Why not make Skyshards and Mages Books account bound.

HappyLittleTree · March 2019

You know what i would like? Even tho' i have no problem with farming them on my other chars:

Maybe add a special furnishing Shalidors Library or something after you've collected every Mages Book in the game so you have just get to this one and click it to get the books on a alt

LioraValkyrie · March 2019

I would pay 5k crowns for a levelled psijic order skill line without thinking twice. I've grinded it 3 times already, and it was boring every time in my opinion. I click through the dialogue as quickly as possible and rapid manoeuvre from place to place as directed by an addon for roughly 5-6 hours. The worst part is, it's mostly just sitting through load screens.

The need to grind stuff like psijic, skyshards and lorebooks is what keeps me from playing my alts more and thus getting more attached to them, and so wanting more pretty crown store outfits and mounts for them. So it's a win/win for ZoS and the players to give us the option to buy this stuff.

The only possible downside is that some self-righteous people will whine that it is 'lazy' or 'they should have to suffer through it because I had to suffer through it'. But I've got to ask, who wouldn't gladly pay (assuming you can afford it) to avoid content that you have already done before, and feels like work, so that you can get onto content that feels like having a good time?

They could even make it lore-friendly by calling the crown store items something like 'Psijic Expedition' and suggesting in the flavour text that your character who has already done the grind has been hired as a guide for the new character- totally legit!

Jayroo · March 2019

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Sure, it also raises the question, "I've leveled weapon skills on other characters already, why aren't those account bound, too?" Where do we draw the line? When leveling an alt, what should transfer from the main character? Got collectibles and champion points already. Seems like a bit of a slippery slope, but eventually people will argue that character levels should be account bound, too.

I think doing that would eliminate a lot of the long term, and more meaningful, progression from leveling alts. It would also make main characters far less meaningful.

That being said, you shouldn't be starving for skill points on your alts just by hitting max level and using what you get during the leveling process. You should have more than enough at max level for a fully functioning build that will work for the majority of the endgame content.

Farming skill points is really only a priority for crafters who want to max out all professions for daily writs and guild trader sales. That directly impacts our ability to make money, though. You get something like 5k gold for doing all 6 crafting writs each day. On 8 characters that just appeared out of nowhere with account bound skills points, that would be about 30k-40k gold per player, per day. Talk about destroying the in game economy... probably best to have players grind for that kind of economic advantage.

Lengthy response, but there's a few reasons to not make skill lines and skill points account bound.

Draw the line at mage books. period. It really doesn't have to be complicated. Books are harder to find on console, and it's hard to argue against not having lore-books account bound
"I loved wasting 20 hours my time *not playing the game as intended* but instead getting mages to 10 on 4 characters"
nonsense.
You're making it more complicated than it needs to be.

Beardimus · March 2019

I've always said no to this. Jumping straight to end game Mag skill line doesn't sit right, and what else are you going to shortcut... Slippery slope.

That said i have very little play time now, and need them on a couple toons. At times i bend, but for the greater good i think it's better left. Just wish meteor was stronger to make it worth it as really its a disappointment.

I'm leaning towards the new zone finder highlighting then as ok. Still effort to get them but at least it saves you looking up on an app or phone. And PC all have an add on anyway.

Effort is healthy but its about balance

srfrogg23 · March 2019

Vapirko wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Sure, it also raises the question, "I've leveled weapon skills on other characters already, why aren't those account bound, too?" Where do we draw the line? When leveling an alt, what should transfer from the main character? Got collectibles and champion points already. Seems like a bit of a slippery slope, but eventually people will argue that character levels should be account bound, too.

I think doing that would eliminate a lot of the long term, and more meaningful, progression from leveling alts. It would also make main characters far less meaningful.

That being said, you shouldn't be starving for skill points on your alts just by hitting max level and using what you get during the leveling process. You should have more than enough at max level for a fully functioning build that will work for the majority of the endgame content.

Farming skill points is really only a priority for crafters who want to max out all professions for daily writs and guild trader sales. That directly impacts our ability to make money, though. You get something like 5k gold for doing all 6 crafting writs each day. On 8 characters that just appeared out of nowhere with account bound skills points, that would be about 30k-40k gold per player, per day. Talk about destroying the in game economy... probably best to have players grind for that kind of economic advantage.

Lengthy response, but there's a few reasons to not make skill lines and skill points account bound.

We draw the line at things that are universal like mages books and skyshards and maybe mount upgrades. It’s not rocket science. There’s enough other grinds in this game at this point what with psijic line being introduced which is pretty much mandatory for most mag and stam builds in PvP and PvE.

Except those things aren't universal. Nothing says they have to be universal either. Just because I spent an absurd amount of time farming close to 400 skyshards and rank 10 of the mages guild (which I have done) on my main doesn't automatically mean that all of my other characters have that knowledge. Calling lorebooks and skyshards "universal" is arbitrary.

There's nothing to separate them from any other progression mechanism outside of you just not wanting to do it on multiple characters. To which, I have good news for you: it's not required and you are free to not do it because it won't gimp you as much as you would like to believe. It really won't.

I think having collectibles and champion points work on all characters is quite enough to be honest.

srfrogg23 · March 2019

Jayroo wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Sure, it also raises the question, "I've leveled weapon skills on other characters already, why aren't those account bound, too?" Where do we draw the line? When leveling an alt, what should transfer from the main character? Got collectibles and champion points already. Seems like a bit of a slippery slope, but eventually people will argue that character levels should be account bound, too.

I think doing that would eliminate a lot of the long term, and more meaningful, progression from leveling alts. It would also make main characters far less meaningful.

That being said, you shouldn't be starving for skill points on your alts just by hitting max level and using what you get during the leveling process. You should have more than enough at max level for a fully functioning build that will work for the majority of the endgame content.

Farming skill points is really only a priority for crafters who want to max out all professions for daily writs and guild trader sales. That directly impacts our ability to make money, though. You get something like 5k gold for doing all 6 crafting writs each day. On 8 characters that just appeared out of nowhere with account bound skills points, that would be about 30k-40k gold per player, per day. Talk about destroying the in game economy... probably best to have players grind for that kind of economic advantage.

Lengthy response, but there's a few reasons to not make skill lines and skill points account bound.

Draw the line at mage books. period. It really doesn't have to be complicated. Books are harder to find on console, and it's hard to argue against not having lore-books account bound
"I loved wasting 20 hours my time *not playing the game as intended* but instead getting mages to 10 on 4 characters"
nonsense.
You're making it more complicated than it needs to be.

See, now the other guy said shards AND books. Maybe you two should agree on what you want and then put together an argument.

Edziu · March 2019

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Except those things aren't universal. Nothing says they have to be universal either. Just because I spent an absurd amount of time farming close to 400 skyshards and rank 10 of the mages guild (which I have done) on my main doesn't automatically mean that all of my other characters have that knowledge.

so you wouldnt have problem to make also cp character bound yes? as whiel you play on different characters every of them have earned differeent amount of cp and probably even noone alone of them have earned cap cp but even if it would be single char on which you play the most like main, rest would have realy low cp and as I asked you would be fine with it yes?

Edziu · March 2019

kargen27 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

nud3_voxel wrote: »

Because it keeps the grind going and people have to spend more time playing. I think more people grind than people quit because of it.

this grind just keep me to not play more than one character
so playing only one character keep me to do maybe only single few daily quests like pledges and single time weekly quest for trials instead of doing it on more than single character to keep me longer in this game

kargen27 wrote: »

My opinion is if it feels like a grind quit doing it. I think the real problem is a lack of patience. Players want their characters end game ready almost as soon as they create them. Take your time.

how about not every have their time for this? we have patience but even patience have its border lines especially when you have limited time

so as you are defending it maybe you would have no problem to grind it for me as I have no time for this or I prefer to do more constructive things than mindless running like headless chicken, I would even pay you in gold for takin your time for this!
how about 100 gold per skyshard? as this isnt really anything special to collect this so price is not high and as some say this doesnt need to take long tim to collect many shards...so price also dont need to be high

please anyone who like collecting these shards consider my offer, I realy dont have time for thing like this but you have as we can see and also you like it...so why not you make also some gold for doing this for others who dont have time/dont like it

"so as you are defending it maybe you would have no problem to grind it for me"

I don't grind for me. Was kind of my whole point. I do have 15 characters all maxed out. I need to get gear for a couple of them still but that will happen just through playing the game.

I really wouldn't care if those things were account wide other than it in the long run is not healthy for the game. Repeated content is what makes MMO's survive. So knowing account wide isn't going to be a thing any time soon we have two choices. Grind to get to the end in a hurry or simply enjoy the game and get there eventually. I don't mind taking my time. My last few DPS characters I hunted skyshards and lore books while waiting for random normal runs.

and I have in overall 10 character, 1 mian which I have abandoned because bored of playing over 3 years only this class, retired achievements hunter and 2nd char which after many week I get to playable state...but have in ass achievements now, dont care about them anymore so I dont play this game that often like I was playing on my main

and I have got 8 other chars, every of them leveled to 50lvl and thats all, noone from them ahve enough "GIRNDED" *** to be at playable state, the best I could do was respecced hardly visible amount of skillpoints into everything into craft for hielings

what is the best I have also tons of gear for different setups, roles etc mainly because I have gotten those parts in good or perfect traits or are jsut very rare parts so that would be sad like just destroying BWS inferno staff...and yet no other char besides these 2 even could be in playable state when leveled every skilline, guild etc as jsut not enough skillpoints so these chars are just as magaziners and getting dusty while not keeping me more time in this game even when I have time for this

This is where we differ and probably why we find ourselves on opposite sides of the issue. I see my characters as playable as soon as I hit that create character button. It takes very little time or effort to be ready for random normal dungeons. Now that low level characters can't get the DLCs really no reason not to jump in a random with low level characters.

yeah I can agree some with you about need a little time/effort to be ready for random normal etc and low lvl char cant a get to dlc

but then I level character to 50lvl, I know his skills etc and how this character (class) work and even have ready build for this and have over 1.1k cp so in overall I have big knowledge about game and then I cant do any vet dlc dung with this char
all I can do is max vet basic content dung and even here I would be very handicapped on this char in compare to other experienced player while completing just basic content vet dung (have knowledge, mind what how work etc but with missing many things(skillpoints mainly) to be able to complete it on competetive level at all)

Jayroo · March 2019

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Jayroo wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Sure, it also raises the question, "I've leveled weapon skills on other characters already, why aren't those account bound, too?" Where do we draw the line? When leveling an alt, what should transfer from the main character? Got collectibles and champion points already. Seems like a bit of a slippery slope, but eventually people will argue that character levels should be account bound, too.

I think doing that would eliminate a lot of the long term, and more meaningful, progression from leveling alts. It would also make main characters far less meaningful.

That being said, you shouldn't be starving for skill points on your alts just by hitting max level and using what you get during the leveling process. You should have more than enough at max level for a fully functioning build that will work for the majority of the endgame content.

Farming skill points is really only a priority for crafters who want to max out all professions for daily writs and guild trader sales. That directly impacts our ability to make money, though. You get something like 5k gold for doing all 6 crafting writs each day. On 8 characters that just appeared out of nowhere with account bound skills points, that would be about 30k-40k gold per player, per day. Talk about destroying the in game economy... probably best to have players grind for that kind of economic advantage.

Lengthy response, but there's a few reasons to not make skill lines and skill points account bound.

Draw the line at mage books. period. It really doesn't have to be complicated. Books are harder to find on console, and it's hard to argue against not having lore-books account bound
"I loved wasting 20 hours my time *not playing the game as intended* but instead getting mages to 10 on 4 characters"
nonsense.
You're making it more complicated than it needs to be.

See, now the other guy said shards AND books. Maybe you two should agree on what you want and then put together an argument.

There is no argument to be had. Anyone who doesn't understand has been playing korean grinders too long or lack common sense. Everything else is easily obtained through natural progression/ around an hour... POINT BLANK.

but I'll explain why skyshards shouldn't be account-bound for people who don't like to think for longer than 45 seconds

Skyshards is always placed in a spot that is easily seen from far away. Books however are HIDDEN as its part of the quest line to SEEK them out unlike skyshards that they shove into your face.
~~
EDIT:honestly they just need to overhaul the mages guild all together. It's lazily done anyways.

r34lian · March 2019

I don't agree with mages guild or psijic being account bound but skyshards should be ACCOUNT bound not character bound it's function in game is just like cp so it should be shared!! Make it something like this that once a character reaches level 50 it'll get all the shared skill points or whatever but it should be account bound.

Androconium · March 2019

SNSquietxXSTORM wrote: »

Why hasn't this been put into the game? Specially for console players that don't have mods to show them. It makes so much sense leaving you focusing on questing and leveling for the End Game. It makes you not want to create other characters. Make it simpler guys just my thoughts.

It hasn't been put into the game, because it makes no sense.

Please stop asking for this

MikaHR · March 2019

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Sure, it also raises the question, "I've leveled weapon skills on other characters already, why aren't those account bound, too?" Where do we draw the line? When leveling an alt, what should transfer from the main character? Got collectibles and champion points already. Seems like a bit of a slippery slope, but eventually people will argue that character levels should be account bound, too.

I think doing that would eliminate a lot of the long term, and more meaningful, progression from leveling alts. It would also make main characters far less meaningful.

That being said, you shouldn't be starving for skill points on your alts just by hitting max level and using what you get during the leveling process. You should have more than enough at max level for a fully functioning build that will work for the majority of the endgame content.

Farming skill points is really only a priority for crafters who want to max out all professions for daily writs and guild trader sales. That directly impacts our ability to make money, though. You get something like 5k gold for doing all 6 crafting writs each day. On 8 characters that just appeared out of nowhere with account bound skills points, that would be about 30k-40k gold per player, per day. Talk about destroying the in game economy... probably best to have players grind for that kind of economic advantage.

Lengthy response, but there's a few reasons to not make skill lines and skill points account bound.

We draw the line at things that are universal like mages books and skyshards and maybe mount upgrades. It’s not rocket science. There’s enough other grinds in this game at this point what with psijic line being introduced which is pretty much mandatory for most mag and stam builds in PvP and PvE.

Except those things aren't universal. Nothing says they have to be universal either. Just because I spent an absurd amount of time farming close to 400 skyshards and rank 10 of the mages guild (which I have done) on my main doesn't automatically mean that all of my other characters have that knowledge. Calling lorebooks and skyshards "universal" is arbitrary.

There's nothing to separate them from any other progression mechanism outside of you just not wanting to do it on multiple characters. To which, I have good news for you: it's not required and you are free to not do it because it won't gimp you as much as you would like to believe. It really won't.

I think having collectibles and champion points work on all characters is quite enough to be honest.

And yet ZOS is giving out 100% XP events and XP scrolls left and right. Imagine THAT!!!!!!

Soul19reaper wrote: »

I don't agree with mages guild or psijic being account bound but skyshards should be ACCOUNT bound not character bound it's function in game is just like cp so it should be shared!! Make it something like this that once a character reaches level 50 it'll get all the shared skill points or whatever but it should be account bound.

People ask for this because outside first time you do it those dont offer ANY engaging gameplay (skyshards/lorebooks/psijic are same completely unegaging mechanic)

srfrogg23 · March 2019

Edziu wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Except those things aren't universal. Nothing says they have to be universal either. Just because I spent an absurd amount of time farming close to 400 skyshards and rank 10 of the mages guild (which I have done) on my main doesn't automatically mean that all of my other characters have that knowledge.

so you wouldnt have problem to make also cp character bound yes? as whiel you play on different characters every of them have earned differeent amount of cp and probably even noone alone of them have earned cap cp but even if it would be single char on which you play the most like main, rest would have realy low cp and as I asked you would be fine with it yes?

I like that CP is useable on every character. I would be upset if they changed that because I've become used to it. That does not open the door to every other progression mechanic being account-wide. CPs were designed from the ground up to be account wide. Skyshards and lorebooks were not.

There's no hypocrisy in that. I accept that it is the way it is. Besides, I'm not trying to claim there is some virtue in grinding for lorebooks and skyshards. I'm just saying that there's a balance of power in it and it would really throw off the longevity associated with leveling alts if the game goes down some slippery slope of making every grind that players view as inconvenient into an account bound achievement.

srfrogg23 · March 2019

MikaHR wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Sure, it also raises the question, "I've leveled weapon skills on other characters already, why aren't those account bound, too?" Where do we draw the line? When leveling an alt, what should transfer from the main character? Got collectibles and champion points already. Seems like a bit of a slippery slope, but eventually people will argue that character levels should be account bound, too.

I think doing that would eliminate a lot of the long term, and more meaningful, progression from leveling alts. It would also make main characters far less meaningful.

That being said, you shouldn't be starving for skill points on your alts just by hitting max level and using what you get during the leveling process. You should have more than enough at max level for a fully functioning build that will work for the majority of the endgame content.

Farming skill points is really only a priority for crafters who want to max out all professions for daily writs and guild trader sales. That directly impacts our ability to make money, though. You get something like 5k gold for doing all 6 crafting writs each day. On 8 characters that just appeared out of nowhere with account bound skills points, that would be about 30k-40k gold per player, per day. Talk about destroying the in game economy... probably best to have players grind for that kind of economic advantage.

Lengthy response, but there's a few reasons to not make skill lines and skill points account bound.

We draw the line at things that are universal like mages books and skyshards and maybe mount upgrades. It’s not rocket science. There’s enough other grinds in this game at this point what with psijic line being introduced which is pretty much mandatory for most mag and stam builds in PvP and PvE.

Except those things aren't universal. Nothing says they have to be universal either. Just because I spent an absurd amount of time farming close to 400 skyshards and rank 10 of the mages guild (which I have done) on my main doesn't automatically mean that all of my other characters have that knowledge. Calling lorebooks and skyshards "universal" is arbitrary.

There's nothing to separate them from any other progression mechanism outside of you just not wanting to do it on multiple characters. To which, I have good news for you: it's not required and you are free to not do it because it won't gimp you as much as you would like to believe. It really won't.

I think having collectibles and champion points work on all characters is quite enough to be honest.

And yet ZOS is giving out 100% XP events and XP scrolls left and right. Imagine THAT!!!!!!

Soul19reaper wrote: »

I don't agree with mages guild or psijic being account bound but skyshards should be ACCOUNT bound not character bound it's function in game is just like cp so it should be shared!! Make it something like this that once a character reaches level 50 it'll get all the shared skill points or whatever but it should be account bound.

People ask for this because outside first time you do it those dont offer ANY engaging gameplay (skyshards/lorebooks/psijic are same completely unegaging mechanic)

Yes, sweetheart, the sky is blue sometimes...

And, yes, occassionally Zos had promotional events to pique people's interest and break up the monotony.

Edziu · March 2019

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Except those things aren't universal. Nothing says they have to be universal either. Just because I spent an absurd amount of time farming close to 400 skyshards and rank 10 of the mages guild (which I have done) on my main doesn't automatically mean that all of my other characters have that knowledge.

so you wouldnt have problem to make also cp character bound yes? as whiel you play on different characters every of them have earned differeent amount of cp and probably even noone alone of them have earned cap cp but even if it would be single char on which you play the most like main, rest would have realy low cp and as I asked you would be fine with it yes?

I like that CP is useable on every character. I would be upset if they changed that because I've become used to it. That does not open the door to every other progression mechanic being account-wide. CPs were designed from the ground up to be account wide. Skyshards and lorebooks were not.

There's no hypocrisy in that. I accept that it is the way it is. Besides, I'm not trying to claim there is some virtue in grinding for lorebooks and skyshards. I'm just saying that there's a balance of power in it and it would really throw off the longevity associated with leveling alts if the game goes down some slippery slope of making every grind that players view as inconvenient into an account bound achievement.

but at some way there is hypocrisy
as cp are instead of veteran rank grind
and so it should mean to be unlocked only at ma x lvl character and there it is not, you can use it at 1st lvl character which is thing why more people asshurt against jsut skyshards accountwide as they think these also would be all unlocked at 1lvl char without even reading with understanding what people are explaining unfortunately (not saying about you now btw :P)

and about leveling alts..no, leveling is leveling, you level char to max level to use your endgame gear etc but you still need to grind skillines etc
things like shkyshards are worse atleast for me than grind character to max veteran rank like in old days

kind_hero · March 2019

Maybe having options would be better?

For example, if you gathered all the skyshards in a zone, or books, it would be great if you could craft or buy a collection for your alt. Like you craft a map/bag/crate that will be usable by your alt and enable those books/skyshards. The mages guild have book collections as furnishings. This could work for alts maybe?

For me skyshards are the most annoying to get. True, I use an addon for books, so it makes easier. I got all the skyshards in the base game, plus many from DLCs, I am missing probably 5 right now, so I would not like to do it all over again, especially for Cyrodiil skyshards.

srfrogg23 · March 2019

Edziu wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Except those things aren't universal. Nothing says they have to be universal either. Just because I spent an absurd amount of time farming close to 400 skyshards and rank 10 of the mages guild (which I have done) on my main doesn't automatically mean that all of my other characters have that knowledge.

so you wouldnt have problem to make also cp character bound yes? as whiel you play on different characters every of them have earned differeent amount of cp and probably even noone alone of them have earned cap cp but even if it would be single char on which you play the most like main, rest would have realy low cp and as I asked you would be fine with it yes?

I like that CP is useable on every character. I would be upset if they changed that because I've become used to it. That does not open the door to every other progression mechanic being account-wide. CPs were designed from the ground up to be account wide. Skyshards and lorebooks were not.

There's no hypocrisy in that. I accept that it is the way it is. Besides, I'm not trying to claim there is some virtue in grinding for lorebooks and skyshards. I'm just saying that there's a balance of power in it and it would really throw off the longevity associated with leveling alts if the game goes down some slippery slope of making every grind that players view as inconvenient into an account bound achievement.

but at some way there is hypocrisy
as cp are instead of veteran rank grind
and so it should mean to be unlocked only at ma x lvl character and there it is not, you can use it at 1st lvl character which is thing why more people asshurt against jsut skyshards accountwide as they think these also would be all unlocked at 1lvl char without even reading with understanding what people are explaining unfortunately (not saying about you now btw :P)

and about leveling alts..no, leveling is leveling, you level char to max level to use your endgame gear etc but you still need to grind skillines etc
things like shkyshards are worse atleast for me than grind character to max veteran rank like in old days

I really don't think so. I have maxed out all of the skill lines, except werewolf, on my main. That makes my main special. That includes the guild skill lines, crafting, weapons (yes, my main has done everything at some point in the last 5 years). I'm not inclined to believe it makes sense for every character I make to suddenly have all of that knowledge.

CPs offer some passive stat bonuses to make the leveling process a little quicker and max level characters a little more powerful as a reward for just playing the game at max level. The various skill lines actually change the flavor and functionality of the character. That makes them pretty different.

The skill lines that a character uses are indicative of the path that you took through the game as a player and gives each character it's own flair, personality functionality, etc. Just like the previous TES games. And just like the previous TES games, the characters all start to become more homogeneous as you get closer to maxing everything out.

The nice thing about leveling alts is the ability to relive the experience and make different choices along the way, at least to some extent. If we start off with all that stuff maxed out, then what's the point? Might as well play Overwatch instead.

Skwor · March 2019

Reginald, fetch me my beating stick.

Edziu · March 2019

@srfrogg23 with most skillines to level I have no problem, ok let it me but mainly I was meaning about skyshard to account wide

as when we crate charcter we have everything on 0 yes? so what is probem to have unlocked more skillpoints to use if we hit 50lvl on char? we would just be able to get rind of this nonsense running like headless chicken over map for just shard for single skillpoints while still need to level skillins to be able to use them

I have maxed every possibel skilline on my main, I have maxed everything which I was needed on my 1st alt, maxed or leveled atleast over half of needed skillines on other alts whiel leveling them but then on those alts I miss skillpoints for most skills
cant have unlocked all needed passives and active skills fro competetive playing even when I have it leveled in not that tedious way like we have just collecting skyshards/books

Fluke.Slywalker · March 2019

It wasn't designed to be a 'grind' I mean they didn't implement this so that you could 'spend 20 hours of your day' farming mages books.. You are meant to collect them as you go along with the game itself, the quests such.

It is us, as the users that create the 'grind' - it's a mentality, not an aspect of the game itself.

r34lian · March 2019

Fluke.Slywalker wrote: »

It wasn't designed to be a 'grind' I mean they didn't implement this so that you could 'spend 20 hours of your day' farming mages books.. You are meant to collect them as you go along with the game itself, the quests such.

It is us, as the users that create the 'grind' - it's a mentality, not an aspect of the game itself.

It is not but becomes when you have to do it again and again except for my main none of my mag toons have mage level more than 2 Cuz I want to play game not grind and these stuff come in between making a character effective idk how devs could come up with the dumbest idea

todokete · March 2019

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Fluke.Slywalker wrote: »

It wasn't designed to be a 'grind' I mean they didn't implement this so that you could 'spend 20 hours of your day' farming mages books.. You are meant to collect them as you go along with the game itself, the quests such.

It is us, as the users that create the 'grind' - it's a mentality, not an aspect of the game itself.

It is not but becomes when you have to do it again and again except for my main none of my mag toons have mage level more than 2 Cuz I want to play game not grind and these stuff come in between making a character effective idk how devs could come up with the dumbest idea

You don't have to collect ALL skyshards you know that, right?
You don't have to be a completionist. Just get enough to have your own build. All your characters don't need the same set of abilities

JediCody · March 2019

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Sure, it also raises the question, "I've leveled weapon skills on other characters already, why aren't those account bound, too?" Where do we draw the line? When leveling an alt, what should transfer from the main character? Got collectibles and champion points already. Seems like a bit of a slippery slope, but eventually people will argue that character levels should be account bound, too.

I think doing that would eliminate a lot of the long term, and more meaningful, progression from leveling alts. It would also make main characters far less meaningful.

That being said, you shouldn't be starving for skill points on your alts just by hitting max level and using what you get during the leveling process. You should have more than enough at max level for a fully functioning build that will work for the majority of the endgame content.

Farming skill points is really only a priority for crafters who want to max out all professions for daily writs and guild trader sales. That directly impacts our ability to make money, though. You get something like 5k gold for doing all 6 crafting writs each day. On 8 characters that just appeared out of nowhere with account bound skills points, that would be about 30k-40k gold per player, per day. Talk about destroying the in game economy... probably best to have players grind for that kind of economic advantage.

Lengthy response, but there's a few reasons to not make skill lines and skill points account bound.

Well put.

Fluke.Slywalker · March 2019

JediCody wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Sure, it also raises the question, "I've leveled weapon skills on other characters already, why aren't those account bound, too?" Where do we draw the line? When leveling an alt, what should transfer from the main character? Got collectibles and champion points already. Seems like a bit of a slippery slope, but eventually people will argue that character levels should be account bound, too.

I think doing that would eliminate a lot of the long term, and more meaningful, progression from leveling alts. It would also make main characters far less meaningful.

That being said, you shouldn't be starving for skill points on your alts just by hitting max level and using what you get during the leveling process. You should have more than enough at max level for a fully functioning build that will work for the majority of the endgame content.

Farming skill points is really only a priority for crafters who want to max out all professions for daily writs and guild trader sales. That directly impacts our ability to make money, though. You get something like 5k gold for doing all 6 crafting writs each day. On 8 characters that just appeared out of nowhere with account bound skills points, that would be about 30k-40k gold per player, per day. Talk about destroying the in game economy... probably best to have players grind for that kind of economic advantage.

Lengthy response, but there's a few reasons to not make skill lines and skill points account bound.

Well put.

^^ this is a great response quoted, can't find the original.

It's really sad, more and more of these posts arrive, people just ant things quicker an easier all the time, where does it stop.

Not just the OP but other threads of short cutting things similar to this, what about we the people who have farmed Mages guild and whatever else on 6 or 10 toons, for then a it all to be account wide, or for it to be 'on sale' in the crown store.

It has to be universal, a lot of people forget that it's MMO and they have to consider everyone when implementing these kind of things.

Kidgangster101 · March 2019

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Sure, it also raises the question, "I've leveled weapon skills on other characters already, why aren't those account bound, too?" Where do we draw the line? When leveling an alt, what should transfer from the main character? Got collectibles and champion points already. Seems like a bit of a slippery slope, but eventually people will argue that character levels should be account bound, too.

I think doing that would eliminate a lot of the long term, and more meaningful, progression from leveling alts. It would also make main characters far less meaningful.

That being said, you shouldn't be starving for skill points on your alts just by hitting max level and using what you get during the leveling process. You should have more than enough at max level for a fully functioning build that will work for the majority of the endgame content.

Farming skill points is really only a priority for crafters who want to max out all professions for daily writs and guild trader sales. That directly impacts our ability to make money, though. You get something like 5k gold for doing all 6 crafting writs each day. On 8 characters that just appeared out of nowhere with account bound skills points, that would be about 30k-40k gold per player, per day. Talk about destroying the in game economy... probably best to have players grind for that kind of economic advantage.

Lengthy response, but there's a few reasons to not make skill lines and skill points account bound.

We draw the line at things that are universal like mages books and skyshards and maybe mount upgrades. It’s not rocket science. There’s enough other grinds in this game at this point what with psijic line being introduced which is pretty much mandatory for most mag and stam builds in PvP and PvE.

Except those things aren't universal. Nothing says they have to be universal either. Just because I spent an absurd amount of time farming close to 400 skyshards and rank 10 of the mages guild (which I have done) on my main doesn't automatically mean that all of my other characters have that knowledge. Calling lorebooks and skyshards "universal" is arbitrary.

There's nothing to separate them from any other progression mechanism outside of you just not wanting to do it on multiple characters. To which, I have good news for you: it's not required and you are free to not do it because it won't gimp you as much as you would like to believe. It really won't.

I think having collectibles and champion points work on all characters is quite enough to be honest.

But what about the precipus 160 gear you got from cloudrest here. You "earned it" on one toon why should your other toon be able to wear it? CP is the same thing how is grinding skyreach to gain CP any different than grinding lorebooks and skyshards and psijic order? All those things there are boring. And yet some things are shared and some are not. Nothing would be game breaking if you got skyshards on an alt because those alts already have access to CP and crafted training gear sets as they level meaning the game is already easy lol. So let's stop saying stuff shouldn't be grinded over and over because getting to 810 on every one of your too small or having to specifically be on a toon to get a gear drop is identical to what people are asking here. You still need to level the skill lines to unlock moves and passives.

And don't tell me it is game breaking to get skill points at the start now you can literally get them before 15 and have them sitting there to spend if you put in the time. But guess what? Before on tamriel you couldn't do that. You had no access to zones outside of your starting faction. If you entered a vr16 zone as a vr5 guess what you died before getting the skyshards. Now the world scales with you but skyshards never addapted with this change along with lorebooks and psijic order.

MikaHR · March 2019

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Farming skill points is really only a priority for crafters who want to max out all professions for daily writs and guild trader sales. That directly impacts our ability to make money, though. You get something like 5k gold for doing all 6 crafting writs each day. On 8 characters that just appeared out of nowhere with account bound skills points, that would be about 30k-40k gold per player, per day. Talk about destroying the in game economy... probably best to have players grind for that kind of economic advantage.

What a bunch of poo from someone who doesnt have a clue about basics of a game....you get exact same amount of gold for doing writs without spending a single point in crafting skill lines as with "maxed crafting skill lines"

ArenGesus wrote: »

Grinding the same quests and delves over and over is lame. When I create an alt, it's to support a different playstyle, not to just play the entire game over again. Yeah, I know I don't need all shards on the same character, but some grinds are just no fun, even the first time. My favorite to hate are lore books and psijic questline. Just give them to me when I reach 50. And horse stats.

Skyshards/Lorebooks/Psijic offer same exact non engaging gameplay mechanic beyond first time you do it. Apparently "reliving getting dat skyshard" forn nth time is a thing....for someone here.

Kidgangster101 · March 2019

MikaHR wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Farming skill points is really only a priority for crafters who want to max out all professions for daily writs and guild trader sales. That directly impacts our ability to make money, though. You get something like 5k gold for doing all 6 crafting writs each day. On 8 characters that just appeared out of nowhere with account bound skills points, that would be about 30k-40k gold per player, per day. Talk about destroying the in game economy... probably best to have players grind for that kind of economic advantage.

What a bunch of poo from someone who doesnt have a clue about basics of a game....you get exact same amount of gold for doing writs without spending a single point in crafting skill lines as with "maxed crafting skill lines"

Ya all my toons except my crafter are level 50 with 0 points just to get my gold, master writs, and maps while using low level crafting mats I have billions of lolol.

AlnilamE · March 2019

Jayroo wrote: »

"I loved wasting 20 hours my time *not playing the game as intended* but instead getting mages to 10 on 4 characters"
nonsense.
You're making it more complicated than it needs to be.

Except playing the game as intended means questing through the zones, exploring and finding the skyshards/lorebooks in the process. Running through a zone and just getting lorebooks/skyshards is taking a shortcut, and that is your choice.

That said, a toggle to show lorebooks/skyshards on the map (and compass) that's available to everyone, including console players would be nice.

r34lian · March 2019

Honestly for someone who don't have life outside pc will welcome all kinds of grind for them it's enjoyable but for us who have job , family it's fun to come home tedious and start grind if I want to try something new on an alt

rather than play

srfrogg23 · March 2019

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Sure, it also raises the question, "I've leveled weapon skills on other characters already, why aren't those account bound, too?" Where do we draw the line? When leveling an alt, what should transfer from the main character? Got collectibles and champion points already. Seems like a bit of a slippery slope, but eventually people will argue that character levels should be account bound, too.

I think doing that would eliminate a lot of the long term, and more meaningful, progression from leveling alts. It would also make main characters far less meaningful.

That being said, you shouldn't be starving for skill points on your alts just by hitting max level and using what you get during the leveling process. You should have more than enough at max level for a fully functioning build that will work for the majority of the endgame content.

Farming skill points is really only a priority for crafters who want to max out all professions for daily writs and guild trader sales. That directly impacts our ability to make money, though. You get something like 5k gold for doing all 6 crafting writs each day. On 8 characters that just appeared out of nowhere with account bound skills points, that would be about 30k-40k gold per player, per day. Talk about destroying the in game economy... probably best to have players grind for that kind of economic advantage.

Lengthy response, but there's a few reasons to not make skill lines and skill points account bound.

We draw the line at things that are universal like mages books and skyshards and maybe mount upgrades. It’s not rocket science. There’s enough other grinds in this game at this point what with psijic line being introduced which is pretty much mandatory for most mag and stam builds in PvP and PvE.

Except those things aren't universal. Nothing says they have to be universal either. Just because I spent an absurd amount of time farming close to 400 skyshards and rank 10 of the mages guild (which I have done) on my main doesn't automatically mean that all of my other characters have that knowledge. Calling lorebooks and skyshards "universal" is arbitrary.

There's nothing to separate them from any other progression mechanism outside of you just not wanting to do it on multiple characters. To which, I have good news for you: it's not required and you are free to not do it because it won't gimp you as much as you would like to believe. It really won't.

I think having collectibles and champion points work on all characters is quite enough to be honest.

But what about the precipus 160 gear you got from cloudrest here. You "earned it" on one toon why should your other toon be able to wear it? CP is the same thing how is grinding skyreach to gain CP any different than grinding lorebooks and skyshards and psijic order? All those things there are boring. And yet some things are shared and some are not. Nothing would be game breaking if you got skyshards on an alt because those alts already have access to CP and crafted training gear sets as they level meaning the game is already easy lol. So let's stop saying stuff shouldn't be grinded over and over because getting to 810 on every one of your too small or having to specifically be on a toon to get a gear drop is identical to what people are asking here. You still need to level the skill lines to unlock moves and passives.

And don't tell me it is game breaking to get skill points at the start now you can literally get them before 15 and have them sitting there to spend if you put in the time. But guess what? Before on tamriel you couldn't do that. You had no access to zones outside of your starting faction. If you entered a vr16 zone as a vr5 guess what you died before getting the skyshards. Now the world scales with you but skyshards never addapted with this change along with lorebooks and psijic order.

I guess it's a preference thing. The general design philosophy seems to be that anything skill line related is character bound.

Let's be honest, here. It's all arbitrary. The rules of the game are made up by a bunch of gamer nerds sitting in an office or conference room at Zos HQ. The rules are made up and the points dont really matter.

I do think there is value to the current ideology. It makes sense for skill lines, and the things related to them, to be character specific. As far as gear from instances goes, that's not skill line related and we can use bound gear on any of our characters.