disintegr8 wrote: »

Simple answer is yes, magsorc can be a strong ranged DPS (have been for a while). They are easy and fun to play, have easily remembers rotos and don't rely on having a healer handy all of the time to keep them alive and throw shards.

Funny how these discussions get into a %$#@ing contest about which is better. Sure, people might get better ranged DPS from other builds but that doesn't mean magsorcs aren't strong.

I get what you are saying but the bold part has not been true in a long while if you are talking competitive score pushing trial groups. If not, that literally any class can be a ranged DPS and clear 99% of content.

A lot definitely changed on monday, but last week, a trial DPS sorc had virtually no self healing (you dont run power surge in a trial), the worst sustain of almost any class (they definitely needed shards/orbs), and their rotation needed to be played dynamically to even have a shot at competing.

Expletives aside, we compare mSorcs to the other two obvious ranged magic dealers (templar and NB) to discuss their pros and cons. Until monday, sorcs were objectively in last place. You can call them strong, sure, but other classes were definitely stronger. I assume people coming to the forums to ask questions want to know why and by how much.

Commancho wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

We’ll have to agree to disagree on a few of these. Boundless storm and Grothdarr are both melee range and don’t help either class for ranged DPS. Additionally, Boundless really shouldn’t be used is coordinated groups now that Frost Cloak hits 12 players (unless you’re lacking a Warden, which is a bad idea for Minor Toughness).

Any class can slot a lightning staff and destro ulti for good AoE, but they all give up single target damage to do so. Maybe Sorcerer sacrifices slightly less, but they’re still losing something by not using double inferno.

And Implosion no longer exists, which is one less reason to specialize in lightning damage.

Well 8m is definetly not a melee range, altough I see what do you mean. However there is no such a thing like "ranged only" DD in PVE because in order to get decent DPS you need to use two bars and include short-medium range abilites in your rotation (via most popular stam build across all classes is dw+bow which requires close range as well). To use any class to maximum you need to get into at least 5-8m range. Ofcourse it's not always possible due to some mechanics, but in this case our dps output is not optimal and it will never be.

As of the Boundless - you don't get always Warden in your group (at least in 4-man content). Besides it cost almost nothing and it lasts for 33s so why not using if it keeps Grothgar up by most of the time?

Yeah, every class can use lightning staff, but not every class gets 5% bonus damage to shock damage and since sorcerer's rotation can be based entirely on shock dmg abilities that gives us 5% extra DPS in total. It's quite easy to get gear & make build with 40-45k AoE DPS and that's enaugh for any veteran content in this game (single target wise and we are talking here about pulling this numbers in AoE!). Sorc's builds based on lightning don't need any sustain as they barely every go under 50% magicka (mostly when they need to spam damage shield in the intensive fight). For the same reasons they don't need healing at all (heals you get by Power Surge are more than enaugh).

Sure, you can go over 50-60k single target with magblade. Sure you spend milions to keep up with meta gear. Sure you can spend hundreds of hours on polishing your rotation and sustain. Honestly, how many people aim for leaderboards? OP, do you aim for the leader boards?

You can do that with a sorc on a 6 mil since monday self buffed (and you can do it with farmed/crafted gear). haha. Grothdar is great for trash, but its not much of a boss set. I also love it in VMA. Boundless is hard to make room for in PVE. The damage is a joke. In a raid, you probably get the buff from someone else, and in most 4 man content you just dont need it. Really the best excuse for boundless is for things like downstairs in VCR where you need the major expedition on +3.

As to melee and ranged, well, ranged practically speaking means close enough to hit your target with blockade. I can think of a single fight in this game where you need to spend more than a minimal amount of time outside of that, unless you are specifically following a temporary mechanic (like VAS+2 for example).

Vahrokh wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Surazel wrote: »

Joxer61 wrote: »

Surazel wrote: »

You should play Zaan ( if you can stay melee for sure ) or double Crit Monster set btw. No skoria pls... ( double Crit increase your dps around 4%, so if your Monster set is lower than 4% choose the crit sets )
I would go magblade or MagPlar because they outdps the Sorc.... and MagPlar Rotation is pretty easy.

Greetz
Sura

But looking at a purely ranged dps option, and I have a Magblade, just looking at something different. Isnt Magplar more or less melee as well due to jabs? If I can do decent enough on a magplar as ranged then I will go that route for sure. Also, isn't a Sorc rotation prett straight forward as well?

You play ele weapon on a MagPlar ranged build. No jabs....
Sorc is not static due to the different uptimes from LL (10s) wall (8s) and curse... ( 12s? Not really sure)
On MagPlar Spear and Wall have same uptime (8s) so easier in my opinion.
So pick MagPlar

Probably should have read the whole post before ranting, but this is what I was getting at. To make a sorc and NB sing, you need to play them dynamically. You really dont with magplar. On a magplar, I only use jabs in trash. For single target, use the psijic spammable.

Magplar rotation is so freaking easy. Its just a big circle. Magplar in the current meta is about as simple as we have seen since pet sorcs were all the rage shortly after the buffed pets the first time around. There is no easier way to break 40k on a self buffed dummy IMO. You can make use of skoria and zaan depending on how close you can get. The difference between a static (circular) and dynamic (manage everything on their own timers) rotation is closer on magplar then the other two.

Sorc rotation is trickier. You really want to juggle most of your buffs dynamically, and you have an unpredictable proc to manage. The nature of frags also means your parse is more RNG dependent. If you try to play them statically, you will see a bigger DPS loss than on magplar. Sorcs also have the worst sustain of the lot.

NB rotation is the hardest, but with risk comes a bigger upside. Not only do you want to juggle all your buffs independently, merciless is more difficult to manage than frags IMO. NBs also penalize you the most if your weave is not perfect.

Did you try petsorc? Could you please post a video?

@Vahrokh

I have been playing a pet sorc again since the patch. This is a light attack pet sorc, not a heavy attack pet sorc. I am NOT running the Familiar, just the twilight Matriarch (the one with the heal). I dont even cast it (just make sure its summoned). I havent made any vids in a long while, but I might work on that this week. There are far better players out there than me that usually have this covered, but this is essentially what I am doing. My goal is usually to find the simplest way to pull 95% of what the big boys are pulling, and this patch, mag sorc seems to be the answer, but Magplar still serves that function as well. If you want circular, I would say magplar for ease. If you want to break into dynamic rotations, but are new to it, I think its mag sorc. If you flawless dynamic rotations are your game, NB is the way to go.

My Bars:
Front: Elemental Weapon, Frags, Mages Wrath (or Bound Aegis), Twilight, Daedric Prey, Meteor
Back: LL, Blockade, Elemental Drain (for Parsing, shield or Bound Aegis in raid), Trap, Twilight, Attro

Gear: My gear is 5 Perfect Siroria, 5 Mech Acuity, Zaan, all bloodthirsty. I tried all infused jewelry and it was several K behind on a dummy, but perhaps in certain fights it would be better. For parsing, i get best results with Fire and Lighting enchants, but for raid, I just run absorb magic. It is basically a 1k single target loss for effectively 300 mag regen. I have no issues at all running blue food in a raid. On a 6 mil, i can run parse food, and double damage enchants and sustain solo just fine as long as I use elemental drain.

Rotation: It is basically a simple dynamic rotation. You juggle LL, Blockade, Trap and Prey (in a raid I prefer Channeled Acceleration most of the time unless I can be melee), then its just elemental weapon and frag spamming. When solo, I also keep up elemental drain.

I frankly am still not sold if its even worth it to slot an execute. The parses are virtually the same when I just put bound aegis there. I am seeing 3 mill parses around 54-55, and 6 mill parses around 51-52. Sorc parses are a little RNG Heavy because of frags, and I have yet to see that rotation on the 6 mil where the stars align for the perfect parse. When they proc is also important because you do a more damage with this build on the ends (High health and low health). I tried a static rotation (LL, Blockade and trap, always in order) and it can still break 50k with decent RNG on 3 mil with no execute (havent tried on 6 mil). There are definitely people out there pushing this higher than me, but I was pretty impressed with what this was doing self buffed. It is definitely easier than Dynamic Mageblade.

I am running shadow mundus, and will post my CP when I get home. It's pretty standard stuff (I just used constellations addon). I go perhaps a little heavy on spell pen, because I usually run back room in VCR. I end up over penetrating just a touch in a full raid.

Joxer61 wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw , but...but...Magden!!?? lol

You making it tough now....this pet Sorc stuff looks like a winner! Cheers for you info mate.

LMAO. Magden needs some love; that's for sure.

Pet sorc is def the way to go IMO. You have room for a utility skill (shield or boundless storm, or both if you dont bother with an execute) even with double barring a pet that also serves as a great heal. It is great for backroom in VCR. One thing I love is that as a sorc, you can proc frag and save it before you go through the portal. If you do that with a spectral bow proc on a mageblade, you lose it. I am killing about one more crystal on average before I have to go up to the platform. I never broke any records on my mageblade, but I could hit 50k on a dummy last patch. For me, sorc is a pretty noticable jump in damage, that is easier on the fingers.