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Gold buying by real money is a bad practice in ESO - Please Restrict it!
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JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Some folks should just mind their own business. Besides, gifting for WHATEVER reason boosts ZOŠ's bottom line. So, good luck with that.
1 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Crown store items for gold is pure P2W.
You can't buy BiS gear in crown store, you can't buy it for gold either (two exceptions are the gold trader once per week and buying stuff from group members in trials/dungeons), so you literally CANNOT win by paying. Doesn't even matter if gold or crowns. Everything you can buy is usually not hard to get or it doesn't give you any advantage at all.
What is really happening here is that you simply dislike ingame stores, hence "I refuse to touch Crown Store exclusive motifs. I would rather they didn't exist at all" (crown store has a lot of exclusive stuff, not just motifs), and you'd like to ignore it all together but it became harder since people are able to buy those exclusive things with their gold. And that's outrageous! They shouldn't! PLEASE STAPH THEM!
It's okay to dislike things you do not agree with but at least be honest with yourself and don't cover it with pay-to-win label. It's getting old.
Of course You can buy BiS gear for gold. Even BoP one. Have You ever heared about carry runs ? You know what is the currency there ? Gold. You can easily get for example perfected siroria/relequen by paying for being carried like a bag of potatoes and getting all the loot. You can pay for vDSA carry runs and get master dual wield , destro staff or bow or perfected asulym destro staff in vAS HM without even knowing mechanics of vDSA or vAS and practicing it at all and those mentioned weapons are part of many BiS PvP setups that will give You many times adventage over players who dont have them. You can buy rare items that normally You would spend weeks or months on farming and retraiting just by buying them already with perfect traits for the gold You earned in few minutes by selling crowns.
The only BiS items You cannot get faster by spending the gold atm are maelstrom weapons. Rest You can simply get by paying for it directly or through carry runs. Especially when new update hits and there are new meta setups those players paying real life money for the gold and buying those BiS items for the gold are getting real adventage over people who play game normally and do not have accumulated large amounts of gold which takes some time to accomplish.
I personally know someone who is selling crowns for gold and he openly says "why should I spend time on playing the game the way I dont like and farm or progress through stuff , if I can just take weekend shift in my job which isnt even hard because in weekends there isnt much to do and for money I'll earn I can get everything I need in the game way faster then it would take normally"
Definition of pay to win You've linked describes excatly what's happening in ESO through gifting. You can buy the gold for real money and get certain BiS items instantly while there are "those playing for free who might otherwise need to spend time progressing in order to unlock said items". If that is definition of p2w then ESO is game with p2w element within.
Is it really all that game breaking that some people are willing to exchange real money for gold via crowns and then use that gold to get carried through a dungeon to get Bis gear?
I just don't see where this is a big deal. In full disclosure, I have not used the crowns for gold process as I have accumulated a few million in gold already and I can't find anything to spend it on as it is. I donate a bunch to my trading guild and make about 500,000 a week just doing crafting writs and simple adventuring.
It's not about is it or is it not game breaking but is p2w element exist or not. Some people will say it's game breaking some will say it isnt but it's not the point of discussion here.
I think Your point of view here is slightly blurred because You look at that subject from the perspective of someone who have been playing for a long time and actively been doing things bringing benefit. How long it took You to get to that point though ? Because now other people can get to that point in few hours without even playing the game. That is the difference that brings concerns.
Why does it bring concerns that someone can achieve it faster than I did? Why would one even care that someone else has the same thing quicker?
I've enjoyed the game a long while and have built 8 very distinctive adventurers / crafters. Other people want certain things faster so they can jump right into PvP or end game trials. Why would I have a porblem with that if I am enjoying my aspects of the game?
a PvPer that has "bought" Bis gear through carries is easy to see on the battlefield - they are the ones needing a res...
You still dont get the point. It's not about why You should or shouldnt care. It's simply about is it or is it not p2w element in the game. If we would talk about feelings from someones perspective then I am sure that even if ZoS would add some new unique weapons that would be very strong in PvP and only obtainable in crown store there would be still few people saying "why should I care I dont play PvP anyway and I enjoy what I am doing so everything is fine". Other people would be outraged and in both cases that would be the feelings not the facts and the facts are it would be pay to win. Fact those things doesnt affect You or Your feelings doesnt instantly mean it cannot be called p2w.
Even if getting best setups possible can be obtained by both paying or playing and both ways will bring You to similar results there will be still players playing to win or paying to win so pay to win element exist.0 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Of course You can buy BiS gear for gold. Even BoP one. Have You ever heared about carry runs ? You know what is the currency there ? Gold.
If your standard of "p2w" is "you can pay gold for a carry", then there's no reason to even discuss the concept with you. Your definition is so broad as to be useless.
(and again, it ignores the part where getting gold in game isn't that hard. It's not something that only comes from spending $.)
...it also ignores the part where gear is only a small part of being a "top" player. Maintaining proper rotations, having a good grasp of animation canceling, maintaining proper buffs... someone can spend gold to get all the best gear, and still suck.
Hell, people have been paying gold for carries in games since vanilla WoW and before.3 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »prototypefb wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Probably OP is concerned that if some people want to dominate trading market they may just sell 100k+ crowns for 30mil+ and bid for good trader which will leave out other guilds who earned let's say 20mil from trading and member donations. This scenario is probably possible and even takes place in reality (remember those strange guilds which are appearing in deshaan with poor listings for couple of weeks and then vanishing god knows where), but now there is not so big demand for crowns to make that an issue.
Still if we talk about established trading guilds and if they have rich IRL members, those guilds will have strong advantage and it will be literally P2W (in terms of trading place and prestige).
i don't see any1 spending rl money to hire a guild trader... seems far fetched.
if they do, then they must hate opposing guild very much and i feel for them(not rly, idc).
tipically large guild alliances conspire and bid on weak opponent spots to hurt competition and possibly get the spot in new upcomming guild of their own in future.
You probably didn't play other MMO's. Rich or even not so rich guys sometimes may spent their entire salary to get that fancy item or skin, and cost might be much higher then those 100k crowns. In ESO's case it's whole guild, prestige and respectable place. So if such person lands in ESO, only thing that prevents him from dominating trading spots is that demand for crown gifts is not so big to provide stable sales of hundred thousands of crowns.
how many trading spots can a single person feasibly dominate? bidding is once a week - how long are they are going to manage to do that? and for how long? and most importantly - WHY??
I really don't know why, but if those people are buying skins for weapons for 20k$, why they can't buy all mundus stones and trading spot in deshaan for a month and lure full guild of people during that period with tax return incentive and so just create new trading guild out of nowhere, which will hurt medium-level guilds since their people will now sell some if not majority of their stuff in that new guild?
Same for housing. If you not consider housing and trading as "crafting" sort of end-game, then this is not P2W, but for "honest" traders it's exactly what it is. Something you spent year on, can be just bought by somebody in few days.1 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Crown store items for gold is pure P2W.
You can't buy BiS gear in crown store, you can't buy it for gold either (two exceptions are the gold trader once per week and buying stuff from group members in trials/dungeons), so you literally CANNOT win by paying. Doesn't even matter if gold or crowns. Everything you can buy is usually not hard to get or it doesn't give you any advantage at all.
What is really happening here is that you simply dislike ingame stores, hence "I refuse to touch Crown Store exclusive motifs. I would rather they didn't exist at all" (crown store has a lot of exclusive stuff, not just motifs), and you'd like to ignore it all together but it became harder since people are able to buy those exclusive things with their gold. And that's outrageous! They shouldn't! PLEASE STAPH THEM!
It's okay to dislike things you do not agree with but at least be honest with yourself and don't cover it with pay-to-win label. It's getting old.
Of course You can buy BiS gear for gold. Even BoP one. Have You ever heared about carry runs ? You know what is the currency there ? Gold. You can easily get for example perfected siroria/relequen by paying for being carried like a bag of potatoes and getting all the loot. You can pay for vDSA carry runs and get master dual wield , destro staff or bow or perfected asulym destro staff in vAS HM without even knowing mechanics of vDSA or vAS and practicing it at all and those mentioned weapons are part of many BiS PvP setups that will give You many times adventage over players who dont have them. You can buy rare items that normally You would spend weeks or months on farming and retraiting just by buying them already with perfect traits for the gold You earned in few minutes by selling crowns.
The only BiS items You cannot get faster by spending the gold atm are maelstrom weapons. Rest You can simply get by paying for it directly or through carry runs. Especially when new update hits and there are new meta setups those players paying real life money for the gold and buying those BiS items for the gold are getting real adventage over people who play game normally and do not have accumulated large amounts of gold which takes some time to accomplish.
I personally know someone who is selling crowns for gold and he openly says "why should I spend time on playing the game the way I dont like and farm or progress through stuff , if I can just take weekend shift in my job which isnt even hard because in weekends there isnt much to do and for money I'll earn I can get everything I need in the game way faster then it would take normally"
Definition of pay to win You've linked describes excatly what's happening in ESO through gifting. You can buy the gold for real money and get certain BiS items instantly while there are "those playing for free who might otherwise need to spend time progressing in order to unlock said items". If that is definition of p2w then ESO is game with p2w element within.
Is it really all that game breaking that some people are willing to exchange real money for gold via crowns and then use that gold to get carried through a dungeon to get Bis gear?
I just don't see where this is a big deal. In full disclosure, I have not used the crowns for gold process as I have accumulated a few million in gold already and I can't find anything to spend it on as it is. I donate a bunch to my trading guild and make about 500,000 a week just doing crafting writs and simple adventuring.
It's not about is it or is it not game breaking but is p2w element exist or not. Some people will say it's game breaking some will say it isnt but it's not the point of discussion here.
I think Your point of view here is slightly blurred because You look at that subject from the perspective of someone who have been playing for a long time and actively been doing things bringing benefit. How long it took You to get to that point though ? Because now other people can get to that point in few hours without even playing the game. That is the difference that brings concerns.
Why does it bring concerns that someone can achieve it faster than I did? Why would one even care that someone else has the same thing quicker?
I've enjoyed the game a long while and have built 8 very distinctive adventurers / crafters. Other people want certain things faster so they can jump right into PvP or end game trials. Why would I have a porblem with that if I am enjoying my aspects of the game?
a PvPer that has "bought" Bis gear through carries is easy to see on the battlefield - they are the ones needing a res...
You still dont get the point. It's not about why You should or shouldnt care. It's simply about is it or is it not p2w element in the game. If we would talk about feelings from someones perspective then I am sure that even if ZoS would add some new unique weapons that would be very strong in PvP and only obtainable in crown store there would be still few people saying "why should I care I dont play PvP anyway and I enjoy what I am doing so everything is fine". Other people would be outraged and in both cases that would be the feelings not the facts and the facts are it would be pay to win. Fact those things doesnt affect You or Your feelings doesnt instantly mean it cannot be called p2w.
Even if getting best setups possible can be obtained by both paying or playing and both ways will bring You to similar results there will be still players playing to win or paying to win so pay to win element exist.
Trust me, I get your point - I simply disagree with it.1 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »I think its worth noting that as the gold received is from other players, this does not, in fact, increase inflation. So most of your complaints, like the one about it raising guild trader prices, are false or at-least not very obviously linked to this.
It can actually cause inflation. There could be more money being spent as people with money sitting around doing nothing use it to buy crown items.
I have a lot of gold I don't use. If you don't do housing and aren't spending on consumables and BiS BoE gear, gold just accumulates if you are an active seller.1 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
By giving Your feeling not the facts as an argument.Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Crown store items for gold is pure P2W.
You can't buy BiS gear in crown store, you can't buy it for gold either (two exceptions are the gold trader once per week and buying stuff from group members in trials/dungeons), so you literally CANNOT win by paying. Doesn't even matter if gold or crowns. Everything you can buy is usually not hard to get or it doesn't give you any advantage at all.
What is really happening here is that you simply dislike ingame stores, hence "I refuse to touch Crown Store exclusive motifs. I would rather they didn't exist at all" (crown store has a lot of exclusive stuff, not just motifs), and you'd like to ignore it all together but it became harder since people are able to buy those exclusive things with their gold. And that's outrageous! They shouldn't! PLEASE STAPH THEM!
It's okay to dislike things you do not agree with but at least be honest with yourself and don't cover it with pay-to-win label. It's getting old.
Of course You can buy BiS gear for gold. Even BoP one. Have You ever heared about carry runs ? You know what is the currency there ? Gold. You can easily get for example perfected siroria/relequen by paying for being carried like a bag of potatoes and getting all the loot. You can pay for vDSA carry runs and get master dual wield , destro staff or bow or perfected asulym destro staff in vAS HM without even knowing mechanics of vDSA or vAS and practicing it at all and those mentioned weapons are part of many BiS PvP setups that will give You many times adventage over players who dont have them. You can buy rare items that normally You would spend weeks or months on farming and retraiting just by buying them already with perfect traits for the gold You earned in few minutes by selling crowns.
The only BiS items You cannot get faster by spending the gold atm are maelstrom weapons. Rest You can simply get by paying for it directly or through carry runs. Especially when new update hits and there are new meta setups those players paying real life money for the gold and buying those BiS items for the gold are getting real adventage over people who play game normally and do not have accumulated large amounts of gold which takes some time to accomplish.
I personally know someone who is selling crowns for gold and he openly says "why should I spend time on playing the game the way I dont like and farm or progress through stuff , if I can just take weekend shift in my job which isnt even hard because in weekends there isnt much to do and for money I'll earn I can get everything I need in the game way faster then it would take normally"
Definition of pay to win You've linked describes excatly what's happening in ESO through gifting. You can buy the gold for real money and get certain BiS items instantly while there are "those playing for free who might otherwise need to spend time progressing in order to unlock said items". If that is definition of p2w then ESO is game with p2w element within.
Is it really all that game breaking that some people are willing to exchange real money for gold via crowns and then use that gold to get carried through a dungeon to get Bis gear?
I just don't see where this is a big deal. In full disclosure, I have not used the crowns for gold process as I have accumulated a few million in gold already and I can't find anything to spend it on as it is. I donate a bunch to my trading guild and make about 500,000 a week just doing crafting writs and simple adventuring.
It's not about is it or is it not game breaking but is p2w element exist or not. Some people will say it's game breaking some will say it isnt but it's not the point of discussion here.
I think Your point of view here is slightly blurred because You look at that subject from the perspective of someone who have been playing for a long time and actively been doing things bringing benefit. How long it took You to get to that point though ? Because now other people can get to that point in few hours without even playing the game. That is the difference that brings concerns.
Why does it bring concerns that someone can achieve it faster than I did? Why would one even care that someone else has the same thing quicker?
I've enjoyed the game a long while and have built 8 very distinctive adventurers / crafters. Other people want certain things faster so they can jump right into PvP or end game trials. Why would I have a porblem with that if I am enjoying my aspects of the game?
a PvPer that has "bought" Bis gear through carries is easy to see on the battlefield - they are the ones needing a res...
You still dont get the point. It's not about why You should or shouldnt care. It's simply about is it or is it not p2w element in the game. If we would talk about feelings from someones perspective then I am sure that even if ZoS would add some new unique weapons that would be very strong in PvP and only obtainable in crown store there would be still few people saying "why should I care I dont play PvP anyway and I enjoy what I am doing so everything is fine". Other people would be outraged and in both cases that would be the feelings not the facts and the facts are it would be pay to win. Fact those things doesnt affect You or Your feelings doesnt instantly mean it cannot be called p2w.
Even if getting best setups possible can be obtained by both paying or playing and both ways will bring You to similar results there will be still players playing to win or paying to win so pay to win element exist.
Trust me, I get your point - I simply disagree with it.0 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
By giving Your feeling not the facts as an argument.Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Crown store items for gold is pure P2W.
You can't buy BiS gear in crown store, you can't buy it for gold either (two exceptions are the gold trader once per week and buying stuff from group members in trials/dungeons), so you literally CANNOT win by paying. Doesn't even matter if gold or crowns. Everything you can buy is usually not hard to get or it doesn't give you any advantage at all.
What is really happening here is that you simply dislike ingame stores, hence "I refuse to touch Crown Store exclusive motifs. I would rather they didn't exist at all" (crown store has a lot of exclusive stuff, not just motifs), and you'd like to ignore it all together but it became harder since people are able to buy those exclusive things with their gold. And that's outrageous! They shouldn't! PLEASE STAPH THEM!
It's okay to dislike things you do not agree with but at least be honest with yourself and don't cover it with pay-to-win label. It's getting old.
Of course You can buy BiS gear for gold. Even BoP one. Have You ever heared about carry runs ? You know what is the currency there ? Gold. You can easily get for example perfected siroria/relequen by paying for being carried like a bag of potatoes and getting all the loot. You can pay for vDSA carry runs and get master dual wield , destro staff or bow or perfected asulym destro staff in vAS HM without even knowing mechanics of vDSA or vAS and practicing it at all and those mentioned weapons are part of many BiS PvP setups that will give You many times adventage over players who dont have them. You can buy rare items that normally You would spend weeks or months on farming and retraiting just by buying them already with perfect traits for the gold You earned in few minutes by selling crowns.
The only BiS items You cannot get faster by spending the gold atm are maelstrom weapons. Rest You can simply get by paying for it directly or through carry runs. Especially when new update hits and there are new meta setups those players paying real life money for the gold and buying those BiS items for the gold are getting real adventage over people who play game normally and do not have accumulated large amounts of gold which takes some time to accomplish.
I personally know someone who is selling crowns for gold and he openly says "why should I spend time on playing the game the way I dont like and farm or progress through stuff , if I can just take weekend shift in my job which isnt even hard because in weekends there isnt much to do and for money I'll earn I can get everything I need in the game way faster then it would take normally"
Definition of pay to win You've linked describes excatly what's happening in ESO through gifting. You can buy the gold for real money and get certain BiS items instantly while there are "those playing for free who might otherwise need to spend time progressing in order to unlock said items". If that is definition of p2w then ESO is game with p2w element within.
Is it really all that game breaking that some people are willing to exchange real money for gold via crowns and then use that gold to get carried through a dungeon to get Bis gear?
I just don't see where this is a big deal. In full disclosure, I have not used the crowns for gold process as I have accumulated a few million in gold already and I can't find anything to spend it on as it is. I donate a bunch to my trading guild and make about 500,000 a week just doing crafting writs and simple adventuring.
It's not about is it or is it not game breaking but is p2w element exist or not. Some people will say it's game breaking some will say it isnt but it's not the point of discussion here.
I think Your point of view here is slightly blurred because You look at that subject from the perspective of someone who have been playing for a long time and actively been doing things bringing benefit. How long it took You to get to that point though ? Because now other people can get to that point in few hours without even playing the game. That is the difference that brings concerns.
Why does it bring concerns that someone can achieve it faster than I did? Why would one even care that someone else has the same thing quicker?
I've enjoyed the game a long while and have built 8 very distinctive adventurers / crafters. Other people want certain things faster so they can jump right into PvP or end game trials. Why would I have a porblem with that if I am enjoying my aspects of the game?
a PvPer that has "bought" Bis gear through carries is easy to see on the battlefield - they are the ones needing a res...
You still dont get the point. It's not about why You should or shouldnt care. It's simply about is it or is it not p2w element in the game. If we would talk about feelings from someones perspective then I am sure that even if ZoS would add some new unique weapons that would be very strong in PvP and only obtainable in crown store there would be still few people saying "why should I care I dont play PvP anyway and I enjoy what I am doing so everything is fine". Other people would be outraged and in both cases that would be the feelings not the facts and the facts are it would be pay to win. Fact those things doesnt affect You or Your feelings doesnt instantly mean it cannot be called p2w.
Even if getting best setups possible can be obtained by both paying or playing and both ways will bring You to similar results there will be still players playing to win or paying to win so pay to win element exist.
Trust me, I get your point - I simply disagree with it.
Ok scooter, here are the facts.
There is nothing that you can buy with in game gold that will give you an UNFAIR advantage over any other player. It can only shorten the time it takes to acquire the item and leaves you at the possible disadvantage of not having the skills to use the item in question effectively.
The other example of getting a better guild trader spot is a stretch, but if someone wants to dump real life cash to get a trader in Wayrest - I say a fool and his money are soon parted.4 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I always find the P2W/not P2W arguments silly. Who cares what labels apply? Let's understand what is going on and see what we think about it.
For example, say players A and B only have about 4 hours a week to play. Both love PvP. Player A and B have played about the same amount over the years, but player A is way more powerful than player B because they bought gold with crowns that they use to buy gear that neither player had time to grind. Player A kills player B 80% of the time due to gear advantage.
I don't care if it is p2w or not. I am not taking a stand on whether this disparity is okay or not either. But let's understand that this situation happens because not everyone has BiS gear.Edited by DaveMoeDee on April 14, 2019 8:22PM0 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The gold currency is extremely useful, used for various purposes, such as: guild stores bidding, buying/upgrading gear, repair, crafting etc.
It is literally gold buying through the sale of crown store items, a form of P2W/Pay for Convenience.
While ZOS said it's fine to trade crown store item for gold, it became ridiculous how fast players were accumulating massive amounts of gold.
This is not P2W, even in the sense that you mean it: being able to upgrade gear, etc. The only items that need to be in legendary quality are weapons, the rest can be purple, and a player will still be fine. Someone might have millions in the game, but that doesn't necessarily make them a winner, in the sense of clearing content, getting achievements, and so on. I'll concede there is a gray area where 'carry runs' are concerned, such that people with a lot of gold can pay to be carried, and that's something I personally disagree with, but it's not necessary that they got the gold by selling crowns, so it would be unfair to condemn the crown gift system just for that point (also, people bought 'carries' before the gifting feature anyway). The only thing I would hold against crown gifting is that it promotes crown crate business... people who wouldn't ordinarily buy the crates with actual money, can now get them with in-game gold, thus making crates a success for ZOS and perpetuating their existence. I'm also guilty of this, but I have also bought other crown store items with gold, and at least for the latter, it's a great feature, because I wouldn't have been able to acquire these items otherwise, so I'm glad that there are people willing to sell crowns and buy gold. In the end of the day, every feature can be exploited or used in unintended ways with unintended outcomes, and it lies in individuals and their personal ethics how they interact with said feature.1 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »
By giving Your feeling not the facts as an argument.Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Crown store items for gold is pure P2W.
You can't buy BiS gear in crown store, you can't buy it for gold either (two exceptions are the gold trader once per week and buying stuff from group members in trials/dungeons), so you literally CANNOT win by paying. Doesn't even matter if gold or crowns. Everything you can buy is usually not hard to get or it doesn't give you any advantage at all.
What is really happening here is that you simply dislike ingame stores, hence "I refuse to touch Crown Store exclusive motifs. I would rather they didn't exist at all" (crown store has a lot of exclusive stuff, not just motifs), and you'd like to ignore it all together but it became harder since people are able to buy those exclusive things with their gold. And that's outrageous! They shouldn't! PLEASE STAPH THEM!
It's okay to dislike things you do not agree with but at least be honest with yourself and don't cover it with pay-to-win label. It's getting old.
Of course You can buy BiS gear for gold. Even BoP one. Have You ever heared about carry runs ? You know what is the currency there ? Gold. You can easily get for example perfected siroria/relequen by paying for being carried like a bag of potatoes and getting all the loot. You can pay for vDSA carry runs and get master dual wield , destro staff or bow or perfected asulym destro staff in vAS HM without even knowing mechanics of vDSA or vAS and practicing it at all and those mentioned weapons are part of many BiS PvP setups that will give You many times adventage over players who dont have them. You can buy rare items that normally You would spend weeks or months on farming and retraiting just by buying them already with perfect traits for the gold You earned in few minutes by selling crowns.
The only BiS items You cannot get faster by spending the gold atm are maelstrom weapons. Rest You can simply get by paying for it directly or through carry runs. Especially when new update hits and there are new meta setups those players paying real life money for the gold and buying those BiS items for the gold are getting real adventage over people who play game normally and do not have accumulated large amounts of gold which takes some time to accomplish.
I personally know someone who is selling crowns for gold and he openly says "why should I spend time on playing the game the way I dont like and farm or progress through stuff , if I can just take weekend shift in my job which isnt even hard because in weekends there isnt much to do and for money I'll earn I can get everything I need in the game way faster then it would take normally"
Definition of pay to win You've linked describes excatly what's happening in ESO through gifting. You can buy the gold for real money and get certain BiS items instantly while there are "those playing for free who might otherwise need to spend time progressing in order to unlock said items". If that is definition of p2w then ESO is game with p2w element within.
Is it really all that game breaking that some people are willing to exchange real money for gold via crowns and then use that gold to get carried through a dungeon to get Bis gear?
I just don't see where this is a big deal. In full disclosure, I have not used the crowns for gold process as I have accumulated a few million in gold already and I can't find anything to spend it on as it is. I donate a bunch to my trading guild and make about 500,000 a week just doing crafting writs and simple adventuring.
It's not about is it or is it not game breaking but is p2w element exist or not. Some people will say it's game breaking some will say it isnt but it's not the point of discussion here.
I think Your point of view here is slightly blurred because You look at that subject from the perspective of someone who have been playing for a long time and actively been doing things bringing benefit. How long it took You to get to that point though ? Because now other people can get to that point in few hours without even playing the game. That is the difference that brings concerns.
Why does it bring concerns that someone can achieve it faster than I did? Why would one even care that someone else has the same thing quicker?
I've enjoyed the game a long while and have built 8 very distinctive adventurers / crafters. Other people want certain things faster so they can jump right into PvP or end game trials. Why would I have a porblem with that if I am enjoying my aspects of the game?
a PvPer that has "bought" Bis gear through carries is easy to see on the battlefield - they are the ones needing a res...
You still dont get the point. It's not about why You should or shouldnt care. It's simply about is it or is it not p2w element in the game. If we would talk about feelings from someones perspective then I am sure that even if ZoS would add some new unique weapons that would be very strong in PvP and only obtainable in crown store there would be still few people saying "why should I care I dont play PvP anyway and I enjoy what I am doing so everything is fine". Other people would be outraged and in both cases that would be the feelings not the facts and the facts are it would be pay to win. Fact those things doesnt affect You or Your feelings doesnt instantly mean it cannot be called p2w.
Even if getting best setups possible can be obtained by both paying or playing and both ways will bring You to similar results there will be still players playing to win or paying to win so pay to win element exist.
Trust me, I get your point - I simply disagree with it.
Ok scooter, here are the facts.
There is nothing that you can buy with in game gold that will give you an UNFAIR advantage over any other player. It can only shorten the time it takes to acquire the item and leaves you at the possible disadvantage of not having the skills to use the item in question effectively.
The other example of getting a better guild trader spot is a stretch, but if someone wants to dump real life cash to get a trader in Wayrest - I say a fool and his money are soon parted.
But who said pay to win exists only when it is giving "unfair adventage" and not just an adventage ? Have You seen the original post I was responding to and wikipedia definition of pay to win there ? You just further prove that You've missed the point and took things out of context.0 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »
By giving Your feeling not the facts as an argument.Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Crown store items for gold is pure P2W.
You can't buy BiS gear in crown store, you can't buy it for gold either (two exceptions are the gold trader once per week and buying stuff from group members in trials/dungeons), so you literally CANNOT win by paying. Doesn't even matter if gold or crowns. Everything you can buy is usually not hard to get or it doesn't give you any advantage at all.
What is really happening here is that you simply dislike ingame stores, hence "I refuse to touch Crown Store exclusive motifs. I would rather they didn't exist at all" (crown store has a lot of exclusive stuff, not just motifs), and you'd like to ignore it all together but it became harder since people are able to buy those exclusive things with their gold. And that's outrageous! They shouldn't! PLEASE STAPH THEM!
It's okay to dislike things you do not agree with but at least be honest with yourself and don't cover it with pay-to-win label. It's getting old.
Of course You can buy BiS gear for gold. Even BoP one. Have You ever heared about carry runs ? You know what is the currency there ? Gold. You can easily get for example perfected siroria/relequen by paying for being carried like a bag of potatoes and getting all the loot. You can pay for vDSA carry runs and get master dual wield , destro staff or bow or perfected asulym destro staff in vAS HM without even knowing mechanics of vDSA or vAS and practicing it at all and those mentioned weapons are part of many BiS PvP setups that will give You many times adventage over players who dont have them. You can buy rare items that normally You would spend weeks or months on farming and retraiting just by buying them already with perfect traits for the gold You earned in few minutes by selling crowns.
The only BiS items You cannot get faster by spending the gold atm are maelstrom weapons. Rest You can simply get by paying for it directly or through carry runs. Especially when new update hits and there are new meta setups those players paying real life money for the gold and buying those BiS items for the gold are getting real adventage over people who play game normally and do not have accumulated large amounts of gold which takes some time to accomplish.
I personally know someone who is selling crowns for gold and he openly says "why should I spend time on playing the game the way I dont like and farm or progress through stuff , if I can just take weekend shift in my job which isnt even hard because in weekends there isnt much to do and for money I'll earn I can get everything I need in the game way faster then it would take normally"
Definition of pay to win You've linked describes excatly what's happening in ESO through gifting. You can buy the gold for real money and get certain BiS items instantly while there are "those playing for free who might otherwise need to spend time progressing in order to unlock said items". If that is definition of p2w then ESO is game with p2w element within.
Is it really all that game breaking that some people are willing to exchange real money for gold via crowns and then use that gold to get carried through a dungeon to get Bis gear?
I just don't see where this is a big deal. In full disclosure, I have not used the crowns for gold process as I have accumulated a few million in gold already and I can't find anything to spend it on as it is. I donate a bunch to my trading guild and make about 500,000 a week just doing crafting writs and simple adventuring.
It's not about is it or is it not game breaking but is p2w element exist or not. Some people will say it's game breaking some will say it isnt but it's not the point of discussion here.
I think Your point of view here is slightly blurred because You look at that subject from the perspective of someone who have been playing for a long time and actively been doing things bringing benefit. How long it took You to get to that point though ? Because now other people can get to that point in few hours without even playing the game. That is the difference that brings concerns.
Why does it bring concerns that someone can achieve it faster than I did? Why would one even care that someone else has the same thing quicker?
I've enjoyed the game a long while and have built 8 very distinctive adventurers / crafters. Other people want certain things faster so they can jump right into PvP or end game trials. Why would I have a porblem with that if I am enjoying my aspects of the game?
a PvPer that has "bought" Bis gear through carries is easy to see on the battlefield - they are the ones needing a res...
You still dont get the point. It's not about why You should or shouldnt care. It's simply about is it or is it not p2w element in the game. If we would talk about feelings from someones perspective then I am sure that even if ZoS would add some new unique weapons that would be very strong in PvP and only obtainable in crown store there would be still few people saying "why should I care I dont play PvP anyway and I enjoy what I am doing so everything is fine". Other people would be outraged and in both cases that would be the feelings not the facts and the facts are it would be pay to win. Fact those things doesnt affect You or Your feelings doesnt instantly mean it cannot be called p2w.
Even if getting best setups possible can be obtained by both paying or playing and both ways will bring You to similar results there will be still players playing to win or paying to win so pay to win element exist.
Trust me, I get your point - I simply disagree with it.
Ok scooter, here are the facts.
There is nothing that you can buy with in game gold that will give you an UNFAIR advantage over any other player. It can only shorten the time it takes to acquire the item and leaves you at the possible disadvantage of not having the skills to use the item in question effectively.
The other example of getting a better guild trader spot is a stretch, but if someone wants to dump real life cash to get a trader in Wayrest - I say a fool and his money are soon parted.
But who said pay to win exists only when it is giving "unfair adventage" and not just an adventage ? Have You seen the original post I was responding to and wikipedia definition of pay to win there ? You just further prove that You've missed the point and took things out of context.
Ok, I give up - you win. It's a horrible exploit and we should restrict it immediately and ban anyone that uses a process that the company that designed the game purposefully implemented
0 -
Mitrenga✭✭✭✭✭Currency buying is a cancer for many MMOs and ZoS found a relatively player-sided way compared to other MMOs and managed to profit from it as well.
If a game has been around for quite some time, a large number of players can have millions of gold while the new players tend to look for ways to "catch up". GGG found a good way for keeping the balance on the market by setting seasons (non season Path of Exile's item prices are... bizarre at best). Blizzard found a way by saying let it rain for everybody and ZoS has this... many examples can be found. It's a gray area and I agree with some of your points but it is what it is. As long as there is a demand for gold and crown store items, balance should be found and this is what ZoS is doing at the moment. Looking at the zone chat activity, most of the player base is happy.0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »
By giving Your feeling not the facts as an argument.Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Crown store items for gold is pure P2W.
You can't buy BiS gear in crown store, you can't buy it for gold either (two exceptions are the gold trader once per week and buying stuff from group members in trials/dungeons), so you literally CANNOT win by paying. Doesn't even matter if gold or crowns. Everything you can buy is usually not hard to get or it doesn't give you any advantage at all.
What is really happening here is that you simply dislike ingame stores, hence "I refuse to touch Crown Store exclusive motifs. I would rather they didn't exist at all" (crown store has a lot of exclusive stuff, not just motifs), and you'd like to ignore it all together but it became harder since people are able to buy those exclusive things with their gold. And that's outrageous! They shouldn't! PLEASE STAPH THEM!
It's okay to dislike things you do not agree with but at least be honest with yourself and don't cover it with pay-to-win label. It's getting old.
Of course You can buy BiS gear for gold. Even BoP one. Have You ever heared about carry runs ? You know what is the currency there ? Gold. You can easily get for example perfected siroria/relequen by paying for being carried like a bag of potatoes and getting all the loot. You can pay for vDSA carry runs and get master dual wield , destro staff or bow or perfected asulym destro staff in vAS HM without even knowing mechanics of vDSA or vAS and practicing it at all and those mentioned weapons are part of many BiS PvP setups that will give You many times adventage over players who dont have them. You can buy rare items that normally You would spend weeks or months on farming and retraiting just by buying them already with perfect traits for the gold You earned in few minutes by selling crowns.
The only BiS items You cannot get faster by spending the gold atm are maelstrom weapons. Rest You can simply get by paying for it directly or through carry runs. Especially when new update hits and there are new meta setups those players paying real life money for the gold and buying those BiS items for the gold are getting real adventage over people who play game normally and do not have accumulated large amounts of gold which takes some time to accomplish.
I personally know someone who is selling crowns for gold and he openly says "why should I spend time on playing the game the way I dont like and farm or progress through stuff , if I can just take weekend shift in my job which isnt even hard because in weekends there isnt much to do and for money I'll earn I can get everything I need in the game way faster then it would take normally"
Definition of pay to win You've linked describes excatly what's happening in ESO through gifting. You can buy the gold for real money and get certain BiS items instantly while there are "those playing for free who might otherwise need to spend time progressing in order to unlock said items". If that is definition of p2w then ESO is game with p2w element within.
Is it really all that game breaking that some people are willing to exchange real money for gold via crowns and then use that gold to get carried through a dungeon to get Bis gear?
I just don't see where this is a big deal. In full disclosure, I have not used the crowns for gold process as I have accumulated a few million in gold already and I can't find anything to spend it on as it is. I donate a bunch to my trading guild and make about 500,000 a week just doing crafting writs and simple adventuring.
It's not about is it or is it not game breaking but is p2w element exist or not. Some people will say it's game breaking some will say it isnt but it's not the point of discussion here.
I think Your point of view here is slightly blurred because You look at that subject from the perspective of someone who have been playing for a long time and actively been doing things bringing benefit. How long it took You to get to that point though ? Because now other people can get to that point in few hours without even playing the game. That is the difference that brings concerns.
Why does it bring concerns that someone can achieve it faster than I did? Why would one even care that someone else has the same thing quicker?
I've enjoyed the game a long while and have built 8 very distinctive adventurers / crafters. Other people want certain things faster so they can jump right into PvP or end game trials. Why would I have a porblem with that if I am enjoying my aspects of the game?
a PvPer that has "bought" Bis gear through carries is easy to see on the battlefield - they are the ones needing a res...
You still dont get the point. It's not about why You should or shouldnt care. It's simply about is it or is it not p2w element in the game. If we would talk about feelings from someones perspective then I am sure that even if ZoS would add some new unique weapons that would be very strong in PvP and only obtainable in crown store there would be still few people saying "why should I care I dont play PvP anyway and I enjoy what I am doing so everything is fine". Other people would be outraged and in both cases that would be the feelings not the facts and the facts are it would be pay to win. Fact those things doesnt affect You or Your feelings doesnt instantly mean it cannot be called p2w.
Even if getting best setups possible can be obtained by both paying or playing and both ways will bring You to similar results there will be still players playing to win or paying to win so pay to win element exist.
Trust me, I get your point - I simply disagree with it.
Ok scooter, here are the facts.
There is nothing that you can buy with in game gold that will give you an UNFAIR advantage over any other player. It can only shorten the time it takes to acquire the item and leaves you at the possible disadvantage of not having the skills to use the item in question effectively.
The other example of getting a better guild trader spot is a stretch, but if someone wants to dump real life cash to get a trader in Wayrest - I say a fool and his money are soon parted.
But who said pay to win exists only when it is giving "unfair adventage" and not just an adventage ? Have You seen the original post I was responding to and wikipedia definition of pay to win there ? You just further prove that You've missed the point and took things out of context.
Ok, I give up - you win. It's a horrible exploit and we should restrict it immediately and ban anyone that uses a process that the company that designed the game purposefully implemented
I never said or suggested anything close to that. You continue to prove You're missing the point.0 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The worst part about this feature is that people can buy achievement runs through crown-earned gold.
But I'd say that's a small price to pay. The people selling the achievement run are getting their gold and whoever sold the gold got neat crown store items without needing to cough up some cash and ZOS got their money. It's a win-win-win-win with only one person involved needing to feel ashamed for buying achievements.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.1 -
Genomic✭✭✭✭✭This in itself is not such a bad thing, but it is a continuation of ZOS incrementally turning up the temp to boil the frog. This game has had so many sneaky monetization and P2W-but-not-really elements added bit by bit over time. What will the end point look like? It will happen so gradually that most of us won't even realise it's happening.
0 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The worst part about this feature is that people can buy achievement runs through crown-earned gold.
But I'd say that's a small price to pay. The people selling the achievement run are getting their gold and whoever sold the gold got neat crown store items without needing to cough up some cash and ZOS got their money. It's a win-win-win-win with only one person involved needing to feel ashamed for buying achievements.
not true, because if i know the people in my guild and thier nice and do it for me for FREE, i never had to pay gold for that item, i got carried by the guild till i got the weapon i wanted and no money was used, it was FREE.0 -
yRaven✭✭✭✭For me as a Brazilian Player it's the best thing that could have happened to me, buying a amount of let's say 1500 Crown is more expensive for us then buying a new Base game, the Gold/Crown Exchange system make the Crown store totally affordable for us, yes it's true that people are farming Gold (Me included), but this is only a problem to people with money that don't wanna people without money having the same things as them, for the rest, Zenimax already approved, there's a 24h ZOS Supporter on TCE Discord, so there's no way it's going down, that's my opinionJack of all trades. Master of at least one.
-
Àrës - Magicka Dragonknight (EP)
Persephónē - Magicka Warden (EP)
Athēna - Magicka Templar (EP)
Hādēs - Magicka Necromancer (EP)
Hërmës - Runner Troll (EP)2 -
woe✭✭✭✭KaraBela94 wrote: »So gaining Skins, Motifs, pets and mounts via CrownsForGold is P2W?
LUL...nothing from the Crownstore gives you a certain advantage over in-game items.
uwu1 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »
By giving Your feeling not the facts as an argument.Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Crown store items for gold is pure P2W.
You can't buy BiS gear in crown store, you can't buy it for gold either (two exceptions are the gold trader once per week and buying stuff from group members in trials/dungeons), so you literally CANNOT win by paying. Doesn't even matter if gold or crowns. Everything you can buy is usually not hard to get or it doesn't give you any advantage at all.
What is really happening here is that you simply dislike ingame stores, hence "I refuse to touch Crown Store exclusive motifs. I would rather they didn't exist at all" (crown store has a lot of exclusive stuff, not just motifs), and you'd like to ignore it all together but it became harder since people are able to buy those exclusive things with their gold. And that's outrageous! They shouldn't! PLEASE STAPH THEM!
It's okay to dislike things you do not agree with but at least be honest with yourself and don't cover it with pay-to-win label. It's getting old.
Of course You can buy BiS gear for gold. Even BoP one. Have You ever heared about carry runs ? You know what is the currency there ? Gold. You can easily get for example perfected siroria/relequen by paying for being carried like a bag of potatoes and getting all the loot. You can pay for vDSA carry runs and get master dual wield , destro staff or bow or perfected asulym destro staff in vAS HM without even knowing mechanics of vDSA or vAS and practicing it at all and those mentioned weapons are part of many BiS PvP setups that will give You many times adventage over players who dont have them. You can buy rare items that normally You would spend weeks or months on farming and retraiting just by buying them already with perfect traits for the gold You earned in few minutes by selling crowns.
The only BiS items You cannot get faster by spending the gold atm are maelstrom weapons. Rest You can simply get by paying for it directly or through carry runs. Especially when new update hits and there are new meta setups those players paying real life money for the gold and buying those BiS items for the gold are getting real adventage over people who play game normally and do not have accumulated large amounts of gold which takes some time to accomplish.
I personally know someone who is selling crowns for gold and he openly says "why should I spend time on playing the game the way I dont like and farm or progress through stuff , if I can just take weekend shift in my job which isnt even hard because in weekends there isnt much to do and for money I'll earn I can get everything I need in the game way faster then it would take normally"
Definition of pay to win You've linked describes excatly what's happening in ESO through gifting. You can buy the gold for real money and get certain BiS items instantly while there are "those playing for free who might otherwise need to spend time progressing in order to unlock said items". If that is definition of p2w then ESO is game with p2w element within.
Is it really all that game breaking that some people are willing to exchange real money for gold via crowns and then use that gold to get carried through a dungeon to get Bis gear?
I just don't see where this is a big deal. In full disclosure, I have not used the crowns for gold process as I have accumulated a few million in gold already and I can't find anything to spend it on as it is. I donate a bunch to my trading guild and make about 500,000 a week just doing crafting writs and simple adventuring.
It's not about is it or is it not game breaking but is p2w element exist or not. Some people will say it's game breaking some will say it isnt but it's not the point of discussion here.
I think Your point of view here is slightly blurred because You look at that subject from the perspective of someone who have been playing for a long time and actively been doing things bringing benefit. How long it took You to get to that point though ? Because now other people can get to that point in few hours without even playing the game. That is the difference that brings concerns.
Why does it bring concerns that someone can achieve it faster than I did? Why would one even care that someone else has the same thing quicker?
I've enjoyed the game a long while and have built 8 very distinctive adventurers / crafters. Other people want certain things faster so they can jump right into PvP or end game trials. Why would I have a porblem with that if I am enjoying my aspects of the game?
a PvPer that has "bought" Bis gear through carries is easy to see on the battlefield - they are the ones needing a res...
You still dont get the point. It's not about why You should or shouldnt care. It's simply about is it or is it not p2w element in the game. If we would talk about feelings from someones perspective then I am sure that even if ZoS would add some new unique weapons that would be very strong in PvP and only obtainable in crown store there would be still few people saying "why should I care I dont play PvP anyway and I enjoy what I am doing so everything is fine". Other people would be outraged and in both cases that would be the feelings not the facts and the facts are it would be pay to win. Fact those things doesnt affect You or Your feelings doesnt instantly mean it cannot be called p2w.
Even if getting best setups possible can be obtained by both paying or playing and both ways will bring You to similar results there will be still players playing to win or paying to win so pay to win element exist.
Trust me, I get your point - I simply disagree with it.
Ok scooter, here are the facts.
There is nothing that you can buy with in game gold that will give you an UNFAIR advantage over any other player. It can only shorten the time it takes to acquire the item and leaves you at the possible disadvantage of not having the skills to use the item in question effectively.
The other example of getting a better guild trader spot is a stretch, but if someone wants to dump real life cash to get a trader in Wayrest - I say a fool and his money are soon parted.
But who said pay to win exists only when it is giving "unfair adventage" and not just an adventage ? Have You seen the original post I was responding to and wikipedia definition of pay to win there ? You just further prove that You've missed the point and took things out of context.
Ok, I give up - you win. It's a horrible exploit and we should restrict it immediately and ban anyone that uses a process that the company that designed the game purposefully implemented
I never said or suggested anything close to that. You continue to prove You're missing the point.
You would actually have to have a point for me to miss. You are arguing simply to argue.2 -
Jameliel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hello,
Since Update 18 players are able to buy gold by real money by the following method:
1. Used their credit card to buy crown packs.
2. bought the crown store items.
3. They sold the items and received GOLD.
The gold currency is extremely useful, used for various purposes, such as: guild stores bidding, buying/upgrading gear, repair, crafting etc.
It is literally gold buying through the sale of crown store items, a form of P2W/Pay for Convenience.
While ZOS said it's fine to trade crown store item for gold, it became ridiculous how fast players were accumulating massive amounts of gold.
I believe that ZOS needs to change their mind about this and restrict or disallow it by some manner.
I suggested the following as the first step:
Please limit the number of gifts an account can deliver, for example:
1 gift of 1-500 crowns per week.
1 gift of 501-1,000 crowns per month.
1 gift of 1,001-1,500 crowns per 2 months.
1 gift of 1,501-3,000 crowns per 3 months.
1 gift of 3,001-5,000+ crowns per 6 months.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
I never participated in this form of trading and I believe it is inappropriate.
***Note: P2W/P2Convenience or not, it is harmful to ESO's game economy, such as: increasing inflation of prices, bids on guild traders are higher etc.
Please share your thoughts
ZOS is part of a corporation. Corporations have 1 singular goal>>>$$PROFIT$$. You think they will change something which will decrease their profits? Not a single person in charge cares what you or anyone else thinks. Most likely they have never read these forums, and are not even aware of how the game is actually played.Edited by Jameliel on April 14, 2019 9:19PM0 -
NupidStoob✭✭✭✭✭
It is not P2W.
If you really want to gripe about gold buying you would be complaining about how long it takes for Zos to ban bot accounts. That is where the real issue is so please get priorities straight.
On the topic of "ZoS never banning bots": On PC EU the prices for Dreugh Wax, Rubedo Leather and Aetherial dust have all been rising over the last couple months due to a bot banwave. I checked the farming places multiple times. Sadly the bots have already returned to their popular farming spots, but ZoS is regularly doing something about them. It's a stupid battle. ZoS is developing new software that registers bots and implements other preventative measures while bot creators look for ways around it. ZoS just doesn't announce that.
Also we don't know if ZoS just doesn't lower droprate of the bot accounts manually to miniscule values or in other way stops them from trading the items away. Obviously something slips through because otherwise bots wouldn't exist, but still there is definitely stuff being done behind the scenes.
2 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭This in itself is not such a bad thing, but it is a continuation of ZOS incrementally turning up the temp to boil the frog. This game has had so many sneaky monetization and P2W-but-not-really elements added bit by bit over time. What will the end point look like? It will happen so gradually that most of us won't even realise it's happening.
These elements gradually finding their way in is better than the game dying and servers closing, no?
I got a little bit hungry by reading your post btw..0 -
Wandering_Immigrant✭✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »Dragneel1207 wrote: »u r argument is flawed and the end game gear cant be bought in guild store
There is end game PvP gear that is BOE.
Not to mention where do people think those who pay for runs are getting their gold from?
I'll give a hint, if they can't be bothered to play the game's actually content then they surely can't be bothering to grind for gold either.0 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
How very feeble and shortsighted of you.
This allows people who are much less fortunate than most of us to buy items with pure ingame gold, therefore not restricting them from having cosmetic items that others can buy easily, just because we happen to have decent jobs.
People who are poor and don't have a choice in this money hungry society. People who got into tough life situations. People who just happen to be living in poor countries where even 15 dollars can be a lot of money. Take a friend of mine who's invalid and crippled. In his country he only gets around 200 dollars a month. With the price of just paying rent for 300. And he can't work cause a) nobody wants him b) he's physically unable to and c) it's illegal if you live on welfare there.
And you want to take this away, for what? Just because you're backside-hurt from someone who likely bought out something on you? That's harsh.
I say no to your proposal. No and no.
It's not pay to win at all, it may be pay for convenience, but it's hardly affecting as much as you're describing.
Let people have an alternative to spending real life money that they don't have, will you? AND let people who are fortunate to have the game their way. They in turn give others much more freedom.
Also, since you failed to demonstrate that you understand what pay to win means: it is buying otherwise unobtainable items/materials/consumables/etc. for real money, which grant players an unfair advantage over other players who cannot obtain such mentioned things by normal means, and would have to be forced to spend real money to keep up. That's not how ESO works. Not via gold trading and certainly not via crown store. Please stop.Edited by Nyladreas on April 14, 2019 10:43PM5 -
shaielzafine✭✭✭✭✭So what do you win from trading gold-crowns and vice versa? What advantage over other players? If it's cosmetic items like skins, etc then that's not pay to win. I've bought crown store items using in game gold through other players and on the discord server for that, there's a ZOS employee - Gina Bruno. Trading crowns - gold in game is acceptable because ZOS still makes money off of it. And you don't "win" anything. If you're also going to complain about people selling in game stuff like skin runs & emperor achievement & vet content clears, people have already been doing that for a long time even before they were able to trade their crowns for gold.
It's really easy to get millions of gold in this game if you're in a trading guild, and the only big gold "sinks" are: motifs / fashion and housing / furniture. The real end game is of course fashion / cosmetics & housing.0 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
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By giving Your feeling not the facts as an argument.Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Crown store items for gold is pure P2W.
You can't buy BiS gear in crown store, you can't buy it for gold either (two exceptions are the gold trader once per week and buying stuff from group members in trials/dungeons), so you literally CANNOT win by paying. Doesn't even matter if gold or crowns. Everything you can buy is usually not hard to get or it doesn't give you any advantage at all.
What is really happening here is that you simply dislike ingame stores, hence "I refuse to touch Crown Store exclusive motifs. I would rather they didn't exist at all" (crown store has a lot of exclusive stuff, not just motifs), and you'd like to ignore it all together but it became harder since people are able to buy those exclusive things with their gold. And that's outrageous! They shouldn't! PLEASE STAPH THEM!
It's okay to dislike things you do not agree with but at least be honest with yourself and don't cover it with pay-to-win label. It's getting old.
Of course You can buy BiS gear for gold. Even BoP one. Have You ever heared about carry runs ? You know what is the currency there ? Gold. You can easily get for example perfected siroria/relequen by paying for being carried like a bag of potatoes and getting all the loot. You can pay for vDSA carry runs and get master dual wield , destro staff or bow or perfected asulym destro staff in vAS HM without even knowing mechanics of vDSA or vAS and practicing it at all and those mentioned weapons are part of many BiS PvP setups that will give You many times adventage over players who dont have them. You can buy rare items that normally You would spend weeks or months on farming and retraiting just by buying them already with perfect traits for the gold You earned in few minutes by selling crowns.
The only BiS items You cannot get faster by spending the gold atm are maelstrom weapons. Rest You can simply get by paying for it directly or through carry runs. Especially when new update hits and there are new meta setups those players paying real life money for the gold and buying those BiS items for the gold are getting real adventage over people who play game normally and do not have accumulated large amounts of gold which takes some time to accomplish.
I personally know someone who is selling crowns for gold and he openly says "why should I spend time on playing the game the way I dont like and farm or progress through stuff , if I can just take weekend shift in my job which isnt even hard because in weekends there isnt much to do and for money I'll earn I can get everything I need in the game way faster then it would take normally"
Definition of pay to win You've linked describes excatly what's happening in ESO through gifting. You can buy the gold for real money and get certain BiS items instantly while there are "those playing for free who might otherwise need to spend time progressing in order to unlock said items". If that is definition of p2w then ESO is game with p2w element within.
Is it really all that game breaking that some people are willing to exchange real money for gold via crowns and then use that gold to get carried through a dungeon to get Bis gear?
I just don't see where this is a big deal. In full disclosure, I have not used the crowns for gold process as I have accumulated a few million in gold already and I can't find anything to spend it on as it is. I donate a bunch to my trading guild and make about 500,000 a week just doing crafting writs and simple adventuring.
It's not about is it or is it not game breaking but is p2w element exist or not. Some people will say it's game breaking some will say it isnt but it's not the point of discussion here.
I think Your point of view here is slightly blurred because You look at that subject from the perspective of someone who have been playing for a long time and actively been doing things bringing benefit. How long it took You to get to that point though ? Because now other people can get to that point in few hours without even playing the game. That is the difference that brings concerns.
Why does it bring concerns that someone can achieve it faster than I did? Why would one even care that someone else has the same thing quicker?
I've enjoyed the game a long while and have built 8 very distinctive adventurers / crafters. Other people want certain things faster so they can jump right into PvP or end game trials. Why would I have a porblem with that if I am enjoying my aspects of the game?
a PvPer that has "bought" Bis gear through carries is easy to see on the battlefield - they are the ones needing a res...
You still dont get the point. It's not about why You should or shouldnt care. It's simply about is it or is it not p2w element in the game. If we would talk about feelings from someones perspective then I am sure that even if ZoS would add some new unique weapons that would be very strong in PvP and only obtainable in crown store there would be still few people saying "why should I care I dont play PvP anyway and I enjoy what I am doing so everything is fine". Other people would be outraged and in both cases that would be the feelings not the facts and the facts are it would be pay to win. Fact those things doesnt affect You or Your feelings doesnt instantly mean it cannot be called p2w.
Even if getting best setups possible can be obtained by both paying or playing and both ways will bring You to similar results there will be still players playing to win or paying to win so pay to win element exist.
Trust me, I get your point - I simply disagree with it.
Dude what? Such ridiculous hypocrisy.1 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The worst part about this feature is that people can buy achievement runs through crown-earned gold.
But I'd say that's a small price to pay. The people selling the achievement run are getting their gold and whoever sold the gold got neat crown store items without needing to cough up some cash and ZOS got their money. It's a win-win-win-win with only one person involved needing to feel ashamed for buying achievements.
not true, because if i know the people in my guild and thier nice and do it for me for FREE, i never had to pay gold for that item, i got carried by the guild till i got the weapon i wanted and no money was used, it was FREE.
@Gilvoth Your point being? If someone is selling and someone is happy to pay and they are both happy with their deal, who are you to try and stop them? Your friends don't lose anything because others sell these things and the person paying is free to get friends that do it for free too. If you don't have friends that can complete it, get some more friends that can or git gud. Nobody is forced to pay gold and nobody is being exploited. Some people prefer a shortcut and I am glad that the way this system works right now gives them that while benefitting others but not disadvantaging the non-participants. It only harms the prestige of people who earned the achievement, but the people who earned it are also the ones selling runs and they are free to harm their own prestige as they want. Besides mercenaries are a thing in roleplay too.Edited by Ratzkifal on April 14, 2019 10:58PMThis Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.1 -
prototypefb✭✭✭✭This in itself is not such a bad thing, but it is a continuation of ZOS incrementally turning up the temp to boil the frog. This game has had so many sneaky monetization and P2W-but-not-really elements added bit by bit over time. What will the end point look like? It will happen so gradually that most of us won't even realise it's happening.
true this is a potential issue in the future but player backlash will hurt them big time if they reach too far, many games have perished cause of company greed/bad decisions.
atm there's no reason for that, worst items that could be considered p2w are mount riding lessons, and even those are only advantageous in very limited capacity( cyrodiil if you 'must' use mount and if speed of mount determines if keep/battle is lost because of slow mount, and it's still a grey area because there's no way to measure impact of this).Edited by prototypefb on April 14, 2019 11:05PM1
This discussion has been closed.