ACCC Complaint 219402

shaielzafine · April 2019

redspecter23 wrote: »

One day, the servers will shut down for real and permanently. What happens to all the money you've put into the game at that point? It will be gone in an instant. There is no investment in a game like this, at least no long term investment. I play under the assumption that this game could be gone in a year. $200 pixel house? Nope. $50 pixel mount? Nope. ZOS is well within their rights to shut down at any time for any reason regardless of how much money players have put into the game. We as players are welcome to either play or move on. You of course have the right to file a complaint. I'm just not sure it will do anything.

Yup. I'm going to miss the pretty things from the crown store and my collection of useless shiny pixels when the servers close down one day. But yea, I bought everything with the knowledge they're just pixels and that they will be gone. I'm also pretty sure if I complain some more about ZOS disconnecting me or giving me laggy performance all the time, ZOS will not do anything about it. We're actually pretty lucky they even responded about the EU login problems, based on the way they ignore most complaints about servers. Of course, I don't know anything about consumer protection laws in Australia, where OP is from.

Haenk · April 2019

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

fix an issue they didn't even expect to have in the first place?

They already admitted they have known *for months* their servers could not handle the population.
Actually I think the issues have been there for *years*.

So there would have been plenty of time to adjust capacity, but they decided to live with it (and take the moey).

therift · April 2019

Haenk wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

fix an issue they didn't even expect to have in the first place?

They already admitted they have known *for months* their servers could not handle the population.
Actually I think the issues have been there for *years*.

So there would have been plenty of time to adjust capacity, but they decided to live with it (and take the moey).

The actual statement from the Studio President says that the increase in population covered a period of weeks, and that the increase eventually exceeded all measures ZoS was able to make with existing hardware.

My impression of the statement is that a recent trend of population spikes initially appeared to be temporary, were initially attributed to game Events (Midyear Mayhem in January) and free play marketing, and could not be clearly identified as a permanent trend until there was precious little time to react.

starkerealm · April 2019

therift wrote: »

edit:extraneous text

Hate when you're working on a post, and then decided, "nah, can't be bothered," only for the fragment to then show up latter because it was saved to drafts? Yeah, me too. :P

OwnerOfSuccuby · April 2019

It is not becouse promotion. If other players play something, game do not care them. I know it on my own 16+ years gamer exp.

The main reason why there are so much players, other projects are near impossible to play. For example - i delete last game i play becouse of new customer agrement, where our bad localizator say: we now can copy any file from your computer and it is legal. Bb licalizator -> to trash than

There are not a lot of good games to play. When player find something it try to take all he can, all peoples, gamers from everywhere he can to it. For 1 year ago TESO was really the best i ever see. Perfect game. But now it hardly degrodating for last half of the year.

The same thing was in other games too. If nothing changes, people will start to leav in big proportions to any othet good project. For now there are nothing to play, but if something will show - a lot of people start ti migrate and try to take all thete friends with them. If this heppens when game works fine - no body will go from one game to another. But if there are some problems in it, they leave and make hardly bad demotivation to other to play it. Becouse they leave becouse product was bad and thouse who nake it were "thieves who just wants money".

Problem is not fixing for very long period, but i do not know any good project to play for near 3 month. But if degrodation will continue i think it will be bad for teso.
And for me i rwally like this game.

kongkim · April 2019

LOL This is just stupid.

AndyMac · April 2019

Waste of ACCC time tbh - I haven’t read all the fine print, but ZOS has doubtless covered this.

LegacyDM · April 2019

Zavijah wrote: »

I actually love this post.

By operating an office in the Australian territory, it doesn't matter what Terms of Service ZOS outlines - if they can't actually provide the service then they need to cease offering the product as marketable.

Our laws and operating an office here override the caveats of the product provider, on a reasonable basis. Which I'm more than confident that there are enough case examples floating around to demonstrate service is not reasonable.

A seperate but relevant point is that Akamai is not disclosed as impacting product service dleivery; it directly impacts performance through routing through Europe, to America - artificially inflating response time in game and was ONLY added after games launch, without a change in description to sold product.

And the best part? ... This thread cannot be locked down; as another part of operating an office in Australia means you need to provide a platform for clients to clearly and visibly contact product provider, where it is known they will respond.

I've taken the liberty also of recording original post and subsequent responses should any forum moderators be unaware of requirements for Australian consumer law.

Um Zos servers are not located in Australia and I don't think they have offices in aus? As a customer you are agreeing to their terms to gain access to their servers and play their content operated in a different country. Does aus even have any legal jurisdiction on a U.S. Based company operating servers in U.S. And EU?

Androconium · April 2019

The purpose of a game is to have fun.

There is no fun to be had sitting and watching a queue time count backwards; and still for 30 minutes at 3:05
This game no longer is fun for me. This queueing-as-a-solution to overselling is the last straw.

On that basis it is not fit for purpose that I bought it. I really don't care if you agree with me or not.

I want the fun back.

MattT1988 · April 2019

LegacyDM wrote: »

Zavijah wrote: »

I actually love this post.

By operating an office in the Australian territory, it doesn't matter what Terms of Service ZOS outlines - if they can't actually provide the service then they need to cease offering the product as marketable.

Our laws and operating an office here override the caveats of the product provider, on a reasonable basis. Which I'm more than confident that there are enough case examples floating around to demonstrate service is not reasonable.

A seperate but relevant point is that Akamai is not disclosed as impacting product service dleivery; it directly impacts performance through routing through Europe, to America - artificially inflating response time in game and was ONLY added after games launch, without a change in description to sold product.

And the best part? ... This thread cannot be locked down; as another part of operating an office in Australia means you need to provide a platform for clients to clearly and visibly contact product provider, where it is known they will respond.

I've taken the liberty also of recording original post and subsequent responses should any forum moderators be unaware of requirements for Australian consumer law.

Um Zos servers are not located in Australia and I don't think they have offices in aus? As a customer you are agreeing to their terms to gain access to their servers and play their content operated in a different country. Does aus even have any legal jurisdiction on a U.S. Based company operating servers in U.S. And EU?

ZOS has an office down here I’m pretty sure. I don’t know enough about our ACCC laws to know if this guy even has a case, but I do know that this born out of desperation. The game was heavily advertised down here and they charged full price for it, they are obligated to make sure it works properly, they haven’t done that for years now and the issue is constantly ignored, check the dozen or so threads about the Oceanic problems, you won’t find a mod or dev response in any of them, no matter how much they’ve been tagged.
We are tired of being ripped off down here and while I don’t think I would taken the step the OP has, I can see why he’s exploring the avenues.

Enough’s enough.

JimmyJuJu · April 2019

Androconium wrote: »

The purpose of a game is to have fun.

There is no fun to be had sitting and watching a queue time count backwards; and still for 30 minutes at 3:05
This game no longer is fun for me. This queueing-as-a-solution to overselling is the last straw.

On that basis it is not fit for purpose that I bought it. I really don't care if you agree with me or not.

I want the fun back.

In other news, Zenimax Online Studios prohibits all IP addresses originating from Australia. Reason cited as "Too much trouble, not worth the effort."

Androconium · April 2019

LegacyDM wrote: »

Zavijah wrote: »

I actually love this post.

By operating an office in the Australian territory, it doesn't matter what Terms of Service ZOS outlines - if they can't actually provide the service then they need to cease offering the product as marketable.

Our laws and operating an office here override the caveats of the product provider, on a reasonable basis. Which I'm more than confident that there are enough case examples floating around to demonstrate service is not reasonable.

A seperate but relevant point is that Akamai is not disclosed as impacting product service dleivery; it directly impacts performance through routing through Europe, to America - artificially inflating response time in game and was ONLY added after games launch, without a change in description to sold product.

And the best part? ... This thread cannot be locked down; as another part of operating an office in Australia means you need to provide a platform for clients to clearly and visibly contact product provider, where it is known they will respond.

I've taken the liberty also of recording original post and subsequent responses should any forum moderators be unaware of requirements for Australian consumer law.

Um Zos servers are not located in Australia and I don't think they have offices in aus? As a customer you are agreeing to their terms to gain access to their servers and play their content operated in a different country. Does aus even have any legal jurisdiction on a U.S. Based company operating servers in U.S. And EU?

Zenimax Australia Pty Ltd

82 The Corso,
Manly NSW 2095

(02) 9977 1014

Androconium · April 2019

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Androconium wrote: »

The purpose of a game is to have fun.

There is no fun to be had sitting and watching a queue time count backwards; and still for 30 minutes at 3:05
This game no longer is fun for me. This queueing-as-a-solution to overselling is the last straw.

On that basis it is not fit for purpose that I bought it. I really don't care if you agree with me or not.

I want the fun back.

In other news, Zenimax Online Studios prohibits all IP addresses originating from Australia. Reason cited as "Too much trouble, not worth the effort."

That's certainly valid response for Bethesda to take. It would make not buying their products so much easier.

JimmyJuJu · April 2019

Androconium wrote: »

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Androconium wrote: »

The purpose of a game is to have fun.

There is no fun to be had sitting and watching a queue time count backwards; and still for 30 minutes at 3:05
This game no longer is fun for me. This queueing-as-a-solution to overselling is the last straw.

On that basis it is not fit for purpose that I bought it. I really don't care if you agree with me or not.

I want the fun back.

In other news, Zenimax Online Studios prohibits all IP addresses originating from Australia. Reason cited as "Too much trouble, not worth the effort."

That's certainly valid response for Bethesda to take. It would make not buying their products so much easier.

Bethesda? I thought this was an anti-Zenimax rant. In any event, last I checked Australia has a robust and open capitalist economy. You are free to spend your dollars elsewhere.

Obviously, you will defend your position regardless of what any one here says. However, I can only hope the ACCC gives this the two seconds it deserves and then moves on to other actually important issues.

Bhaal5 · April 2019

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Androconium wrote: »

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Androconium wrote: »

The purpose of a game is to have fun.

There is no fun to be had sitting and watching a queue time count backwards; and still for 30 minutes at 3:05
This game no longer is fun for me. This queueing-as-a-solution to overselling is the last straw.

On that basis it is not fit for purpose that I bought it. I really don't care if you agree with me or not.

I want the fun back.

In other news, Zenimax Online Studios prohibits all IP addresses originating from Australia. Reason cited as "Too much trouble, not worth the effort."

That's certainly valid response for Bethesda to take. It would make not buying their products so much easier.

Bethesda? I thought this was an anti-Zenimax rant. In any event, last I checked Australia has a robust and open capitalist economy. You are free to spend your dollars elsewhere.

Obviously, you will defend your position regardless of what any one here says. However, I can only hope the ACCC gives this the two seconds it deserves and then moves on to other actually important issues.

Accc job is to look into fraudulent companies that are misleading consumers and/or producing faulty products. Which OP has a point, they are selling a faulty "premium" product with no attempt to repair it.

ErMurazor · April 2019

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Someone to snap their fingers and fix an issue they didn't even expect to have in the first place?

Are you serious? For real? IF you played the game once the past years you would know that the "issue" didnt occur over night.

starkerealm · April 2019

LegacyDM wrote: »

Zavijah wrote: »

I actually love this post.

By operating an office in the Australian territory, it doesn't matter what Terms of Service ZOS outlines - if they can't actually provide the service then they need to cease offering the product as marketable.

Our laws and operating an office here override the caveats of the product provider, on a reasonable basis. Which I'm more than confident that there are enough case examples floating around to demonstrate service is not reasonable.

A seperate but relevant point is that Akamai is not disclosed as impacting product service dleivery; it directly impacts performance through routing through Europe, to America - artificially inflating response time in game and was ONLY added after games launch, without a change in description to sold product.

And the best part? ... This thread cannot be locked down; as another part of operating an office in Australia means you need to provide a platform for clients to clearly and visibly contact product provider, where it is known they will respond.

I've taken the liberty also of recording original post and subsequent responses should any forum moderators be unaware of requirements for Australian consumer law.

Um Zos servers are not located in Australia and I don't think they have offices in aus? As a customer you are agreeing to their terms to gain access to their servers and play their content operated in a different country. Does aus even have any legal jurisdiction on a U.S. Based company operating servers in U.S. And EU?

It's complicated.

They have subject matter jurisdiction. The consumer is one of their citizens, and the game is sold in Australia. But, they may not have personal jurisdiction.

Personal jurisdiction is a concept in international law, where you're determining if the court has any means to enforce their rulings on a party that resides (or operates) in another country. So, it's distinctly possible that the ACCC and the Australian courts could find against ZOS, or Zenimax as a whole, but be unable to actually enforce anything because they have no actual authority that ZOS respects.

Jurisdiction in international law is fun/complicated/a complete cluster****. Pick two.

Shady_Knights · April 2019

therift wrote: »

Haenk wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

fix an issue they didn't even expect to have in the first place?

They already admitted they have known *for months* their servers could not handle the population.
Actually I think the issues have been there for *years*.

So there would have been plenty of time to adjust capacity, but they decided to live with it (and take the moey).

The actual statement from the Studio President says that the increase in population covered a period of weeks, and that the increase eventually exceeded all measures ZoS was able to make with existing hardware.

My impression of the statement is that a recent trend of population spikes initially appeared to be temporary, were initially attributed to game Events (Midyear Mayhem in January) and free play marketing, and could not be clearly identified as a permanent trend until there was precious little time to react.

Not sure what you are reading. But the announcement is posted here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/467936/pc-eu-server-update-april-11/p1

"Starting in January we've had an influx of new players - we've have had some of our highest weekly average user, daily active user, and peak concurrent user numbers in the last six weeks since we launched on console back in 2015. So, it was in January when EU players started noticing degraded server performance. We made tweaks and updates to the service to free up extra database resources and other boosts to performance, which is why you have been seeing more and longer maintenance outages than normal in the last couple of months."

he goes on:

"However, in late March, we really saw a huge spike in the number of users logging in, which led to too many concurrent users for the platform to effectively support. As a result, players on PC EU have seen a severe degradation in service. This degradation started in January, but has greatly accelerated in the last week - lag spikes, disconnects, inability to zone from instance to instance, weird interactions with LFG, etc. These problems are greatly exacerbated by having serious load on the servers, as there are too many users for the hardware to handle."

So no, it's not a period of weeks, it's a period of Months (that they acknowledge). They tried to contain it, but were unsuccessful and they acknowledge that there's been a severe degradation in service. This degradation started in January.

They've finally have come clean now on the 11th April. Despite knowing these issues, they continually promoted festivals and free player weekends compounding the issue.

Don't forget that they've also said other fixes will announced late last year to fix client performance will be coming in sometime midway this year.

Good if you aren't impacted by all of this, but a lot of people are.

TheRealPotoroo · April 2019

Shady_Knights wrote: »

This all is due to a lack of support on a longstanding issue impacting the Oce/Sea region.

See: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/439549/oceanic-lag-now-300-400-ms-even-with-a-vpn-was-250-300#latest

21 pages of complaints going back to October with no acknowledgement.

EU server has been under spec'ed from at least January with acknowledgement only now, and confirmation US server will also need additional servers spun up in the comming weeks.

Zenimax sells a defective service in Australia. Complaints to Zenimax have fallen on deaf ears. ACCC is a Government run organisation to protect Australian consumer rights. Unfortunately, when companies don't address issues or even fail to acknowledge them then this is a forum that can help get an outcome.

It used to be playable. It has changed and our complaints have fallen on deaf ears.

This is the key. It used to be playable, lag has deteriorated and ZOS refuse to even acknowledge there's a problem. This is where consumer rights laws come into play. They take Australian players' money without any understanding of their obligation to provide the service they promised and people have paid for. They think they can just ignore us, and that is exactly why consumer rights bodies like the ACCC exist. There's nothing the least bit vexatious about this because the problem is real and if it takes intervention by as government agency to kick ZOS's arrogance out of them then so be it.

Mr_Walker · April 2019

I doubt it's got legs, but kudos to the OP for actually trying to do something.

Soresina · April 2019

Good work! If the ACCC deems this to be a situation where they can generate good publicity they will respond in a totally inappropriate manner that will most likely end with most overseas games companies finding it too hard to do business in Australia. There will be no more lag issues for Aussies when we can't even get onto the games,

Whilst I applaud your willingness to take a stand I do think you could have found a better way to make your stand than go to a regulatory authority just prior to an election. I guarantee they won't be trying to solve your personal issue but will take advantage of it and disguise it by "protecting Australian children". Always a good platform for an election.

Yes there are issues that we face over here in Australia but if you have been gaming for any length of time then you would know that incidents like this are not unique and actually should be expected. In fact I would be worried if there weren't issues because it would mean the developers aren't trying to stretch themselves. It wouldn't be the first time something in a game broke.

I agree very much with your post that this is not the game I bought. There have been times when I could cheerfully strangle ZOS (especially if it takes me a long time to login after i post this). There have also been a lot of very good times that will probably bring a smile to my face long after this game has ended so it will not really be forgotten. When I look back over the last five years I have seen many improvements, some of which we asked for a very long time before they were implemented. There have also been changes and improvements that many never thought to ask for. Looking back over the last five years I see that the developers have listened - just not on our time scale. This is so not the game I bought but I don't want ZOS to give it back. I like this one way better!

By all means complain about ZOS and to them, i know I do all the time, but don't start taking things to regulatory authorities who in the long run are only willing to do things when it makes them look good.

KoultouraS · April 2019

Androconium wrote: »

Zenimax Australia promotes the massively-multiplayer online (MMO) video game entertainment package entitled "Elder Scrolls Online"

In the past week they have introduced a login queueing system to limit the number of concurrent players that can access their "PC-EU" megaserver.

My purchased products include:
An initial one-off cost for basic game play software "the game".
A six-month subscription for access to downloadable content (DLC) and other game play elements as defined in the ESO Plus subscription.

The product is no longer fit-for-pupose.

I am not seeking compensation; I am seeking an immediate remedy to the login queueing restriction, that by Zenimax' own comments, is to limit the number of concurrent players, which is in direct contrast to the concept of "MMO". Players located around the world should be able to login at any time and compete successfully with each other.

This is now not possible.

The current increase in player volume is the result of promotional activity in 2019, that has seen new customers overloading an unprepared system, a system that has had ongoing stability problems for the past 24 months.

Put bluntly, they have expended effort on attracting new business, without first ensuring that existing business could be provided with a fit-for-purpose and stable product.

(If I have represented something incorrectly, please identify the issue and I will amend the complaint)

Is this a report you are planing to file to your ACCC?
I don't understand what you want us to do with it.
As for what is happening , you are dead right .
So is it something you have filed, or something that you will?

Undefwun · April 2019

Androconium wrote: »

Zenimax Australia Pty Ltd

82 The Corso,
Manly NSW 2095

(02) 9977 1014

I should go knock on the door and say hi.... bring a 6 pack and have a chat about what the issues are.

Also I wonder what ping all the ppl leaving derisive comments have.
If you play with anywhere near 100 ping or less.. take a seat and think about what an a$$ you are being.
Play with 300-400 just town running every day for a year and then you can talk.

I seen US guild mates and streamers complain about "un-playable" at 150 ping. I am sitting here wishing I had 150.
If I am in a BG at 275 it is a good day and that is using mudfish. When you are facing a good player who is animation cancelling and weaving perfectly on top of a lot of combat experience, being behind by a half to a second is game over without any chance.

Go PvP and watch your bar swaps disappear, abilities not firing, packet loss freezing your game for a second and then losing to some flop who in reality should not have had a shot. Anyone that has been on my team has seen me die and then "WTB bar swap"... almost every round.

Trials it's not as bad for me (found a good guild and we did vMoL 2nd attempt), but parsing you can definitely tell too. Abilities like endless hail not casting or double casting, light attack weaving with inferno, the light attacks go missing. Some fellow Aussies say they can not do vMA do due to lag.

That frustration builds up over time. I am not surprised at the OPs actions.

Add to that ping has gone up over the years for us. When I first played for a few months in 14/15, 180-200 without using an optimiser like mudfish was possible. Now I get 275-300 (with optimisation) when running around, spikes a bit in BGs and really spikes near big keep sieges in Cyro.

It's like hopping in a boxing ring but only you have one arm tied behind your back, your opponent doesn't but then says L2P when you complain.

PS yes most us do understand there is physical limitations that cause higher latency, but ZOS decided to add an extra layer with Akamai and they are royally screwing us around.

bharathitman · April 2019

What does the OP want ZOS to do here? They have already said that we should expect a solution within 2 weeks, there is no immediate one minute solution to this problem.

I am not a ZOS apologist, but what you have done does nothing to alleviate the problem that EU servers are currently facing. If there is no concrete action or communication from their end after the expected time frame of action then yes, it makes sense to be more vocal. Complaining against a login queues is petulant, every other MMO has it. Why don't you complain about Cyrodiil campaign queues during prime time next?

starkerealm · April 2019

Undefwun wrote: »

...but ZOS decided to add an extra layer with Akamai and they are royally screwing us around.

Just so we're on the same page here: the purpose behind Akamai is to prevent DDOS attacks. Also, in case you forgot, ESO did come under DDOS attacks before adding Akamai.

So, it's not like this was introduced specifically to screw with Aussie players.

Even if you wanted to claim that Akamai is the real problem, you couldn't file an ACCC claim on the subject because the value of the Akamai contract almost certainly exceeds 40k AUD, exempting from the ACCC, and because you were not a party to that transaction. Further, Akamai appears to do exactly what it advertises, prevent DDOS of the service.

So, really, no matter how you cut it, the ACCC really isn't designed for this kind of an issue.

MJallday · April 2019

the OP's entire argument is flawed

he (i assume he) says "the product is not fit for purpose". whereas actually it is, its just slow.
being fit for purpose (not working) and slow (still working) are 2 different things.

he states he cant use it because of a "queue" - so what, its still working and actually the company has publically stated what its going to do to fix it. in short, have patience!

I sympathise with you AUS guys - and i do know from experience akamai is terrible (we stopped using them in the UK for an ecommerce company about 10 years ago for this very reason) - but there are workarounds - such as VPNS - which i appreciate is not ideal, but it is a workaround.

It isnt going to change, so as consumers you either need to vote with your feet and move to another MMO , or live with it.

this thread needs to be closed tbh. its gone on 3 pages longer than it should have @ZOS_GinaBruno

kyle.wilson · April 2019

Androconium wrote: »

My rights

This is now a formally lodged complaint with the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.
The reference number is in the title.

The TOS that was agreed to has many restrictions. This isn't really the correct way to get what you want. Most likely it'll get a significant reduction in playing time (i.e. 0) Threatening legal actions doesn't work when you've agreed to arbitration already.

You've obviously never ran a business if you think that you cant get blindsided by a significant increase/decrease of orders of whatever good/service you sell.

I recommend thoroughly rereading the TOS before continuing.

WolfingHour · April 2019

Nice karma farm you have going here.

(Good luck with your complaint)

bharathitman · April 2019

In short this is what happens when there are log-in queues, people find extra time to do things like lodging a complaint to ACCC. This is what might have happened
- OP logs-in, sees a 15 minute queue
- Gets bored and thinks how to spend the next 15 minutes
- Writes a complaint to ACCC

Undefwun · April 2019

starkerealm wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

...but ZOS decided to add an extra layer with Akamai and they are royally screwing us around.

Just so we're on the same page here: the purpose behind Akamai is to prevent DDOS attacks. Also, in case you forgot, ESO did come under DDOS attacks before adding Akamai.

So, it's not like this was introduced specifically to screw with Aussie players.

Even if you wanted to claim that Akamai is the real problem, you couldn't file an ACCC claim on the subject because the value of the Akamai contract almost certainly exceeds 40k AUD, exempting from the ACCC, and because you were not a party to that transaction. Further, Akamai appears to do exactly what it advertises, prevent DDOS of the service.

So, really, no matter how you cut it, the ACCC really isn't designed for this kind of an issue.

a) I also doubt ACCC can do anything in this case.
I just tried to enlighten people getting proper service and latency to the frustrations of OCE players and that OP didn't just decide to throw a tantrum over 1 thing, but what has been building over months if not years

b) Did I say 'just to screw with us'? That would be plain stupid. No, I said the protection they employed IS screwing us.

If you can be bothered and look into the threads about OCE bad ping, there is people who have traced their routes etc... Akamai is routing the traffic based on geographic location, which means instead of going straight to the US everything goes via Hong Kong and then ppl have reported it going via Japan and even the Netherlands before finally heading for ESO servers in Dallas.
So yes we can claim with some degree of certainty that since the introduction of Akamai protecting ESO data our already sad ping has gotten worse, like minimum 50-100ms worse.

I am attempting to skip that part using mudfish, my data comes from 'central US' before going to the closest Akamai center to that and then to Dallas.