Regarding the proposed changes to NB Class
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russelmmendoza✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zos idea for balance is nerf all the old class so that the new class from the chapters will be op and therefore be attrctive to the view of the players.3 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭How does the forum meme go?
Scissors says; “Nerf rock, paper is fine.”
I sometimes really wish this was a PvE only mmo.
What makes you think only pvpers complain about balance?Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Dracan_Fontom wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!
LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depenBLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.
Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?
Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.
Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.
Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.
Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.
So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with @Dracan_Fontom statement?
welp, PvE meta yes?
Passive damage mitigation:
sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none
sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast
lets average it out????
warden = no resists
dk 3.3 spell only
snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....
healing during meta rotation:
sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)
warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)
snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.
lets tally
sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs
ward: 52.5 per sec
snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo
special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)
standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck
but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!
nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.
Yay
Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD
All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...
Good day sir.
I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.
Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be
Stamden > StamDK=Stamplar > Stamblade=StamSorc
Stamplar use BoL? What game is this?
I'm just saying in terms of class opinions since all classes have access to Vigor, I purposefully excluded it as it doesn't relate to class based actions in terms of survivability. As for why BoL, your guess is as good as mine as to why a Stamplar would use it in PvE but most likely reason being they're a PvP toon just farming for X set and are too lazy to switch their skills/sets around or whatever. Point was only to point out this option as a class based heal that they have available to themOnefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Dracan_Fontom wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!
LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depenBLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.
Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?
Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.
Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.
Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.
Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.
So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with statement?
welp, PvE meta yes?
Passive damage mitigation:
sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none
sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast
lets average it out????
warden = no resists
dk 3.3 spell only
snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....
healing during meta rotation:
sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)
warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)
snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.
lets tally
sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs
ward: 52.5 per sec
snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo
special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)
standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck
but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!
nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.
Yay
Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD
All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...
Good day sir.
I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.
Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be
Stamden >StamDK=Stamplar> Stamblade=StamSorc
Why they no vigor? Again it's a meta analysis on what the classes has to offer.
Surge doesn't equal strikes.
Dawnbreaker isn't a heal is only up after ulti gained and isn't classed based.(why is everyone argument trying to make this sound like a bol??? It's up only every 50 secs or more)
If there is no dead repentance is worthless.
Stamplar's focus on the other hand is very nice.
I mean you can't base class balance on a eye balling.
I'm not saying I have the most hours or anything but I average around a 1000 hours on each of the 10 dps toons. Some alot less some alot more. I've done high end and low end and even train new players on these classes(not the Mastermind of any class).
I don't base my beliefs on the subjective. I wrote out a comparison that was fair and accurate. If anyone after wants to talk about what I missed in a class based comparison sure I will reply but just saying you think differently because like you know, isn't going to get a response.
Y'all have a nice morning, may your coffee be strong and you coworkers be quiet eaters.
Vigor is not a Class based ability, hence why I'm not mentioning it since all classes can use it.
I was NOT referring to Dawnbreaker in my DK example as a healing ability but referencing its use in conjunction with Battle Roar as a heal; and much like BoL, you aren't Spamming heals on yourself every 2 seconds only when you need them so for DK, if you have an Ultimate and need health, you're going to drop the ultimate immediately to get that heal. A NB might get more passive healing as a result of Leeching Strikes but when they need an "oh $#!%" heal, it's literally Vigor or bust. I only compare Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes because of how similarly they are in that they're both Heals over Time abilities (granted I'd say Crit Surge is more potent but whatever). However, when push comes to shove, both StamSorc and Stamblade are there using Vigor as their only real heal option.
I'm not saying that your assessment is wrong but in practical applications, it just doesn't work out the way you say it should. Just because a NB is getting back health every light attack doesn't necessarily mean their survivability is better than that of a Stamden or StamDK because those classes have options within them for those moments when survivability actually matters vs a NB which has nothing native to it and relies heavily on Vigor to pull it thru. I never take Vigor off my Bar on my Stamblade as its suicide to do so, whereas most other classes actually have some option in 1 form or another and while some aren't the greatest option (such as BoL on a Stamplar) it's better than nothing at all.
That's all I'm saying here.
So why did you include BoL for stamplar, and exclude Dark cloak for Stamblade, when it heals for more then BoL does on Stamplar? Serious question.
For the same reason I excluded Clannfear, GDB, and Polar Winds; They're Tank related heals and their inclusion wouldn't really be needed to make my point. If I include Tank Skills, Templar would still have better survivability over NB both passively and actively as Templar uses Rune for resources management and gain the same resistance as NB, Minor Mending+Minor Protection via passives, and Sun Shield + the aforementioned BoL/Repentance, vs Dark Cloak which heals and provides Minor Protection and Leeching Strikes.
If I include GDB, that means DK also get 12% extra healing via passives and an 8% additional healing received from Minor Vitality.
If I include Polar Winds, that's some extra resistance for Warden passively (think it's only 500 but still).
I've no comment on Clannfear on a StamSorc. It's weird to see much like its weird seeing a Stamblade using Dark Cloak in PvE but I digress.
Their inclusion doesn't tip the scales more in NB's favor then it does prove that NB has crap survivability so I didn't feel the need to include them.
Ah ok I see...so what I got from that is it’s weird to see a NB using Dark Cloak in PvE (which magblades actually use in vCR but thats neither here nor there as we are talking about Stamblade, just stating it’s used and is NOT a tank skill), but it’s not weird to see a Stamplar use BoL. Makes total, perfect, non-sarcastic sense.
/s
You also see Templar run Sun Shield in vAS, what's your point? It's still unusual to see but that doesn't mean it doesn't have it merits and the fact you resort to sarcasm when I've already pointed out that even with Dark Cloak being taken into account, NB still has crappier survivability tools than Templar just means you really don't have much of a leg to stand on and are grasping at straws to try and deflect that you are wrong.
It's sad honestly.
No....Templar doesn’t use sun shield in vAS, we use Dampen.
Your whole premise is arguing from the standpoint of a casual dungeon runner, from the minute you said Stamplars have BoL and DKs drop dawnbreaker to heal. I, being an endgame PvEer, have no qualms with whatever you find suitable for dungeons.
However when you decide to come to the endgame PvE turf, just know that Stamblade, being that it has the only non stam costing Major evasion source as well as having major resistances built into its spammable, is far better off then any other spec in the game. At the endgame raiding level, you will notice the survivability difference between a Stamblade going for TTT and any other Stam spec going for TTT, that is not arguable, it is pure fact.
Your inability to understand such is why the Class Rep program should not let anybody in that is not of end game caliber. People that would advocate for Stamblade buffs in PvE simply have absolutely NO idea what they are talking about, it’s sad, honestly.
No, I'm saying this as someone that runs all forms of PvE content. I rarely see any Stamina builds in End Game content anymore due to their generally poor survivability and even after the shield nerfs, Magic Builds trump Stamina builds in terms of survivability and the damage difference is negligible at best. On the off chance there is a Stamina build there, it was almost always a Stamplar because of their superior cleave damage and PotL. The argument of not having to use Stamina for Major Evasion is also laughable because Blade Cloak is just flat out better than Blur in practically every way. Between the Major Evasion and Damage of Blade Cloak, there's not much of an argument for Blur at all as its only real feature it offers is Minor Resistances or Major Expedition, and that's really it.
Also, not a SINGLE time in this discussion did I ask for a Stamblade buff. I said NB had higher DPS but crappier survivability than other classes and that is all I have ever stated so as to why you're bringing a totally unrelated topic about Class Reps and Stamblade buffs is beyond me but I'll just chalk it up to more deflection on your part since that's literally all you've been doing this topic. I'm not a Class Rep. I never applied for the position and don't want the position because then it would mean having to deal with people like you that swear they know everything when they very clearly don't and I have better things to do than waste my time with people that would use Strawman arguments to try and sound superior but are really just full of themselves. People like you aren't worth that sort of aggravation.
No stamina in end game raids....stamplar has superior cleave damage....deadly cloak is superior to blur...you seriously have no idea what you’re talking about, at all, endgame PvE wise. Furthermore your obvious personal incredulity just refutes everything the basis of your argument even sits on. Take a look at this “end game PvE raid where stamina builds barely exist”.
https://youtu.be/kBZl-GBTJP0
You show a video of Bow builds, of which I did see at least 1 StamSorc, someone running Shuffle, and someone running a Damage Shield of some sort (video doesn't accurately show what shield it is as several AoEs and other visual effects conceal the actual ability itself. How exactly does this prove that Stamblade has better survivability than other classes when the StamSorc appears to be equally survivable? The video didn't prove anything other than Bow builds can clear vAS+2 with Trapping Webs synergy.Argonian forever0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Dracan_Fontom wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!
LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depenBLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.
Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?
Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.
Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.
Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.
Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.
So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with @Dracan_Fontom statement?
welp, PvE meta yes?
Passive damage mitigation:
sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none
sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast
lets average it out????
warden = no resists
dk 3.3 spell only
snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....
healing during meta rotation:
sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)
warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)
snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.
lets tally
sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs
ward: 52.5 per sec
snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo
special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)
standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck
but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!
nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.
Yay
Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD
All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...
Good day sir.
I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.
Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be
Stamden > StamDK=Stamplar > Stamblade=StamSorc
Stamplar use BoL? What game is this?
I'm just saying in terms of class opinions since all classes have access to Vigor, I purposefully excluded it as it doesn't relate to class based actions in terms of survivability. As for why BoL, your guess is as good as mine as to why a Stamplar would use it in PvE but most likely reason being they're a PvP toon just farming for X set and are too lazy to switch their skills/sets around or whatever. Point was only to point out this option as a class based heal that they have available to themOnefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Dracan_Fontom wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!
LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depenBLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.
Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?
Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.
Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.
Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.
Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.
So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with statement?
welp, PvE meta yes?
Passive damage mitigation:
sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none
sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast
lets average it out????
warden = no resists
dk 3.3 spell only
snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....
healing during meta rotation:
sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)
warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)
snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.
lets tally
sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs
ward: 52.5 per sec
snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo
special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)
standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck
but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!
nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.
Yay
Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD
All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...
Good day sir.
I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.
Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be
Stamden >StamDK=Stamplar> Stamblade=StamSorc
Why they no vigor? Again it's a meta analysis on what the classes has to offer.
Surge doesn't equal strikes.
Dawnbreaker isn't a heal is only up after ulti gained and isn't classed based.(why is everyone argument trying to make this sound like a bol??? It's up only every 50 secs or more)
If there is no dead repentance is worthless.
Stamplar's focus on the other hand is very nice.
I mean you can't base class balance on a eye balling.
I'm not saying I have the most hours or anything but I average around a 1000 hours on each of the 10 dps toons. Some alot less some alot more. I've done high end and low end and even train new players on these classes(not the Mastermind of any class).
I don't base my beliefs on the subjective. I wrote out a comparison that was fair and accurate. If anyone after wants to talk about what I missed in a class based comparison sure I will reply but just saying you think differently because like you know, isn't going to get a response.
Y'all have a nice morning, may your coffee be strong and you coworkers be quiet eaters.
Vigor is not a Class based ability, hence why I'm not mentioning it since all classes can use it.
I was NOT referring to Dawnbreaker in my DK example as a healing ability but referencing its use in conjunction with Battle Roar as a heal; and much like BoL, you aren't Spamming heals on yourself every 2 seconds only when you need them so for DK, if you have an Ultimate and need health, you're going to drop the ultimate immediately to get that heal. A NB might get more passive healing as a result of Leeching Strikes but when they need an "oh $#!%" heal, it's literally Vigor or bust. I only compare Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes because of how similarly they are in that they're both Heals over Time abilities (granted I'd say Crit Surge is more potent but whatever). However, when push comes to shove, both StamSorc and Stamblade are there using Vigor as their only real heal option.
I'm not saying that your assessment is wrong but in practical applications, it just doesn't work out the way you say it should. Just because a NB is getting back health every light attack doesn't necessarily mean their survivability is better than that of a Stamden or StamDK because those classes have options within them for those moments when survivability actually matters vs a NB which has nothing native to it and relies heavily on Vigor to pull it thru. I never take Vigor off my Bar on my Stamblade as its suicide to do so, whereas most other classes actually have some option in 1 form or another and while some aren't the greatest option (such as BoL on a Stamplar) it's better than nothing at all.
That's all I'm saying here.
So why did you include BoL for stamplar, and exclude Dark cloak for Stamblade, when it heals for more then BoL does on Stamplar? Serious question.
For the same reason I excluded Clannfear, GDB, and Polar Winds; They're Tank related heals and their inclusion wouldn't really be needed to make my point. If I include Tank Skills, Templar would still have better survivability over NB both passively and actively as Templar uses Rune for resources management and gain the same resistance as NB, Minor Mending+Minor Protection via passives, and Sun Shield + the aforementioned BoL/Repentance, vs Dark Cloak which heals and provides Minor Protection and Leeching Strikes.
If I include GDB, that means DK also get 12% extra healing via passives and an 8% additional healing received from Minor Vitality.
If I include Polar Winds, that's some extra resistance for Warden passively (think it's only 500 but still).
I've no comment on Clannfear on a StamSorc. It's weird to see much like its weird seeing a Stamblade using Dark Cloak in PvE but I digress.
Their inclusion doesn't tip the scales more in NB's favor then it does prove that NB has crap survivability so I didn't feel the need to include them.
Ah ok I see...so what I got from that is it’s weird to see a NB using Dark Cloak in PvE (which magblades actually use in vCR but thats neither here nor there as we are talking about Stamblade, just stating it’s used and is NOT a tank skill), but it’s not weird to see a Stamplar use BoL. Makes total, perfect, non-sarcastic sense.
/s
You also see Templar run Sun Shield in vAS, what's your point? It's still unusual to see but that doesn't mean it doesn't have it merits and the fact you resort to sarcasm when I've already pointed out that even with Dark Cloak being taken into account, NB still has crappier survivability tools than Templar just means you really don't have much of a leg to stand on and are grasping at straws to try and deflect that you are wrong.
It's sad honestly.
No....Templar doesn’t use sun shield in vAS, we use Dampen.
Your whole premise is arguing from the standpoint of a casual dungeon runner, from the minute you said Stamplars have BoL and DKs drop dawnbreaker to heal. I, being an endgame PvEer, have no qualms with whatever you find suitable for dungeons.
However when you decide to come to the endgame PvE turf, just know that Stamblade, being that it has the only non stam costing Major evasion source as well as having major resistances built into its spammable, is far better off then any other spec in the game. At the endgame raiding level, you will notice the survivability difference between a Stamblade going for TTT and any other Stam spec going for TTT, that is not arguable, it is pure fact.
Your inability to understand such is why the Class Rep program should not let anybody in that is not of end game caliber. People that would advocate for Stamblade buffs in PvE simply have absolutely NO idea what they are talking about, it’s sad, honestly.
No, I'm saying this as someone that runs all forms of PvE content. I rarely see any Stamina builds in End Game content anymore due to their generally poor survivability and even after the shield nerfs, Magic Builds trump Stamina builds in terms of survivability and the damage difference is negligible at best. On the off chance there is a Stamina build there, it was almost always a Stamplar because of their superior cleave damage and PotL. The argument of not having to use Stamina for Major Evasion is also laughable because Blade Cloak is just flat out better than Blur in practically every way. Between the Major Evasion and Damage of Blade Cloak, there's not much of an argument for Blur at all as its only real feature it offers is Minor Resistances or Major Expedition, and that's really it.
Also, not a SINGLE time in this discussion did I ask for a Stamblade buff. I said NB had higher DPS but crappier survivability than other classes and that is all I have ever stated so as to why you're bringing a totally unrelated topic about Class Reps and Stamblade buffs is beyond me but I'll just chalk it up to more deflection on your part since that's literally all you've been doing this topic. I'm not a Class Rep. I never applied for the position and don't want the position because then it would mean having to deal with people like you that swear they know everything when they very clearly don't and I have better things to do than waste my time with people that would use Strawman arguments to try and sound superior but are really just full of themselves. People like you aren't worth that sort of aggravation.
No stamina in end game raids....stamplar has superior cleave damage....deadly cloak is superior to blur...you seriously have no idea what you’re talking about, at all, endgame PvE wise. Furthermore your obvious personal incredulity just refutes everything the basis of your argument even sits on. Take a look at this “end game PvE raid where stamina builds barely exist”.https://youtu.be/kBZl-GBTJP0
You show a video of Bow builds, of which I did see at least 1 StamSorc, someone running Shuffle, and someone running a Damage Shield of some sort (video doesn't accurately show what shield it is as several AoEs and other visual effects conceal the actual ability itself. How exactly does this prove that Stamblade has better survivability than other classes when the StamSorc appears to be equally survivable? The video didn't prove anything other than Bow builds can clear vAS+2 with Trapping Webs synergy.
The video directly disproves your claim that Stam builds are rarely seen in endgame content because they are weaker, as a group of stam builds holds the world score in one of the hardest trials in the game(with the other one coming next), because they are just that much better. Furthermore it proves that the damage difference between stam and mag isn’t negligible, like you said it was, as the parse for this fight is on average 30-50% more DPS than a standard magicka parse. It wasn’t meant to prove anything else.
At this point, now that you’ve acknowledged the video, I’ll leave it at you have been completely proven wrong. Your clear dearth of knowledge regarding endgame PvE nulls all your other claims as well. I have nothing else to prove in this discussion.Edited by templesus on April 4, 2019 2:00AM0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Dracan_Fontom wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!
LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depenBLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.
Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?
Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.
Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.
Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.
Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.
So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with @Dracan_Fontom statement?
welp, PvE meta yes?
Passive damage mitigation:
sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none
sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast
lets average it out????
warden = no resists
dk 3.3 spell only
snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....
healing during meta rotation:
sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)
warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)
snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.
lets tally
sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs
ward: 52.5 per sec
snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo
special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)
standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck
but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!
nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.
Yay
Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD
All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...
Good day sir.
I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.
Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be
Stamden > StamDK=Stamplar > Stamblade=StamSorc
Stamplar use BoL? What game is this?
I'm just saying in terms of class opinions since all classes have access to Vigor, I purposefully excluded it as it doesn't relate to class based actions in terms of survivability. As for why BoL, your guess is as good as mine as to why a Stamplar would use it in PvE but most likely reason being they're a PvP toon just farming for X set and are too lazy to switch their skills/sets around or whatever. Point was only to point out this option as a class based heal that they have available to themOnefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Dracan_Fontom wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!
LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depenBLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.
Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?
Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.
Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.
Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.
Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.
So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with statement?
welp, PvE meta yes?
Passive damage mitigation:
sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none
sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast
lets average it out????
warden = no resists
dk 3.3 spell only
snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....
healing during meta rotation:
sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)
warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)
snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.
lets tally
sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs
ward: 52.5 per sec
snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo
special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)
standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck
but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!
nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.
Yay
Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD
All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...
Good day sir.
I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.
Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be
Stamden >StamDK=Stamplar> Stamblade=StamSorc
Why they no vigor? Again it's a meta analysis on what the classes has to offer.
Surge doesn't equal strikes.
Dawnbreaker isn't a heal is only up after ulti gained and isn't classed based.(why is everyone argument trying to make this sound like a bol??? It's up only every 50 secs or more)
If there is no dead repentance is worthless.
Stamplar's focus on the other hand is very nice.
I mean you can't base class balance on a eye balling.
I'm not saying I have the most hours or anything but I average around a 1000 hours on each of the 10 dps toons. Some alot less some alot more. I've done high end and low end and even train new players on these classes(not the Mastermind of any class).
I don't base my beliefs on the subjective. I wrote out a comparison that was fair and accurate. If anyone after wants to talk about what I missed in a class based comparison sure I will reply but just saying you think differently because like you know, isn't going to get a response.
Y'all have a nice morning, may your coffee be strong and you coworkers be quiet eaters.
Vigor is not a Class based ability, hence why I'm not mentioning it since all classes can use it.
I was NOT referring to Dawnbreaker in my DK example as a healing ability but referencing its use in conjunction with Battle Roar as a heal; and much like BoL, you aren't Spamming heals on yourself every 2 seconds only when you need them so for DK, if you have an Ultimate and need health, you're going to drop the ultimate immediately to get that heal. A NB might get more passive healing as a result of Leeching Strikes but when they need an "oh $#!%" heal, it's literally Vigor or bust. I only compare Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes because of how similarly they are in that they're both Heals over Time abilities (granted I'd say Crit Surge is more potent but whatever). However, when push comes to shove, both StamSorc and Stamblade are there using Vigor as their only real heal option.
I'm not saying that your assessment is wrong but in practical applications, it just doesn't work out the way you say it should. Just because a NB is getting back health every light attack doesn't necessarily mean their survivability is better than that of a Stamden or StamDK because those classes have options within them for those moments when survivability actually matters vs a NB which has nothing native to it and relies heavily on Vigor to pull it thru. I never take Vigor off my Bar on my Stamblade as its suicide to do so, whereas most other classes actually have some option in 1 form or another and while some aren't the greatest option (such as BoL on a Stamplar) it's better than nothing at all.
That's all I'm saying here.
So why did you include BoL for stamplar, and exclude Dark cloak for Stamblade, when it heals for more then BoL does on Stamplar? Serious question.
For the same reason I excluded Clannfear, GDB, and Polar Winds; They're Tank related heals and their inclusion wouldn't really be needed to make my point. If I include Tank Skills, Templar would still have better survivability over NB both passively and actively as Templar uses Rune for resources management and gain the same resistance as NB, Minor Mending+Minor Protection via passives, and Sun Shield + the aforementioned BoL/Repentance, vs Dark Cloak which heals and provides Minor Protection and Leeching Strikes.
If I include GDB, that means DK also get 12% extra healing via passives and an 8% additional healing received from Minor Vitality.
If I include Polar Winds, that's some extra resistance for Warden passively (think it's only 500 but still).
I've no comment on Clannfear on a StamSorc. It's weird to see much like its weird seeing a Stamblade using Dark Cloak in PvE but I digress.
Their inclusion doesn't tip the scales more in NB's favor then it does prove that NB has crap survivability so I didn't feel the need to include them.
Ah ok I see...so what I got from that is it’s weird to see a NB using Dark Cloak in PvE (which magblades actually use in vCR but thats neither here nor there as we are talking about Stamblade, just stating it’s used and is NOT a tank skill), but it’s not weird to see a Stamplar use BoL. Makes total, perfect, non-sarcastic sense.
/s
You also see Templar run Sun Shield in vAS, what's your point? It's still unusual to see but that doesn't mean it doesn't have it merits and the fact you resort to sarcasm when I've already pointed out that even with Dark Cloak being taken into account, NB still has crappier survivability tools than Templar just means you really don't have much of a leg to stand on and are grasping at straws to try and deflect that you are wrong.
It's sad honestly.
No....Templar doesn’t use sun shield in vAS, we use Dampen.
Your whole premise is arguing from the standpoint of a casual dungeon runner, from the minute you said Stamplars have BoL and DKs drop dawnbreaker to heal. I, being an endgame PvEer, have no qualms with whatever you find suitable for dungeons.
However when you decide to come to the endgame PvE turf, just know that Stamblade, being that it has the only non stam costing Major evasion source as well as having major resistances built into its spammable, is far better off then any other spec in the game. At the endgame raiding level, you will notice the survivability difference between a Stamblade going for TTT and any other Stam spec going for TTT, that is not arguable, it is pure fact.
Your inability to understand such is why the Class Rep program should not let anybody in that is not of end game caliber. People that would advocate for Stamblade buffs in PvE simply have absolutely NO idea what they are talking about, it’s sad, honestly.
No, I'm saying this as someone that runs all forms of PvE content. I rarely see any Stamina builds in End Game content anymore due to their generally poor survivability and even after the shield nerfs, Magic Builds trump Stamina builds in terms of survivability and the damage difference is negligible at best. On the off chance there is a Stamina build there, it was almost always a Stamplar because of their superior cleave damage and PotL. The argument of not having to use Stamina for Major Evasion is also laughable because Blade Cloak is just flat out better than Blur in practically every way. Between the Major Evasion and Damage of Blade Cloak, there's not much of an argument for Blur at all as its only real feature it offers is Minor Resistances or Major Expedition, and that's really it.
Also, not a SINGLE time in this discussion did I ask for a Stamblade buff. I said NB had higher DPS but crappier survivability than other classes and that is all I have ever stated so as to why you're bringing a totally unrelated topic about Class Reps and Stamblade buffs is beyond me but I'll just chalk it up to more deflection on your part since that's literally all you've been doing this topic. I'm not a Class Rep. I never applied for the position and don't want the position because then it would mean having to deal with people like you that swear they know everything when they very clearly don't and I have better things to do than waste my time with people that would use Strawman arguments to try and sound superior but are really just full of themselves. People like you aren't worth that sort of aggravation.
No stamina in end game raids....stamplar has superior cleave damage....deadly cloak is superior to blur...you seriously have no idea what you’re talking about, at all, endgame PvE wise. Furthermore your obvious personal incredulity just refutes everything the basis of your argument even sits on. Take a look at this “end game PvE raid where stamina builds barely exist”.https://youtu.be/kBZl-GBTJP0
You show a video of Bow builds, of which I did see at least 1 StamSorc, someone running Shuffle, and someone running a Damage Shield of some sort (video doesn't accurately show what shield it is as several AoEs and other visual effects conceal the actual ability itself. How exactly does this prove that Stamblade has better survivability than other classes when the StamSorc appears to be equally survivable? The video didn't prove anything other than Bow builds can clear vAS+2 with Trapping Webs synergy.
The video directly disproves your claim that Stam builds are rarely seen in endgame content, as a group of stam builds holds the world score in one of the hardest trials in the game(with the other one coming next), because they are just that much better. Furthermore it proves that the damage difference between stam and mag isn’t negligible, like you said it was, as the parse for this fight is on average 30-50% more DPS then a standard magicka parse. It wasn’t meant to prove anything else.
No, the video is just Hodor flexing over 99% of the player base and it's poor form to try and compare the majority of people to them because the majority cannot perform at that level of play. Most end game guilds are still skeptical in following their example and would rather use a Magic composition for sheer peace of mind than risk Stamina builds in their groups, despite evidence showing its save but that's not the point of the discussion. The entire discussion up to this point has been about Stamblade survivability vs other classes and while the video was entertaining, it doesn't really add anything to the discussion.Edited by Silver_Strider on April 4, 2019 2:23AMArgonian forever1 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭2 Of the things you listed aren;t even specific to nb, and the change to snipe is good, less upfront burst, and equal or more damage overall, the problem with snipe is that it allows you to charge up insane burst at low risk because you are in stealth and at a distance, the main difference between that and dizzying, is that with dizzing you have to actually engage in combat, and go into melee, it's easier to dodge because people see you, with snipe, you can do the same, with less risk, and almost the guarantee that you will get at least the first hit, so, that is a very good change, there is also another problem, since the travel time is pretty long, you can almost charge up the other shot before the first one hits, giving you way too much of an advantage in engaging in combat for the first time.
For minor berserk, it;s not that big of a deal, but i do hope they will replace it with something else, a bit more unique, and as for steel tornado, i also don;t like it much but it might be for the best to be honest, emphasis on might, we will see.Edited by JinMori on April 4, 2019 2:36AM0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Onefrkncrzypope , apologizes for having been snappy too, I also shouldn't have retorted like that; guess I've also been less than at ease at the time. I suppose things add up, so it's relevant.
About resistance - take it however you may, but you can look at Liko's 64k 6mil parse, and you will see the uptime of 54% on Major Resolve and Major Ward. I'm getting almost identical uptimes on my parses. Make what you want of it. In execute - and that's often most dangerous phase - the buff falls off completely, but given the short execute time on the parse, the uptime during pre-execute won't be much higher than that. Six seconds is not enough to keep it up.
When talk's about Battle Roar being a heal is precisely that - the difference between average HPS on a meta parse, done on a dummy, and real, actual combat situation. In real fight with mechanics, not a stack-and-burn case, DK will have to hold onto ultimate anyway for some time even if it's charged. For critical moments when adds spawn (like atros in Domihaus fight), for example; most fights are not damage checks, and it's a very common case to hold out for standard (nobody uses Dawnbreaker in actual longer fight), but while you're charging up your standard, you always have the option to drop already charged Dawnbreaker to get an injection of all three resources. And it's invaluable: in critical situation, when you're kiting something and trying to survive, it will give you both health boost - giving you some time to survive - and a surge of stamina and magicka, giving you resources to do something meaningful in that time. It's not small amount of situations; unless you're perfect - maybe you are, who I am to judge - and never get to struggle with content (and if you don't, then why not grab perfect healers and perfect tanks, and always do perfect runs), you will be getting in dangerous moments, and that's when instead of waiting some more for standard, you will drop Dawnbreaker and survive.
Bottom line, HPS means nothing except in select cases when you have steadily, uniformly incoming damage. What really matters is whether a class has some survival functions when it really needs them, and unlike NB, DK does have such survival functions, most of the fight happens with enough ultimate for at least Dawnbreaker, and often enough for Standard, and it's a perfect way to get out of trouble by gaining health, and gaining resources that can be used to stay alive.0 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭BLAINE1245 wrote: »I know these are "rumored" and are still in the works and debate prior to going live. I created a forum account due to Wrathstone going live after having played this game for well over a year. I play one and only one character. A Khajiit Stamina Nightblade. This combination has been hindered (nerfed) via countless updates. The most concerning prior to now being the Wrathstone update which entirely eliminated bonus damage from stealth (the major perk of being Khajiit when other races have much better recovery and resources) as well as converting our 8% critical chance to a 10% critical damage bonus. Critical damage yields zero gain without a high chance of critical hits. Now the nightblade also loses Snipe (I know there's regular complaints but it's certainly on par with Take Flight and Endless Fury). There's also the whirlwind skill which is proposed to lose it's execute as well as grim focus losing the 8% bonus to all damage. I've played this game and only this game with this single character for all of my 50+ plus days played. These proposed changes will truly ruin my experience and destroy the way I enjoy playing my character daily.
The Stamina NB Khajiit is one of THE most powerful combination of all classes currently in the game.
They need to balance (not nerf)the class to the level of other classes.Edited by Dubhliam on April 9, 2019 10:47AM2 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OP, I totally understand you. The same thing happend to me numerous times in the past. My main was an Argonian NB sap tank, with a heavy emphasis on "Was". ZOS have killed this playstyle somewhere in 2017. I have "adapted" to those changes by changing my playstyle compleatly.
The point is, I actually lost count on "how many" times I had to adapt. It has come to a point that when zos is making new balance changes I ask myself: what is the point of adapting if in a 2 months zos will nerf "rebalance" stuff again. Last racial rebalance was final for me. Enough is enough. ZOS has basically made me not to care about my build, skills, gear etc. What is the point if by the time I will find skill / gear combo that works for me stuff will be nerfed again ? How am I supposed to improve my build when all the changes I do are there to compensate for stuff I have lost ?2 -
RedTalon✭✭✭✭✭
✭BLAINE1245 wrote: »I know these are "rumored" and are still in the works and debate prior to going live. I created a forum account due to Wrathstone going live after having played this game for well over a year. I play one and only one character. A Khajiit Stamina Nightblade. This combination has been hindered (nerfed) via countless updates. The most concerning prior to now being the Wrathstone update which entirely eliminated bonus damage from stealth (the major perk of being Khajiit when other races have much better recovery and resources) as well as converting our 8% critical chance to a 10% critical damage bonus. Critical damage yields zero gain without a high chance of critical hits. Now the nightblade also loses Snipe (I know there's regular complaints but it's certainly on par with Take Flight and Endless Fury). There's also the whirlwind skill which is proposed to lose it's execute as well as grim focus losing the 8% bonus to all damage. I've played this game and only this game with this single character for all of my 50+ plus days played. These proposed changes will truly ruin my experience and destroy the way I enjoy playing my character daily.
The Stamina NB Khajiit is one of THE most powerful combination of all classes currently in the game.
They need to balance (not nerf)the class to the level of other classes.
My nightblade tank can outblock that build in battlegrounds while the rest of my team slaughters it1 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭BLAINE1245 wrote: »You've got room to make other characters, why not expand your horizons and try something new?
I have tried. The alts I've created aren't nearly as enjoyable to play and I can't be bothered to play through all the same content and level each skill and gather skyshards more than once on top of leveling the mount and bank and all else.
Awww, come on. The mount takes 60 days minimum.
What else you gonna do with that time?
8D
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barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Dracan_Fontom wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Dracan_Fontom wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!
LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depenBLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.
Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?
Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.
Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.
Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.
By logic, extra spell resistance makes them MORE SURVIVABLE. Every ulti a dk use will HEAL them. How does that NOT make them more survivable than a nb?
As for warden, how tf is that wrong? They have a passive that gives them healing whenever they an animal companion skill disappears. Every warden - mag or stam - will use shalks. They will use the netch. Magden will use beetles, and may cliff racer. Stamden may use clif racer as well. All of those will heal them when the skill ends, some more often than others. All warden will use 1 morph of lotus, it gives them extra crit. That will heal them whenever they light or heavy attack. A staple of the game's design. They have a passive that will increase their health by 10% by using ANY heal. How are they NOT more survivable? Maybe it's you who needs more experience with them.
wow. Always thought that was just talking about the bear.
well, that puts warden in a different light. gonna have to try one again.
I have seen the light
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Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@Onefrkncrzypope , apologizes for having been snappy too, I also shouldn't have retorted like that; guess I've also been less than at ease at the time. I suppose things add up, so it's relevant.
About resistance - take it however you may, but you can look at Liko's 64k 6mil parse, and you will see the uptime of 54% on Major Resolve and Major Ward. I'm getting almost identical uptimes on my parses. Make what you want of it. In execute - and that's often most dangerous phase - the buff falls off completely, but given the short execute time on the parse, the uptime during pre-execute won't be much higher than that. Six seconds is not enough to keep it up.
When talk's about Battle Roar being a heal is precisely that - the difference between average HPS on a meta parse, done on a dummy, and real, actual combat situation. In real fight with mechanics, not a stack-and-burn case, DK will have to hold onto ultimate anyway for some time even if it's charged. For critical moments when adds spawn (like atros in Domihaus fight), for example; most fights are not damage checks, and it's a very common case to hold out for standard (nobody uses Dawnbreaker in actual longer fight), but while you're charging up your standard, you always have the option to drop already charged Dawnbreaker to get an injection of all three resources. And it's invaluable: in critical situation, when you're kiting something and trying to survive, it will give you both health boost - giving you some time to survive - and a surge of stamina and magicka, giving you resources to do something meaningful in that time. It's not small amount of situations; unless you're perfect - maybe you are, who I am to judge - and never get to struggle with content (and if you don't, then why not grab perfect healers and perfect tanks, and always do perfect runs), you will be getting in dangerous moments, and that's when instead of waiting some more for standard, you will drop Dawnbreaker and survive.
Bottom line, HPS means nothing except in select cases when you have steadily, uniformly incoming damage. What really matters is whether a class has some survival functions when it really needs them, and unlike NB, DK does have such survival functions, most of the fight happens with enough ultimate for at least Dawnbreaker, and often enough for Standard, and it's a perfect way to get out of trouble by gaining health, and gaining resources that can be used to stay alive.
I will accept that when ultimate is up it's a great heal that is capped at what 11.5k? Now let's say you don't have ulti, who would have better heals? Even at 11 secs out a nb will have a better heal. All liko would have to do is move a SA into a spot to keep it's uptime.
But let's just get back to the point I was trying to make.
Some one said SDK and stamwardens are the tankiest dps. They are not.
Stamplar is, then stamsorc. Then it's up in the air due to certain conditions it's either nightblade or dk then warden. This is without other class support. Agree or nah?-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....0 -
VoiDGhOs7✭✭✭✭I'm not sorry to say that nightblades deserve the DK treatment, meaning that they must be nerfed into Oblivion.0 -
BLAINE1245✭✭barney2525 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »You've got room to make other characters, why not expand your horizons and try something new?
I have tried. The alts I've created aren't nearly as enjoyable to play and I can't be bothered to play through all the same content and level each skill and gather skyshards more than once on top of leveling the mount and bank and all else.
Awww, come on. The mount takes 60 days minimum.
What else you gonna do with that time?
8D
180 days if you complete all mount skills which of course I have
I just am not willing to spend another 180+ days (At least twice that honestly) to accomplish these same things on a separate character only to see it eventually suffer the same "balancing".
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JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭KhajiitFelix wrote: »Nobody said they are going to remove snipe.
What would be the point of removing Snipe?
If you are playing an archer, Snipe is about it.
What would be left? Power Attack, that stupid spray of arrows thing or the knock-back?
Honestly, I doubt they would remove Snipe. A Sniper Archer just makes sense.
crushing weapon. It works if you already light weave0 -
BLAINE1245✭✭KhajiitFelix wrote: »Nobody said they are going to remove snipe.
What would be the point of removing Snipe?
If you are playing an archer, Snipe is about it.
What would be left? Power Attack, that stupid spray of arrows thing or the knock-back?
Honestly, I doubt they would remove Snipe. A Sniper Archer just makes sense.
crushing weapon. It works if you already light weave
7m is nowhere near 28m. This also isn't a skill specific to the bow build. Essentially whirlwind vs snipe.0 -
Victor_Blade✭✭✭✭BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
But wait, nightblade healers/tanks are trash. So we get to be really bad healers/tanks and subpar class for dps? Jack of none, master of none life seems really naice😁1 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Victor_Blade wrote: »
But wait, nightblade healers/tanks are trash. So we get to be really bad healers/tanks and subpar class for dps? Jack of none, master of none life seems really naice😁
You mean like sorcs until this patch? With the only identity of being a conduit slave? Yeah can happen to classes^^.
Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BLAINE1245 wrote: »KhajiitFelix wrote: »Nobody said they are going to remove snipe.
What would be the point of removing Snipe?
If you are playing an archer, Snipe is about it.
What would be left? Power Attack, that stupid spray of arrows thing or the knock-back?
Honestly, I doubt they would remove Snipe. A Sniper Archer just makes sense.
crushing weapon. It works if you already light weave
7m is nowhere near 28m. This also isn't a skill specific to the bow build. Essentially whirlwind vs snipe.
With bow crushing weapon have 28 meters range because that's the distance of bow light attack.Edited by Juhasow on April 13, 2019 9:09PM0 -
Victor_Blade✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »Victor_Blade wrote: »
But wait, nightblade healers/tanks are trash. So we get to be really bad healers/tanks and subpar class for dps? Jack of none, master of none life seems really naice😁
You mean like sorcs until this patch? With the only identity of being a conduit slave? Yeah can happen to classes^^.
Wait What? I've played with someone who has a sorc healer and they shield stacks so much that they're is sometimes tankier than the tank and then they switched out the resto for a destro and do bunch of damage. Plus sorcs have group utility buffs and a source of major berserk! I don't see how that compares to nightblade spamming funnel health or sap essence lol.0 -
prototypefb✭✭✭✭what exactly is snipe proposal? are they gonna make snipe into poison injection type of skill without execute dmg and with cast time? rofl? snipe is situational skill as it is, also very easy to avoid it most of the time, leave it as is.1 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Victor_Blade wrote: »
Wait What? I've played with someone who has a sorc healer and they shield stacks so much that they're is sometimes tankier than the tank and then they switched out the resto for a destro and do bunch of damage. Plus sorcs have group utility buffs and a source of major berserk! I don't see how that compares to nightblade spamming funnel health or sap essence lol.
Which Content are you Talking About? I was Talking About vet Trials with sorcs being grouped only for conduit and minor Prophecy until theird dps got buffed. Doesnt mean that they cant do vet dungeon stuff or vet Trials, just that in fully optimized Groups they were not there because of dps but because of providing 1 Synergy for alkosh and 6% spell crit towards other mag dds. Some Groups even moved the sorc to healer so that more nightblades could be dps.
Nightblade dps nerf doesnt mean you cant take it to Content anymore, you might only not do so if you are in a Group that is pushing scores, for Dungeons, non scorepush Trials etc. every class is perfectly viable in every role, just Need the skill to pull it off.
You are Right with saying sorc has more Group Utility than nightblade but then again few dds have as many Group Benefits as a magsorc, magdk dps for example brings absolutely Nothing to the Group that isnt taken care of by the tank, they dont even bring higher dps than their Competition.
Until Murkmire magblades had plenty of Group Utility all the while having the highest mag dps and the best mag sustain, if you stacked magblade dds you would have over 100k healing per second from dps characters just doing their Rotation! Thats likely why magblade got the hammer btw. Not to Mention that they have been top mag dps since Pretty much morrowind and Change really is in order.
Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.0 -
BLAINE1245✭✭prototypefb wrote: »what exactly is snipe proposal? are they gonna make snipe into poison injection type of skill without execute dmg and with cast time? rofl? snipe is situational skill as it is, also very easy to avoid it most of the time, leave it as is.
Reducing initial damage by 50% and changing Major Defile to Minor Defile. I agree that it really is a situational skill and not used much other than sometimes PVP and mostly sniping beetles off a node. Really don't see the benefit in the changes myself.0 -
Imperial_Voice✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why is that no matter how badly a class is overperforming even the slightest nerf will "ruin" someones "experience"?1 -
BLAINE1245✭✭Imperial_Voice wrote: »Why is that no matter how badly a class is overperforming even the slightest nerf will "ruin" someones "experience"?
I really wish I could understand this logic but in all my playing I haven't noticed overperformance with my NB. It has terrible sustain and survivability and *maybe* a slightly higher DPS to make up for those two things.0 -
Victor_Blade✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »Victor_Blade wrote: »
Wait What? I've played with someone who has a sorc healer and they shield stacks so much that they're is sometimes tankier than the tank and then they switched out the resto for a destro and do bunch of damage. Plus sorcs have group utility buffs and a source of major berserk! I don't see how that compares to nightblade spamming funnel health or sap essence lol.
Which Content are you Talking About? I was Talking About vet Trials with sorcs being grouped only for conduit and minor Prophecy until theird dps got buffed. Doesnt mean that they cant do vet dungeon stuff or vet Trials, just that in fully optimized Groups they were not there because of dps but because of providing 1 Synergy for alkosh and 6% spell crit towards other mag dds. Some Groups even moved the sorc to healer so that more nightblades could be dps.
Nightblade dps nerf doesnt mean you cant take it to Content anymore, you might only not do so if you are in a Group that is pushing scores, for Dungeons, non scorepush Trials etc. every class is perfectly viable in every role, just Need the skill to pull it off.
You are Right with saying sorc has more Group Utility than nightblade but then again few dds have as many Group Benefits as a magsorc, magdk dps for example brings absolutely Nothing to the Group that isnt taken care of by the tank, they dont even bring higher dps than their Competition.
Until Murkmire magblades had plenty of Group Utility all the while having the highest mag dps and the best mag sustain, if you stacked magblade dds you would have over 100k healing per second from dps characters just doing their Rotation! Thats likely why magblade got the hammer btw. Not to Mention that they have been top mag dps since Pretty much morrowind and Change really is in order.
I get your point! But the thing is, nightblades getting nerfed isn't really fair. Why? Cos we are getting nerfed from a pve perspective assuming every magblade only does pve.
With all of the healing and minor vitality nerfs to magblade without any buffs just makes it feel really weak in pvp. I mostly do pvp and do vet trials in weekends. I see magblades pulling high dps in trials by a long margin compared to sorcs and dks. But Templars hit almost as high as nightblades and with a healer giving minor berserk, there is no difference.
Maybe a nerf would make sense from a sorc and dks perspective but those nerfs really effect us in pvp. With lack of heals and buffs we are essentially being forced into glass canon ganking and when we do whatever is left of us, people start getting salty in forums on how a nightblade one shot them. Nerf cloaks even with all of the counters and stuff!!!
Dks don't hit as hard as nightblade but nightblades can't tank nearly as good as a dk either. Sorcs can't hit as high as a nightblade but pet builds with shield stacking(pvp) can do decent damage and tank in all of your bursts easily. Templars are good at everything and they don't get nerfed at all but hey everyone hates nightblades for some reason so it's cool I guess.0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Victor_Blade wrote: »I get your point! But the thing is, nightblades getting nerfed isn't really fair. Why? Cos we are getting nerfed from a pve perspective assuming every magblade only does pve.
With all of the healing and minor vitality nerfs to magblade without any buffs just makes it feel really weak in pvp. I mostly do pvp and do vet trials in weekends. I see magblades pulling high dps in trials by a long margin compared to sorcs and dks. But Templars hit almost as high as nightblades and with a healer giving minor berserk, there is no difference.
Maybe a nerf would make sense from a sorc and dks perspective but those nerfs really effect us in pvp. With lack of heals and buffs we are essentially being forced into glass canon ganking and when we do whatever is left of us, people start getting salty in forums on how a nightblade one shot them. Nerf cloaks even with all of the counters and stuff!!!
Dks don't hit as hard as nightblade but nightblades can't tank nearly as good as a dk either. Sorcs can't hit as high as a nightblade but pet builds with shield stacking(pvp) can do decent damage and tank in all of your bursts easily. Templars are good at everything and they don't get nerfed at all but hey everyone hates nightblades for some reason so it's cool I guess.
That is the biggest issue with pve and pvp not being sepparated, I think many People would welcome both being balanced sepparately but I dont think its likely to happen so pvp might suffer for pve overperformance and vice versa and we as a result must live with that. Now thats not me saying that no one should speak up because of that but one suffering for the sake of the other has happened and will continue to happen.
Tbh Im still surprised that ZOS let rule nightblade pve dps for as Long as they did (and stamblade still does outside of bow bow builds), magblade nowadays is still strong dpswise but magplar and petsorcs can catch up I believe (not too sure About petsorcs tho).
What has me even more surprised is that the rumored minor berserk removal will not Change the Status quo on its own pvewise but will nerf pvp where magblade at least is far from overperforming, other classes get minor berserk from healers or slimecrawl in Trials so nb can too. I would´ve expected mostly stamblade nerfs but we dont know anything for sure yet so we will have to see.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.0