Protossyder wrote: »

The problem is that they would have to take the iconic Aedric Spear skill line and make it a class wide usable weapon tree while creating a completely new skill line for the Templar..
Is this really what you want? If yes, any idea for a new Templar skill line?

@Protossyder nightblade has a bow thing that it shoots and no one seems to mind everyone can equip a bow

sorcerer has an armour skill thing it can slot (bound armour) and no one seems to mind we can all equip armour

DK has a flame theme but no one seems to mind we can all equip flame staves

etc

Browiseth wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

The problem is that they would have to take the iconic Aedric Spear skill line and make it a class wide usable weapon tree while creating a completely new skill line for the Templar..
Is this really what you want? If yes, any idea for a new Templar skill line?

@Protossyder nightblade has a bow thing that it shoots and no one seems to mind everyone can equip a bow

sorcerer has an armour skill thing it can slot (bound armour) and no one seems to mind we can all equip armour

DK has a flame theme but no one seems to mind we can all equip flame staves

etc

@Browiseth

dude, the templar has a whole skill line dedicated towards spears. 5 skills and an Ultimate with fitting animations.

your "argument" is invalid.

Protossyder wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

The problem is that they would have to take the iconic Aedric Spear skill line and make it a class wide usable weapon tree while creating a completely new skill line for the Templar..
Is this really what you want? If yes, any idea for a new Templar skill line?

@Protossyder nightblade has a bow thing that it shoots and no one seems to mind everyone can equip a bow

sorcerer has an armour skill thing it can slot (bound armour) and no one seems to mind we can all equip armour

DK has a flame theme but no one seems to mind we can all equip flame staves

etc

@Browiseth

dude, the templar has a whole skill line dedicated towards spears. 5 skills and an Ultimate with fitting animations.

your "argument" is invalid.

They still will be the unique class with only light spear.

Anyway, sorc is actually the unique class that can summon but after necro, we will have 2 classes with summoning capabilities. My main is a sorc and i see no problem. Because sorc will summon daedra and necro, summon undead.

Browiseth wrote: »

yesssss

spears are super cool and being able to poke people with one would basically resolve all of eso's many, many many flaws instantly

Thanks for the awnser. I just wanna ask. What flaws are you mentioning?

Browiseth wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

The problem is that they would have to take the iconic Aedric Spear skill line and make it a class wide usable weapon tree while creating a completely new skill line for the Templar..
Is this really what you want? If yes, any idea for a new Templar skill line?

@Protossyder nightblade has a bow thing that it shoots and no one seems to mind everyone can equip a bow

sorcerer has an armour skill thing it can slot (bound armour) and no one seems to mind we can all equip armour

DK has a flame theme but no one seems to mind we can all equip flame staves

etc

@Browiseth

dude, the templar has a whole skill line dedicated towards spears. 5 skills and an Ultimate with fitting animations.

your "argument" is invalid.

@Protossyder dude, sorcerer has a whole skill line dedicated towards lightning. 5 skills and an ultimate with fitting animations

[glowing brain meme]

You just don't get it. You are comparing two skill lines that share the same damage type, but have skills that work completely different and don't intersect with each other.

I am just saying that we already have a spear skill line ingame that unfortunately happens to belong to a class. So you either take it away and watch the playerbase blow up or accept it.

The easiest way to include spears as a new weapon would be: make them the twohander version of daggers (critical chance bonus), but the skills and animations honestly just don't fit.

Soo.. any suggestions?

SkerKro wrote: »

Well, I would say keep the range from morrowwind.
0-to-12 meters of vicious poking.

And thrusting / piercing theme skills, an possibly a unique 1h weapon, spear and sword?

Offensive skill like

Skewer = 2880 stam
Range = 12 meters
Area = 5x8meters
Thrust your polearm through all targets that are directly in front of you for 3234 damage causing 123 bleed damage every 0.5 seconds for 6 seconds to all targets, the initial enemy takes 150% more damage if there is three or more additional tartgets.

Defense skill

Phalanx = 2590 stam
Range 5meters
Area self
Guarded in a 180 degree cone, countering all melee attacks with a violent thrust dealing 1390 damage at all attackers for 6 seconds. If no attacks happen refunds 50% of stamina used.

basically jabs and sun shield

SkerKro wrote: »

Well, I would say keep the range from morrowwind.
0-to-12 meters of vicious poking.

And thrusting / piercing theme skills, an possibly a unique 1h weapon, spear and sword?

Offensive skill like

Skewer = 2880 stam
Range = 12 meters
Area = 5x8meters
Thrust your polearm through all targets that are directly in front of you for 3234 damage causing 123 bleed damage every 0.5 seconds for 6 seconds to all targets, the initial enemy takes 150% more damage if there is three or more additional tartgets.

Defense skill

Phalanx = 2590 stam
Range 5meters
Area self
Guarded in a 180 degree cone, countering all melee attacks with a violent thrust dealing 1390 damage at all attackers for 6 seconds. If no attacks happen refunds 50% of stamina used.

Isn't 12 meters about 39 feet? And 5 meters about 16 feet?

Normal spears/halberds/polearms were around 6 to 8 feet. A Macedonian sarissa was only about 20 feet long and used in phalanx formations. Having a polearm that reaches for 39 feet in front of you seems to mean you have either a really, really long polearm, or really really long arms.... Or you're throwing it. The 5 meters might be doable, but you'd be holding the very end of the shaft of the spear/halberd if it's 6-8 feet long.

Somnilux wrote: »

The only thing is, is the cost worth having to add all the graphical assets to the game? They have a ton of motifs, outfits, etc that would need to have polearms added to it, all for a simple mechanics solution.

@Somnilux why do you care about the cost? you're not the one being paid to make the game

srfrogg23 wrote: »

People asked for necromancers for quite a while and now they're being added. I think a new weapon skill line would be a nice addition with the next expansion and spears have been a popular suggestion for a while now.

A popular, but obviously not well thought out suggestion.

Protossyder wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

People asked for necromancers for quite a while and now they're being added. I think a new weapon skill line would be a nice addition with the next expansion and spears have been a popular suggestion for a while now.

A popular, but obviously not well thought out suggestion.

Oh, it's "obvious", is it? Why is that, exactly?

Don't bother with new skills, just name it a two-hander and make it give crit just like daggers

SkerKro wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

People asked for necromancers for quite a while and now they're being added. I think a new weapon skill line would be a nice addition with the next expansion and spears have been a popular suggestion for a while now.

A popular, but obviously not well thought out suggestion.

In hindsight, all suggestions made by the community are not well thought of, and in general just terrible as a whole.It's all personal opinion an preferences if it interesting or not to you. What you think maybe a great idea, another will see as trash, and visa versa.

No matter how many champion and railroad for or against a suggestion, ZOS will and always have final say, even if it is universally accepted or hated.

This is not about preferences. I am not against spears, I am just pointing out that it's not easy to implement spears the right way into the game.

Let me explain it to you one last time. There are a few options provided that there already is he perfect spear skill line in the game (called Aedric Spear in case you still didn't get it)

1. Adding spears as two hander option:
- easy to implement
- skills don't fit
- terrible spear fighting animations
- just imagine your character holding a spear like the two hander sword

2. Adding spears with their own skill line while leaving Aedric Spear unchanged (maybe just make it magic dmg only which isn't a great solution):
- also easy to implement since you would copy the Aedric Spear line with minor differences (e.g. remove light effect, physical dmg only)
- templar wouldn't be unique anymore, beware the player outrage
- at least you'd have fitting skills and animations for your new weapon
- balancing issues

3. Copy and Paste Aedric Spear and create a completely new skill line for the Templar:
- that's quite a bit of work, but maybe templars can keep the aedric spears passives
- templars would lose an iconic and important skill line, beware the player outrage (rip spear shard)
- the new skill line might not be accepted by the community, beware the player outrage
- balancing issues
- probably the right, but most difficult way to implement spears into the game

As you can see, it's not so easy to find a good solution.

Protossyder wrote: »

SkerKro wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

People asked for necromancers for quite a while and now they're being added. I think a new weapon skill line would be a nice addition with the next expansion and spears have been a popular suggestion for a while now.

A popular, but obviously not well thought out suggestion.

In hindsight, all suggestions made by the community are not well thought of, and in general just terrible as a whole.It's all personal opinion an preferences if it interesting or not to you. What you think maybe a great idea, another will see as trash, and visa versa.

No matter how many champion and railroad for or against a suggestion, ZOS will and always have final say, even if it is universally accepted or hated.

This is not about preferences. I am not against spears, I am just pointing out that it's not easy to implement spears the right way into the game.

Let me explain it to you one last time. There are a few options provided that there already is he perfect spear skill line in the game (called Aedric Spear in case you still didn't get it)

1. Adding spears as two hander option:
- easy to implement
- skills don't fit
- terrible spear fighting animations
- just imagine your character holding a spear like the two hander sword

2. Adding spears with their own skill line while leaving Aedric Spear unchanged (maybe just make it magic dmg only which isn't a great solution):
- also easy to implement since you would copy the Aedric Spear line with minor differences (e.g. remove light effect, physical dmg only)
- templar wouldn't be unique anymore, beware the player outrage
- at least you'd have fitting skills and animations for your new weapon
- balancing issues

3. Copy and Paste Aedric Spear and create a completely new skill line for the Templar:
- that's quite a bit of work, but maybe templars can keep the aedric spears passives
- templars would lose an iconic and important skill line, beware the player outrage (rip spear shard)
- the new skill line might not be accepted by the community, beware the player outrage
- balancing issues
- probably the right, but most difficult way to implement spears into the game

As you can see, it's not so easy to find a good solution.

gonna be straight with you here man, but it feels like you're suggesting we find a solution for a problem that doesn't and wouldn't exist

let ZOS worry about the balance friendo

Protossyder wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

People asked for necromancers for quite a while and now they're being added. I think a new weapon skill line would be a nice addition with the next expansion and spears have been a popular suggestion for a while now.

A popular, but obviously not well thought out suggestion.

Oh, it's "obvious", is it? Why is that, exactly?

Because of the "spear as weapon" - "aedric spear" conflict. If you don't see a problem there I can't help you, sorry.

Abilities that have the appearance of a spear and actually wielding a spear don't conflict pal

Protossyder wrote: »

SkerKro wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

People asked for necromancers for quite a while and now they're being added. I think a new weapon skill line would be a nice addition with the next expansion and spears have been a popular suggestion for a while now.

A popular, but obviously not well thought out suggestion.

In hindsight, all suggestions made by the community are not well thought of, and in general just terrible as a whole.It's all personal opinion an preferences if it interesting or not to you. What you think maybe a great idea, another will see as trash, and visa versa.

No matter how many champion and railroad for or against a suggestion, ZOS will and always have final say, even if it is universally accepted or hated.

This is not about preferences. I am not against spears, I am just pointing out that it's not easy to implement spears the right way into the game.

Let me explain it to you one last time. There are a few options provided that there already is he perfect spear skill line in the game (called Aedric Spear in case you still didn't get it)

1. Adding spears as two hander option:
- easy to implement
- skills don't fit
- terrible spear fighting animations
- just imagine your character holding a spear like the two hander sword

2. Adding spears with their own skill line while leaving Aedric Spear unchanged (maybe just make it magic dmg only which isn't a great solution):
- also easy to implement since you would copy the Aedric Spear line with minor differences (e.g. remove light effect, physical dmg only)
- templar wouldn't be unique anymore, beware the player outrage
- at least you'd have fitting skills and animations for your new weapon
- balancing issues

3. Copy and Paste Aedric Spear and create a completely new skill line for the Templar:
- that's quite a bit of work, but maybe templars can keep the aedric spears passives
- templars would lose an iconic and important skill line, beware the player outrage (rip spear shard)
- the new skill line might not be accepted by the community, beware the player outrage
- balancing issues
- probably the right, but most difficult way to implement spears into the game

As you can see, it's not so easy to find a good solution.

Looking to Aedric spear skills and trying to "translate" to non magical skills

Radial Sweep - Will not fit an regular non magical spear
Puncturing Strikes - Fit if will not applies reduction on speed
Piercing Javelin - Not fit if your spear isn't magical, unless you can magically "recall" your spear
Focused Charge The animation fits but the stun not
Spear Shards - Will definitively not fit
Sun Shield - Will not fit

The skills needs to be different for a non magical spear.