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Necromancer concerns
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Jcarson0408✭✭✭ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »Jcarson0408 wrote: »Jcarson0408 wrote: »Based off of immersion reasons 2/3 of the sorcerer trees would also have the same penalty.
No they wouldn't.
The only daedric magic in the single player games are conjured weapons and summons. It's admittedly been a while since I've played some of them but I don't recall guards attacking me for using any of those spells.
The two Daedra specifically associated with sorcerer abilities are Azura and Meridia. Their cults and followers - especially Azura's - are widely tolerated. Summerset might be an exception but even then there's a difference between cults and its followers, and people who simply use daedric magic.
Next time you're on Artaeum look in the fields. There's a storm atronach working in the fields.
Guards don't attack you for undead in the single player games either. It's surprising they even considered this in an MMO when they didn't for vampires and WW despite that being a BIG no no in the single player games. Never heard of the Azura and Meridia thing with sorcs but it's not unbelievable. Though like you said they are not tolerated everywhere, necromancy is not banned in multiple provinces but with the way things are set up even in those provinces.MLGProPlayer wrote: »Jcarson0408 wrote: »adriant1978 wrote: »
weapon skills still aren't banned though. And quests are joke in terms of difficulty. You can do them all by just light attacking, don't even need to use force pulse/rapid strikes.
You CAN. How is it balanced to force ONE class into that restriction without any other class restricted that way or any form of compensation for that restriction?
There is no need to balance quests. You can complete a quest fight by just light attacking.
There is no need to single out a class with a restriction no other class has anything close to. If we are going based off of what isn't necessary then it seems like they can just not inconsistently add restrictions.
They did actually attack vampire players in morrowind if I remember in fact you couldn't quest or do anything except some vampire quests in morrowind which was really annoying and made being a vampire useless. Some people made mods to change this in morrowind but without mods you couldn't complete the game as a vampire. Probably why they didn't put this in with vampirism in the later games. And I'm hoping they don't decide to make vampirism a crime in this one either. It clearly didn't even work for the single player ones and it'd be even more annoying in an MMO where we can't just simply use a mod to get rid of stupid things like that.
Being a vampire is not the same thing as using necromancy. By the logic you just used all magic should be illegal because vampires were illegal in Morrowind.
Yes the spells being related to Azura and Merida. You'd have to be ignoring the story every time they came up at minimum not to know they are the most "acceptable"daedra.Jcarson0408 wrote: »Guards don't attack you for undead in the single player games either.
Morrowind and Skyrim were set in places which weren't totally anti necromancy.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Necromancy
I don't think we've heard anything official on this but none of us would be surprised if necromancy isn't considered a crime in ESO's Telvanni towns.
Everywhere else we would expect guards to consider it a crime because of the war. Even if Skyrim and Elswyr are ok with necromancy, both are part of alliances participating in a major war and that changes the rules.
Eg. at any other point in time the Bosmer would go nuts if you picked a flower in Valenwood. In ESO though the worst you should expect to suffer for it is amusing snarky commenary from nearby NPCs.
In the case of Morrowind and Oblivion, we're also talking about very old games with infant crime systems.
Lore says that most of Tamriel is against necromancy. ESO has a moderately robust crime and punishment system and it just wouldn't make sense to have players flaunting their necromancy in front of guards without consequences.Jcarson0408 wrote: »Never heard of the Azura and Meridia thing with sorcs but it's not unbelievable.
Which "thing" are you referring to? Their association with the sorcerer class or being less reviled than other Daedra?
Sorc abilities specifically reference these two. Surely someone as knowledgeable as you would know this?
Azura moreso and Meridia to a lesser extent are more tolerated in most places. This is known. It's even touched on in ESO. Have you not played it?
Azura is relatively benign. At least she's not transparently malevolent. Break a deal with her and she'll curse the *** of you and your race and end your civilization. But don't do that and you'll be fine.
Meridia is anti undead. If you're not a vampire then she's probably no danger to you.
I am curious as to how this crime system is somehow considered SO much more advanced than Morrowind or Oblivion. The amount of work put into how guards reaction to werewolves is far beyond anything in ESO's crime system. Let's examine that link you shared since it is why I say not all provinces are against necromancy. I've never actually counted how many provinces it is allowed in vs illegal
Black Marsh, necromancy is allowed though still rare.
Cyrodiil, allowed "technically" (We still have Gold Coast with towns.)
Elsweyr (The province the expansion with this class is focused around.) It's not only allowed they even sell dead bodies to make it even easier for them.
Hammerfell, illegal, second place for province that hates it. Won't even fight undead
Orsinium, Unclear based on the link but I would assume illegal
Highrock, illegal
Morrowind, Legal so long as you only perform it on animals, in 2nd era it was likely still the time that everyone who isn't a dark elf was considered an animal. (They are flexible on even that with for certain religious ceremonies.)
Skyrim, Legal though they are weird about it
Summerset, illegal, third most illegal place for them
Valenwood, Hate it so much it has been called "goes beyond all reason". (Sane province where you aren't allowed to pick plants and yet we can in ESO with no problem, even the wood elves.)
5 provinces where it's legal, 5 provinces where it's illegal and I am entirely guessing that one of them is against necromancy it might be 6 legal 4 illegal. The lore of the game does not match up with necromancy being so illegal that in all provinces that it needs to be a 1000 gold bounty. I would have to murder four people to get more bounty than one necromancy ability. Zenimax is not only not being consistent with what does and doesn't trigger the justice system with this. They aren't actually following the lore. There is now 0 reason because it's not actually immersive. The entire Ebonheart Pact has no laws against it, so how immersive is it even with the war for it to be illegal there?1 -
Yamenstein✭✭✭✭✭They should make the changes all at once or not at all. No point putting necros in that position but not vampires, werewolves and sorcsCrown Crates are a trap. Don't fall for the gamble! Balance? What Balance? Balance, smellance.
Necro for them RP feels.1 -
Morgul667✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Put duel areas in town
Make guard attack if duel outside of those areas
Make an option for pet to unsummon automatically when in town
Problem solved1 -
Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Jcarson0408 wrote: »Yes the spells being related to Azura and Merida. You'd have to be ignoring the story every time they came up at minimum not to know they are the most "acceptable"daedra.
It wasn't at all clear because both are equally obvious.
Those great big flappy pets of theirs which you're so desperate to see them arrested for summoning - those belong to Azura.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Bestiary_W#Winged_Twilight
You don't even have to be familiar with the Elder Scrolls to know that.
Or pay attention during Azura's quests in ESO.
Just read the ability description.Call on Azura to send a winged twilight to fight at your side.
Apply the same trick to surge.Invoke Meridia's name to gain Major Brutality...Jcarson0408 wrote: »I am curious as to how this crime system is somehow considered SO much more advanced than Morrowind or Oblivion.
If you have to ask that, that's just more proof that you're not qualified to be having this discussion.
You're just not being even remotely realistic.
Necromancy is generally not accepted in Tamriel. Other forms of magic like daedra summoning are.
There are only a tiny handful of occasions when you need to engage in combat in a town, and there are more than enough non-class abilities to handle those.
Deal with it.0 -
Jcarson0408✭✭✭
Surge, an ability from storm calling I.E. obviously not one of the two specs that would be frowned upon? When one involves summoning daedra and the other is literally called dark magic.Jcarson0408 wrote: »Yes the spells being related to Azura and Merida. You'd have to be ignoring the story every time they came up at minimum not to know they are the most "acceptable"daedra.
It wasn't at all clear because both are equally obvious.
Those great big flappy pets of theirs which you're so desperate to see them arrested for summoning - those belong to Azura.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Bestiary_W#Winged_Twilight
You don't even have to be familiar with the Elder Scrolls to know that.
Or pay attention during Azura's quests in ESO.
Just read the ability description.Call on Azura to send a winged twilight to fight at your side.
Apply the same trick to surge.Invoke Meridia's name to gain Major Brutality...Jcarson0408 wrote: »I am curious as to how this crime system is somehow considered SO much more advanced than Morrowind or Oblivion.
If you have to ask that, that's just more proof that you're not qualified to be having this discussion.
You're just not being even remotely realistic.
Necromancy is generally not accepted in Tamriel. Other forms of magic like daedra summoning are.
There are only a tiny handful of occasions when you need to engage in combat in a town, and there are more than enough non-class abilities to handle those.
Deal with it.
I am curious how the scamp and clannfear fit into the Azura thing as well. After all those aren't things exactly known for having a connection to Azura. But you are right, I didn't pay much attention to a spell I never use since I find the minion obnoxious to use. Aren't I a dummy?
"If you have to ask that, that's just more proof that you're not qualified to be having this discussion."
I get the feeling that is just an excuse because you made a statement you can't back up. But maybe I'm just being unrealistic, so let's break down the two crime systems. Going to focus on what each game has that the other doesn't.
Morrowind/Oblivion: An actual reaction to someone turning into a werewolf in the middle of town. Sneak and security as separate skills with security having even more uses than ESO (Disarming traps, resealing sealed documents. Poisoned apples in Oblivion) A reaction to someone very obviously being a vampire even without them feeding (Though they are really bad at telling someone is a vampire, you'd think the red eyes would be a give away but...) guards not being able to tell it was you who mauled someone as a werewolf when you turn back to normal (Provided they don't see you.) An option to go to jail instead of bounty and execution right there on the streets. Merchants who can refuse to do business with you for carrying skooma or moon sugar (Though in fairness ESO doesn't even HAVE those items.)
ESO: Special items that generally can only be looted while committing a crime. Special NPCs that are the only NPCs can be pickpocketed/murdered/assaulted. Guards that can not be fought against as they can not take damage.
Anyone notice what I did? How in the single player games the differences make crime MORE immersive instead of less immersive? It's almost like MMOs are inherently less immersive because at a certain point immersion ruins game play in an MMO.
"Generally not accepted in Tamriel" you say about the thing that is legal in at least half of Tamriel?
It is not immersive to make necromancy illegal in all provinces just because it is illegal in some. It makes no sense to do this in a game where I can turn into a werewolf right in front of a guard with no reaction, then proceed a short distance to kill four civilians (Which was less bounty than necromancy since there were no witnesses to the fourth dying so it only counted as an assault.) or where someone who is obviously a vampire can do obviously vampire things so long as they aren't seen feeding but necromancy against a hostile NPC causes a 1000 gold bounty. It is terrible game development in MMOs to single out a class like this "For immersion". It will be the only difference between the single player game and the MMO that could even be considered immersive, a weird time to suddenly care about immersion (And it's not immersive AT ALL if you are Ebonheart pact)
Deal with it.
(PS; So you don't try to weasel in that I'm being inconsistent about whether it's immersive or not, it's immersive in places where it actually is illegal, especially Hammerfell and Valenwood. Not immersive in places where it's not illegal. So if it's only going to be immersive about 50% of the time it is a terrible idea to single out a class for the sake of immersion.)Edited by Jcarson0408 on March 31, 2019 10:18PM1 -
Jcarson0408✭✭✭Update on this; Apparently according to the PTS, the bounty system is NOT limited to NPCs in town, NPCs out in the wilderness can and will cause a bounty (Significantly less than the 1000 gold though, the same bounty you would see for a murder) so it is now no longer a matter of "Just don't use your abilities in town!"Edited by Jcarson0408 on April 17, 2019 7:54PM0
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Ahlteffour✭✭✭If we are just adding things to the justice system, how about people who yell or type stupid things into zone chat. I think that is deserving of at least a 1k bounty.
But seriously, this justice system change is likely the first of many to be added, and it is a complete non-issue."Anyone can identify a problem. It takes hard work, dedication, patience and understanding to be a positive part of the solution"2 -
jircris11✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ahlteffour wrote: »If we are just adding things to the justice system, how about people who yell or type stupid things into zone chat. I think that is deserving of at least a 1k bounty.
But seriously, this justice system change is likely the first of many to be added, and it is a complete non-issue.
Gods yes lolIGN: Ki'rah
Khajiit/Vampire
DC/AD faction/NA server.
RPer0 -
Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Use mudballs till they slip up, lol.
It will be entertaining to see how this works, I like it. Probably won't be enough guards for all the Necros misbehaving xD Edited by Girl_Number8 on April 17, 2019 8:57PM0 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Can we make it a felony to have the sorc pets and warden bear active in towns? My daily writs will be doable again.0 -
Jcarson0408✭✭✭Ahlteffour wrote: »If we are just adding things to the justice system, how about people who yell or type stupid things into zone chat. I think that is deserving of at least a 1k bounty.
But seriously, this justice system change is likely the first of many to be added, and it is a complete non-issue.
How is it not an issue? I disagreed but I could at least see where people were coming from when we thought it would just be towns. Now it's out in the wilderness and there is still not a good reason to implement it.0 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I hope you're concerned about Necromancers, so am I!
They're a real blight on the citizens and we need our guards to take out that sort of trash.
Also in my experience Necromancers smell really bad must be from hanging around the dead so often.1 -
Jcarson0408✭✭✭I hope you're concerned about Necromancers, so am I!
They're a real blight on the citizens and we need our guards to take out that sort of trash.
Also in my experience Necromancers smell really bad must be from hanging around the dead so often.
We all stink though, we literally never bathe. Everyone is just too nice to say something about it. The rot smell will just be overpowered by the "Literally never uses soap." smell0