Why not make Skyshards and Mages Books account bound.

marius_buys

ESO Jesus pleeease, that grind has to be the most pain in the neck thing ever.

r34lian

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Sure, it also raises the question, "I've leveled weapon skills on other characters already, why aren't those account bound, too?" Where do we draw the line? When leveling an alt, what should transfer from the main character? Got collectibles and champion points already. Seems like a bit of a slippery slope, but eventually people will argue that character levels should be account bound, too.

I think doing that would eliminate a lot of the long term, and more meaningful, progression from leveling alts. It would also make main characters far less meaningful.

That being said, you shouldn't be starving for skill points on your alts just by hitting max level and using what you get during the leveling process. You should have more than enough at max level for a fully functioning build that will work for the majority of the endgame content.

Farming skill points is really only a priority for crafters who want to max out all professions for daily writs and guild trader sales. That directly impacts our ability to make money, though. You get something like 5k gold for doing all 6 crafting writs each day. On 8 characters that just appeared out of nowhere with account bound skills points, that would be about 30k-40k gold per player, per day. Talk about destroying the in game economy... probably best to have players grind for that kind of economic advantage.

Lengthy response, but there's a few reasons to not make skill lines and skill points account bound.

We draw the line at things that are universal like mages books and skyshards and maybe mount upgrades. It’s not rocket science. There’s enough other grinds in this game at this point what with psijic line being introduced which is pretty much mandatory for most mag and stam builds in PvP and PvE.

Except those things aren't universal. Nothing says they have to be universal either. Just because I spent an absurd amount of time farming close to 400 skyshards and rank 10 of the mages guild (which I have done) on my main doesn't automatically mean that all of my other characters have that knowledge. Calling lorebooks and skyshards "universal" is arbitrary.

There's nothing to separate them from any other progression mechanism outside of you just not wanting to do it on multiple characters. To which, I have good news for you: it's not required and you are free to not do it because it won't gimp you as much as you would like to believe. It really won't.

I think having collectibles and champion points work on all characters is quite enough to be honest.

But what about the precipus 160 gear you got from cloudrest here. You "earned it" on one toon why should your other toon be able to wear it? CP is the same thing how is grinding skyreach to gain CP any different than grinding lorebooks and skyshards and psijic order? All those things there are boring. And yet some things are shared and some are not. Nothing would be game breaking if you got skyshards on an alt because those alts already have access to CP and crafted training gear sets as they level meaning the game is already easy lol. So let's stop saying stuff shouldn't be grinded over and over because getting to 810 on every one of your too small or having to specifically be on a toon to get a gear drop is identical to what people are asking here. You still need to level the skill lines to unlock moves and passives.

And don't tell me it is game breaking to get skill points at the start now you can literally get them before 15 and have them sitting there to spend if you put in the time. But guess what? Before on tamriel you couldn't do that. You had no access to zones outside of your starting faction. If you entered a vr16 zone as a vr5 guess what you died before getting the skyshards. Now the world scales with you but skyshards never addapted with this change along with lorebooks and psijic order.

I guess it's a preference thing. The general design philosophy seems to be that anything skill line related is character bound.

Let's be honest, here. It's all arbitrary. The rules of the game are made up by a bunch of gamer nerds sitting in an office or conference room at Zos HQ. The rules are made up and the points dont really matter.

I do think there is value to the current ideology. It makes sense for skill lines, and the things related to them, to be character specific. As far as gear from instances goes, that's not skill line related and we can use bound gear on any of our characters.

OK I agree with story line or skill line thing but how skyshard is related to story line / skill lines by any means,your alt gets campion points but not skill points why? When they both don't have any relation to story however cp is gain by xp more like a character gain through its adventure but skyshards ! you run like headless chicken to grind them and they have no relation to story or quest or any type of character progression.

Androconium

Soul19reaper wrote: »

<snip>
OK I agree with story line or skill line thing but how skyshard is related to story line / skill lines by any means,your alt gets campion points but not skill points why? When they both don't have any relation to story however cp is gain by xp more like a character gain through its adventure but skyshards ! you run like headless chicken to grind them and they have no relation to story or quest or any type of character progression.

Your total CP is accrued by any character you play. THIS is your reward for long term PLAYER experience.

The original intention of the skyshards would have been to force you to spend time searching for them. That's why they are clue-based. Some you find in easy situations, others give you a fight before you can claim them.

They are part of each character's progression, with the concept that you won't play the same way on each character and some people may never utilise all the shards on subsequent characters. Cyrodiil shards are the perfect example of this. If your new character is in a different alliance, the shards that are easily accessible will vary with ongoing campaign outcomes.

There are 429 shards available to me with DLC. With DLC; another variable to consider. That means 143 skill points (for me). Full crafting uses around 120 skill points. As my crafter also has around 70 skillpoints spread over other skill lines, I've had to earn around 50 from gameplay and quest completion.

If you don't craft anything and just want these extra points for end game stuff, then I fail to see why you can't just spend a day or two getting all the above-ground shards, from all the base game locations.

It is simply not the arduous task that you would have us all believe.

There are enough shards around that are easy to obtain, to give new characters a decent pool of easy skill points.

illusiouk

Old Players who did the skyshards and mage book grind for every character think, if they had to do it, everyone should. Even in a aging game that needs a steady new influx of players.

Those same old players will wonder when the game is dying "Maybe if we agreed to the quality of life issues concerning account based achievements etc, more would be playing ESO"

I wanted a necro so much but now...just cba.

Tandor

Edziu wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Except those things aren't universal. Nothing says they have to be universal either. Just because I spent an absurd amount of time farming close to 400 skyshards and rank 10 of the mages guild (which I have done) on my main doesn't automatically mean that all of my other characters have that knowledge.

so you wouldnt have problem to make also cp character bound yes? as whiel you play on different characters every of them have earned differeent amount of cp and probably even noone alone of them have earned cap cp but even if it would be single char on which you play the most like main, rest would have realy low cp and as I asked you would be fine with it yes?

I wouldn't personally have any problem with CPs being character-specific, indeed I would welcome everything being character-specific.

However, it's precisely because some players prefer everything to be character-specific while other players prefer everything to be account-wide, that I believe ZOS have done a good job in balancing those different approaches and making some things like CPs and collections account-wide and other things like skyshards and lorebooks etc character-specific. It's a compromise, and a decent one at that. I'm happy with the way things are for that reason, but if some want to argue for more things to be made account-wide then I'm quite happy to argue for more things to be made character-specific instead - two can play that game !

srfrogg23

Soul19reaper wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Sure, it also raises the question, "I've leveled weapon skills on other characters already, why aren't those account bound, too?" Where do we draw the line? When leveling an alt, what should transfer from the main character? Got collectibles and champion points already. Seems like a bit of a slippery slope, but eventually people will argue that character levels should be account bound, too.

I think doing that would eliminate a lot of the long term, and more meaningful, progression from leveling alts. It would also make main characters far less meaningful.

That being said, you shouldn't be starving for skill points on your alts just by hitting max level and using what you get during the leveling process. You should have more than enough at max level for a fully functioning build that will work for the majority of the endgame content.

Farming skill points is really only a priority for crafters who want to max out all professions for daily writs and guild trader sales. That directly impacts our ability to make money, though. You get something like 5k gold for doing all 6 crafting writs each day. On 8 characters that just appeared out of nowhere with account bound skills points, that would be about 30k-40k gold per player, per day. Talk about destroying the in game economy... probably best to have players grind for that kind of economic advantage.

Lengthy response, but there's a few reasons to not make skill lines and skill points account bound.

We draw the line at things that are universal like mages books and skyshards and maybe mount upgrades. It’s not rocket science. There’s enough other grinds in this game at this point what with psijic line being introduced which is pretty much mandatory for most mag and stam builds in PvP and PvE.

Except those things aren't universal. Nothing says they have to be universal either. Just because I spent an absurd amount of time farming close to 400 skyshards and rank 10 of the mages guild (which I have done) on my main doesn't automatically mean that all of my other characters have that knowledge. Calling lorebooks and skyshards "universal" is arbitrary.

There's nothing to separate them from any other progression mechanism outside of you just not wanting to do it on multiple characters. To which, I have good news for you: it's not required and you are free to not do it because it won't gimp you as much as you would like to believe. It really won't.

I think having collectibles and champion points work on all characters is quite enough to be honest.

But what about the precipus 160 gear you got from cloudrest here. You "earned it" on one toon why should your other toon be able to wear it? CP is the same thing how is grinding skyreach to gain CP any different than grinding lorebooks and skyshards and psijic order? All those things there are boring. And yet some things are shared and some are not. Nothing would be game breaking if you got skyshards on an alt because those alts already have access to CP and crafted training gear sets as they level meaning the game is already easy lol. So let's stop saying stuff shouldn't be grinded over and over because getting to 810 on every one of your too small or having to specifically be on a toon to get a gear drop is identical to what people are asking here. You still need to level the skill lines to unlock moves and passives.

And don't tell me it is game breaking to get skill points at the start now you can literally get them before 15 and have them sitting there to spend if you put in the time. But guess what? Before on tamriel you couldn't do that. You had no access to zones outside of your starting faction. If you entered a vr16 zone as a vr5 guess what you died before getting the skyshards. Now the world scales with you but skyshards never addapted with this change along with lorebooks and psijic order.

I guess it's a preference thing. The general design philosophy seems to be that anything skill line related is character bound.

Let's be honest, here. It's all arbitrary. The rules of the game are made up by a bunch of gamer nerds sitting in an office or conference room at Zos HQ. The rules are made up and the points dont really matter.

I do think there is value to the current ideology. It makes sense for skill lines, and the things related to them, to be character specific. As far as gear from instances goes, that's not skill line related and we can use bound gear on any of our characters.

OK I agree with story line or skill line thing but how skyshard is related to story line / skill lines by any means,your alt gets campion points but not skill points why? When they both don't have any relation to story however cp is gain by xp more like a character gain through its adventure but skyshards ! you run like headless chicken to grind them and they have no relation to story or quest or any type of character progression.

Skyshards are intended to reward players for exploration. That's why they're sprinkled throughout the content. Story-wise, they fell to the ground during the Soul-burst if I remember right. Been a while since I did those old quest lines.

AlnilamE

illusiouk wrote: »

Old Players who did the skyshards and mage book grind for every character think, if they had to do it, everyone should. Even in a aging game that needs a steady new influx of players.

Those same old players will wonder when the game is dying "Maybe if we agreed to the quality of life issues concerning account based achievements etc, more would be playing ESO"

I wanted a necro so much but now...just cba.

Again, there are QoL changes that can be made that are not the equivalent of completely removing character progression.

As Tandor pointed out, the game does strike a balance between character progression (skill points, skill lines, achievements) and account progression (Champion Points, dyes, gear progression - via the shared bank). Some people would prefer more character specific things, some would prefer more account-wide things. It's a personal preference.

Personally, if skyshards were account-wide, I would have no reason to play my alts anymore, as my main character has all skyshards until Elsweyr comes out, so my alts would immediately have all the skills they need and would therefore become uninteresting.

However, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I would be ok with skyshards/lorebooks showing up on the map as a toggle. Or for cutting the number of skyshards by 3 and making each shard grand 1 skill point. That would make gathering them faster, but would not invalidate the individual progression of a character.

This would be somewhat similar to what GW2 did with the introduction of mounts: It made exploring the zones and gathering Hero Point about 50% faster than when you had to do everything on foot, but it still takes effort put into a particular character.

FlopsyPrince

Give players the same functionality on the PS4 (and XBOX) that they can get with addons in the area of finding SkyShards and Lore Books. It would still be an annoying grind, but at least you could find them easier. I have a computer right next to the game and search for them that way, but it is much harder than it would be with integrated functionality.

At least they just changed to mark the main questline givers and such with a slightly different mark. That makes following those easier. Mark SkyShards and books (or at least their locations) the same way and it would be much more bearable.

I grind quite a bit as a solo quester (for the most part), but this should definitely be simplified.

Kidgangster101

AlnilamE wrote: »

illusiouk wrote: »

Old Players who did the skyshards and mage book grind for every character think, if they had to do it, everyone should. Even in a aging game that needs a steady new influx of players.

Those same old players will wonder when the game is dying "Maybe if we agreed to the quality of life issues concerning account based achievements etc, more would be playing ESO"

I wanted a necro so much but now...just cba.

Again, there are QoL changes that can be made that are not the equivalent of completely removing character progression.

As Tandor pointed out, the game does strike a balance between character progression (skill points, skill lines, achievements) and account progression (Champion Points, dyes, gear progression - via the shared bank). Some people would prefer more character specific things, some would prefer more account-wide things. It's a personal preference.

Personally, if skyshards were account-wide, I would have no reason to play my alts anymore, as my main character has all skyshards until Elsweyr comes out, so my alts would immediately have all the skills they need and would therefore become uninteresting.

However, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I would be ok with skyshards/lorebooks showing up on the map as a toggle. Or for cutting the number of skyshards by 3 and making each shard grand 1 skill point. That would make gathering them faster, but would not invalidate the individual progression of a character.

This would be somewhat similar to what GW2 did with the introduction of mounts: It made exploring the zones and gathering Hero Point about 50% faster than when you had to do everything on foot, but it still takes effort put into a particular character.

I would support 2 of your ideas no problem. The one reducing skyshards and making them each 1 skill points each (makes the grind 1/3) and the map toggle option (or even give us a personal account wide option where we can set all sorts of markers on our own maps as we discover things).

But what I don't understand is you saying if skyshards and lorebooks we're just given to you then you would never play your alts. But why have alts if your only real concern is to get them skyshards and lore books? This is a MMO and you are suppose to play with people. Grindy stuff like this that can be done solo isn't what I want to do when I log in. When I play I want to do things with my guild or play with my wife. Me and my wife have 1 toon that has literally every skyshards and it was a chore and it definitely took more than one or two days to get.

AndrewQ84

I don't know about the mages guild books. Thise are used for leveling the skill line. Would be a bit unfair to have a level one toon with a fully maxed out mages guild skill line. Shards yes. And achievements.

Kidgangster101

AndrewQ84 wrote: »

I don't know about the mages guild books. Thise are used for leveling the skill line. Would be a bit unfair to have a level one toon with a fully maxed out mages guild skill line. Shards yes. And achievements.

I would say all the things should be unlocked after level 50. That way you can't use meteor as a low level for example.

Sylvermynx

I guess I'm really different. I have 24 toons now. I'm really happy to go hunting for stuff while questing or exploring. Every girl gets her books and shards when she gets to them in ordinary daily play.

I do have to point out that if I was still working full time, I might not feel that way.... Being retired means yes I'm OLD. It also means I can spend as much time playing every day as I wish (unless of course, like tomorrow, we have dentist appts an 80 mile round trip from home, and because we're in town anyway, we'll hit Costco, the "regular" grocery, and the liquor store before we head for home, so likely it will be 2-3 pm before I ever get in game....)

In any case, I would actually be okay with a toggle so those who really want this can have it, and I just go on about my own method the way I always have.

CassandraGemini

SNSquietxXSTORM wrote: »

Why hasn't this been put into the game? Specially for console players that don't have mods to show them. It makes so much sense leaving you focusing on questing and leveling for the End Game. It makes you not want to create other characters. Make it simpler guys just my thoughts.

So, I have to admit, I didn't read the entire thread, so I can't be sure if something like this has alread been said or not, but I feel kind of ambivalent about this. Skyshards I wouldn't agree on. You really don't need that many skill points on your alts anyway, assuming your main is also your crafter and has the majority of skill points. Just go and do the main quest, which will also help you level, maybe clear some delves to find the skyshards there and other than that just pick them up when you see them out in the open and you should be fine, there's really no need for an extensive "grind" for skill points on alts. Also, if this were the case, and every alt you create automatically has all the skill points you have unlocked on your other characters... I don't know but I feel like that would be too much potential for being too op too soon. Might be just me, but I wouldn't like that. Would kind of take away the sense of progression.
As for the lorebooks though, I absolutely agree. It's just so extremely tedious to run around every map mindlessly collecting these things for every magicka toon. On my first character who's not even a mage, I just collected them whenever I saw them lying around and was, for some reason, really happy, when I finally hit level 10 in the mages guild skill line. Not because I needed any of these skills, but just because I had somehow managed to find a whole slew of these books just by exploring the world. It made me feel like I had travelled far and wide, even more so after finishing the mages guild quest line and getting every book I had ever read added to my "lorebook" collection. And I would sure like it, if I could at some point complete this collection, which would certainly be a lot easier if the books my alts read would contribute to that too. Having to start at zero with this for every new toon is just a pain and actually makes me want to stick to stam toons only, just so I don't have to grind these things to be more efficient in combat.

disintegr8

There is a simple equation to explain why Skyshards should not be account wide:

Skyshard x 3 = 1 skill point.

Even with only the base game skyshards you are looking at over 300, so if you have these and start a new character, he'd be level 3 with all of the skill points (100) he might ever need and free to power level up to 50 - at which point he'd have 164 skill points, heaps to spare.

Being able to power level to 50 on a new character without questing is bad enough, but to also have the skill points without doing anything would be just ridiculous.

Sylvermynx

disintegr8 wrote: »

There is a simple equation to explain why Skyshards should not be account wide:

Skyshard x 3 = 1 skill point.

Even with only the base game skyshards you are looking at over 300, so if you have these and start a new character, he'd be level 3 with all of the skill points (100) he might ever need and free to power level up to 50 - at which point he'd have 164 skill points, heaps to spare.

Being able to power level to 50 on a new character without questing is bad enough, but to also have the skill points without doing anything would be just ridiculous.

Well, that's the point to those saying the freebies shouldn't happen until any toon gets to 50, after all....

disintegr8

Sylvermynx wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

There is a simple equation to explain why Skyshards should not be account wide:

Skyshard x 3 = 1 skill point.

Even with only the base game skyshards you are looking at over 300, so if you have these and start a new character, he'd be level 3 with all of the skill points (100) he might ever need and free to power level up to 50 - at which point he'd have 164 skill points, heaps to spare.

Being able to power level to 50 on a new character without questing is bad enough, but to also have the skill points without doing anything would be just ridiculous.

Well, that's the point to those saying the freebies shouldn't happen until any toon gets to 50, after all....

I'm actually all for CP not being available to a new toon until you hit level 50 - but I can hear the outcry already.

Sylvermynx

disintegr8 wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

There is a simple equation to explain why Skyshards should not be account wide:

Skyshard x 3 = 1 skill point.

Even with only the base game skyshards you are looking at over 300, so if you have these and start a new character, he'd be level 3 with all of the skill points (100) he might ever need and free to power level up to 50 - at which point he'd have 164 skill points, heaps to spare.

Being able to power level to 50 on a new character without questing is bad enough, but to also have the skill points without doing anything would be just ridiculous.

Well, that's the point to those saying the freebies shouldn't happen until any toon gets to 50, after all....

I'm actually all for CP not being available to a new toon until you hit level 50 - but I can hear the outcry already.

I haven't used the CP I have from the one level 50 toon on anyone but one girl (the stamblade who's just impossible to play with my ping). The rest of them are just fine.... in fact they're more fine than the level 50 with 70 CP.... Then again.... I may have more restraint than some do.

disintegr8

Sylvermynx wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

There is a simple equation to explain why Skyshards should not be account wide:

Skyshard x 3 = 1 skill point.

Even with only the base game skyshards you are looking at over 300, so if you have these and start a new character, he'd be level 3 with all of the skill points (100) he might ever need and free to power level up to 50 - at which point he'd have 164 skill points, heaps to spare.

Being able to power level to 50 on a new character without questing is bad enough, but to also have the skill points without doing anything would be just ridiculous.

Well, that's the point to those saying the freebies shouldn't happen until any toon gets to 50, after all....

I'm actually all for CP not being available to a new toon until you hit level 50 - but I can hear the outcry already.

I haven't used the CP I have from the one level 50 toon on anyone but one girl (the stamblade who's just impossible to play with my ping). The rest of them are just fine.... in fact they're more fine than the level 50 with 70 CP.... Then again.... I may have more restraint than some do.

I've leveled 15 characters on my main and did use the CP - I figured I'd earned the right since the first 6 or so were in the pre CP VR days.

I've actually just got my first character to level 50 on the EU server - a stamblade - not a very wise choice for a first character, so I know where you are coming from.

Sylvermynx

disintegr8 wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

There is a simple equation to explain why Skyshards should not be account wide:

Skyshard x 3 = 1 skill point.

Even with only the base game skyshards you are looking at over 300, so if you have these and start a new character, he'd be level 3 with all of the skill points (100) he might ever need and free to power level up to 50 - at which point he'd have 164 skill points, heaps to spare.

Being able to power level to 50 on a new character without questing is bad enough, but to also have the skill points without doing anything would be just ridiculous.

Well, that's the point to those saying the freebies shouldn't happen until any toon gets to 50, after all....

I'm actually all for CP not being available to a new toon until you hit level 50 - but I can hear the outcry already.

I haven't used the CP I have from the one level 50 toon on anyone but one girl (the stamblade who's just impossible to play with my ping). The rest of them are just fine.... in fact they're more fine than the level 50 with 70 CP.... Then again.... I may have more restraint than some do.

I've leveled 15 characters on my main and did use the CP - I figured I'd earned the right since the first 6 or so were in the pre CP VR days.

I've actually just got my first character to level 50 on the EU server - a stamblade - not a very wise choice for a first character, so I know where you are coming from.

Heh. Well, add in my 2k + ms ping.... it's a nightmare. And I want(ed) to play her as a bowblade.... *sigh* Oh well, once I get her 2 more pieces of Defilers I think she'll be marginally viable (because of the Hunger of course - my baby stamblade on my other account has the 5 pieces, and man, that Hunger helps AMAZINGLY....)

Runefang

I don't really see the issue here. Unless you need every single character to have the ability to PvP, PvE and craft all at once you really don't have to spend that much time hunting skyshards.

I have 10 dps characters who are all built for trials, the skill points required for that is fairly minimal. I think they all sit on 110 or so skill points. Public dungeons group events, group dungeons and overland skyshards are more than enough.

DisgracefulMind

It's annoying, but I do agree that they shouldn't be account-bound. Gives some replay value to each character (and I say this as an alt addict).

Siohwenoeht

disintegr8 wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

There is a simple equation to explain why Skyshards should not be account wide:

Skyshard x 3 = 1 skill point.

Even with only the base game skyshards you are looking at over 300, so if you have these and start a new character, he'd be level 3 with all of the skill points (100) he might ever need and free to power level up to 50 - at which point he'd have 164 skill points, heaps to spare.

Being able to power level to 50 on a new character without questing is bad enough, but to also have the skill points without doing anything would be just ridiculous.

Well, that's the point to those saying the freebies shouldn't happen until any toon gets to 50, after all....

I'm actually all for CP not being available to a new toon until you hit level 50 - but I can hear the outcry already.

Been saying that in every one of these threads too.

Map waypoints would be ok. It seems to me the people who focus on the lorebooks as a pain point either don't know or don't want to do the mages guild dailies. The dailies don't give much, granted, but neither do the lorebooks. In combination though, mages guild isn't really that bad.

After the zone guide landed, I looked at my last lvl 50 alt to see the progress on skyshards and lorebooks and without even searching for them, that toon had better than 80% of both completed in each zone they'd been to. Mages guild was lvl 7 already without even going outside of the alliance zones. If you're a completionist you're going to be doing the majority of quests in any given zone and therefore going to run across most of these just getting that achievement.

To me the idea is a non-starter.

Edziu

Tandor wrote: »

I wouldn't personally have any problem with CPs being character-specific, indeed I would welcome everything being character-specific.

I understand you and ahve no problem with it

but in this my sentence in this other post I mean many people are just hypocrites as they want those skyshard, lore book character ound but eveyrthin else they want to keep account share

but someone like you is just normal nonhypocrite person who is just fine and I have no problem even if is with much different opinion
the problem are hypocrites about which I mentiond to which you dont belong :P

Jayroo

AlnilamE wrote: »

Jayroo wrote: »

"I loved wasting 20 hours my time *not playing the game as intended* but instead getting mages to 10 on 4 characters"
nonsense.
You're making it more complicated than it needs to be.

Except playing the game as intended means questing through the zones, exploring and finding the skyshards/lorebooks in the process. Running through a zone and just getting lorebooks/skyshards is taking a shortcut, and that is your choice.

That said, a toggle to show lorebooks/skyshards on the map (and compass) that's available to everyone, including console players would be nice.

you have the patience to level mages to 10 on a console, but not read my other post.

mages. guild. needs. a. revamp.it. was. lazily. done. do i need to go on whisper and say it for ya?

Mr_Walker

todokete wrote: »

MMO's aren't like this. You grind for your rewards and they feel rewarding.

No, they don't really.

starkerealm

disintegr8 wrote: »

There is a simple equation to explain why Skyshards should not be account wide:

Skyshard x 3 = 1 skill point.

Even with only the base game skyshards you are looking at over 300, so if you have these and start a new character, he'd be level 3 with all of the skill points (100) he might ever need and free to power level up to 50 - at which point he'd have 164 skill points, heaps to spare.

Being able to power level to 50 on a new character without questing is bad enough, but to also have the skill points without doing anything would be just ridiculous.

That's the thing, though. A level 3 character can only spend about five skill points, maximum.

Now, as you level up, you do get access to more skills, and that will result in some wonky shifts to the power curve... but that already happens when you have champion points.

Without sitting down and crunching the numbers, you'd see some increases around level 15-20 where you'd have access to significantly more skills than a raw player. But, at the same time, it doesn't really matter that much, as you still need to unlock those skill lines.

There's some knock on effect with weapons and class skill lines, because the number of skills you can slot does increase the rate at which those skill lines advance, but, again, that's not that big a power jump.

It's not like you'd be able to roll up a level 1 character, and immediately buy Eye of the Storm. Beyond that, it doesn't even affect most skill lines. Having 134 skill points from skyshards won't let you rank up Fighter's Guild faster.

This is where there is a problem with the Mages Guild books being account wide, because that is a skill line progression system, and it does mean you'd have instant access to a few powerful abilities, mainly meteor.

The big payoff for this gets into a weird place though. It would make it far easier to make crafting alts. Or at least, spec into crafting on all your characters, but, if that's the goal, maybe crafting skill points and progression should be reevaluated, and moved to a more account based system anyway. Right now, there's the unfortunate situation that you need to switch characters to craft stuff, which just wastes time. If that stuff became account wide, it could make life a little less unpleasant for crafters. But, that's, really, an entirely different conversation.

r34lian

For people saying you don't need skyshard leveling an alt do they know that stamina toons do require skyshards farming , I levelled my stamsorc by doing prophet's quest and dlc main quests(morrowind / summerset /murkmire)with that I'm spared with only 10 skill points and that too I've to put in undaunted as well as psijic order now if I would want to try something new like change skill or something I'd have to go on for grind and this also DISCOURAGES trying UNIQUE things!!

starkerealm

Soul19reaper wrote: »

For people saying you don't need skyshard leveling an alt do they know that stamina toons do require skyshards farming , I levelled my stamsorc by doing prophet's quest and dlc main quests(morrowind / summerset /murkmire)with that I'm spared with only 10 skill points and that too I've to put in undaunted as well as psijic order now if I would want to try something new like change skill or something I'd have to go on for grind and this also DISCOURAGES trying UNIQUE things!!

That's kinda, everyone. You do need shards, or some other source of skill points.

You especially see this when players power level via skyreach, then go, "wait, but I've got to do all this other stuff to get the skill points I need?"

Mag builds usually only trail about 10-15 skill points behind stam builds, and this is before you consider that there's a lot more skill points they should spend on passives they don't absolutely need.

Kidgangster101

starkerealm wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

There is a simple equation to explain why Skyshards should not be account wide:

Skyshard x 3 = 1 skill point.

Even with only the base game skyshards you are looking at over 300, so if you have these and start a new character, he'd be level 3 with all of the skill points (100) he might ever need and free to power level up to 50 - at which point he'd have 164 skill points, heaps to spare.

Being able to power level to 50 on a new character without questing is bad enough, but to also have the skill points without doing anything would be just ridiculous.

That's the thing, though. A level 3 character can only spend about five skill points, maximum.

Now, as you level up, you do get access to more skills, and that will result in some wonky shifts to the power curve... but that already happens when you have champion points.

Without sitting down and crunching the numbers, you'd see some increases around level 15-20 where you'd have access to significantly more skills than a raw player. But, at the same time, it doesn't really matter that much, as you still need to unlock those skill lines.

There's some knock on effect with weapons and class skill lines, because the number of skills you can slot does increase the rate at which those skill lines advance, but, again, that's not that big a power jump.

It's not like you'd be able to roll up a level 1 character, and immediately buy Eye of the Storm. Beyond that, it doesn't even affect most skill lines. Having 134 skill points from skyshards won't let you rank up Fighter's Guild faster.

This is where there is a problem with the Mages Guild books being account wide, because that is a skill line progression system, and it does mean you'd have instant access to a few powerful abilities, mainly meteor.

The big payoff for this gets into a weird place though. It would make it far easier to make crafting alts. Or at least, spec into crafting on all your characters, but, if that's the goal, maybe crafting skill points and progression should be reevaluated, and moved to a more account based system anyway. Right now, there's the unfortunate situation that you need to switch characters to craft stuff, which just wastes time. If that stuff became account wide, it could make life a little less unpleasant for crafters. But, that's, really, an entirely different conversation.

Will people stop saying crafting gets easier lol. YOU ALL KNOW YOU CAN DO WRITS AT LEVEL 50 AND USE YOUR LEVEL 1 MATS IF YOU PUT 0 POINTS INTO IT RIGHT? YOU DO KNOW YOU CAN GET THE SAME REWARDS FOR BEING 1 AND BEING 10 POINTS RIGHT? YOU DO KNOW YOU CAN GET GOLD MATS DELIVERED VIA MAIL BY HAVING THE 1 BASE POINT YOU GET IN CRAFTING RIGHT?

Lol you all are Sooooooo silly thinking that you need to waste high end mats to do daily writs. I do it using all level 1 mats on all my tools except my main crafter. And guess what? THE MONEY YOU GET AS THE REWARD DOESN'T CHANGE EITHER!

Now as far as a power creep goes...... A lot of "low level" dungeons go like this. I que in as a level 17 toon to do my daily random dungeon.... I see a 810 DPS ques as a tank for fast que time, a 210 DPS, and then maybe you get a 500+ healer or another DPS as a fake heal. I say hi they just run ahead. So I try to do my quest and they just proceed very large pulls and killing things faster than I can blink. Before I know it the final boss is killed and yep that was my "low level dungeon" experience but because I would have 100 skill points that I can't asig makes the gaming experience too easy....... Think about that please and get back to me because it's not often that it's a group of all low level toons actually playing a dungeon and doing mechanics.

starkerealm

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

YOU DO KNOW YOU CAN GET THE SAME REWARDS FOR BEING 1 AND BEING 10 POINTS RIGHT?

This is untrue. You cannot obtain master writs for doing tier 1 writs. You need Tier 10 (or 8 for alchemy, 6 for provisioning, 5 for Jewelry Crafting, though not getting JC Master Writs is probably more of a mercy, still, the point stands.)

There's a few other things that are exclusive to max tier writs, like Psijic Ambrosia fragments. Now, those aren't as valuable as they once were, but the recipe's still a nice get. Also, doesn't matter much, but the repair kits you get will split between your level and your crafting tier. Obviously, Grand Repair Kits are slightly more useful than petty ones.

Additionally, and this one might shock you, you cannot craft endgame gear or consumables without buying up the skill line. Now, equipment is a minor inconvenience, simply because you're not going to be making gear constantly. However, not having to log over to a different character, craft up some food and potions, bank them, log back over to your original character, and then be able to tell your trial group you're ready to go is very convenient. Has nothing to do with writs. It also makes life a little less convienent when a guildie asks if anyone can craft something they need for research. "Yes, I can, but not on this character," *cue logging, and more logging.*

So, while you're partially correct, there's less incentive to spec up just for writs, you're not correct in assuming that there's no reason to spec up. Your capslock is also broken, might want to get that looked at.