs to be annihilated for our clan to rule supreme (vampire clan rivalry especialy amonst royal house has always been a reality of vampirism in elder scrolls lore)
2. Mortals who arent bitten by wild beast are more enticed to join a clan such as ours and as such it provides an abondant amount of thralls.
3. The werewolves are abomination wich only deserves extermination and as such must be hunted down one by one until their complete extinction.

None of these reason include selling the bite for gold or anything. We dont scam people we just act our characters and if slaying a rival vampire or exterminating werewolf is pact of our roleplay we do so.

Bite vendors however are despicable behing and should be rooted out of the game vampirism should be reserved to only the worthy and no amount of gold should allow you to aquire it.

AnneFleur · April 2014

Johnny_NO_skillz wrote: »

-rant snip-

Get real. Honestly, the nerve of people...

Funnily enough that is exactly what I am thinking when reading your posts. I find it strange that you consider PvP to be so different while it actually is quite similar. The larger, successful guilds will acquire holdings, man them with the intent of keeping them in their possession and effectively deny other players the chance to get that holding. They could set up a guild store there, which means guilds can do it to increase their wealth. I look forward to your posts calling them out on it, for it is obviously an exploit designed to deny you ownership of that holding.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO · April 2014

speaking of wish several vampire clan and werewolf pack will offer you the bite (freely!) if you do the footwork to search for them... look around you this world is not as bright as it seems and some guilds hides in the shadow were only the most determined player will find them.

yodased · April 2014

I'll give you that my assumption he is a native English speaker is my bad. In this case the person presents themselves as at least semi-intelligent by word choice. The lack of correct spelling, misused heterographs, sentence structure and general patronizating tone is what troubles me.

No, they didn't find a "nieche" and monetized it, they found a way to exploit a weakness in the system that wasn't designed with devious people in mind.

Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean that its something you SHOULD do. This boils down the basic decency of the playerbase. Unfortunately I have seen so much idiotic behavior from the initial playerbase of the game.

It seems that the majority of players are college age males who see nothing wrong with ruining other people's experiences simply for "fun".

The people comparing this to boss spamming are completely off as well, people boss farming are annoying at worst as they may get in your way, but they aren't doing ANYTHING to keep you from progressing in the game the EXACT same was as you would if they simply weren't there. The Vamp/WW issue is different because you have people ACTIVELY attempting to block another players progress (Main quest or not, I think doesn't apply here) through the game.

There is no way around the fact that you have players who are impeding other players ability to progress through the game without penalty.

For those of you who feel that "life isn't fair" or that by denying you the ability to extort money from people is impeding your gameplay: That may be true, but it is in no way affecting your ability to PROGRESS through the game, which is the main goal of any MMO.... To get better and progress through the game!

just my .02... my flame suit is freshly pressed.

KevLit0352_ESO · April 2014

Yeah! And while we're at it can we fix this damn Emperor camping thing?! These alliances are just taking every tower in Cyrodiil and the person who did the best on their team 'earns' it! YEAH RIGHT!

Dear ZOS, pls fix this. If we can't all be Emperor, then why even play? Just because the people put most of their time and effort into achieving something doesn't mean that they deserve it and I don't for putting in significantly less effort!

zeuseason · April 2014

I agree this is pretty horrible. I've seen this greifing as well in game.

yodased · April 2014

KevLit0352_ESO wrote: »

Yeah! And while we're at it can we fix this damn Emperor camping thing?! These alliances are just taking every tower in Cyrodiil and the person who did the best on their team 'earns' it! YEAH RIGHT!

Dear ZOS, pls fix this. If we can't all be Emperor, then why even play? Just because the people put most of their time and effort into achieving something doesn't mean that they deserve it and I don't for putting in significantly less effort!

And this is the exact type of playerbase I was referring to in my above post. Let us put this into perspective:

1. Person blasts through content to get to vampire lands (Congrats btw)
2. Person gets to be a vampire by finding rare spawn and completing quest.
3. Person then blasts through content to get to level 6 vampire (super *** congrats, i mean holy crap)
4. Person then gets the ability to bite 1 person per 7 days.
5. Person then impedes all others from getting bit by NPC by killing NPC.
6. Person then "sells" the ability to turn another person into a vampire, which if they have done at all since this game launched THEY CAN NOT DO at this time.
7. Person takes other person's gold for a service THEY CANT EVEN PROVIDE

This goes beyond a moral issue and goes strait into "criminal" as this is 100% fraud.

Even if you tried to defend the selling of bites an that its not exploiting etc etc etc, explain away the fact that people are selling something that simply can not exist within the given variables.

scruffycavetroll · April 2014

i have yet to see people running around a zone saying

"BITE ME, BITE ME"

Johnny_NO_skillz · April 2014

Smh at griefer defenders. Not even going to entertain conversation with them.

Glad to know the ***holes defending these no-lifers are in the minority. Changes will soon be implemented from the looks of it.

The devs understand this is against ToS.

Get over it griefers. Take your ban and go back to whatever farm-friendly Korean MMO you crawled out of.

Attorneyatlawl · April 2014

yodased wrote: »

I'll give you that my assumption he is a native English speaker is my bad. In this case the person presents themselves as at least semi-intelligent by word choice. The lack of correct spelling, misused heterographs, sentence structure and general patronizating tone is what troubles me.

No, they didn't find a "nieche" and monetized it, they found a way to exploit a weakness in the system that wasn't designed with devious people in mind.

Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean that its something you SHOULD do. This boils down the basic decency of the playerbase. Unfortunately I have seen so much idiotic behavior from the initial playerbase of the game.

It seems that the majority of players are college age males who see nothing wrong with ruining other people's experiences simply for "fun".

The people comparing this to boss spamming are completely off as well, people boss farming are annoying at worst as they may get in your way, but they aren't doing ANYTHING to keep you from progressing in the game the EXACT same was as you would if they simply weren't there. The Vamp/WW issue is different because you have people ACTIVELY attempting to block another players progress (Main quest or not, I think doesn't apply here) through the game.

There is no way around the fact that you have players who are impeding other players ability to progress through the game without penalty.

For those of you who feel that "life isn't fair" or that by denying you the ability to extort money from people is impeding your gameplay: That may be true, but it is in no way affecting your ability to PROGRESS through the game, which is the main goal of any MMO.... To get better and progress through the game!

just my .02... my flame suit is freshly pressed.

I never said I disagreed, myself.