Now that event tickets can be bought, should transmute stones be added to the crown store?
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david_m_18b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭What counts as "pay to win" is very different for a lot of people. I'd say pay to win is already "paying money to skip ahead of non-paying players". I intentionally phrased that a bit loosely. Buying transmute gems to skip the grind for gems, which are already there to skip grind for gear (but not to replace it entirely), comes down to paying for BiS gear with money. That's pretty pay-to-win in my opinion.
It's a little different for the Indrik imo, because unlike transmutation gems, tickets are limited, provide cosmetic items only (so far), and are meant as a catch-up mechanic and not a replacement (just like transmutation gems) as can be seen by the rediculous price of 250 crowns per ticket.
Since the introduction of gifting and the resulting crown exchange, we already have a pay to win situation in a way, but it is at least tied to outside conditions and willing players to pay gold. The grind doesn't disappear, but it gets outsourced and that is at least somewhat legit compared to completely skipping it.
*sigh*
p2w means you can obtain bis gear exclusively with money. Someone buying some tm stones to shortcut a wait of 10 days from rotw boxes hardly fits that definition. Or someone buying riding lessons so their mount runs faster than the speed of slow, again, doesn't fit that definittion.
That is your definition, not THE definition.5 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They could simply adjust so that players could actually sell transmutation "stones" via guild traders. Nothing in terms of pay to win and problems solved. Simple ast that.
Quoted for truth. This is the best and simplest solution for this issue and many other issues involving BoP items.
#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »What counts as "pay to win" is very different for a lot of people. I'd say pay to win is already "paying money to skip ahead of non-paying players". I intentionally phrased that a bit loosely. Buying transmute gems to skip the grind for gems, which are already there to skip grind for gear (but not to replace it entirely), comes down to paying for BiS gear with money. That's pretty pay-to-win in my opinion.
It's a little different for the Indrik imo, because unlike transmutation gems, tickets are limited, provide cosmetic items only (so far), and are meant as a catch-up mechanic and not a replacement (just like transmutation gems) as can be seen by the rediculous price of 250 crowns per ticket.
Since the introduction of gifting and the resulting crown exchange, we already have a pay to win situation in a way, but it is at least tied to outside conditions and willing players to pay gold. The grind doesn't disappear, but it gets outsourced and that is at least somewhat legit compared to completely skipping it.
*sigh*
p2w means you can obtain bis gear exclusively with money. Someone buying some tm stones to shortcut a wait of 10 days from rotw boxes hardly fits that definition. Or someone buying riding lessons so their mount runs faster than the speed of slow, again, doesn't fit that definittion.
That is your definition, not THE definition.
You're confused, it's been THE definition since p2w was a thing.
You can call a cat a dog as much as you like it won't start wagging its tail and barking at you.0 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
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It's amazing how many players have an extremely narrow definition of P2W either based on their experiences with other games or what the impact is to the parts of the game they enjoy.david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »That is your definition, not THE definition.
It's a very general term based on what one considers winning to be. So to a player who is mainly interested in collecting and considers 'winning' to be collecting everything, most of the Crown store could be considered P2W.
ZOS is already sliding down the slippery slope of manufacturing inconveniences that Crown store purchases can resolve. We should not encourage them to go further down that path or the result will be even more tedious gameplay that you can avoid by paying extra.0 -
Merlight✭✭✭✭✭david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »*sigh*
p2w means you can obtain bis gear exclusively with money. Someone buying some tm stones to shortcut a wait of 10 days from rotw boxes hardly fits that definition. Or someone buying riding lessons so their mount runs faster than the speed of slow, again, doesn't fit that definittion.
That is your definition, not THE definition.
You're confused, it's been THE definition since p2w was a thing.
You can call a cat a dog as much as you like it won't start wagging its tail and barking at you.
You mean A definition in urban dictionary. However, there are better sources of information.
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Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »*sigh*
p2w means you can obtain bis gear exclusively with money. Someone buying some tm stones to shortcut a wait of 10 days from rotw boxes hardly fits that definition. Or someone buying riding lessons so their mount runs faster than the speed of slow, again, doesn't fit that definittion.
That is your definition, not THE definition.
You're confused, it's been THE definition since p2w was a thing.
You can call a cat a dog as much as you like it won't start wagging its tail and barking at you.
You mean A definition in urban dictionary. However, there are better sources of information.
The urbandictionary one was a pretty bad definition, but the wikipedia entry sums it up in the first sentence.
Transmute items are special items that allow you to change the trait on gear, but it takes time in order to obtain them. If you don't have the transmute stones you can spend months farming gear in the proper trait. Selling them outright in the crown store for money IS pay-to-win.In some games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain an advantage over those playing for free who might otherwise need to spend time progressing in order to unlock said items.Edited by Alucardo on March 25, 2019 11:15AM2 -
Michae✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How often do you transmute and what does it get you anyway? I'm sitting on 200 crystals and a lot of uncracked geodes and I don't know what to do with them."I bear the cruel weight of certainty. Total, absolute, relentless certainty. People rarely comprehend the luxury of doubt... the freedom that comes with indecision. I envy you."
―Sotha Sil
@Michae PC/EU0 -
sevomd69✭✭✭✭✭
✭MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »I mean it's technically not pay to win
So upgrading that training staff to sharpened, infused or nirnhoned won't boost your damage? Or changing those training armor pieces to impen won't keep you alive longer in PvP?
Selling anything that enhances your effectiveness in game is p2w, no matter how you look at it
Really? So, precisely what advantages are conferred upon purchaser of transmute stones that non-paying cheapskates can't obtain in game?
You mean other than being able to upgrade any gear they want at will, while I wait 30 days just to be able to upgrade 1 item? Calling people who don't spend money in the crown store 'cheapskates' is a little below the belt. I still sub and buy chapters. Considering the horrible performance this game offers I don't know why, but I do.
Then maybe yo shouldn't be so frivolous in your use of them then. I have 8 characters all geared up and still am sitting on over 2000 of them.
Not really relevant though. Not p2w by any stretch of the imagination.
I mean, sure, you can grind multiple characters to get more stones, but if you play only one then you're out of luck. This blurb from althead sums it rather nicely:Games that have the pay to win system incorporated usually try to obfuscate this trait by allowing players unlock everything by in-game means. Their developers and publishers will claim that ''players can either invest their time or their money in order to unlock items or progress through the game''. This sentence is a red flag you should never ignore, as in all cases up to this point it literally translated into ''you will either cough up the money or spend hundreds of hours grinding and still be at a disadvantage compared to someone who bought progression''. Cue Ubisoft Starter Edition meme.
Going by your line of thought...selling extra character slots in Crown Store...are PTW...because I can grind even more characters to get even more stones...even more stones would allow me to trait change even more BSW inferno staffs...and having even more infused BSW inferno staffs would allow me to WIN THIS GAME...MWUA-HAHAHAH (cue evil laughter)...uhhh...no... If you wanna see what blatant P2W looks like go play Neverwinter...0 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How often do you transmute and what does it get you anyway? I'm sitting on 200 crystals and a lot of uncracked geodes and I don't know what to do with them.
It varies a lot by player.
I transmute rarely because there are no sources of transmute crystals outside of PvP (which I do not play) and group content (which I play only occassionally).
That said, I absolutely do NOT want transmute crystals in the damn cash shop.0 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Facefister wrote: »
I also want a loot chest, including monster helmets, for 1000 crowns at the very beginning of the dungeon/trial. Hey, I am going to clear it anyways so I just pay for convenience.MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »I mean it's technically not pay to win. It's convenience just like paying for your mount speed 1000 crowns at a time. With 12 characters all maxed and playable, you can get between 30 and 80 a day already, though that takes a long time. I currently have 3 characters i can do it on a day, and I get 20 on a good day when I feel like playing all 3 characters. If it's like that, they'd probably charge something like 1,000 crowns for 50 transmute stones, or possibly even just a transmute coupon that lets you transmute for free for a similar price.
I still insist.0 -
todokete✭✭✭✭✭It's just pay for convenience and the game is full of those so why not? I could skip some mindless grind0 -
Rackdaniels✭✭✭Research scrolls,riding skills,you name it.Don’t see fuss about this issue if it would happen one day.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Selling stuff who give an advantage and is either hard or time consuming to get is seen as P2W by most.
It's amazing how many players have an extremely narrow definition of P2W either based on their experiences with other games or what the impact is to the parts of the game they enjoy.david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »That is your definition, not THE definition.
It's a very general term based on what one considers winning to be. So to a player who is mainly interested in collecting and considers 'winning' to be collecting everything, most of the Crown store could be considered P2W.
ZOS is already sliding down the slippery slope of manufacturing inconveniences that Crown store purchases can resolve. We should not encourage them to go further down that path or the result will be even more tedious gameplay that you can avoid by paying extra.
Horse riding falls under this definition as its an advantage in PvP even if fairly mild.
Crown repair kits are not as repair kits are easy to get and cheap.
Selling perfected weapons and stuff like that would be obvious P2W even if you can get them in game as this is hard.
Honestly I find transmute crystals to be so easy to get that I would group it with soul gems and repair kits.
main issue is that they are a bit time gated. Jump to Sota sil and get 15K AP this give an 50 crystal geode, but at end of campaign, you also get 5 or more in ROW boxes but they can only be opened once a day for crystals all the time.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They should however remove the limit on transmute stones, noone is gonna buy eso+ for extra storage anyway, and ppl have found alternate ways (albit harder) of storing thousands of transmute stones via just stashing away the transmute bags on alts.
PC EU
PvP only0 -
Blinkin8r✭✭✭✭✭Absolutely not. I'm all for removing the cap on transmute crystals, but selling them in the CS would be an absolute joke. If you want bis gear/traits work for it. It's worlds easier than it used to be as it is.II Blinkin II
Xbox 1 NA
"A man without the sauce is lost, but the same man can become lost in the sauce."1 -
shaielzafine✭✭✭✭✭
@Merlightshaielzafine wrote: »We already have things like XP scrolls in the store to make life convenient.
Whose life?
What's your point? People that have XP boosts spend less time leveling & grinding. We can make psijic / aetherial ambrosia in game and also buy XP scrolls in the store. We can sub to eso+ and get 10% increase to Gold & Experience acquisition, 10% increase to Crafting Inspiration & Trait Research rates, etcetera. I had eso+ sub and had xp scrolls and partnered with someone higher level in skyreach for convenience. It took less than a day to get to 50 with training gear. That's so much more convenient than questing for who knows how long lol. Similarly, I will be buying the event tickets from the crown store because I don't like doing the event quests and I don't want to participate. I just want the rewards. That's convenience right there. If they add transmute stones to the crown store, I'll buy those too.Edited by shaielzafine on March 25, 2019 6:29PM0 -
Zalathorm✭✭✭✭Farming transmutation stones is why craglorn is SO ACTIVE for pugs. Newer players can easily find trials with more experienced players because everyone needs their weekly coffers.
As much as I would personally love to have all the stones I need whenever I want them, I like joining groups within minutes of going LFG on a nightly basis for these trials.
Trans stones in crown store may kill normal trial activity.1
