Garwulf wrote: »

To be honest when they introduced the Champion system ,rather than changing the rate at which you leveled after lever 50 (i.e. the VR system) , they totally ruined the Games leveling system.
This is evident by the fact that they have ;
1) Stopped us from using all our champion points
2) the fact they have stopped increasing the number of Champion points given when new content is released.

As such I can see no reason why we could not have an optional account wide sky shards option,( assuming it is readily programmable) .

I would also like new content put into old content areas to encourage exploration and longevity. Whilst some like grinding dungeons over and over again this is definitely not my thing. Now that they has even stopped the reason for gaining champion points there is little to do . There is no leveling anymore and new content is little and far between. Doing the same thing over and over again until you feel like you are banging your head against a wall is not fun.

The only good thing is now I am playing other games . I have a subscription to ESO Plus but it needs to be cancelled.

Androconium wrote: »

Providing an inexperienced character with a bucketload of inherited skillpoints is the exploit.

Androconium wrote: »

This request is an exploit...

Tandor wrote: »

Vandril wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Androconium wrote: »

SNSquietxXSTORM wrote: »

Why hasn't this been put into the game? Specially for console players that don't have mods to show them. It makes so much sense leaving you focusing on questing and leveling for the End Game. It makes you not want to create other characters. Make it simpler guys just my thoughts.

Because hunting for skyshards as a character achievement also roundly develops all other skills in order to get to them.

Anyone creating their first or fourteenth character should have no automatic free access to the skill points generated as reward.

You can still collect enough overland shards to boost your skillpoints count for new chatacters, without too much grinding effort.

This request is an exploit and should be ignored as such.

It's not remotely an exploit, but it's definitely a structural gameplay change rather than simply a Quality of Life improvement, and it's also a major development nightmare especially if intended to be optional so that two different and interchangeable systems have to be run alongside each other.

Actually, there are ways to make that extremely easy from a development standpoint. I've thought about it every so often.

If you just want the Skyshard hunt optional while having Skill Points be account-wide, the easiest way to do it would be to track found Skyshards account-wide for the sake of SP while simultaneously tracking which Skyshards each character has found to determine if it's still collectable on that character or not. This honestly wouldn't be very complex from a programming or systems design perspective.

If you want players to have the option of not having their Skill Points shared account-wide, then there's an even easier solution: require characters to redeem the Skill Points earned from their account-wide records, perhaps from a vendor of some sort or through the Crown Store (for free). After "purchase", a single switch would flip to "true" for that character enabling account-wide SP progression. Otherwise, the switch would simply read its default "false" value and the character would not be using account-wide SP progression. Very, VERY simple from a programming and systems design perspective.

A change to account-wide Skyshards doesn't need to be a development nightmare.

Unfortunately it's not remotely as simple as you suggest.

For a start, the proposal is that lorebooks and skyshards should be account-wide, not all skill points including those gained from leveling or completing main quests. Once those skill points are allocated then it is much more difficult to undo them if a player opts to change again - and believe me, if an optional system were adopted as a single flick of a switch on opening the account then there'd be no end of players demanding to be able to flick the switch again later.

People are simply asking for lorebooks and skyshards to be unlocked once and then automatically unlocked on all their characters - that's very different from the idea of all skill points being shared account-wide in the way that you describe.

Androconium wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Androconium wrote: »

This request is an exploit...

What?

Anything that makes things easier for non-PC players is an exploit in that view!

We should not have the new map enhancements by that logic. Go back to a bare interface! That is more grindy and immersive!

If you're that experienced with the grind, then you should know where most of them arebynow anyway.

You just want a handout.

stop playing if it's too hard.🤔

MikaHR wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

That's what matters. Everything should be account wide because I dont want to do things more than once because if i have to do it more than once it becomes boring. Anyone that disagrees with me is being foolish and immature!

But, you've posted on these forums more than once....

Also you've bathed more than once. Right? Right!?

What? No! You think I'm bougie or something?

You know what else is boring? Leveling. I leveled characters to 50 already. Character levels need to be account wide too. They should automatically be max level when I make them because everything before max level is pointless and dumb.

Yeah, that's the one thing you've said I can throw you a bone to. Gear progression on sub-160s does not add to the experience. It's especially brutal for newer players who think they should start working on their builds while they're still leveling. Where you have to tell them, "no, you can't farm for your gear yet, it's not at cap."

EDIT: To be clear, it would make more sense to strip levels from gear, and implement a scaling system, the way overland content was reworked. But, that's neither here nor there.

Ugh... collecting gear is so lame. Every character I make should automatically be equipped with a copy of the gear that my main is wearing, be max level, have the same number of skill points, and have all the skill lines at the same level as my main so they are ready for end game as soon as I create them. Anything less is a waste of my time because I deserve the best, after all. I mean, I already did everything on my main that one time.

Gear is account bound.

So is gold so you can craft on your main and pass to alt. Or even better you can BUY gear from guild traders with GOLD that you gained on ANY other charater!!!!!!!!!!! "OMG SO LAAAAAAAAAAAAMEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" - srfrogg23

MikaHR wrote: »

I would prefer mutiple classes on single character...like many other games do...before you jump that "no game does it" out of your ignorance.

In fact i would prefer classless system where you can just choose ANY skill line to put skillpoints in.

But dont get upset again because your "argument" fell apart....again.

Universe wrote: »

The game is really easy and now you want to make it even easier ?
What about all those who worked hard on multiple characters to get everything ? Such as myself ?
No thank you.

starkerealm wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

I would prefer mutiple classes on single character...like many other games do...before you jump that "no game does it" out of your ignorance.

In fact i would prefer classless system where you can just choose ANY skill line to put skillpoints in.

But dont get upset again because your "argument" fell apart....again.

For the record, I actually love the class system in Grim Dawn and Titan Quest. Where you'd make your own class on the fly. My first MMO was Guild Wars, which had a split class system. There's also Elder Scrolls: Legends, which gives you a class based on which two attributes appear in your deck (granted, that's a CCG, not an RPG, but still), and I've still got a soft spot for 3rd/3.5e D&D, and it's cross classing system. Another good example is Pillars of Eternity 2, where hybrid classes give you a wider range of abilities but actively prevent you from hyperspecializing, and lock you out of the best endgame abilities, while giving you a lot of versatility because each class has a unique resource, and multi-classed characters have two resource pools.

I don't think it's a good fit for ESO. At least not how the game exists right now. The reason is the classes were not designed with the idea that you'd be mixing cross class with impunity. There's a few very broken skill combos that are currently impossible, and simply opening up all classes to any character would actually reduce build diversity (which may sound surprising).

There's ways to limit this, and like I said, when you have a game designed around multi-class systems, it can be very cool, and lead to some really unique build concepts. I also think it is a good fit with The Elder Scrolls. But, it's not a great fit for ESO, as it exists currently.

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

I would prefer mutiple classes on single character...like many other games do...before you jump that "no game does it" out of your ignorance.

In fact i would prefer classless system where you can just choose ANY skill line to put skillpoints in.

But dont get upset again because your "argument" fell apart....again.

Final fantasy 11 and 14 both do 1 toon can switch to any class and you also can share certain abilities from classes you have leveled up. Like for example warrior is the only tank to get provoke (taunt) in that game so you basically level warrior up to gain access to provoke and the other tank classes in the game now have access to it.

Tandor wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

I would prefer mutiple classes on single character...like many other games do...before you jump that "no game does it" out of your ignorance.

In fact i would prefer classless system where you can just choose ANY skill line to put skillpoints in.

But dont get upset again because your "argument" fell apart....again.

For the record, I actually love the class system in Grim Dawn and Titan Quest. Where you'd make your own class on the fly. My first MMO was Guild Wars, which had a split class system. There's also Elder Scrolls: Legends, which gives you a class based on which two attributes appear in your deck (granted, that's a CCG, not an RPG, but still), and I've still got a soft spot for 3rd/3.5e D&D, and it's cross classing system. Another good example is Pillars of Eternity 2, where hybrid classes give you a wider range of abilities but actively prevent you from hyperspecializing, and lock you out of the best endgame abilities, while giving you a lot of versatility because each class has a unique resource, and multi-classed characters have two resource pools.

I don't think it's a good fit for ESO. At least not how the game exists right now. The reason is the classes were not designed with the idea that you'd be mixing cross class with impunity. There's a few very broken skill combos that are currently impossible, and simply opening up all classes to any character would actually reduce build diversity (which may sound surprising).

There's ways to limit this, and like I said, when you have a game designed around multi-class systems, it can be very cool, and lead to some really unique build concepts. I also think it is a good fit with The Elder Scrolls. But, it's not a great fit for ESO, as it exists currently.

Well, that shp has sailed on launch, but they should concentrate on balancing what they have because venturing forth....as in look at psijic line which in now "mandatory for end game content" everyone spamming crushing/ele weapon and light attacks...which is ***.

But anyway, its a thread about skyshards/lorebooks/psijic becoming account wide ( and why it should have been so since release since it is nothing but braindead anti-gameplay mechanic)

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

I would prefer mutiple classes on single character...like many other games do...before you jump that "no game does it" out of your ignorance.

In fact i would prefer classless system where you can just choose ANY skill line to put skillpoints in.

But dont get upset again because your "argument" fell apart....again.

Final fantasy 11 and 14 both do 1 toon can switch to any class and you also can share certain abilities from classes you have leveled up. Like for example warrior is the only tank to get provoke (taunt) in that game so you basically level warrior up to gain access to provoke and the other tank classes in the game now have access to it.

Lineage 2 too (with some hoops but still it offers the option, you can have 3 classess on 1 character iirc)

But ignorant people here most likely only played single MMO game and have no clue about anyting else really and think every other game should be just like it.

I'm guessing you're defining "ignorant people here" as anyone who disagrees with the proposal.

I think it's probably more accurate to say that those who agree with the "I've done it once already so shouldn't need to do it again" idea come from a predominantly PvP and action game oriented background on console, while those who disagree with it come from a MMORPG oriented background on PC. That's an over generalisation of course, but no more so than yours and probably more accurate. For myself, as one who disagrees with any proposal to dumb the game down by reducing the structure of the gameplay under the guise of "QoL improvements" I have played most MMORPGs since 1998 (and all the single player TES games since the first, Arena, in1994).

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

ArenGesus wrote: »

Grinding the same quests and delves over and over is lame. When I create an alt, it's to support a different playstyle, not to just play the entire game over again. Yeah, I know I don't need all shards on the same character, but some grinds are just no fun, even the first time. My favorite to hate are lore books and psijic questline. Just give them to me when I reach 50. And horse stats.

When you create an alternate character you do so knowing that you will need to do all of this.

ZOS has already done a lot to reduce the lvl grind: One tamriel, removal of vet ranks, redistribution of how skill points are earned. Tons of experience scrolls and double exp events. Level up rewards. Etc.

Then there's the question of how many alts do you really need? The only things you cant change are faction and class. So if you want one of each class that's 5 characters. So you only need to level 5. That's not too bad.

Edit: I agree that horse leveling is a pain, but argue that they should allow you to pump 1 in each stat each day and not what it is now.

There is actually more than 5 that you can make. Each class can be a tank healer or DPS (magic and stamina) so some people would argue right now that there isn't enough room to create one of every toon without having to constantly Respec to do that.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Leveling a character doing main quests for prophet as well as dlcs ( murkmire /summerset / morrowind) lefts me spare 20 skill points now my character is pve dps what if I want to change role like to tank or healer or pvp those 20 won't be enough rather then playing and enjoying game I'd be force to grind , people these days be like if I get hit by stone while walking rather then remove it let's keep it there so others can get hit too:/

Of course they will, if you respec.

If you're trying to multi-role, why the hell should they be enough - you're basically wanting to do two characters in one?

Use the search. Search the old threads. The answers are already there.

I can 100% tell you to be a very good healer or tank it takes a lot of different skill points. To be a DPS it is not nearly as bad as a tank or healer. There is so many moves you need to have to switch between depending on your group and what you have. There is moves you need for certain fights especially if you are trying to do hard content. So yes they take more moves meaning those roles that are needed in the game have to put in more work than the DPS of this game. Healers and tanks are also expected to have many different armor sets to use depending on the situation and group set up as well.

I still never understood the "I did it so you need to do it and I want the world to burn down cry baby mentality" that those people have against a quality of life change.

I'm just going to respond by pointing out that there are over 400 skill points available in game from various sources. Respecs are available in game if you need them for gold. So 5 characters should be enough even if you feel the need to change your build. What's 10 to 20k gold anyway compared to hours of grinding?

pieratsos wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I never said there was only my way to play, or that there is only 1 way to play. I said that focusing your time specifically on collecting skyshards is incredibly boring and you deserve to bored if you're doing that.

Well, that's a mistake. As a game designer you should never seek to bore your player. You may attempt to restrict what a player does by making a process more tedious, but a bored player will look for other ways to entertain themselves. At that point, the best you can hope is that they'll only be looking at websites while waiting for load screens. At worst, they will simply fire up a different game and never return. Actively punishing a player with tedious activities is behavior that should be considered very carefully.

Also worth remembering, the Skyshards grind is supposed to be even more punishing than it is in practice. We're not supposed to have maps on hand that point us to the right locations, or addons that plant the shards on our map. Now, those are acceptable, but we are supposed to wander around aimlessly, interpreting cryptic riddles, looking for the things. Some of the boredom has already been alleviated. It was supposed to be even more punishing in its original iteration.

As with a number of mechanics in the game, it reflects another era of the game's design. One that doesn't fit as well with the game that exists today.

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Whatever silly excuses you use to justify that behavior are on you. It especially does not mean that the game needs to be streamlined, dumbed down, made more accessible, or otherwise changed to cater to your proclivities.

Wow, you broke out the dictionary for this. It would have been nice if you'd picked some appropriate arguments.

So, let's take these in no particular order:

If the game is not accessible, that's a problem. Full stop. If you're making a game, your primary source of income is from selling that game to players. Making a game obtuse or inaccessible is an option, but it's a risky one. In the case of a game that also serves as a recurring revenue stream, an inaccessible game is a poorly design choice.

ZOS has expressed interest in making the game more accessible over the years. The guild trader system, the group finder... hell, One Tamriel stands as a monument to increased accessibility.

For ESO to thrive, it does need to be as accessible as reasonably possible. At that point, picking a random collectible and screaming, "THIS IS THE HILL I WILL DIE ON!" is a little peculiar.

Dumbing a game down is when the intricacies of the game are stripped out in the name of making the game more accessible. For example, the removal of a player inventory in Bioshock was considered "dumbing it down" from System Shock 2's system.

There is no real example of ESO being dumbed down. You might be able to point to the overhaul of the Provisioning system, or the introduction of One Tamriel as examples of this, but those didn't really dumb down the experience, they simply took pain points and dealt with them.

Which is the other term you chucked out as a pejorative: Streamlining. Streamlining is where you look at issues with a game, things that interfere with the flow of the experience, and you identify and implement ways to improve it. You deal with issues that disrupt the experience.

In point of fact, "streamlining," is improving a game. Now, I know, a lot of developers do say, "we streamlined this," as code for taking out choices or options. That can happen. If ESO chose to do away with skill points, attribute points, and skill lines entirely, then locking you to specific skills on your bar based on your equipped gear, that would streamline builds, but it would also dumb down the experience.

As mentioned above, ESO has undergone some significant streamlining. The huge example is One Tamriel. Before that, if you were in different alliances and wanted to do PvE content together, you needed to either group into the same dungeon, or make sure your characters were roughly the same level, roughly in range for the content you wanted to do, and were both the same Alliance. Now, if my friend picks up the game, I can jump over there, regardless of character, and give them a hand. That's streamlining.

Collecting Skyshards is a pain point. There's no engaging gameplay decision involved in locating or using them. Certainly not after you've found them the first time. It's simply busywork. So, within that perspective, changing that system radically would be a QoL improvement.

Also, I realize you may have missed this, but, a "proclivity" is an innate impulse. You're probably familiar with it from people referring to someone's "sexual proclivities," which is a clever(ish) way to say that someone's sexual drive is unnatural and perverse. All of this is, not exactly, relevant to a discussion on ESO, (or, at least, I dearly hope it's not applicable.)

I think pvp is boring. I have caltrops on one of my characters. I want caltrops on all of my characters, though. The alliance war skill lines need to be account wide so I can have caltrops on every new character without ever having to pvp ever again.

This needs to happen because I dont like pvp and if Zos doesn't do it they will lose money because I said so.

I don't want to level legerdemain anymore either. Maybe we should add that to the list, because I think it's boring...

The PVP abilities are a way to make all players try PVP. Its a way to promote their PVP content. You are actually doing something engaging to get those abilities. You try PVP for 2-3 hours, get the abilities you want while also making AP which can be converted to gold. Its easier to get the PVP abilities, there are more incentives to get them such as gold and AP events every year and the abilities are not as mandatory as other entire skill lines so your point about losing money because its a turn off for players goes out the window. This is not even remotely close to mages guild grind.

The fact that you are even comparing trying out PVP for 2 hours to get a couple of abilities that are not even mandatory for everything while also making gold to aimlessly running around reading books actively trying to avoid any engaging game mechanic for 6-7 hours shows how completely out of touch with reality you are. And thats for mages guild alone. Then you can add other stuff to the mix and end up with a 20+ hour braindead grind that promotes nothing but actually avoiding playing the game. Thats how dumb it is.

But if giving you vigor on all ur characters meant the end of torture of the stupid grind then by all means you can have it.

What??? It's more like 1000 hours!!!

That's right: 1000 HOURS just to get 2 skills from pvp! I hate pvp! I want those skills and I'm entitled to have those skills NOW because I did it on another character!

Its literally 2-3 hours by casually doing BGs.

All I heard was 2 to 3 thousand hours. How does it keep getting worse!?!?

Well if the most challenging and engaging thing you've done in game is reading lorebooks i wouldnt be surprised if it took you that long.

pieratsos wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

I would prefer mutiple classes on single character...like many other games do...before you jump that "no game does it" out of your ignorance.

In fact i would prefer classless system where you can just choose ANY skill line to put skillpoints in.

But dont get upset again because your "argument" fell apart....again.

For the record, I actually love the class system in Grim Dawn and Titan Quest. Where you'd make your own class on the fly. My first MMO was Guild Wars, which had a split class system. There's also Elder Scrolls: Legends, which gives you a class based on which two attributes appear in your deck (granted, that's a CCG, not an RPG, but still), and I've still got a soft spot for 3rd/3.5e D&D, and it's cross classing system. Another good example is Pillars of Eternity 2, where hybrid classes give you a wider range of abilities but actively prevent you from hyperspecializing, and lock you out of the best endgame abilities, while giving you a lot of versatility because each class has a unique resource, and multi-classed characters have two resource pools.

I don't think it's a good fit for ESO. At least not how the game exists right now. The reason is the classes were not designed with the idea that you'd be mixing cross class with impunity. There's a few very broken skill combos that are currently impossible, and simply opening up all classes to any character would actually reduce build diversity (which may sound surprising).

There's ways to limit this, and like I said, when you have a game designed around multi-class systems, it can be very cool, and lead to some really unique build concepts. I also think it is a good fit with The Elder Scrolls. But, it's not a great fit for ESO, as it exists currently.

Well, that shp has sailed on launch, but they should concentrate on balancing what they have because venturing forth....as in look at psijic line which in now "mandatory for end game content" everyone spamming crushing/ele weapon and light attacks...which is ***.

But anyway, its a thread about skyshards/lorebooks/psijic becoming account wide ( and why it should have been so since release since it is nothing but braindead anti-gameplay mechanic)

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

I would prefer mutiple classes on single character...like many other games do...before you jump that "no game does it" out of your ignorance.

In fact i would prefer classless system where you can just choose ANY skill line to put skillpoints in.

But dont get upset again because your "argument" fell apart....again.

Final fantasy 11 and 14 both do 1 toon can switch to any class and you also can share certain abilities from classes you have leveled up. Like for example warrior is the only tank to get provoke (taunt) in that game so you basically level warrior up to gain access to provoke and the other tank classes in the game now have access to it.

Lineage 2 too (with some hoops but still it offers the option, you can have 3 classess on 1 character iirc)

But ignorant people here most likely only played single MMO game and have no clue about anyting else really and think every other game should be just like it.

I'm guessing you're defining "ignorant people here" as anyone who disagrees with the proposal.

I think it's probably more accurate to say that those who agree with the "I've done it once already so shouldn't need to do it again" idea come from a predominantly PvP and action game oriented background on console, while those who disagree with it come from a MMORPG oriented background on PC.

Actually no, cause the bolded part wasnt even the point people make. You are on the 14th page of the thread and you still havent figured out what the actual argument is. If you still dont understand the difference between "i did it once so i dont want to do it again" and "its a pointless braindead grind that does nothing but waste ur time" then "ignorant" would probably be the perfect description.