PSA - STOP THE WEREWOLF/VAMPIRE GRIEIFING - Want to be a were/vamp? Think again!

CrimsonThomas · April 2014

zshadez_ESO wrote: »

Nonsense. It's a game with creatures you're designed to be able to kill. It's not a main storyline progression issue, it's a side feature. Not all people being able to be bitten by vampires because they want to be because people are killing the vampires is a normal gameplay mechanic.

Not everyone's going to become emperor either, that isn't because people are stealing part of the IP. The game has hundreds of possibilities, you're not going to be able to easily achieve every one of them.

Players and Guilds holding keeps and becoming Emperor is entirely different from this.

What these guilds are doing is deliberately killing off all vampire/werewolf beasts to keep other players to have the chance from being bitten, effectively blocking players from both questlines, for the sole purpose of trying to sell vampire/werewolf bites to players since they wouldn't be able to acquire them. It's not just a matter of the monsters being killed because that's part of the game. This is an exploit that people are trying to monetize at the expense of Zenimax and other players, which is stealing.

TL;DR: Yes, it is stealing, as they are sectioning off a portion Zenimax's game through exploits and trying to resell it.

Jessabella · April 2014

CrimsonThomas wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

i think the vamp/werewolf stuff was only added when the game came out, not sure.

What I'm trying to say, is that it would seem these obvious exploits should have been found before release, but since they were not, I ask if it was actually tested.

Like @driosketch said, this was something that was brought up in PTS testing, but we were very civil to each other during the PTS testing, we did not ninja loot a chest if another player failed to open it, we didn't run up and grab a node when obviously another player was there first, and we did not do stuff to each other to make it impossible to enjoy every aspect of the game, like farming the same bosses or killing of all of one type of mob.

Gorylas1 · April 2014

this guys must be realy new to mmorpgs.. that how mmorpg work.. if he bite u for ingame money its normal ingame mechanics.. and ur talk about paypal is just a ***..
and if anyone pay 40k for bite he is ***..

Publius_Scipio · April 2014

If somone wants to turn into a vampire or werewolf they should not have it be an overly immense challenge because of other players. And surely not have a 40K gold price to turn into one as their only option. You say it's ingame mechanics because right now thats the way the game works, so you care correct. HOWEVER you are also impeding on others game experience which ZOS will not stand for.

So to all you in favor of this clown activity I wouldn't hope to see it last too much longer. Maybe in the next couple of game patches.

Zromguy_ESO · April 2014

I am one of the few people in this game, it seems, who has managed to become a werewolf, but it was by a pure stroke of luck. I was basically just riding down a path in Bangkorai (Daggerfall Covenant zone) on a full moon night and a pair of werewolves spawned right next to me. I managed to let them get a few hits on me, and I caught Lycanthropy. But, some damn griefing [snip] sacks killed the mobs before anyone else could get bitten. It didn't really p*ss me off at the time because I had already gotten the disease for myself, but now I see the effect it's had on the ESO community. I agree that griefing needs to be stopped, but I also think everyone needs to stop thinking that becoming a werewolf/ vampire is the end-all-be-all. Zenimax designed every skill tree to not have a drastic effect on gameplay. You can play the game successfully without having access to any specific tree. To be completely honest, lycanthropy is just a very small addition to combat. That's because you need 1000 ultimate to even turn into one once you're infected. It's a real pain in the ass and takes me about 10 minutes of pure grinding just to get my ultimate to a spot where I can turn into a wolf. And, not to mention, you're only able to be one for a max of 1-2 minutes at a time, it seems, even with the abilities that allow you to "extend the timer". The skill tree is literally useless in PvP because, like I said before, you need to grind for such a long time to get your ultimate up, and you can easily be killed by other players while trying to do so. Plus, the poison arrow and fighters' guild abilities suck [snip] when you're a wolf. I've literally gotten [snip] by people with those abilities without even doing any real damage to them in wolf form. It's very difficult and frustrating. I can't say anything about vampires because I've never been one, but I'm sure they have similar disabilities that prevent them from being anything more than a mere cosmetic alteration. Long story short, vampirism and lycanthropy sound good on paper but are pretty useless aside from roleplaying purposes. I do agree that griefing the mob spawns needs to be addressed accordingly, though.

dietlime · April 2014

Johnny_NO_skillz wrote: »

Any thoughts?

Give them your money, then log off. Then, report them for scamming you. They will enjoy their ban.

You (technically) aren't allowed to sell services that can't be traded through a secure channel. Sure it probably happens all the time, but this is one case where you can strike back.

Paske wrote: »

Its an MMO.

People found a way to monetize a nieche.

Its not a problem, its brilliant !
You want to be better then them ? Camp the NPCs your self, get biten, do the same for profit.

Putting some effort into a goal makes that goal worth while.

No one is "stealing from you". They are simply better at this game then you

Fact that we have all payed for the game doesn't mean you can simply log in, get stuff, because you paid and are entitled to get whatever you want.

***. I paid the same amount of money for the game as they did. I deserve access to all of the content; they should not be allowed to just bar the gate because they skipped all of the quest dialogue and got to the chair first.

Additionally, due to these players, there is often no way to practically "Camp the NPCs your self, get biten, do the same for profit." Maybe you didn't understand the OP; but we are talking about 12+ players standing around insta-gibbing each spawn for hours on end while extorting (and that's what this is, extortion) players who come nearby searching for the resource.

dietlime · April 2014

zshadez_ESO wrote: »

Nonsense. It's a game with creatures you're designed to be able to kill. It's not a main storyline progression issue, it's a side feature. Not all people being able to be bitten by vampires because they want to be because people are killing the vampires is a normal gameplay mechanic.

Not everyone's going to become emperor either, that isn't because people are stealing part of the IP. The game has hundreds of possibilities, you're not going to be able to easily achieve every one of them.

Is it a normal feature? Is it a normal feature for me to come across 10-20 players in a tight blob camping a spawn for over eight hours on end preventing the other players from playing the game? We aren't talking about "because people are killing the vampires" - we're talking about an organized effort with dozens of individuals and a schedule.

dietlime · April 2014

Jadeviper1974 wrote: »

Stuff like this is why they should have GM's in game that you can call to help you. I keep hearing folks poo poo this idea, but its the best way to take care of this kind of exploiting, when a GM can see it first hand.

In this case the best solution is to simply make the spawns too widespread and random to camp out. Shotgun that zone with monsters.

DrpPnts4Food · April 2014

Lucky I haven't come across it. My friends and I found a mob and when I got there I started attacking them because I didn't understand the mechanic.

Luckily everyone yelled at me before I killed them haha. Anyway it seemed pretty civil, everyone took it in turns getting hit and when my friend and I finally got it, we had a small chat.

I messaged him and said: "should we kill the werewolves now? lol"
"he said maybe we should haha"

But then ... just couldn't do it, our conscious got the better of us. Anyway we stuck around for a while just to make sure we got the effects. Saw roughly about 10 more ppl get the effect. Then just left to do other stuff.

TLDR: I have nothing to contribute to this thread and have no idea why I posted this

Laplace · April 2014

CrimsonThomas wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

i think the vamp/werewolf stuff was only added when the game came out, not sure.

What I'm trying to say, is that it would seem these obvious exploits should have been found before release, but since they were not, I ask if it was actually tested.

Not sure if this is an exploit (a flaw in game programming) so much as it is players being total jerks for no reason other than extorting players.

If it isn't against the TOS, it should be. This is low, and that's coming from a former WoW player. WoW community can get pretty bad, but this is a whole new level of suck.

Paske · April 2014

Its not nice.

But far from illegale.

Boss you need to finish a quest being spawn camped is different, because you are unable to continue with your quest.

Being bitten is not essential for game / quest progression.

As for people stating " you are unable to progress ", that is simply not true in this case. You simply need to be there when vampire / werewolf spawns and get bitten. Yes they willl kill the mob, but you simply need a second to get that bite.

It will take some effort for sure. But saying you are 100% unable to get biten because someone isn`t playing the way you want them is somewhat silly to say the least.

Basically - man up.

Johnny_NO_skillz · April 2014

Paske wrote: »

Its not nice.

But far from illegale.

Boss you need to finish a quest being spawn camped is different, because you are unable to continue with your quest.

Being bitten is not essential for game / quest progression.

As for people stating " you are unable to progress ", that is simply not true in this case. You simply need to be there when vampire / werewolf spawns and get bitten. Yes they willl kill the mob, but you simply need a second to get that bite.

It will take some effort for sure. But saying you are 100% unable to get biten because someone isn`t playing the way you want them is somewhat silly to say the least.

Basically - man up.

Nah - I'd rather get my money's worth - some people LIKE MYSELF paid $15 for specific expectations, one being the ability to be a werewolf. I think it's cool, and I always look forward to it in an ES game because ES does it well...

Do NOT tell me to "Man-up" because some *** wants to turn a profit in making people like me look like little pawns in their games.

You might be into some freaky dominate/submissive stuff, but I'm not.

I'm not going to be treated like a beggar to be ripped off by other player who are being *** on purpose.

Get real. Honestly, the nerve of people...

Darkholynova · April 2014

It won't matter in a month so why would ANYONE want the devs to waste time working on it when they need to be fixing bugs and paying attention to end game balance (especially where WW and Vamps are concerned). There will be enough people with it to provide it for free to guild mates/friends or to sell it cheaply to strangers.

I'm already seeing people trying to sell it at 10k. Next week it'll be down to 8k then 5k... you get the picture.

You can't argue that the convenience of having someone bite you is far superior to trying to camp the mob even without competition and jerks. Convenience will always be profitable. I think 5k will be the going rate for a long time, which is very reasonable considering you could farm that much money faster than it takes the sun to set (seriously, day is too fracking long in this game compared to how short night is). Also, most people will have a spare 5k or so by the time they hit ~20ish and feel like getting the quest. WW can't really even complete the quest line until they're 20ish anyway.

Johnny_NO_skillz · April 2014

Darkholynova wrote: »

It won't matter in a month so why would ANYONE want the devs to waste time working on it when they need to be fixing bugs and paying attention to end game balance (especially where WW and Vamps are concerned). There will be enough people with it to provide it for free to guild mates/friends or to sell it cheaply to strangers.

I'm already seeing people trying to sell it at 10k. Next week it'll be down to 8k then 5k... you get the picture.

You can't argue that the convenience of having someone bite you is far superior to trying to camp the mob even without competition and jerks. Convenience will always be profitable. I think 5k will be the going rate for a long time, which is very reasonable considering you could farm that much money faster than it takes the sun to set (seriously, day is too fracking long in this game compared to how short night is). Also, most people will have a spare 5k or so by the time they hit ~20ish and feel like getting the quest. WW can't really even complete the quest line until they're 20ish anyway.

It's a RIP OFF - it could be 1k, they WON'T bite you. They can only use the power ONCE every 7 days. That's ludicrous to think someone would even consider doing it for less than 10k anyway.

They take money and run. THERE IS NOT SYSTEM FOR BITES.

eldermpsmithrwb17_ESO · April 2014

With regard to stealing, it is not stealing, that is taking an item from someone with the intent of permanently depriving them of it. This is more like fraud/scam, these persons are intentionally exploiting the system in order to get $ from the less informed. Fraud is completed when persons gain personal benefit from it. Because it is not physical property it is not "technically" an offence. However it is immorality at its finest. It is a sad shame that when a mix if this many people are put into the same space there will inevitably be unethical behaviour.
Zenimax done a great job with this game and trust it will do nothing but improve. Please fix because I really looking forward to this part of the game. I subscribe but don't have the endless hours to find a work around for these exploiters.

KerinKor · April 2014

zshadez_ESO wrote: »

Nonsense. It's a game with creatures you're designed to be able to kill. It's not a main storyline progression issue, it's a side feature. Not all people being able to be bitten by vampires because they want to be because people are killing the vampires is a normal gameplay mechanic.

Not everyone's going to become emperor either, that isn't because people are stealing part of the IP. The game has hundreds of possibilities, you're not going to be able to easily achieve every one of them.

Why are you defending griefers?

This isn't a case of players making something easy for cash .. such as selling 'boss kills' in more traditional instanced games like WOW, Rift, whatever .. it's people deliberately making it hard/impossible for others to do something then blackmailing and extorting cash from them in order to do it.

Why are you defending this?

Darkholynova · April 2014

Johnny_NO_skillz wrote: »

Darkholynova wrote: »

It won't matter in a month so why would ANYONE want the devs to waste time working on it when they need to be fixing bugs and paying attention to end game balance (especially where WW and Vamps are concerned). There will be enough people with it to provide it for free to guild mates/friends or to sell it cheaply to strangers.

I'm already seeing people trying to sell it at 10k. Next week it'll be down to 8k then 5k... you get the picture.

You can't argue that the convenience of having someone bite you is far superior to trying to camp the mob even without competition and jerks. Convenience will always be profitable. I think 5k will be the going rate for a long time, which is very reasonable considering you could farm that much money faster than it takes the sun to set (seriously, day is too fracking long in this game compared to how short night is). Also, most people will have a spare 5k or so by the time they hit ~20ish and feel like getting the quest. WW can't really even complete the quest line until they're 20ish anyway.

It's a RIP OFF - it could be 1k, they WON'T bite you. They can only use the power ONCE every 7 days. That's ludicrous to think someone would even consider doing it for less than 10k anyway.

They take money and run. THERE IS NOT SYSTEM FOR BITES.

Ah sorry I was reading the posts arguing if the devs should make the the mobs less grief-able. No reason to change that now other than to waste dev time. IMO, get your bites from friends or be prepared to send a ticket to a GM.

It's pretty much the same as trying to get someone to craft you some gear, handing them the materials and then they ditch you. I can't think of many MMO's that actually have a system in place to allow you to safely trade someone materials and money and get your gear back when they're done. That's why we have chat logs and game masters, right?

g33kcub · April 2014

There is a difference between the Emperor and being a Vampire/Werewolf...

They stated UPFRONT there would be ONLY ONE EMPEROR PER CAMPAIGN. No where have I seen any documentation that says there will be only 12 or 13 vampires or werewolves.

I pay a monthly fee the vampire/werewolf is a side quest. My 14.99 a month guarantees me access to those side quests. People who camp those mods are in essence stealing from me as I paid for a service, my subscription, and they are denying me access to something I would otherwise have access to. That is assuming I went and did the side quests involving those items.

Your subscription GUARANTEES the ability to:
1. Participate in the main storyline.
2. Access all side quests, by opt in means. (You have to want to do them.)
3. The CHANCE to become Emperor. (You have competition for this. This was stated up front.)

NO WHERE does it say that I have to 'fight off camping players' to have the ability to complete the side quests for becoming a vampire or werewolf.

mattias.snakeb16_ESO · April 2014

g33kcub wrote: »

NO WHERE does it say that I have to 'fight off camping players' to have the ability to complete the side quests for becoming a vampire or werewolf.

No it just says online gameplay may change due to other players. Who are entitled to charge ingame (but not real money) gold for ingame services.

Besides everything is instanced to 100 so they won't be able to camp anywhere near all the werewolves between 5 guilds.

zamiel · April 2014

Just why should ZOS do anything? Because you trust someone who you never saw before?
They should spend their time on fixing bugs and questlines not protecting those that will get scammed anyway. Nothing can help those, at least if they don't have money they won't be scammed out of it.

I'm not saying that scamming is okay but I don't have any sympathy for those paying someone who is camping ww/vamps (thus immediately providing solid proof about his lack of character) when they very well know no system is in place to ensure getting the service they paid for. It's like paying money for the nigerian prince just because he wrote 'you' an email.

g33kcub wrote: »

My 14.99 a month guarantees me access to those side quests.

Your money guarantees you access to the server on which the game runs on. No loot/quest/experience is guaranteed. Quit being entitled, you get what you paid for. What's next, you open a topic that you're entitled to legendary loot? Double xp than everyone else? A personal guide to show you the secrets? Hell, a personal slave to play the game when you don't have time because 'you paid for it?'. Don't be ridiculous and entitled.

g33kcub · April 2014

They sell a subscription which includes access to all the game functions that any person would have within the game. The Side Quest content is part of those game functions. Just because some immature idiots, and that's what they are, are camping the werewolf and vampire spawn sites shouldn't preclude me as an actively paying member to be denied access because they want to kill them every spawn. I am entitled to take part in those quests should I desire to. No other player has the right to deny them to me, let alone charge me in game or real world currency to get access to them. PERIOD.

As for why Zen should do something, it's because they are in fact creating a potentially fiscal response from players who want to do those side quests and are denied access. When the GMs and CSRs do not respond, that creates a bad customer experience. Which in turn means that people will vote with their feet, that subscription will be cancelled.

I will concede that the likelihood of every instance being camped is highly improbable, but still possible; however that does not mean that Zen should just ignore the issue.

g33kcub · April 2014

mattias.snakeb16_ESO wrote: »

g33kcub wrote: »

NO WHERE does it say that I have to 'fight off camping players' to have the ability to complete the side quests for becoming a vampire or werewolf.

No it just says online gameplay may change due to other players. Who are entitled to charge ingame (but not real money) gold for ingame services.

Besides everything is instanced to 100 so they won't be able to camp anywhere near all the werewolves between 5 guilds.

This is NOT AN IN-GAME SERVICE. Period.

This is not charging currency for enchants, crafted items or even quest help. This is a group of immature idiots who camp out a group of desired mobs and say.. "If you don't pay us, you can't access them." that is tantamount to extortion. IF they lead me to them, and protected me while I was securing my bite and then ensured I got away without having to respawn. THEN it might be considered a service, however it's a PayGate to get them...

You know, like the imperial race.

Hexi · April 2014

This is so funny. What's even funnier, is that most Vampires/WW don't even use the skills, theyg just want it to be "cool" LOL. Then, a week later, when they get owned due to the drawbacks, they *** and moan.

DanteYoda · April 2014

Paske wrote: »

Its an MMO.

People found a way to monetize a nieche.

Its not a problem, its brilliant !
You want to be better then them ? Camp the NPCs your self, get biten, do the same for profit.

Putting some effort into a goal makes that goal worth while.

No one is "stealing from you". They are simply better at this game then you

Fact that we have all payed for the game doesn't mean you can simply log in, get stuff, because you paid and are entitled to get whatever you want.

So your saying be like them...
Really like looking up to griefers is a great thing? griefers are like online bullies they need to be taught a lesson, and that lesson is being banned so they cannot do it again period...

It means we paid for the game and we all deserve an equal chance at doing the content, not being forced to pay some online e-thug so we can enjoy what they got for free..

zamiel · April 2014

g33kcub wrote: »

I am entitled to take part in those quests should I desire to. No other player has the right to deny them to me, let alone charge me in game or real world currency to get access to them. PERIOD.

You are entitled to log into the server and play the game as one of thousands of users all having the exact same rights. Just like if I'm faster I can and will take a material node in front of you another player can and will kill a monster if he gets there first.

Be faster, camp sooner or explore unknown spawn locations if you want to complete the quest. The game offers you the possiblity of completing, what you cry about is other people. Guess what - they are not there to please you, not here not in real life and certanly not for the lousy 15 USD you pay. Those people who 'grief' and 'scam' you paid as well. Hell, from their point of view you should be banned since you want to prohibit them from enjoying the game they want to play in their own way - killing off wws and vamps. Why on earth do you think your point is more important than theirs? It's not. You are just one player as the others, nothing important or special. If you don't like it, you can quit the game anytime.

g33kcub · April 2014

Hexi wrote: »

This is so funny. What's even funnier, is that most Vampires/WW don't even use the skills, theyg just want it to be "cool" LOL. Then, a week later, when they get owned due to the drawbacks, they *** and moan.

I'm actually going to gear a character to be a werewolf at some point, using the skills as part of the build. But that's a bit down the line once I hit Vet Ranks on my main.

g33kcub · April 2014

zamiel wrote: »

g33kcub wrote: »

I am entitled to take part in those quests should I desire to. No other player has the right to deny them to me, let alone charge me in game or real world currency to get access to them. PERIOD.

You are entitled to log into the server and play the game as one of thousands of users all having the exact same rights. Just like if I'm faster I can and will take a material node in front of you another player can and will kill a monster if he gets there first.

Be faster, camp sooner or explore unknown spawn locations if you want to complete the quest. The game offers you the possiblity of completing, what you cry about is other people. Guess what - they are not there to please you, not here not in real life and certanly not for the lousy 15 USD you pay. Those people who 'grief' and 'scam' you paid as well. Hell, from their point of view you should be banned since you want to prohibit them from enjoying the game they want to play in their own way - killing off wws and vamps. Why on earth do you think your point is more important than theirs? It's not. You are just one player as the others, nothing important or special. If you don't like it, you can quit the game anytime.

In general I do not have any problem with your intentions other than trying to insult me.

The problem here isn't being faster, camping sooner, it's that guilds are basically perma camping these locations and denying access outright. If it were a matter of just not getting there before someone else killed them, then I'd be ok with it. It is a different story when they are purposely denying anyone who did not concede to their payment plan to gain access to them.

BTW they aren't doing it out of enjoyment of the game, it is for their Fiscal Gain. If it were a matter of enjoyment, then they wouldn't ask people for in-game or RL money to 'not kill the mob'.

zamiel · April 2014

g33kcub wrote: »

The problem here isn't being faster, camping sooner, it's that guilds are basically perma camping these locations and denying access outright. If it were a matter of just not getting there before someone else killed them, then I'd be ok with it. It is a different story when they are purposely denying anyone who did not concede to their payment plan to gain access to them.

They are not perma camping. They might be camping the most popular locations in the most popular hours in a few instances.
Use /camp to change instance. If it's so important to you stay up late once. Get a friend who has it and wait 7 days until he's off CD. Get in a guild (seriously, every guild has a few WW and vamp by now) and wait your turn. If all else fails level up and get it a week later when the campers get bored and leave.

But nooo, it's much easier to come to the forums, open a thread and demand that a company changes the product and punishes other paying people just because you don't like it.

g33kcub · April 2014

zamiel wrote: »

g33kcub wrote: »

The problem here isn't being faster, camping sooner, it's that guilds are basically perma camping these locations and denying access outright. If it were a matter of just not getting there before someone else killed them, then I'd be ok with it. It is a different story when they are purposely denying anyone who did not concede to their payment plan to gain access to them.

They are not perma camping. They might be camping the most popular locations in the most popular hours in a few instances
Use /camp to change instance. If it's so important to you stay up late once. Get a friend who has it and wait 7 days until he's off CD. Get in a guild (seriously, every guild has a few WW and vamp by now) and wait your turn. If all else fails level up and get it a week later when the campers get bored and leave.

But nooo, it's much easier to come to the forums, open a thread and demand that a company changes the product and punishes other paying people just because you don't like it. Now that's childish.

See this >POINT<, wait no, you are missing it.

Again, the OP stated: They are CAMPING THE SPAWN and CHARGING FOR THE RIGHT TO GET BITTEN. (Están CAMPING EL SPAWN y cobrar por el derecho de obtener morbido. / Ils sont CAMPING LA SPAWN et de charge pour le droit d'obtenir mordu.) <If they aren't right blame Google, but apparently English isn't quite understood.>

And I will note, I have never said that Zen should change the game. I simply said they should do something about it. What they decide is their own business. The easiest solution would level the ban hammer on people trying to deny access for funds either RL or In Game. That's my opinion. The OP isn't asking for Sympathy or Empathy from the community, though I'm sure they were expecting some. The fact is that there are few games out there, that are MMOs, that have an in game function like this that requires a mob to be killed to start the chain of events. Most of the time you have to get a quest, which leads to the final product. In this case you get bitten, then have to quest to get access to the powers.

LazerusKI · April 2014

yeah...there are two kinds of biters.
those who want to profit from other players by ruining the "do it yourself" part for them, and those who want to sell the bite because they have no one else or just need money.

i mean...im one of those players who want to help others. sure a little profit would be nice, but if there is a spawn at the moment and im bored, i even group up with the mortals to search for the spawns.

there are always players who wnt to exploit these systems...sadly