God tanks and heavy armor........

Kadoin · March 2019

What happens when someone isn't in heavy but can still tank a zerg thanks to rolling, blocking, etc. that anyone can do?

Nerftheforums · March 2019

The l2p issue is real

MirkoZ · March 2019

ezio45 wrote: »

u22.....

can we seriously look at god tanks and heavy armor dps... this is a massive problem and its killing pvp

you have tanks in pvp that take 8+ ppl to kill, that is so broken it shouldnt need a discussion. Seriously, in what other game would needing a small zerg of players to kill one person be considered ok? I can see an argument for 2-3 players needing to focus down a pure pvp tank build but 8+ is ridiculous. Personal suggestion, add resistance to battle spirit, cut it by 50%. Damage, heals, shields are all cut in half by battle spirit i see no reason why resistance shouldnt be. Maybe its overkill, reduced by 25% is maybe enough but hell is theres one thing im ok with seeing you over nerf zos, its heavy armor.

7th legion and ravager are also a problem. They give as much damage as spell strat. Ss is light 7th and ravager are heavy. Ya there not exactly the same, theyre harder to proc. Still tho, when the effect is active they have spell strat dmg in heavy with heavy resistances. They need to be either toned down or made medium

ESO, the game where the tanks deal more dmg than dds.

Yeah , you are right , these days there are a lot of unkillable enemies but they also can deal high amount of dmg.
I mean it's okay being a tank but you can't deal more dmg than dds...

Tommy_The_Gun · March 2019

Why do I get a feeling that because of such complains as this one, PvE tanks will suffer more than PvP tanks ? It happened a gazillion times in the past. PvP dedicated nerfs caused PvE to suffer and in PvP it felt like nothing has changed....

Vapirko · March 2019

You know when “god” is in the title of a PvP thread it’s going to contain a lot of unsubstantiated “evidence” about some “unkilable” tank with “infinite” resources that can also dish out “insane” damage because 7th legion.

BloodStorm · March 2019

ezio45 wrote: »

u22.....

can we seriously look at god tanks and heavy armor dps... this is a massive problem and its killing pvp

you have tanks in pvp that take 8+ ppl to kill, that is so broken it shouldnt need a discussion. Seriously, in what other game would needing a small zerg of players to kill one person be considered ok? I can see an argument for 2-3 players needing to focus down a pure pvp tank build but 8+ is ridiculous. Personal suggestion, add resistance to battle spirit, cut it by 50%. Damage, heals, shields are all cut in half by battle spirit i see no reason why resistance shouldnt be. Maybe its overkill, reduced by 25% is maybe enough but hell is theres one thing im ok with seeing you over nerf zos, its heavy armor.

7th legion and ravager are also a problem. They give as much damage as spell strat. Ss is light 7th and ravager are heavy. Ya there not exactly the same, theyre harder to proc. Still tho, when the effect is active they have spell strat dmg in heavy with heavy resistances. They need to be either toned down or made medium

Lord Harkon of Volkihar ( my sorc vampire tank ) cant kill a player in 1 vs 1 unless they are really undergeared and skilled. Sure we are basically immortal but thats balance. I cant kill you and you cant kill me. Pure health tank /Pure tank should be unkillable 1 vs 1 or 2-3 just like a pure dps can takedown 1-3 players if geared /skilled. People hate they cant kill good tanks but you don't lose anything and its just always a draw. Seems fine to me. Ward though is nice on friends who are close as being a meatshield and redirecting allies damage to us is nice. Good Health tanks are like Npcs or immortal pets. We are strong alone pve/pvp but we shine truly by staying alive to support healers and dps.

AbysmalGhul · March 2019

Don't bring your zerg to fight a steel wall....do like most zergs do, go beat on easy targets.

Savos_Saren · March 2019

Solariken wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

u22.....

can we seriously look at god tanks and heavy armor dps... this is a massive problem and its killing pvp

you have tanks in pvp that take 8+ ppl to kill, that is so broken it shouldnt need a discussion. Seriously, in what other game would needing a small zerg of players to kill one person be considered ok? I can see an argument for 2-3 players needing to focus down a pure pvp tank build but 8+ is ridiculous. Personal suggestion, add resistance to battle spirit, cut it by 50%. Damage, heals, shields are all cut in half by battle spirit i see no reason why resistance shouldnt be. Maybe its overkill, reduced by 25% is maybe enough but hell is theres one thing im ok with seeing you over nerf zos, its heavy armor.

7th legion and ravager are also a problem. They give as much damage as spell strat. Ss is light 7th and ravager are heavy. Ya there not exactly the same, theyre harder to proc. Still tho, when the effect is active they have spell strat dmg in heavy with heavy resistances. They need to be either toned down or made medium

You know where these things aren't a problem? NoCP PvP.

I thought NoCP PvP was rampant with proc sets and poisons...

thedovahmon · March 2019

And this is why I don't do PVP, not because of Tank builds but because of idiots like you that constantly that want to nerf everything to the ground rather than well- creating counters or working around these kind of Builds!? Seriously, if my PVE Main/Tank gets nerfed because of you "Zerglings" or whatever the term is for Pvpers can't think independently, I will personally see to it that Molag Bal's dark anchors completely pull Cyrodill into Coldharbour!

Not wanting to demonize all Pvpers mind you, but seriously, find solutions to your problems that don't involve a nerf!

Raudgrani · March 2019

First off, you generally don't need to kill them, the tanks that is. Ignore them. These are mostly scrubs who wish to show off some kind of "skill", without any plan. Sure, you can use them to go inside enemy keeps and burn camps/siege etc., but luckily enough most tanks don't think that far.

For taking them down, what I've found best is DOT's (especially bleeds), defile, constant CC (especially fear and knocking them back/down) and ultimates such as the 2H one and Corrosive armor. You can also try to get them out of a keep by knocking them off outer walls (or top levels, so that they die from fall damage). It works surprisingly well. You don't need a whole zerg to take them down if you use means such as these.

oxygen_thief · March 2019

thedovahmon wrote: »

Not wanting to demonize all Pvpers mind you, but seriously, find solutions to your problems that don't involve a nerf!

battlespirit is the solution but zos are clueless like you

Olupajmibanan · March 2019

Play in non-CP.

Your complain about unkillable tanks is just an indirect complaint about CPs in PvP. You indirectly imply that CPs cause PvP to be unbalanced, full of unkillable ever-sustaining tanks. While removing CP from PvP entirely would be the best solution, you always have the possibility to play in non-CP.
There is a reason why Battlegrounds are non-CP. These was CP-enabled for a while, but all of us, including ZoS realised that this was not a way to go.

thedovahmon · March 2019

oxygen_thief wrote: »

thedovahmon wrote: »

Not wanting to demonize all Pvpers mind you, but seriously, find solutions to your problems that don't involve a nerf!

battlespirit is the solution but zos are clueless like you

ezio45 · March 2019

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Why do I get a feeling that because of such complains as this one, PvE tanks will suffer more than PvP tanks ? It happened a gazillion times in the past. PvP dedicated nerfs caused PvE to suffer and in PvP it felt like nothing has changed....

i specifically want a pvp, said that in the op

Trinity_Is_My_Name · March 2019

These "Unbelievable" god Tank and Heavy Armour threads have been around for years. Heavy Armour gets nerfed a few times as does Blocking and Sustain and still these threads exist. ZOS has nerfed these over and over for you guys yet you are never happy.

Seems like you guys will never be happy until Blocking is not possible at all in PVP and Heavy Armour is just completely gone.

ezio45 · March 2019

Vapirko wrote: »

You know when “god” is in the title of a PvP thread it’s going to contain a lot of unsubstantiated “evidence” about some “unkilable” tank with “infinite” resources that can also dish out “insane” damage because 7th legion.

No, you misunderstood. the unkillable tanks and 7th legion are 2 different problems.

unkillable tanks problem in pvp is how many players it takes to kill one or especially when they roll in a large group. It doesnt make for very fun gameplay first off. Also when you have a group of 10-12+ of these players there really is no way to deal with it. Eventually your group is going to die because you just cant kill them fast enough.

7th legion and ravager are a separate problem. There not unkillable they just doing to much damage for that a heavy armor set should provide. There should have to be some trade off and there getting both. There some of the highest damage adding sets i can think of and they also give to a decent amount of resistance over medium and light. I forget the exact number but its like 5-8k more

MaleAmazon · March 2019

unkillable tanks problem in pvp is how many players it takes to kill one or especially when they roll in a large group. It doesnt make for very fun gameplay first off. Also when you have a group of 10-12+ of these players there really is no way to deal with it. Eventually your group is going to die because you just cant kill them fast enough.

OK now I am intrigued. I have in the past seen some 'unkillable' players, though usually they didn´t stand and took it but rather relied on shield spam and jumping around on rocks etc.

But show the sets and the numbers. If nothing else, 10-12 players can deal 25000+ unresistable damage every 2-3 seconds from weapon enchantments alone.

This seems like deliberate troll builds that are not better because they are OP, but because they are deliberate, golded out and played by players who know exactly what they are doing.

But hey, show an actual build and I might change my mind

ezio45 · March 2019

BloodStorm wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

u22.....

can we seriously look at god tanks and heavy armor dps... this is a massive problem and its killing pvp

you have tanks in pvp that take 8+ ppl to kill, that is so broken it shouldnt need a discussion. Seriously, in what other game would needing a small zerg of players to kill one person be considered ok? I can see an argument for 2-3 players needing to focus down a pure pvp tank build but 8+ is ridiculous. Personal suggestion, add resistance to battle spirit, cut it by 50%. Damage, heals, shields are all cut in half by battle spirit i see no reason why resistance shouldnt be. Maybe its overkill, reduced by 25% is maybe enough but hell is theres one thing im ok with seeing you over nerf zos, its heavy armor.

7th legion and ravager are also a problem. They give as much damage as spell strat. Ss is light 7th and ravager are heavy. Ya there not exactly the same, theyre harder to proc. Still tho, when the effect is active they have spell strat dmg in heavy with heavy resistances. They need to be either toned down or made medium

Lord Harkon of Volkihar ( my sorc vampire tank ) cant kill a player in 1 vs 1 unless they are really undergeared and skilled. Sure we are basically immortal but thats balance. I cant kill you and you cant kill me. Pure health tank /Pure tank should be unkillable 1 vs 1 or 2-3 just like a pure dps can takedown 1-3 players if geared /skilled. People hate they cant kill good tanks but you don't lose anything and its just always a draw. Seems fine to me. Ward though is nice on friends who are close as being a meatshield and redirecting allies damage to us is nice. Good Health tanks are like Npcs or immortal pets. We are strong alone pve/pvp but we shine truly by staying alive to support healers and dps.

no thats fine, i full believe a tank should be able to tank lik 2-4 players that are spec'd for decent damage and survivability. The issue is the scale is nowhere near that it takes 8-10 players that are spec'd for decent damage and survuvability to kill 1 of those tanks. and when they are running together in a zerg of them its a problem.

ezio45 · March 2019

thedovahmon wrote: »

And this is why I don't do PVP, not because of Tank builds but because of idiots like you that constantly that want to nerf everything to the ground rather than well- creating counters or working around these kind of Builds!? Seriously, if my PVE Main/Tank gets nerfed because of you "Zerglings" or whatever the term is for Pvpers can't think independently, I will personally see to it that Molag Bal's dark anchors completely pull Cyrodill into Coldharbour!

Not wanting to demonize all Pvpers mind you, but seriously, find solutions to your problems that don't involve a nerf!

specifically said pvp and to use battle spirit. I dont want this to effect pve. Pve tanking is fine.

Raudgrani wrote: »

First off, you generally don't need to kill them, the tanks that is. Ignore them. These are mostly scrubs who wish to show off some kind of "skill", without any plan. Sure, you can use them to go inside enemy keeps and burn camps/siege etc., but luckily enough most tanks don't think that far.

For taking them down, what I've found best is DOT's (especially bleeds), defile, constant CC (especially fear and knocking them back/down) and ultimates such as the 2H one and Corrosive armor. You can also try to get them out of a keep by knocking them off outer walls (or top levels, so that they die from fall damage). It works surprisingly well. You don't need a whole zerg to take them down if you use means such as these.

you do need to kill them when they make up half of the zerg your fighting

any ya, all that stuff works well against 1 but when theres a ton of them, not so much.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

brian, your incharge of this *** now. seriously go to ps4 na vivec, fight dc during prime time and tell me that this isnt an issue. Its a huge issue and its killing pvp.

ezio45 · March 2019

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

These "Unbelievable" god Tank and Heavy Armour threads have been around for years. Heavy Armour gets nerfed a few times as does Blocking and Sustain and still these threads exist. ZOS has nerfed these over and over for you guys yet you are never happy.

Seems like you guys will never be happy until Blocking is not possible at all in PVP and Heavy Armour is just completely gone.

no dude, seriously im fine with it taking 2-4 decent players to focus down a tank, im fine with blocking, and heavy arnor offering a decent amount of survivability at a trade off for dps.

but it takes alot more than 2-4 decent players to kill a decent tank, decent takes run together in zergs

and some heavy set give you more damage then medium passives and give you resistance.

Shardaxx · March 2019

Some people saying they have no dps... well their dps isn't great but they can get a decent burst using Fury they can get pounded on for a bit and then rip out some damage with a dragon leap and some 2-H swings, then its back to blocking, healing and running around a tree while it all recharges.

Tanks ruling cyro is getting pretty boring.

I always look at it like this - if you had 2 characters, one is pure pvp tank, the other is pure pvp dps, who would win? The tank would, because 1 dps will never bother him and he can still put out enough damage to kill someone who is all dps and no defence. It's completely unbalanced in favour of tankiness. A lot of players have realised this, which is why you see ball zergs of tanky players steam rolling their way round cyro.

Rex-Umbra · March 2019

Stupid suggestion..... battle spirit halves damage... your solution is to half resistances as well? Why not just remove battle spirit there was no ha tanks in pvp prior to battle spirit.

Pevey · March 2019

All PvP should be no-CP. Easier to balance, fewer spillover nerfs to PVE. It would also mean new players only have to hit level 50 to do PvP in sky campaign without being at a disadvantage.

Rikumaru · March 2019

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Chirru wrote: »

And another PvP'er crying.

My thought...Nerf all PvP'ers.

Why?

because PvP'ers mess up the game for PvE player
with their constant crying ...nerf this and nerf that!

If you want Player against Player Combat then
take what comes along with it.

I really feel sorry for you OP. You are simply outclassed.
Maybe you should play PvE? It is so much more...relaxing...

first off, i didnt say to nerf heavy in pve. I specifically said for pvp and to do it with battle spirit. Has 0 effect on pve.

secondly, this game was originally marketed as a pvp game. my bad if there are some of us still around

It was not originally marketed "as a pvp game." It was marketed as a game where one of the end game activities is PvP, alongside other PvE activities. I've seen people claim that PvP was originally marketed as THE end game and then link to a video that clearly did not say that, but rather listed PvP as one of multiple end game activities.

Yes, PvP is an important part of the game they released. But it was never meant to be something everyone played and this was never "a PvP game." It was always a game that has PvP as one of the game modes. And clearly they felt Cyrodiil was fun and wanted everyone to try it out as they try to send you there when you hit level 10.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. PvP was the only end game activity at launch. There was NO OTHER end game at launch. The PvE endgame stuff came with Craglorn. As for game not being a PvP game, PvP was originally designed to be equally as important as the PvE.

How many reviewers did you see praising the PvE at launch? None. It was PvP that almost everyone cared about, it was this games saving grace at launch. Do you know why that's changed? Because ZOS decided to give up on it when A: 0 ulti cost sorcs were rolling around for roughly a month 1v300ing. B: Shortly after this a patch was introduced which killed Cyrodill performance. C: The constant lag players experience in Cyrodill particularly at prime-time.

As for OP having a problem with tanks, sure heavy armor is overperforming atm, but if you can't kill one player with 8, I think the problem lies with you and not heavy armor. I personally would prefer to see medium armor sets buffed, shuffle buffed and for bleeds / oblivion damage to be nerfed. Then we might see medium being on par with heavy. But wanting to nerf heavy because of some solo players? As if solo players didn't have enough problems already.

ezio45 · March 2019

Shardaxx wrote: »

Some people saying they have no dps... well their dps isn't great but they can get a decent burst using Fury they can get pounded on for a bit and then rip out some damage with a dragon leap and some 2-H swings, then its back to blocking, healing and running around a tree while it all recharges.

Tanks ruling cyro is getting pretty boring.

I always look at it like this - if you had 2 characters, one is pure pvp tank, the other is pure pvp dps, who would win? The tank would, because 1 dps will never bother him and he can still put out enough damage to kill someone who is all dps and no defence. It's completely unbalanced in favour of tankiness. A lot of players have realised this, which is why you see ball zergs of tanky players steam rolling their way round cyro.

^^^^

ezio45 · March 2019

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Stupid suggestion..... battle spirit halves damage... your solution is to half resistances as well? Why not just remove battle spirit there was no ha tanks in pvp prior to battle spirit.

to my knowledge they put in battle spirit to make all numbers smaller and more manageable

buy do either, i dont really care

Sy1ph5 · March 2019

ezio45 wrote: »

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

These "Unbelievable" god Tank and Heavy Armour threads have been around for years. Heavy Armour gets nerfed a few times as does Blocking and Sustain and still these threads exist. ZOS has nerfed these over and over for you guys yet you are never happy.

Seems like you guys will never be happy until Blocking is not possible at all in PVP and Heavy Armour is just completely gone.

no dude, seriously im fine with it taking 2-4 decent players to focus down a tank, im fine with blocking, and heavy arnor offering a decent amount of survivability at a trade off for dps.

but it takes alot more than 2-4 decent players to kill a decent tank, decent takes run together in zergs

and some heavy set give you more damage then medium passives and give you resistance.

And here it is the l2p issue. You got 1vX'd by a full tank build and came here to complain.

You actually have no idea why players are building tanky it's not because the stats are so much better. It's because there is so much free damage flying around and the server performance is poor. If I have to sit in a stun because of lag on a squishier build it's over. On a tankier build there's a chance to survive the servers performance problems.

It does only take 2-4 players to kill a tank. You are just clearly not as good as you think you. That's okay. Take some time to l2p and you'll see how ridiculous you sound.

Ps. If you actually wanted to complain about tanks you would not have talked about resistances. You should have brought up meditate being uninteruptable while you have cc immunity.

ezio45 · March 2019

Sy1ph5 wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

These "Unbelievable" god Tank and Heavy Armour threads have been around for years. Heavy Armour gets nerfed a few times as does Blocking and Sustain and still these threads exist. ZOS has nerfed these over and over for you guys yet you are never happy.

Seems like you guys will never be happy until Blocking is not possible at all in PVP and Heavy Armour is just completely gone.

no dude, seriously im fine with it taking 2-4 decent players to focus down a tank, im fine with blocking, and heavy arnor offering a decent amount of survivability at a trade off for dps.

but it takes alot more than 2-4 decent players to kill a decent tank, decent takes run together in zergs

and some heavy set give you more damage then medium passives and give you resistance.

And here it is the l2p issue. You got 1vX'd by a full tank build and came here to complain.

You actually have no idea why players are building tanky it's not because the stats are so much better. It's because there is so much free damage flying around and the server performance is poor. If I have to sit in a stun because of lag on a squishier build it's over. On a tankier build there's a chance to survive the servers performance problems.

It does only take 2-4 players to kill a tank. You are just clearly not as good as you think you. That's okay. Take some time to l2p and you'll see how ridiculous you sound.

Ps. If you actually wanted to complain about tanks you would not have talked about resistances. You should have brought up meditate being uninteruptable while you have cc immunity.

no, i didnt get 1vx'd by a full tank build.

2 i am exactly as good as i think i am. Im not the best, im also not trash.

3, meditate isnt the issue, its resistances.

4, i know exactly what im talking about. I have a pvp tank. Just got a video and will be posting it shortly

Burtan · March 2019

It is entirely possible to kill 8 players in medium or light armour, not just heavy. Players taking on 8 others alone are just more experienced and/or play better than their opponents.

This is entirely a L2P issue and has nothing to do with poor balance or heavy armour.

ezio45 · March 2019

Here, this is me tanking 3 and 4 players on my pvp sorc tank

A couple things to keep in mind:

Im not a top tier player, i made alot of mistakes. Left defensive posture down the whole time, dropped block, literally stood in siege.
Im not a good race for a tank, im an orc
im not on a dk, templar or warden which is better at tanking
This is a build to be ran in a group and sacrifices somethings for utility
my gear is purple, not bis for this kind of thing and has a few bad traits
Im not in a group, i dont have a healer or another tank with guard on me
no psijic line with the shield

^ with all of that stuff, you bet even a trash player like me can tank a small zerg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKoX2P7afwA