Why is Vampire so lackluster in comparison to Werewolf?

Seraphayel
Seraphayel
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Title says it all.

Comparing both skill lines one must come to the conclusion that Werewolf is the clear winner. Not talking about usefulness for builds as Werewolf barely benefits Magicka but from active skills to passives the Werewolf is super fleshed out and one of the most well-thought-out skill lines in the game. This might have happened with the rework but it feels just great.

Why is Vampire in this state since... forever? Besides the awful change to the Ultimate I barely remember any bigger changes. And the overall skill line feels so... boring and stale in comparison.
PS5
EU
Aldmeri Dominion
- Khajiit Arcanist -
  • Raammzzaa
    Raammzzaa
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    The vampire passives are actually pretty awesome where they work for your build (eg tanks, gankblades), but yes, bats used to be better - imho.
  • Kurat
    Kurat
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    Vampire skills are useless, they are only for RP. But passives are absolute must imo. All my toons are vampires. Too bad it makes you look ugly but without you would gimp yourself.
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    Omg, when "lackluster vampire" is basically required for min-maxing of every PVE build in the game while WW is great only in one form which lacks any kind of ranged attacks and which performs good only in packs.
    IMO ZOS should make complete overhaul of vampire, make his ulti a transform to higher vampire with 5 unique skills and give +15% magicka recovery for slotted ulti. As for now it is free +10% recovery and survival at low hp and speed in sneak for rather minor inconvenience which can be fixed by dropping to lower stages if needed.
  • Koolio
    Koolio
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    Because of Clouding Swarm being terrible
  • lassitershawn
    lassitershawn
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    Omg, when "lackluster vampire" is basically required for min-maxing of every PVE build in the game while WW is great only in one form which lacks any kind of ranged attacks and which performs good only in packs.
    IMO ZOS should make complete overhaul of vampire, make his ulti a transform to higher vampire with 5 unique skills and give +15% magicka recovery for slotted ulti. As for now it is free +10% recovery and survival at low hp and speed in sneak for rather minor inconvenience which can be fixed by dropping to lower stages if needed.

    Yeah vamp passives are too strong and actives are niche. Better actives and require one to be slotted for the passives. Pretty stupid that vampire is BiS for most PvE builds without even using anything vampire related.
    William Thorne - EP Breton Sorcerer
    Astrid Winterborn - EP Breton Warden
    Erik Ironskin - EP Nord Dragonknight
    Venasa Viri - EP Dunmer Nightblade

    IR x8, GH x5, TTT x2
  • E7216
    E7216
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    Maybe someday ZOS releases a vampire themed DLC in which they completely overhaul the mechanics of vampirism, like they did with werewolves (Wolfhunter).
  • Kalik_Gold
    Kalik_Gold
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    Before the werewolf changes, there was a lot of Vampires....
    Main: (PvP & PvE)
    Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige

    PvP:
    Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
    Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
    Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
    Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
    Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer

    PvP: (Specialty)
    Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
    Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
    Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
    Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden
    Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer

    PvE:
    Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight (Damage)
    Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
    Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (One-Bar)
    Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)

    Leveling...
    Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist
    Styx of Akatosh a Goblin* Arcanist
    Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
    Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
    ======
    Passives of another race used. (RP)
    *Breton
    **Imperial




    __________________________Backstories:_________________________

    Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.

    Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.

    Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...

    Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.

    Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.

    The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.

    The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.

    Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.

    Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)

    And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.

    After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.

    After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...

    Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.

    Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.

    {time moves forward through the hour-glass}
    PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion
    Returning player - 2017-2022, back in 25'
  • Tan9oSuccka
    Tan9oSuccka
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    Kalik_Gold wrote: »
    Before the werewolf changes, there was a lot of Vampires....

    Still are.

    Undeath passive, recovery, mist form and swarm are still really good.

    Mist form is incredible. I kited an entire zerg from Bleakers to the front door of Chalman.
  • rabidmyers
    rabidmyers
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    cuz they sparkle
    at a place nobody knows
  • TheShadowScout
    TheShadowScout
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Why is Vampire so lackluster in comparison to Werewolf?
    ...because vampires do not -have- to transform to use their vampirism skills?

    I mean, that is why werewolves have those extra skills, because when they do transform, ALL their normal skills become unavailable. Vampires on the other hand can still use ALL the normal skills, and thus have a fa wider mix and match options range... And if you really want to get the most enjoyment out of them, make yourself a vampire magblade and (blood)suck your way to victory!
    E7216 wrote: »
    Maybe someday ZOS releases a vampire themed DLC in which they completely overhaul the mechanics of vampirism, like they did with werewolves (Wolfhunter).
    Its possible.
    Though I doubt they will go for a "complete overhaul", some fine-tuning on the other hand, and perhaps added flavor as I often wish for...

    I mean, I would love to see vampires feel more "Bloodsucking Fiend!!!" rather then "just another vestige with an extra skill line..." in ESO and feature some more of the classic clichees...
    • I would love for vampires to have a greatly reduced swimming speed, to make them avoid "running water"...
    • I would love for vampires to be kill-on-sight by the justice guards, and get some "masquerade" skill (so disguising themselves costs them something, like a skill slot) that lowers their apparent vampirism level by one stage (to looking mortal when well fed!) to balance...
    • I would love to see player vampires to get the same "Shadowy teleport rush" skill bloodfiends use...
    • I would love to see vampires get some "blood starved" mechanic making them suffer a slowly increasing chance to auto-attack innocents and allies for a quick bite when spending too much time at stage four...
    • I would love to see the vampire feeding and the blade of woe to be combined into a "bite of woe" for dark brotherhood vampires, to finally end the issue of picking the wrong attack because the NPC moved half an inch; one "step closer and dracula-rip into the victims throat" animation that both feeds and kills in a manner pleasing to sithis, that should not be such a issue...
    • I would love to see all NPC bloodfiends become "neutral" (yellow, non-hostile but attackable) to player vampires...
    • I would love for vampires to get a "dominate" skill that allows them to entrance civilian NPCs for a quick feeding without them yelling for the guard (witnesses still would tho)...
    • I would love to see a vampire-use-exclusive "Bat Swarm Transformation" mount...
    • I would love to see alchemically treated blood bottles to store the red stuff for later snacks when feeding at full...
    • I would love to see the map from the vampire initiation quest expanded into a whole "Vampire Sanctuary" where only vampires can go, use crafting stations to make vampire-specific sets, meet up and socialize with their fellow bloodsuckers, talk to vampire merchants to buy vampire-specific gear and -furniture-, maybe pick up a vampire-specific daily quest, and snack from "pomme-de-sang" NPCs...
    • I would love to see a "Vampire" themed crafting style, that could drop from the aforementioned daily quests (or be sold in the crown store)...
  • ccfeeling
    ccfeeling
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    There were not much WW in the game , especially PVE before 2018 ,

    Until

    The Blood rage passive revamp

    When you deal damage, the duration of your Werewolf Transformation is increased by 4 seconds. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

    Vampire is good too , the passives are very powerful and 7/24 , so the choice is depends on the player style .

    TBH , when we are in WW form , we have to check the timer constantly :D

    And we min / max the sets and CP for WW form , so we are pretty weak at human form .

    Such as VSCP HM , VBF HM

    If we failed at the 1st attempt , we have to use the weaker human form and try again until we can transform again .

    VSCP HM has no corpse for Devour , its actually cannot complete it before the WW timer run out .
    VBF HM , we can Devour when one of 3 bosses die if possible ... ( Lava location / Falling stone phase / Bosses HA if lose taunt )

    There are some issues with WW form .
  • Facefister
    Facefister
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    Vampires and Werewolves should be subclasses which utilize the class passives instead the other way around. I am talking about of permanent Vampire and Werewolf forms with two bars and ultimates.

    Just take the Werewolf as an example. Permanent form, the ultimate would be a bigger transformation for a short period of time.
  • ccfeeling
    ccfeeling
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    One more problem I have mentioned long time ago .

    We lost the weapon abilities during WW form , LA & HA count as melee attack , so we lost some set choices , we cannot use the sets related with weapon abilities .

    Such as

    Shadow of the Red Mountain
    (5 items) When you deal damage with a Weapon ability, you have a 10% chance to spawn a volcano that erupts after 1 second and fires a projectile at the nearest enemy that deals 8400 Flame Damage. This effect can occur once every 2 seconds.

    Way of Fire
    (5 items) When you deal damage with a Weapon ability, you have a 20% chance to deal an additional 4000 Flame Damage. This effect can occur once every 2 seconds.
  • BRogueNZ
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    Wish bats was a worthwhile ult, used to be, now everyone looks at you like what were you thinking..
  • Sanctum74
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    Best passives in the game that don't require a skill slot or an expensive ult. Then there's mist form to give mobility and snare/immobilization immunity to classes that don't have it versus ww which tend to get wrecked unless they're running in a group. Hmmm I'll take my vamp any day versus a dog role player build js.
  • ccfeeling
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    E7216 wrote: »
    Maybe someday ZOS releases a vampire themed DLC in which they completely overhaul the mechanics of vampirism, like they did with werewolves (Wolfhunter).

    I believed that Vampire theme DLC will be released one day ... :)
  • TheBonesXXX
    TheBonesXXX
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    Just make both ultis invisible again.
  • idk
    idk
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    Vampire has some great passives compared to WW. It is a skill line that compliments everything we already have rather than one that can only work as a stand alone build.

    So it is WW that is very limiting.
  • Ace_SiN
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    As a Werewolf player since day 1 (or whenever those first wolves spawned), this Skill Line was the least developed of all others for years. Vampire, on the other hand, was the most op skill line since day 1 (anyone remembers the NB cloak/blood drinking CC spam?), until it was eventually brought down by multiple direct and indirect nerfs. However, Vampire is still good as it stands today. The key difference between Werewolf and Vampire is that the former has always been more of a sub-class than a skill line. All of its skills are great now, but it had to be in order to see any functional play because unlike other ULTs you have to spend 300 and HOPE you can do something with it.

    Vampire has amazing passives that enhances your build instead of being the build. I think this clear distinction is why buffing the Vampire will be hesitant by ZOS, because at one point almost everyone was a vampire and Cyrodiil was plagued by mist form spammers. It would be cool if they added more skills at least, but I don't know if they'll succeed in keeping things balanced as they are now (Vampire is nice, but you shouldn't feel like you need it which is the same as Werewolf).
    King of Beasts

  • peacenote
    peacenote
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    OP, I see where you are coming from but... I would not want to see vampire changed to be more like werewolf.

    After WW was overhauled, I farmed for Blood Moon gear and re-configured one of my alts to be a werewolf, mainly just because it seemed more viable and I always wanted to try it.

    I WANT to love it. I do.

    But my hand actually hurts from spamming light attacks when I play as a WW, I HATE having to constantly eat and monitor my status to stay turned, limited abilities when turned seems clunky, and some kind of hybrid where you switch back and forth is too annoying because it takes too long to charge up the ultimate to switch. Delays (even someone saying BRB) means I lose my form and encourages behavior like running ahead in dungeons before the tank.

    Personally I'd rather see WW work more like vampire where I could look like a WW all the time but maybe daytime exposure (no moon) slowly counts you back down to a non-WW or something. I was so excited when I first learned you could be a vampire or a WW in ESO but while neither totally hit the mark if I had to choose between the two I would choose vampire (personally) as the more "fun" option. I can just BE a vampire and benefit from it and use the skills (or not).

    I think WW still needs a bit of tweaking to feel smooth and fun (at least in PvE, never tried one in PvP) as the countdown and form being tied to an ultimate charge feels too limiting.

    My #1 wish for ESO Today: Decouple achievements from character progress and tracking.
    • Advocate for this HERE.
    • Want the history of this issue? It's HERE.
  • Silver_Strider
    Silver_Strider
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    Werewolf requires you to build your character around it for it to be effective. You get virtually nothing for being a WW as your character doesn't gain any benefits or negative outside of WW form and unless you slot the Ultimate, you don't even get the stat buff from it. Vampire on the other hand is something you can mindless tack on to your character and get all the benefits/negatives that go along with it while having a minimal impact on your overall performance. You don't build yourself around Vampire, you use Vampire to build yourself more effectively which is a huge difference between the 2.

    Technically, you can build yourself around Vampire but those are pretty subpar due to the limited nature of the Vampire skill tree. If it had a few more attack moves, maybe it would be better but that's just how it is currently.
    Edited by Silver_Strider on March 12, 2019 4:45AM
    Argonian forever
  • TheShadowScout
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    peacenote wrote: »
    I think WW still needs a bit of tweaking...
    Personally I would love to see werewolf tweaked, less power in WW form, but WW form duration dependent on lunar phases, on new moon days, transformation is not possible, on waning & waxing moon days or new moon nights, transformation is shorter then now, on full moon days or waning and waxing moon nights, it last much, much longer and on full moon nights... well... you get the "classic" involuntary WW transformation all night long, where you get all the assorted drawbacks that ought to be present in any time when transformed - attacked by all guards, cannot craft, trade or speak to NPCs, and also get an mandatory "hunt worthy prey" quest thet must be completed or your poor little werewolf will suffer a "hasn't fed" debuff for the next in-game month (a RL week IIRC)... but eh.

    Also, transformed werewolves should cause agressive animal mobs to flee instead of attack. Makes no sense for a lowly wolf to try and bite a big, bad werewolf. Wolves have more sense then that... ;)
  • Rake
    Rake
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    Zos just broke ww ulti and that is all
  • Hexys
    Hexys
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    Bring back Invis Bats!!
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  • zyk
    zyk
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    Vampirism is great as it is. I would not want to see it changed. It was really dumb early in the game's life when it seemed 90% of the players were vampires because it was a bit OP.

    WW is just dumb. By design. Apparently ZOS over-buffed WW so _anyone_ can have fun with it just light attacking. This means players that build for it can be OP.

    Unfortunately, I do not believe the primary goal for ZOS is to create a great game. They are more focused on drawing players in with gimmicks and retaining them with addictive systems. This is unfortunate, because they have the talent to make a great game that could draw players in for the right reasons.
  • Numerikuu
    Numerikuu
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    Omg, when "lackluster vampire" is basically required for min-maxing of every PVE build in the game while WW is great only in one form which lacks any kind of ranged attacks and which performs good only in packs.
    IMO ZOS should make complete overhaul of vampire, make his ulti a transform to higher vampire with 5 unique skills and give +15% magicka recovery for slotted ulti. As for now it is free +10% recovery and survival at low hp and speed in sneak for rather minor inconvenience which can be fixed by dropping to lower stages if needed.

    This. Vampire needs a total overhaul. While I 'live' without (more like struggle) the passive regen ability, it's just too good to pass up, no thanks to the Morrowind resource nerfs. Being a vampire shouldn't have to be bloody mandatory for certain builds/races because of said nerfs. It should be an optional gameplay choice.
    Edited by Numerikuu on March 12, 2019 6:27AM
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    peacenote wrote: »
    I think WW still needs a bit of tweaking...
    Personally I would love to see werewolf tweaked, less power in WW form, but WW form duration dependent on lunar phases, on new moon days, transformation is not possible, on waning & waxing moon days or new moon nights, transformation is shorter then now, on full moon days or waning and waxing moon nights, it last much, much longer and on full moon nights... well... you get the "classic" involuntary WW transformation all night long, where you get all the assorted drawbacks that ought to be present in any time when transformed - attacked by all guards, cannot craft, trade or speak to NPCs, and also get an mandatory "hunt worthy prey" quest thet must be completed or your poor little werewolf will suffer a "hasn't fed" debuff for the next in-game month (a RL week IIRC)... but eh.

    Also, transformed werewolves should cause agressive animal mobs to flee instead of attack. Makes no sense for a lowly wolf to try and bite a big, bad werewolf. Wolves have more sense then that... ;)

    That's going to be a no from me.......
  • Asha_11_ESO
    Asha_11_ESO
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    It's a real shame, being a vampire, but never using any active abilities, cause there's just too many other better options for my limited bar space.

    I do wish we could have some kind of vampire transform. (e.g a kind of lusty vampire form with heightened senses, and bloody fangs.) Or a vampire emote, a la adam and eve, from the film only lovers left alive, sipping on blood from their dainty glass goblets, their heads tossed back, and grinning bloodily.)
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
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    Vampire has one of the strongest passives in the game (+10% magicka/stamina regen). Just about everyone and their mother is a vampire because of this passive.

    It would be great if vampire had its own identity like werewolf though and it wasn't something everyone in the game transformed into. Being a vampire should come with a niche but useful set of skills, not something that literally supports every build in the game.
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on March 12, 2019 7:37AM
  • generalmyrick
    generalmyrick
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    It wasnt so long ago that this forum was plagued with "is everybody a vampire! Why..." tears began to form, "werewolf should just die!" full screaming tantrum begins...

    "Vampires should be nerfed or werewolves buffed..." on the floor yelling...slobber out of nose and mouth..."its just not...FAIR!"

    And there you go, how werewolves got buffed.
    "The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:

    Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
    Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"

    Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019

    Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.
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