Alright, something needs to be done about SnB
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Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭How about this: Nerf the damage heroic/ransack provides, but allow the full value of glyphs (similar to 2h) if you have a shield equipped.
Most use poisons anyway, so this would still just be a nerf. I still don't see an issue ith heroic/ransack dmg though, it isn't even strong. It only becomes good when you do light attack bash combo but that is expensive, even on my high sustain build I can't just spam that, but I play no cp where it's much more balanced.
0 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't know if anyone has noticed, but the number of "DPS Tanks" in PvP is getting out of control. It should not be possible to hit a 10k heroic slash tooltip with above capped resistances, especially considering all the other utility it provides. Quite frankly, HS is overloaded.
My suggestion is simple: Remove, or significantly reduce the damage portion of this skill, as well as puncture. They were made to be utility abilities for tanks, not to outdamage a medium armor build smashing you with dizzying swing.
Tanks do not need to be dealing the amount of damage they do while also having the gift of immortality. I'd go further to also reduce the damage of bash (interrupt, not the SnB skill).
Please note, I'm just asking for the damage part to be taken away. So this should not affect PvE as the utility of these skills are completely left in place. In fact, with the damage part completely nerfed you could make up for it by reducing the cost of the skill by 3-5%
This guy really deleted my comment lol. Once again this thread is a pure salt thread. Anyway, he doesn't want balance he's salty that somebody he couldn't kill with dizzy swing turned around and killed him with heroic slash. He wants the player gimped so that the next time he sees them he'll have a better chance than when he got packed up. Don't be fooled by him painting it as a call for balance lol. We've all been there in a duel before. You know when you beat someone while using heroic slash or bleeds or cloak or purge or harness magicka and they tell you "the only reason you beat me was because you were using one of the above" so you drop whatever skill they are complaining about pack them up again and then they give you another excuse other than just admitting they were outplayed. That is him all day. He was outplayed and can't handle it so he is blaming heroic slash instead of his lack of skill.
Your personal attack was removed by the moderators and you come back with another personal attack? Perhaps you should re-evaluate your position.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..4 -
Ayastigi✭✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »I don't know if anyone has noticed, but the number of "DPS Tanks" in PvP is getting out of control. It should not be possible to hit a 10k heroic slash tooltip with above capped resistances, especially considering all the other utility it provides. Quite frankly, HS is overloaded.
My suggestion is simple: Remove, or significantly reduce the damage portion of this skill, as well as puncture. They were made to be utility abilities for tanks, not to outdamage a medium armor build smashing you with dizzying swing.
Tanks do not need to be dealing the amount of damage they do while also having the gift of immortality. I'd go further to also reduce the damage of bash (interrupt, not the SnB skill).
Please note, I'm just asking for the damage part to be taken away. So this should not affect PvE as the utility of these skills are completely left in place. In fact, with the damage part completely nerfed you could make up for it by reducing the cost of the skill by 3-5%
This guy really deleted my comment lol. Once again this thread is a pure salt thread. Anyway, he doesn't want balance he's salty that somebody he couldn't kill with dizzy swing turned around and killed him with heroic slash. He wants the player gimped so that the next time he sees them he'll have a better chance than when he got packed up. Don't be fooled by him painting it as a call for balance lol. We've all been there in a duel before. You know when you beat someone while using heroic slash or bleeds or cloak or purge or harness magicka and they tell you "the only reason you beat me was because you were using one of the above" so you drop whatever skill they are complaining about pack them up again and then they give you another excuse other than just admitting they were outplayed. That is him all day. He was outplayed and can't handle it so he is blaming heroic slash instead of his lack of skill.
Your personal attack was removed by the moderators and you come back with another personal attack? Perhaps you should re-evaluate your position.
Call it a personal attack or whatever it's what happened. How are grown men this soft that when you say somebody is salty that they were packed up (which he is) they call it a personal attack lmaoo.3 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Again. There is 0 reason to nerf heroic slash. If anything, the way light attacks and bash can be weaved in the same global should be looked at.
There is zero point in complaining about one ability that can just be replaced by any other ability to accomplish the same results.
Also, dual wield and 2H are both strong in pvp, so why can't s/b be strong? Making s/b literally only good for pve tanking would be a horrible design and balance decision.4 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »I don't know if anyone has noticed, but the number of "DPS Tanks" in PvP is getting out of control. It should not be possible to hit a 10k heroic slash tooltip with above capped resistances, especially considering all the other utility it provides. Quite frankly, HS is overloaded.
My suggestion is simple: Remove, or significantly reduce the damage portion of this skill, as well as puncture. They were made to be utility abilities for tanks, not to outdamage a medium armor build smashing you with dizzying swing.
Tanks do not need to be dealing the amount of damage they do while also having the gift of immortality. I'd go further to also reduce the damage of bash (interrupt, not the SnB skill).
Please note, I'm just asking for the damage part to be taken away. So this should not affect PvE as the utility of these skills are completely left in place. In fact, with the damage part completely nerfed you could make up for it by reducing the cost of the skill by 3-5%
This guy really deleted my comment lol. Once again this thread is a pure salt thread. Anyway, he doesn't want balance he's salty that somebody he couldn't kill with dizzy swing turned around and killed him with heroic slash. He wants the player gimped so that the next time he sees them he'll have a better chance than when he got packed up. Don't be fooled by him painting it as a call for balance lol. We've all been there in a duel before. You know when you beat someone while using heroic slash or bleeds or cloak or purge or harness magicka and they tell you "the only reason you beat me was because you were using one of the above" so you drop whatever skill they are complaining about pack them up again and then they give you another excuse other than just admitting they were outplayed. That is him all day. He was outplayed and can't handle it so he is blaming heroic slash instead of his lack of skill.
Your personal attack was removed by the moderators and you come back with another personal attack? Perhaps you should re-evaluate your position.
Call it a personal attack or whatever it's what happened. How are grown men this soft that when you say somebody is salty that they were packed up (which he is) they call it a personal attack lmaoo.
You continue to make claims which are entirely unsubstantiated. Perhaps what you say is true perhaps not. Not everyone is a man and not everyone is "grown". I suggest you read the following link to see why your comments get removed. The OP does not have the power to remove your comments.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843/community-rulesLegendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..1 -
Flame_of_Hades✭✭✭Again. There is 0 reason to nerf heroic slash. If anything, the way light attacks and bash can be weaved in the same global should be looked at.
There is zero point in complaining about one ability that can just be replaced by any other ability to accomplish the same results.
Also, dual wield and 2H are both strong in pvp, so why can't s/b be strong? Making s/b literally only good for pve tanking would be a horrible design and balance decision.
The Problem isn't that S+B is doing the same or slightly less damage than 2h/dw, its that its doing that damage while also giving the vastly superior defense.
In the history of the game, this same thing happened before, and it got nerfed because being able to high damage while being tanky was considered OP. MagDK was nerfed into the ground, because they had MASSIVE damage while being almost unkillable.... sound like certain builds we see today?3 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rofl... you have someone complaining heroic slash does to much damage? Jesus......
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos2 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Again. There is 0 reason to nerf heroic slash. If anything, the way light attacks and bash can be weaved in the same global should be looked at.
There is zero point in complaining about one ability that can just be replaced by any other ability to accomplish the same results.
Also, dual wield and 2H are both strong in pvp, so why can't s/b be strong? Making s/b literally only good for pve tanking would be a horrible design and balance decision.
The Problem isn't that S+B is doing the same or slightly less damage than 2h/dw, its that its doing that damage while also giving the vastly superior defense.
In the history of the game, this same thing happened before, and it got nerfed because being able to high damage while being tanky was considered OP. MagDK was nerfed into the ground, because they had MASSIVE damage while being almost unkillable.... sound like certain builds we see today?
S and shield doesn’t do the same damage as two hander or dw....https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Well you need to tell the derplord who made the thread that
"My suggestion is simple: Remove, or significantly reduce the damage portion of this skill, as well as puncture. They were made to be utility abilities for tanks, not to outdamage a medium armor build smashing you with dizzying swing.
Tanks do not need to be dealing the amount of damage they do while also having the gift of immortality. I'd go further to also reduce the damage of bash (interrupt, not the SnB skill)."
*grin*
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos2 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Well you need to tell the derplord who made the thread that
"My suggestion is simple: Remove, or significantly reduce the damage portion of this skill, as well as puncture. They were made to be utility abilities for tanks, not to outdamage a medium armor build smashing you with dizzying swing.
Tanks do not need to be dealing the amount of damage they do while also having the gift of immortality. I'd go further to also reduce the damage of bash (interrupt, not the SnB skill)."
*grin*
When I'm buffed my heroic is over 10k. Why does a skill that provides minor maim, 60% snare, AND minor heroism need that much damage as well? And if you read I said it's not "just" about the damage, implying it is, but that's not all.
So go ahead, grin all you like.0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Well you need to tell the derplord who made the thread that
"My suggestion is simple: Remove, or significantly reduce the damage portion of this skill, as well as puncture. They were made to be utility abilities for tanks, not to outdamage a medium armor build smashing you with dizzying swing.
Tanks do not need to be dealing the amount of damage they do while also having the gift of immortality. I'd go further to also reduce the damage of bash (interrupt, not the SnB skill)."
*grin*
When I'm buffed my heroic is over 10k. Why does a skill that provides minor maim, 60% snare, AND minor heroism need that much damage as well? And if you read I said it's not "just" about the damage, implying it is, but that's not all.
So go ahead, grin all you like.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here...What skill are you comparing it to?
Dizzying Swing? Which has a stun technically and does more damage and applies whatever passive you have depending on the weapon.
Maybe Steel Tornado? Which does more damage since it bloody hits through dodge and is AOE and has a massive radius?
Maybe you wanna compare it to some Class abilities...how about Jabs, which is aoe, cone based and does more damage and procs a nuke and provides crit...
Surprise Attack? Does more damage, can use with a weapon, applies the fracture...
What i'm getting is..you say it does a lot of damage, But pretty much every other spammable out there does more damage...Hell even in the own S&B line itself if you don't have a Fracture Debuff (Stam Sorcs) you're probably better off going Puncture which is slightly less damage and less cost. The only two classes who really get a benefit out of using Heroic Slash is Stam DK and Stam Warden.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm not sure what you're getting at here...What skill are you comparing it to?
Dizzying Swing? Which has a stun technically and does more damage and applies whatever passive you have depending on the weapon.
Maybe Steel Tornado? Which does more damage since it bloody hits through dodge and is AOE and has a massive radius?
Maybe you wanna compare it to some Class abilities...how about Jabs, which is aoe, cone based and does more damage and procs a nuke and provides crit...
Surprise Attack? Does more damage, can use with a weapon, applies the fracture...
What i'm getting is..you say it does a lot of damage, But pretty much every other spammable out there does more damage...Hell even in the own S&B line itself if you don't have a Fracture Debuff (Stam Sorcs) you're probably better off going Puncture which is slightly less damage and less cost. The only two classes who really get a benefit out of using Heroic Slash is Stam DK and Stam Warden.
And what I'm getting at is, not every spammable DD skill is instant cast and offers the benefits that heroic does. A majority of the time a SnB build will destroy someone spamming dizzying swing because they can literally walk through it. They'll also have a higher ultimate uptime, and reduce their damage taken by 15% - not to mention the extra mitigation they get just from having a shield.
As for steel tornado. Sure spam that all you like while I'm full health, but you'll just deplete your resources and do literally no damage to me, especially with my 100% uptime on minor maim thanks to heroic.Edited by Alucardo on March 21, 2019 5:00AM1 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Again. There is 0 reason to nerf heroic slash. If anything, the way light attacks and bash can be weaved in the same global should be looked at.
There is zero point in complaining about one ability that can just be replaced by any other ability to accomplish the same results.
Also, dual wield and 2H are both strong in pvp, so why can't s/b be strong? Making s/b literally only good for pve tanking would be a horrible design and balance decision.
The Problem isn't that S+B is doing the same or slightly less damage than 2h/dw, its that its doing that damage while also giving the vastly superior defense.
In the history of the game, this same thing happened before, and it got nerfed because being able to high damage while being tanky was considered OP. MagDK was nerfed into the ground, because they had MASSIVE damage while being almost unkillable.... sound like certain builds we see today?
So you admit that the problem isn't specifically heroic slash, but the overall performance of sword and board...
I don't pvp a ton, but I have yet to encounter these crazy tank builds that kill everything using sword and board.
I play a stamina templar and I wouldn't even consider it as a front bar weapon. I use it on the back bar for passive defense while I heal and rebuff, but that's it. Weaving bash with heroic strike will drain you of stamina much faster than a normal rotation with jabs or surprise attack using dw or 2h, and you will still deal less damage.
Someone was pointing out that a 10k tooltip on heroic slash was a problem.. and I'm thinking to myself... dizzying swing with the same buffs has 20k tooltip so what's the issue?
To me this seems less like an imbalance and more like someone lost to a s/b build and is upset. Tanky builds are annoying in any mmo but that doesn't always make them op.1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Then you're completely blind.Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Again. There is 0 reason to nerf heroic slash. If anything, the way light attacks and bash can be weaved in the same global should be looked at.
There is zero point in complaining about one ability that can just be replaced by any other ability to accomplish the same results.
Also, dual wield and 2H are both strong in pvp, so why can't s/b be strong? Making s/b literally only good for pve tanking would be a horrible design and balance decision.
The Problem isn't that S+B is doing the same or slightly less damage than 2h/dw, its that its doing that damage while also giving the vastly superior defense.
In the history of the game, this same thing happened before, and it got nerfed because being able to high damage while being tanky was considered OP. MagDK was nerfed into the ground, because they had MASSIVE damage while being almost unkillable.... sound like certain builds we see today?
I don't pvp a ton, but I have yet to encounter these crazy tank builds that kill everything using sword and board.
Now I don't know all of these players. I just looked up stam dk videos and picked some out by random. What do they all have in common? They all use SnB as their primary spammable
I mean, I could go on for days. Just tonight I saw several of these builds (on dks and stam sorcs) taking on groups of people at a resource. They are quite literally everywhere.
1 -
Ayastigi✭✭✭✭
Then you're completely blind.Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Again. There is 0 reason to nerf heroic slash. If anything, the way light attacks and bash can be weaved in the same global should be looked at.
There is zero point in complaining about one ability that can just be replaced by any other ability to accomplish the same results.
Also, dual wield and 2H are both strong in pvp, so why can't s/b be strong? Making s/b literally only good for pve tanking would be a horrible design and balance decision.
The Problem isn't that S+B is doing the same or slightly less damage than 2h/dw, its that its doing that damage while also giving the vastly superior defense.
In the history of the game, this same thing happened before, and it got nerfed because being able to high damage while being tanky was considered OP. MagDK was nerfed into the ground, because they had MASSIVE damage while being almost unkillable.... sound like certain builds we see today?
I don't pvp a ton, but I have yet to encounter these crazy tank builds that kill everything using sword and board.
Now I don't know all of these players. I just looked up stam dk videos and picked some out by random. What do they all have in common? They all use SnB as their primary spammable
I mean, I could go on for days. Just tonight I saw several of these builds (on dks and stam sorcs) taking on groups of people at a resource. They are quite literally everywhere.
You still doing this clown stuff lol? Spartacus007 and Itsalob are two of the top stam dks on ps4 and xb1 respectively and would do that without 1h/s which they have showcased many times. If you are average at this game it's not hard to get clips killing 3-8ppl when the right conditions are met. During midyear mayhem a person can get a 1v7clip on a bow/bow hybrid build if they run into the right group. My point is that you're mistaking a skill being over-tuned with your lack of skill. From your first posts when you were talking about "snb macro lords" it was apparent this is l2p.1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Then you're completely blind.Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Again. There is 0 reason to nerf heroic slash. If anything, the way light attacks and bash can be weaved in the same global should be looked at.
There is zero point in complaining about one ability that can just be replaced by any other ability to accomplish the same results.
Also, dual wield and 2H are both strong in pvp, so why can't s/b be strong? Making s/b literally only good for pve tanking would be a horrible design and balance decision.
The Problem isn't that S+B is doing the same or slightly less damage than 2h/dw, its that its doing that damage while also giving the vastly superior defense.
In the history of the game, this same thing happened before, and it got nerfed because being able to high damage while being tanky was considered OP. MagDK was nerfed into the ground, because they had MASSIVE damage while being almost unkillable.... sound like certain builds we see today?
I don't pvp a ton, but I have yet to encounter these crazy tank builds that kill everything using sword and board.
Now I don't know all of these players. I just looked up stam dk videos and picked some out by random. What do they all have in common? They all use SnB as their primary spammable
I mean, I could go on for days. Just tonight I saw several of these builds (on dks and stam sorcs) taking on groups of people at a resource. They are quite literally everywhere.
You still doing this clown stuff lol? Spartacus007 and Itsalob are two of the top stam dks on ps4 and xb1 respectively and would do that without 1h/s which they have showcased many times. If you are average at this game it's not hard to get clips killing 3-8ppl when the right conditions are met. During midyear mayhem a person can get a 1v7clip on a bow/bow hybrid build if they run into the right group. My point is that you're mistaking a skill being over-tuned with your lack of skill. From your first posts when you were talking about "snb macro lords" it was apparent this is l2p.
If all you can contribute to this thread is "l2p" and "your lack of skill" comments, then can you kindly go somewhere else? People can have their own opinions, and explain why they believe this ability is fine the way it is, but personally attacking me without any valid evidence is pointless.2 -
Ayastigi✭✭✭✭
Then you're completely blind.Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Again. There is 0 reason to nerf heroic slash. If anything, the way light attacks and bash can be weaved in the same global should be looked at.
There is zero point in complaining about one ability that can just be replaced by any other ability to accomplish the same results.
Also, dual wield and 2H are both strong in pvp, so why can't s/b be strong? Making s/b literally only good for pve tanking would be a horrible design and balance decision.
The Problem isn't that S+B is doing the same or slightly less damage than 2h/dw, its that its doing that damage while also giving the vastly superior defense.
In the history of the game, this same thing happened before, and it got nerfed because being able to high damage while being tanky was considered OP. MagDK was nerfed into the ground, because they had MASSIVE damage while being almost unkillable.... sound like certain builds we see today?
I don't pvp a ton, but I have yet to encounter these crazy tank builds that kill everything using sword and board.
Now I don't know all of these players. I just looked up stam dk videos and picked some out by random. What do they all have in common? They all use SnB as their primary spammable
I mean, I could go on for days. Just tonight I saw several of these builds (on dks and stam sorcs) taking on groups of people at a resource. They are quite literally everywhere.
You still doing this clown stuff lol? Spartacus007 and Itsalob are two of the top stam dks on ps4 and xb1 respectively and would do that without 1h/s which they have showcased many times. If you are average at this game it's not hard to get clips killing 3-8ppl when the right conditions are met. During midyear mayhem a person can get a 1v7clip on a bow/bow hybrid build if they run into the right group. My point is that you're mistaking a skill being over-tuned with your lack of skill. From your first posts when you were talking about "snb macro lords" it was apparent this is l2p.
If all you can contribute to this thread is "l2p" and "your lack of skill" comments, then can you kindly go somewhere else? People can have their own opinions, and explain why they believe this ability is fine the way it is, but personally attacking me without any valid evidence is pointless.
Nope, can't do it. I'm here not just for myself but for everybody else your salt post might affect. @Xsorus showed how your first post was only about damage when you said it wasn't, so your response was sarcasm. When @El_Borracho made a comment you said "this is why I donate regularly to BDS; a society that helps children who have brain cell deterioration caused by too much gaming". So don't act all like a victim when you have been casting stones the whole thread. Fact is the truth hurts. Fact is this is l2p. This is a salt post written by someone who was packed up by a better player, it happens to all of us on this game. The difference is some of us try to focus on our own shortcomings and improve upon them and the others go blaming the other's players "over-tuned skills " instead of self-reflecting..you are in the latter category obviouslyEdited by Ayastigi on March 21, 2019 8:53PM3 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Then you're completely blind.Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Again. There is 0 reason to nerf heroic slash. If anything, the way light attacks and bash can be weaved in the same global should be looked at.
There is zero point in complaining about one ability that can just be replaced by any other ability to accomplish the same results.
Also, dual wield and 2H are both strong in pvp, so why can't s/b be strong? Making s/b literally only good for pve tanking would be a horrible design and balance decision.
The Problem isn't that S+B is doing the same or slightly less damage than 2h/dw, its that its doing that damage while also giving the vastly superior defense.
In the history of the game, this same thing happened before, and it got nerfed because being able to high damage while being tanky was considered OP. MagDK was nerfed into the ground, because they had MASSIVE damage while being almost unkillable.... sound like certain builds we see today?
I don't pvp a ton, but I have yet to encounter these crazy tank builds that kill everything using sword and board.
Now I don't know all of these players. I just looked up stam dk videos and picked some out by random. What do they all have in common? They all use SnB as their primary spammable
I mean, I could go on for days. Just tonight I saw several of these builds (on dks and stam sorcs) taking on groups of people at a resource. They are quite literally everywhere.
You still doing this clown stuff lol? Spartacus007 and Itsalob are two of the top stam dks on ps4 and xb1 respectively and would do that without 1h/s which they have showcased many times. If you are average at this game it's not hard to get clips killing 3-8ppl when the right conditions are met. During midyear mayhem a person can get a 1v7clip on a bow/bow hybrid build if they run into the right group. My point is that you're mistaking a skill being over-tuned with your lack of skill. From your first posts when you were talking about "snb macro lords" it was apparent this is l2p.
Yes, it can be done without S&B, but you don't gain much by doing so. While you gain significant defensive capabilities from running S&B. So why run a more offensive setup when you can deal damage at relatively similar levels from a defensive setup?Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
Ayastigi✭✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »
Then you're completely blind.Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Again. There is 0 reason to nerf heroic slash. If anything, the way light attacks and bash can be weaved in the same global should be looked at.
There is zero point in complaining about one ability that can just be replaced by any other ability to accomplish the same results.
Also, dual wield and 2H are both strong in pvp, so why can't s/b be strong? Making s/b literally only good for pve tanking would be a horrible design and balance decision.
The Problem isn't that S+B is doing the same or slightly less damage than 2h/dw, its that its doing that damage while also giving the vastly superior defense.
In the history of the game, this same thing happened before, and it got nerfed because being able to high damage while being tanky was considered OP. MagDK was nerfed into the ground, because they had MASSIVE damage while being almost unkillable.... sound like certain builds we see today?
I don't pvp a ton, but I have yet to encounter these crazy tank builds that kill everything using sword and board.
Now I don't know all of these players. I just looked up stam dk videos and picked some out by random. What do they all have in common? They all use SnB as their primary spammable
I mean, I could go on for days. Just tonight I saw several of these builds (on dks and stam sorcs) taking on groups of people at a resource. They are quite literally everywhere.
You still doing this clown stuff lol? Spartacus007 and Itsalob are two of the top stam dks on ps4 and xb1 respectively and would do that without 1h/s which they have showcased many times. If you are average at this game it's not hard to get clips killing 3-8ppl when the right conditions are met. During midyear mayhem a person can get a 1v7clip on a bow/bow hybrid build if they run into the right group. My point is that you're mistaking a skill being over-tuned with your lack of skill. From your first posts when you were talking about "snb macro lords" it was apparent this is l2p.
Yes, it can be done without S&B, but you don't gain much by doing so. While you gain significant defensive capabilities from running S&B. So why run a more offensive setup when you can deal damage at relatively similar levels from a defensive setup?
You all are so all over the place you can't even agree what you're mad about. Is it the defensive capabilities equipping a shield offers(which many people do and don't slot one 1h skill), the damage of heroic slash(by itself doesn't provide enough burst only formidable when weaving light attack, heroic, bash, which is a huge stamina drain) or the snare maim and minor heroism (which pve tanks benefit from)? Which component are you all mad about lol? You all don't even have a consensus as to what you're arguing against which shows this is just a salt post.
Edited by Ayastigi on March 21, 2019 9:03PM1 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Then you're completely blind.Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Again. There is 0 reason to nerf heroic slash. If anything, the way light attacks and bash can be weaved in the same global should be looked at.
There is zero point in complaining about one ability that can just be replaced by any other ability to accomplish the same results.
Also, dual wield and 2H are both strong in pvp, so why can't s/b be strong? Making s/b literally only good for pve tanking would be a horrible design and balance decision.
The Problem isn't that S+B is doing the same or slightly less damage than 2h/dw, its that its doing that damage while also giving the vastly superior defense.
In the history of the game, this same thing happened before, and it got nerfed because being able to high damage while being tanky was considered OP. MagDK was nerfed into the ground, because they had MASSIVE damage while being almost unkillable.... sound like certain builds we see today?
I don't pvp a ton, but I have yet to encounter these crazy tank builds that kill everything using sword and board.
Now I don't know all of these players. I just looked up stam dk videos and picked some out by random. What do they all have in common? They all use SnB as their primary spammable
I mean, I could go on for days. Just tonight I saw several of these builds (on dks and stam sorcs) taking on groups of people at a resource. They are quite literally everywhere.
SnB is main bar because stam dk n Sorc doesn’t have a spammable 2h is crap and so is dual wield SnB also gives survivability against armor pen stacking gankblades.Edited by Anti_Virus on March 21, 2019 9:17PMPower Wealth And Influence.0 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »
Then you're completely blind.Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Again. There is 0 reason to nerf heroic slash. If anything, the way light attacks and bash can be weaved in the same global should be looked at.
There is zero point in complaining about one ability that can just be replaced by any other ability to accomplish the same results.
Also, dual wield and 2H are both strong in pvp, so why can't s/b be strong? Making s/b literally only good for pve tanking would be a horrible design and balance decision.
The Problem isn't that S+B is doing the same or slightly less damage than 2h/dw, its that its doing that damage while also giving the vastly superior defense.
In the history of the game, this same thing happened before, and it got nerfed because being able to high damage while being tanky was considered OP. MagDK was nerfed into the ground, because they had MASSIVE damage while being almost unkillable.... sound like certain builds we see today?
I don't pvp a ton, but I have yet to encounter these crazy tank builds that kill everything using sword and board.
Now I don't know all of these players. I just looked up stam dk videos and picked some out by random. What do they all have in common? They all use SnB as their primary spammable
I mean, I could go on for days. Just tonight I saw several of these builds (on dks and stam sorcs) taking on groups of people at a resource. They are quite literally everywhere.
You still doing this clown stuff lol? Spartacus007 and Itsalob are two of the top stam dks on ps4 and xb1 respectively and would do that without 1h/s which they have showcased many times. If you are average at this game it's not hard to get clips killing 3-8ppl when the right conditions are met. During midyear mayhem a person can get a 1v7clip on a bow/bow hybrid build if they run into the right group. My point is that you're mistaking a skill being over-tuned with your lack of skill. From your first posts when you were talking about "snb macro lords" it was apparent this is l2p.
Yes, it can be done without S&B, but you don't gain much by doing so. While you gain significant defensive capabilities from running S&B. So why run a more offensive setup when you can deal damage at relatively similar levels from a defensive setup?
You all are so all over the place you can't even agree what you're mad about. Is it the defensive capabilities equipping a shield offers(which many people do and don't slot one 1h skill), the damage of heroic slash(by itself doesn't provide enough burst only formidable when weaving light attack, heroic, bash, which is a huge stamina drain) or the snare maim and minor heroism (which pve tanks benefit from)? Which component are you all mad about lol? You all don't even have a consensus as to what you're arguing against which shows this is just a salt post.
Or perhaps it just shows that different people have different views and opinions. That game balance might be more complex than X is too strong delete X...... Woah!!!! I know mind blowing.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
Ayastigi✭✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »
Then you're completely blind.Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Again. There is 0 reason to nerf heroic slash. If anything, the way light attacks and bash can be weaved in the same global should be looked at.
There is zero point in complaining about one ability that can just be replaced by any other ability to accomplish the same results.
Also, dual wield and 2H are both strong in pvp, so why can't s/b be strong? Making s/b literally only good for pve tanking would be a horrible design and balance decision.
The Problem isn't that S+B is doing the same or slightly less damage than 2h/dw, its that its doing that damage while also giving the vastly superior defense.
In the history of the game, this same thing happened before, and it got nerfed because being able to high damage while being tanky was considered OP. MagDK was nerfed into the ground, because they had MASSIVE damage while being almost unkillable.... sound like certain builds we see today?
I don't pvp a ton, but I have yet to encounter these crazy tank builds that kill everything using sword and board.
Now I don't know all of these players. I just looked up stam dk videos and picked some out by random. What do they all have in common? They all use SnB as their primary spammable
I mean, I could go on for days. Just tonight I saw several of these builds (on dks and stam sorcs) taking on groups of people at a resource. They are quite literally everywhere.
You still doing this clown stuff lol? Spartacus007 and Itsalob are two of the top stam dks on ps4 and xb1 respectively and would do that without 1h/s which they have showcased many times. If you are average at this game it's not hard to get clips killing 3-8ppl when the right conditions are met. During midyear mayhem a person can get a 1v7clip on a bow/bow hybrid build if they run into the right group. My point is that you're mistaking a skill being over-tuned with your lack of skill. From your first posts when you were talking about "snb macro lords" it was apparent this is l2p.
Yes, it can be done without S&B, but you don't gain much by doing so. While you gain significant defensive capabilities from running S&B. So why run a more offensive setup when you can deal damage at relatively similar levels from a defensive setup?
You all are so all over the place you can't even agree what you're mad about. Is it the defensive capabilities equipping a shield offers(which many people do and don't slot one 1h skill), the damage of heroic slash(by itself doesn't provide enough burst only formidable when weaving light attack, heroic, bash, which is a huge stamina drain) or the snare maim and minor heroism (which pve tanks benefit from)? Which component are you all mad about lol? You all don't even have a consensus as to what you're arguing against which shows this is just a salt post.
Or perhaps it just shows that different people have different views and opinions. That game balance might be more complex than X is too strong delete X...... Woah!!!! I know mind blowing.
Not really on topic seeing as op started out saying this skill hit too hard and when that was countered he said the buffs/debuffs were over-tuned and then you came in said you receive significant defensive capabilities from running 1h/s which while you do receive defense it isn't unique to 1h/s as protective jewels or nord passives offer the same defense. So you, just like the other guy say something snarky like " woah!!! mind blowing i know" after realizing that you've been defending a salt post this whole time lol.0 -
joseayalac✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just no please, it's a sword, it's supossed to cut you and kill you.
Medium armor has more mobility, can achieve much more weapon damage, and is for another playstyle.
From lore perspective: who says a heavily armored knight equiped with sharp steel shouldn't be able to deal damage? He should freaking wreck those rogues and archers if he gets to catch them.
From gameplay perspective: if he already debuffed you with major fracture, and you stay there standing and getting pounded by low slash, expect to be dead, they are skills with limited range already.1 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »
Then you're completely blind.Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Again. There is 0 reason to nerf heroic slash. If anything, the way light attacks and bash can be weaved in the same global should be looked at.
There is zero point in complaining about one ability that can just be replaced by any other ability to accomplish the same results.
Also, dual wield and 2H are both strong in pvp, so why can't s/b be strong? Making s/b literally only good for pve tanking would be a horrible design and balance decision.
The Problem isn't that S+B is doing the same or slightly less damage than 2h/dw, its that its doing that damage while also giving the vastly superior defense.
In the history of the game, this same thing happened before, and it got nerfed because being able to high damage while being tanky was considered OP. MagDK was nerfed into the ground, because they had MASSIVE damage while being almost unkillable.... sound like certain builds we see today?
I don't pvp a ton, but I have yet to encounter these crazy tank builds that kill everything using sword and board.
Now I don't know all of these players. I just looked up stam dk videos and picked some out by random. What do they all have in common? They all use SnB as their primary spammable
I mean, I could go on for days. Just tonight I saw several of these builds (on dks and stam sorcs) taking on groups of people at a resource. They are quite literally everywhere.
You still doing this clown stuff lol? Spartacus007 and Itsalob are two of the top stam dks on ps4 and xb1 respectively and would do that without 1h/s which they have showcased many times. If you are average at this game it's not hard to get clips killing 3-8ppl when the right conditions are met. During midyear mayhem a person can get a 1v7clip on a bow/bow hybrid build if they run into the right group. My point is that you're mistaking a skill being over-tuned with your lack of skill. From your first posts when you were talking about "snb macro lords" it was apparent this is l2p.
Yes, it can be done without S&B, but you don't gain much by doing so. While you gain significant defensive capabilities from running S&B. So why run a more offensive setup when you can deal damage at relatively similar levels from a defensive setup?
You all are so all over the place you can't even agree what you're mad about. Is it the defensive capabilities equipping a shield offers(which many people do and don't slot one 1h skill), the damage of heroic slash(by itself doesn't provide enough burst only formidable when weaving light attack, heroic, bash, which is a huge stamina drain) or the snare maim and minor heroism (which pve tanks benefit from)? Which component are you all mad about lol? You all don't even have a consensus as to what you're arguing against which shows this is just a salt post.
Or perhaps it just shows that different people have different views and opinions. That game balance might be more complex than X is too strong delete X...... Woah!!!! I know mind blowing.
Not really on topic seeing as op started out saying this skill hit too hard and when that was countered he said the buffs/debuffs were over-tuned and then you came in said you receive significant defensive capabilities from running 1h/s which while you do receive defense it isn't unique to 1h/s as protective jewels or nord passives offer the same defense. So you, just like the other guy say something snarky like " woah!!! mind blowing i know" after realizing that you've been defending a salt post this whole time lol.
Protective jewelry is not comparable to S&B. Please think of a better argument than that.
Block is one of the games primary mitigation mechanics that drastically neuters damage. In the world of PVP where ground placed AOE's are expensive, unreliable to cast, and easily avoided block has few effective counters. A well timed block is far more effective versus a variety of attacks than a well timed dodge.
While block, if taking 4 attacks per second, is more expensive than dodge, it has no stacking cost increase meaning it scales significantly better if built to sustain past the initial cost wall. Dodge scales infinitely per projectile cast within its window, but stacking cost increases make it much more punishing on resources as the number of attacks stagger beyond the initial dodge window. CC's from Dragon Leap, Meteor, DBOS, and a variety of sets are can be blocked but not dodged, high spike damage AOE's like Shalks and Steel Tornado(at <25% health) can be blocked but not dodged. The effects that bypass block are not spike damage effects and must be layered many times over to eat away at someone blocking, the same is not true of the effects that bypass dodge.
Taking this into consideration, nothing improves block as well as S&B not even Ice Staff has comparable passives.
36% cost reduction. (comparable to Ice staff)
20% increase in damage blocked. (comparable to Ice staff)
14% increase in damage blocked to ranged attacks and projectiles. (no comparison)
60% increase to speed while blocking.(no comparison)
And possibly the cheapest and close to if not strongest defensive ultimate.
There is no weapon to boost dodge equivalently to how S&B boosts block. Bow offers a short speed boost, this neither improves the cost nor increases the effect of dodge. Ice staff gets half the passives of S&B for block and no defensive ultimate.
There is a reason people claim NB's and Sorc's are not playing competitively at the top level. A big part of that is because both rely on large single target spike damage from a few sources which both include projectiles. Those spikes are completely neutered by block.
Given that one can get similar if not equal levels of damage output with 1 bar S&B, there is nothing that more greatly increases ones survival in PVP than running S&B on at least one bar. It greatly improves the effect and reduces the cost of block while doing little to diminish the power of the person blocking. This is why so many elite players have defaulted to running it on at least one bar. Obviously not every build works to completely harness the power of block, but there are plenty that do.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm not sure what you're getting at here...What skill are you comparing it to?
Dizzying Swing? Which has a stun technically and does more damage and applies whatever passive you have depending on the weapon.
Maybe Steel Tornado? Which does more damage since it bloody hits through dodge and is AOE and has a massive radius?
Maybe you wanna compare it to some Class abilities...how about Jabs, which is aoe, cone based and does more damage and procs a nuke and provides crit...
Surprise Attack? Does more damage, can use with a weapon, applies the fracture...
What i'm getting is..you say it does a lot of damage, But pretty much every other spammable out there does more damage...Hell even in the own S&B line itself if you don't have a Fracture Debuff (Stam Sorcs) you're probably better off going Puncture which is slightly less damage and less cost. The only two classes who really get a benefit out of using Heroic Slash is Stam DK and Stam Warden.
And what I'm getting at is, not every spammable DD skill is instant cast and offers the benefits that heroic does. A majority of the time a SnB build will destroy someone spamming dizzying swing because they can literally walk through it. They'll also have a higher ultimate uptime, and reduce their damage taken by 15% - not to mention the extra mitigation they get just from having a shield.
As for steel tornado. Sure spam that all you like while I'm full health, but you'll just deplete your resources and do literally no damage to me, especially with my 100% uptime on minor maim thanks to heroic.
The only spammable thats not instant cast is dizzying swing, and it’s got a bloody stun attached to it and does way more damage then heroic.
Higher ult time also means nothing if you die in a burst attack.
As for steel tornado, you’re not taking into account that it’s not just steel tornado you’re eating, you’re eating two bleeds as well that ignore your armor.
You’re basically one well time dawnbreaker from eating dirt in both cases.
Also did you really link a bunch of stam dk videos and say “look they all use s&b”. Like you picked the one class that absolutely has to run sword and shield because the other setups just don’t work for them.
Ask yourself this.. if sword and shield was so amazing with heroic, how come you don’t see any stamblades, stamplars running it... how come every stam sorc and stamden aren’t running it either.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos2 -
Skullstachio✭✭✭✭✭What could be done about SnB is this. Remove the 5% Weapon damage from "Sword & Board" (not the amount of damage you can block by 20%) and instead replace the 5% weapon damage with a 100% enchantment potency buff.- Sword and Board I: (WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED) Increases your Weapon Enchantment Potency by 50% and the amount of damage you can block by 10%.
- Sword and Board II: (WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED) Increases your Weapon Enchantment Potency by 100% and the amount of damage you can block by 20%.
(I speak, of course, about the post-Wrathstone 50% enchantment potency reduction on all one handed weapons.)Edited by Skullstachio on March 22, 2019 12:51AMIf you see me anywhere. Know that I am sitting back with a bag of popcorn, watching as ESO burns the goodwill of its player base with practices that only disrespects the players time like it did to me and many others...
If a game does not respect your time, best thing to do is move on from it and find something else.1 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You have to sacrifice damage from jewelry glyphs or critical resistance from armor traits in order to make your block cost lower. If you don't make that sacrifice it costs a lot to use. Bash weaving also drains stamina, which means you are gearing for more sustain which means even less damage.
As it has already been shown, sword and board attacks already deal less damage than other skill lines, so what do you want? Nerfs to block mitigation? How would that effect pve...1 -
Ayastigi✭✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »
Then you're completely blind.Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Again. There is 0 reason to nerf heroic slash. If anything, the way light attacks and bash can be weaved in the same global should be looked at.
There is zero point in complaining about one ability that can just be replaced by any other ability to accomplish the same results.
Also, dual wield and 2H are both strong in pvp, so why can't s/b be strong? Making s/b literally only good for pve tanking would be a horrible design and balance decision.
The Problem isn't that S+B is doing the same or slightly less damage than 2h/dw, its that its doing that damage while also giving the vastly superior defense.
In the history of the game, this same thing happened before, and it got nerfed because being able to high damage while being tanky was considered OP. MagDK was nerfed into the ground, because they had MASSIVE damage while being almost unkillable.... sound like certain builds we see today?
I don't pvp a ton, but I have yet to encounter these crazy tank builds that kill everything using sword and board.
Now I don't know all of these players. I just looked up stam dk videos and picked some out by random. What do they all have in common? They all use SnB as their primary spammable
I mean, I could go on for days. Just tonight I saw several of these builds (on dks and stam sorcs) taking on groups of people at a resource. They are quite literally everywhere.
You still doing this clown stuff lol? Spartacus007 and Itsalob are two of the top stam dks on ps4 and xb1 respectively and would do that without 1h/s which they have showcased many times. If you are average at this game it's not hard to get clips killing 3-8ppl when the right conditions are met. During midyear mayhem a person can get a 1v7clip on a bow/bow hybrid build if they run into the right group. My point is that you're mistaking a skill being over-tuned with your lack of skill. From your first posts when you were talking about "snb macro lords" it was apparent this is l2p.
Yes, it can be done without S&B, but you don't gain much by doing so. While you gain significant defensive capabilities from running S&B. So why run a more offensive setup when you can deal damage at relatively similar levels from a defensive setup?
You all are so all over the place you can't even agree what you're mad about. Is it the defensive capabilities equipping a shield offers(which many people do and don't slot one 1h skill), the damage of heroic slash(by itself doesn't provide enough burst only formidable when weaving light attack, heroic, bash, which is a huge stamina drain) or the snare maim and minor heroism (which pve tanks benefit from)? Which component are you all mad about lol? You all don't even have a consensus as to what you're arguing against which shows this is just a salt post.
Or perhaps it just shows that different people have different views and opinions. That game balance might be more complex than X is too strong delete X...... Woah!!!! I know mind blowing.
Not really on topic seeing as op started out saying this skill hit too hard and when that was countered he said the buffs/debuffs were over-tuned and then you came in said you receive significant defensive capabilities from running 1h/s which while you do receive defense it isn't unique to 1h/s as protective jewels or nord passives offer the same defense. So you, just like the other guy say something snarky like " woah!!! mind blowing i know" after realizing that you've been defending a salt post this whole time lol.
Protective jewelry is not comparable to S&B. Please think of a better argument than that.
Block is one of the games primary mitigation mechanics that drastically neuters damage. In the world of PVP where ground placed AOE's are expensive, unreliable to cast, and easily avoided block has few effective counters. A well timed block is far more effective versus a variety of attacks than a well timed dodge.
While block, if taking 4 attacks per second, is more expensive than dodge, it has no stacking cost increase meaning it scales significantly better if built to sustain past the initial cost wall. Dodge scales infinitely per projectile cast within its window, but stacking cost increases make it much more punishing on resources as the number of attacks stagger beyond the initial dodge window. CC's from Dragon Leap, Meteor, DBOS, and a variety of sets are can be blocked but not dodged, high spike damage AOE's like Shalks and Steel Tornado(at <25% health) can be blocked but not dodged. The effects that bypass block are not spike damage effects and must be layered many times over to eat away at someone blocking, the same is not true of the effects that bypass dodge.
Taking this into consideration, nothing improves block as well as S&B not even Ice Staff has comparable passives.
36% cost reduction. (comparable to Ice staff)
20% increase in damage blocked. (comparable to Ice staff)
14% increase in damage blocked to ranged attacks and projectiles. (no comparison)
60% increase to speed while blocking.(no comparison)
And possibly the cheapest and close to if not strongest defensive ultimate.
There is no weapon to boost dodge equivalently to how S&B boosts block. Bow offers a short speed boost, this neither improves the cost nor increases the effect of dodge. Ice staff gets half the passives of S&B for block and no defensive ultimate.
There is a reason people claim NB's and Sorc's are not playing competitively at the top level. A big part of that is because both rely on large single target spike damage from a few sources which both include projectiles. Those spikes are completely neutered by block.
Given that one can get similar if not equal levels of damage output with 1 bar S&B, there is nothing that more greatly increases ones survival in PVP than running S&B on at least one bar. It greatly improves the effect and reduces the cost of block while doing little to diminish the power of the person blocking. This is why so many elite players have defaulted to running it on at least one bar. Obviously not every build works to completely harness the power of block, but there are plenty that do.
You're making my point for me. You have no idea what you are mad about. This thread was directed at heroic slash if we follow what op was saying. Now you're talking about block when I was bringing up resistances which as it stands 1hs still gives you same defense as 2 protective or nord passives. When we bring block into the equation then we have to talk about dk passives, imperial passives, shield play enchantments because blocking using s/b is not equal among the classes or races and it shouldn't be as each race/class has a competitive advantage over others in certain areas. You didn't like what I was saying to op about this being a salt post which it is so you came around and tried to defend him the only thing is he isn't talking about block he's talking about heroic slash lmaooo. Good try next.
Edited by Ayastigi on March 22, 2019 1:25PM1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv1M6ynHqTQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5lvh4AwQy0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ybfs8eOm7oI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVgr-2720Wg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WROr77WZO5A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQNnWOJvfLg
