Beffagorn wrote: »

2019 and there's so many that still think Heavy Armor is the cause instead of the symptom.

Skills like Snipe are the reason that there's so much heavy armor around. No one likes getting oneshotted without being able to counter it because you get hit 3 times by Snipe in the same second.

Heavy Armor is the ONLY solution we have to all the insane burst around. Is it the perfect solution? No, not even close but it's the best we've got until ZoS fixes it.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Snipe needs to stay as is until they 1) fix lag performance 2) adjust the horrible changes to the game and class abilities brought on by the CP system and the heavy armor meta (including too high of resists across the board now, heavy armor having no drawbacks for stam players, bleeds/oblivion damage etc) 3) adjust cloak/dodge miss rates.

I hate it. Everyone hates it. Snipers provide a necessary function in pvp right now however. They kill high resist HA toons and bow provides enough cc and pressure to counter cheese bleed/oblivion damage and proc set builds. Until they undo these idiotic changes to the game, problems created by the developers themselves (probably due to some mandate from a finance or operations executive) these items are necessary for balance in my view.

so bugs and hard counters can remain in the game because of heavy armor. wut ?????

That’s what you took from my post?:)

What's the connection with a health desync bug and class / armor balance ?

I also disagree that a ranged dawnbreaker with a defile is an answer to some tanky proc set setup. All that does it add fuel to the fire

The apparent extent of that health Desync may be linked to server and lag performance issues. Snipe with major defile is a great counter to unkillable HA meta toons. Until they nerf HA to be a support set for the two dps sets, it makes no sense to nerf one of the counters to it. Unfortunately the rest of us have to suffer in the interim. We are on same page, I just worry if they make any changes to snipe it will have the effect of empowering HA toons moreso.

It doesn't counter heavy at all. If anything, it encourages more people to wear heavy so they can survive long enough to realize they are getting hit. Its way more harmful to the other armors.

This is a circular, chicken or the egg non sequitur(a twofer for the price of an eso post). Your premise assumes that people starting wearing heavy armor to counter snipe when in reality, snipe was always there and people started wearing heavy armor for the lack of a downside with the weapon damage additions and healing advantage and it became a self fulfilling prophecy. This fact notwithstanding, the proverbial toothpaste is out of the tube and the only way to remedy the situation is to enhance server performance. Once that is done, assess whether it overperforms or not. That is the only sequential path that makes sense as the health desync may not be a bug but a function of performance related issues.

It's not circular at all because people are not using snipe to counter heavy. It really doesn't counter heavy. Penetration, more damage, and sustain counters heavy as even with heavy sets, you can still run them and maintain 5 of the other armor. You can double stack heavy sets but you wont have penetration.

People use snipe to counter people reacting and fighting back because people who use snipe are bad. So bad in fact; that just ganking out of cloak without it is not enough. Even with snipe, most of them need their target focused on something else.

So it's really pure BS and snipe only fills a role of countering being a bad player.

I can see you have been triggered but perhaps you should reconsider that perhaps SNIPE is actually a bad skill if players need you to be engaged to kill you while using it?

Before the most recent spate of glitches virtually no regular average-joe(not even talking good here) pvper was afraid or frustrated by snipe, Snipe was a meme. That doesn't make Snipe good, that makes glitches/exploits frustrating.

Snipe cost to damage ratio is amazing, but it hasn't always been very good at killing players. Sure it's been decently effective versus your brand new PVP players, but it has been actually quite bad versus any competent player for some time. Currently players have found ways to make the most of the high damage with low cost and great range due mostly to glitches and lag.

If you look around, players that have been trying to play archer archetypes have been asking for a rework of snipe for quite some time. Claiming that anyone using a specific skill is a bad player only makes you sound overly emotionally invested and biased. It may be easier to imagine because of how many players people find that are bad that also use snipe, but the same statement can be said about any skill and is equally incorrect.

However this sort of rhetoric only makes those players more zealous to kill you with snipe, it does not improve community interactions, it does not educate players it only degrades.

technohic wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Snipe needs to stay as is until they 1) fix lag performance 2) adjust the horrible changes to the game and class abilities brought on by the CP system and the heavy armor meta (including too high of resists across the board now, heavy armor having no drawbacks for stam players, bleeds/oblivion damage etc) 3) adjust cloak/dodge miss rates.

I hate it. Everyone hates it. Snipers provide a necessary function in pvp right now however. They kill high resist HA toons and bow provides enough cc and pressure to counter cheese bleed/oblivion damage and proc set builds. Until they undo these idiotic changes to the game, problems created by the developers themselves (probably due to some mandate from a finance or operations executive) these items are necessary for balance in my view.

so bugs and hard counters can remain in the game because of heavy armor. wut ?????

That’s what you took from my post?:)

What's the connection with a health desync bug and class / armor balance ?

I also disagree that a ranged dawnbreaker with a defile is an answer to some tanky proc set setup. All that does it add fuel to the fire

The apparent extent of that health Desync may be linked to server and lag performance issues. Snipe with major defile is a great counter to unkillable HA meta toons. Until they nerf HA to be a support set for the two dps sets, it makes no sense to nerf one of the counters to it. Unfortunately the rest of us have to suffer in the interim. We are on same page, I just worry if they make any changes to snipe it will have the effect of empowering HA toons moreso.

It doesn't counter heavy at all. If anything, it encourages more people to wear heavy so they can survive long enough to realize they are getting hit. Its way more harmful to the other armors.

This is a circular, chicken or the egg non sequitur(a twofer for the price of an eso post). Your premise assumes that people starting wearing heavy armor to counter snipe when in reality, snipe was always there and people started wearing heavy armor for the lack of a downside with the weapon damage additions and healing advantage and it became a self fulfilling prophecy. This fact notwithstanding, the proverbial toothpaste is out of the tube and the only way to remedy the situation is to enhance server performance. Once that is done, assess whether it overperforms or not. That is the only sequential path that makes sense as the health desync may not be a bug but a function of performance related issues.

It's not circular at all because people are not using snipe to counter heavy. It really doesn't counter heavy. Penetration, more damage, and sustain counters heavy as even with heavy sets, you can still run them and maintain 5 of the other armor. You can double stack heavy sets but you wont have penetration.

People use snipe to counter people reacting and fighting back because people who use snipe are bad. So bad in fact; that just ganking out of cloak without it is not enough. Even with snipe, most of them need their target focused on something else.

So it's really pure BS and snipe only fills a role of countering being a bad player.

I can see you have been triggered but perhaps you should reconsider that perhaps SNIPE is actually a bad skill if players need you to be engaged to kill you while using it?

Before the most recent spate of glitches virtually no regular average-joe(not even talking good here) pvper was afraid or frustrated by snipe, Snipe was a meme. That doesn't make Snipe good, that makes glitches/exploits frustrating.

Snipe cost to damage ratio is amazing, but it hasn't always been very good at killing players. Sure it's been decently effective versus your brand new PVP players, but it has been actually quite bad versus any competent player for some time. Currently players have found ways to make the most of the high damage with low cost and great range due mostly to glitches and lag.

If you look around, players that have been trying to play archer archetypes have been asking for a rework of snipe for quite some time. Claiming that anyone using a specific skill is a bad player only makes you sound overly emotionally invested and biased. It may be easier to imagine because of how many players people find that are bad that also use snipe, but the same statement can be said about any skill and is equally incorrect.

However this sort of rhetoric only makes those players more zealous to kill you with snipe, it does not improve community interactions, it does not educate players it only degrades.

It's true though. People who try to use snipe abusing health syncs and stealthing out if anyone looks in their direction is bad and they know it. If it strikes a nerve with them; its because they know it.

Beffagorn wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

The Heavy Armor weapon damage sets are the problem and have been for quite some time. There is no drawback to wearing it in PVP. The problem is it works fine in pve from what I have been told. No one wore it before. You will recall everyone running around in light armor. They should have never given Heavy armor wearers the ability to burst like medium and light wearers. That is the root problem that caused a chain reaction of horrible balance changes. Well, that and the cp system.

Except that most heavy armor users do not wear HA for those sets but to survive Snipe/Stamblades/Stamdens bursts. The only "problem" is Fury, which is slightly overperforming but simply changing max stacks to 20 or adding a 1s ICD between procs is more than enough.

Also you're completely and objectively wrong about not having drawbacks. The drawback to using those sets (Fury/7th/Ravager) is the complete lack of sustain. When do those sets actually become a real problem? Oh right, when the one wearing them is a Stamden with their 12% recovery passive+Netch+Bird of Prey. Those sets are perfectly balanced on everyone else.

Seems to me that Stamdens are the problem and not the sets themselves.

Beardimus wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Lol. There's no comparison at all, when the desync happens its like a one shot but x 5. Ur on your mount, Ur dead, looking at recap or the multiple hits then you hear the sound.

Bad player, good player, elite player doesn't matter.

It's BS to try to downplay how broken this skill is and blame the targets lol. It's not OP its just broke, like Cage was. They didn't fix cage tho, they gave it a 5 x Nerf.

And if bust snipe is your crutch, time to get gud when its fixed.

I've been playing PvP and BGs non stop for a very long time. I see what goes on and If you cry about snipe you might as well cry about every single skill out there. I've been in situations where I thought, "omg, what freaking hit me" when nobody was around and I couldn't respond. I see things like dawn breaker x 3 , snipe or some other skill but I'm assuming it was lag that was the issue.

I am thinking 80 percent of the players that play PvP or BG are really not that good, and for you to say snipe one shot someone is kind of fluffy. Remember I play all the time and the only time it may have came close to 1 shotting me is when I was wearing all divine with no pen. If i hear 1 snipe and it hits me for x 5 then there is a good chance I am in a laggy situation. However, I will say if that happened it is not every single time or very often at all.

I get it, you snipe babies are more than likely close range fighters who don't have a problem 3v1 someone in BG and get mad if a ranged fighter is giving you a hard time. But to be honest with you, even if they didn't have snipe those guys who give you a hard time are still going to give you are hard time. There is a good chance they are better than you.

I personally don't have any issues with snipe. I'm not a very strong fighter but a smart one. If I see or hear a sniper I am going to try and focus on him to protect me and my team. I put things on my bar to help stop the cloakers and I don't come hear and cry about .."oh i had to put a skill on my bar just for this or that".

I just don't see the problem. I really think this is a learn to play/experience issue. As far as snipe hitting too hard, zeni would know. i"m sure they have some numbers stored somewhere about how much damage it is doing.

If you step back and look at all these nerf threads, you have to wonder.. is everything really op/broken or is someone just tush hurt.

You argue against yourself the whole way through this, You don't make sense. I'm not moaning about the skill being strong, i - like most - are saying its bugged. And ZOS finally have agreed and are looking at it. So your point is nonsense, argue away but its bugged and they on the case lol.

Getting aggressive / insulting / putting down others abilities / fluffing your own ego isn't making you more right. It's bugged, they know, we are right, move on.

Sure it might need a Nerf, but we won't know till its fixed. Same issue rune cage had except cage got nerfed instead of fixed.

You talk about hearing a sniper and that's the issue, when the issue is bad you don't get that chance. You are dead. Sure lag happens like once in a blue moon but snipe happens frequently.

And your case for snipers being better players is utterly hilarious, they generally lose every match they are in, they are just annoying.

I'm not saying they OP, I'm saying its broke, and needs fixing and ZOS have acknowledged. Man alive......case closed.

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Beffagorn wrote: »

2019 and there's so many that still think Heavy Armor is the cause instead of the symptom.

Skills like Snipe are the reason that there's so much heavy armor around. No one likes getting oneshotted without being able to counter it because you get hit 3 times by Snipe in the same second.

Heavy Armor is the ONLY solution we have to all the insane burst around. Is it the perfect solution? No, not even close but it's the best we've got until ZoS fixes it.

The Heavy Armor weapon damage sets are the problem and have been for quite some time. There is no drawback to wearing it in PVP. The problem is it works fine in pve from what I have been told. No one wore it before. You will recall everyone running around in light armor. They should have never given Heavy armor wearers the ability to burst like medium and light wearers. That is the root problem that caused a chain reaction of horrible balance changes. Well, that and the cp system.

Then what would the point of heavy armor be in pvp?